Changing Springs on the new SP101 .22.r?


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WNC Seabee
September 26, 2011, 10:06 AM
Perhaps my google skills are weak, but I can't find a thread on this so I'll start one.

I picked up one of the new SP101s in .22lr the other day and love everything about it except the near 12# DA and similarly stout SA trigger. When tearing it down, I notice the hammer spring is purple. I suppose this is to indicate that it's the .22 factory spring and therefore different than the factory spring in a .357 model

Has anyone tried a Wolff spring yet? Results?
Do we know the weight of the factory purple spring?

Thanks!

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BCRider
September 26, 2011, 11:53 AM
The gun is BRAND NEW! Give the folks time to check out the springs and come up with a tuning kit and the forums time to produce the FAQ threads. In fact this could well end up being the thread that everyone refers to for their own SP101-22's.

In the meantime and assuming that it's the same guts as the .38/357 SP101 I'd suggest you get the kit for that gun. Just clean and lightly oil the gun with a thin gun oil so that the hammer is very free moving with no burrs to drag at it. If you can achieve that then a lighter .38 spring SHOULD still be able to set off the rimfire primers.

Other than that you'll just need to shoot it a lot to get the internal parts to burnish their contact faces against each other. It's either that or a total strip down and polish all the contact points using super fine arkansas or ceramic files and jigs to control them. But that's normally considered as gunsmith work.

WNC Seabee
September 26, 2011, 12:10 PM
The gun is BRAND NEW!


that's why I said, "yet" in my question! :p

The internals are almost identical to my 3" SP. The plunger for the trigger group housing is placed a bit differently (and was a real bear to get out!), but otherwise everything appears very much the same.

I suppose my #1 question is "what is the weight of the factory spring" so I have something to go by as a starting point.

Edit: I have no intention of doing any filing...my gunsmithing skills start and stop with springs, grips and sights.

DPris
September 26, 2011, 12:12 PM
You may get erratic ignition on that gun if you switch to a lighter spring.
I discussed it with Ruger & they use that weight for maximum reliability.
Just FYI.
Denis

WNC Seabee
September 26, 2011, 12:20 PM
You may get erratic ignition on that gun if you switch to a lighter spring.
I discussed it with Ruger & they use that weight for maximum reliability.
Just FYI.
Denis

True...but figuring out what you can get away with is part of the fun for me. If it were a defensive role being filled I wouldn't consider changing anything out. But for a fun plinker, small game getter, I'm going to look for the lightest, smoothest trigger I can reasonable get, even if that means 98% reliable instead of 100%.

DPris
September 27, 2011, 02:17 AM
Wasn't saying not to play with it, just advising it's not necessarily a given that swapping springs will be successful. :)
Denis

Drail
September 27, 2011, 06:50 AM
Having experimented with lightened springs in rimfire handguns I can tell you that the primer in a rimfire cartridge takes a pretty good blow to ignite. More than I ever would have thought. You can reduce the mainspring only a little before you start seeing failures. Some brands of ammo will require more or less force to fire.

Bull Nutria
September 27, 2011, 07:44 AM
How do you like the new SP101 22? other than stiff trigger pull?

Bull

19-3Ben
September 27, 2011, 08:33 AM
Having experimented with lightened springs in rimfire handguns I can tell you that the primer in a rimfire cartridge takes a pretty good blow to ignite. More than I ever would have thought. You can reduce the mainspring only a little before you start seeing failures. Some brands of ammo will require more or less force to fire.

Might be interesting to see someone make a heavier hammer for a drip in trigger kit. I wonder if a heavy hammer could compensate for a lighter trigger and give you reliable ignition without a heavy trigger pull.

WNC Seabee
September 27, 2011, 09:16 AM
Since it looks like I may be the first fool to mess with it, I'm going to take a set of Wolff SP101 springs to the range tomorrow and see how it goes. I'll start with 10# and see where that gets me. I think the pack I've got in my kit has a 12, 10 and 9# spring.

WNC Seabee
September 28, 2011, 09:02 PM
I put a 10# Wolff hammer spring in my .22LR SP101 tonight and it dramatically improved the trigger pull. I don't know what the factory spring is rated for but it is certainly more stout than the .357's 14# factory spring. I'm guessing it's in the 16-17# range.

Anyway...I popped in a 10# spring from the Wolff kit. I then pulled the bullets and dumped the powder from 5 cartridges. Each went bang, or POOF! in this case. 3 Rounds smooth steady Double Action and 2 rounds Single Action. Not conclusive for sure, but encouraging.

So, tomorrow I'll head to the range and try out 5-6 different loads and see how it goes! If this spring proves reliable, I am going to be just incredibly happy. The trigger went from "damn, that's rough" to "wow, that's great!"

Yes..I know a lower rate spring may/won't be as reliable as the factory and I shouldn't use it for self defense....blah blah blah...

robctwo
September 28, 2011, 11:11 PM
I saw one at the gun show last weekend. Got to handle it, but no trigger pulling. Seems like a nice size. I have a few S&W .22s including a 4" 18 and 617, so the pull is not strong to buy one of them. Yet.

RugRev
September 29, 2011, 02:27 PM
Interesting. I think Ruger went from casting to MIM on some of the parts in the latest guns and perhaps redesigned some of the internal geometry a bit to enhance the trigger feel. I seem to recall they are using MIM triggers and perhaps hammers and redesigned the firing pin for easier access. Some of this was mentioned sometime back on one of the Ruger Forums.

WNC Seabee
September 29, 2011, 02:29 PM
I went to the range at lunch today and ran 132 rounds through it with the 10# spring. 4 different brands/loads.

2 FTF, 98.5% reliable. That will work well enough for me!

BCRider
October 1, 2011, 02:30 PM
Might be interesting to see someone make a heavier hammer for a drip in trigger kit. I wonder if a heavy hammer could compensate for a lighter trigger and give you reliable ignition without a heavy trigger pull.


My experience has been that it's more important to have a fast strike than to have a heavy but slow strike. Case in point, you can actually crush a rim with pliers without the primer igniting if you're careful (wear heavy leather welders gloves and reach around a blast shield and remove the bullet and powder before trying this at home :D ). Similarly you can actually crush primers without setting them off (been there and done that in home reloading). So it's likely that actually lightening the hammer to go with a lighter main spring could prove to be more reliable by providing a fast and snappy hammer blow.

BCRider
October 1, 2011, 02:39 PM
Seabee, thanks for being the front man/guinea pig/lab rat on this project. I've got the bug for one when they make it up to Canada sometime later this year so reading about this stuff now really helps.

It may be possible to further fine tune the mainspring to cut down on the FTF's even a hair more. A small sleeve of metal or plastic over the spring guide rod to produce a little more preload in the main spring will provide a faster hammer strike. Maybe try just about a 1/8 spacer to give you a couple of more lbs of preload and a faster hammer. Such a small change shouldn't raise the trigger effort all that much.

Another option is that you MAY be able to use a lighter trigger return spring as well. Often a good two lbs or more of the trigger pull comes from the return spring. I don't know what the action is like in the SP101 but in my S&W actions I know that going to a lower effort Wolff mainspring allowed me to use a lower force rebound block spring (functions as the trigger return as well) at the same time. With some tuning of the return spring you may be able to go the bit heavier on the main spring with the tuning spacer and achieve an even lighter overall final DA pull.

rcmodel
October 1, 2011, 02:56 PM
SP-101 Wolff centerfire springs are:
•Factory Standard.: 14 Lb.
•Reduced Power...: 9, 10, 11 and 12 Lb.

I have no idea what the SP-101 .22 RF spring is.

I do know that I took the stock gazillion pound spring out of my S&W 317 .22 RF a few days after I got it in 1998 and replaced it with a Wolff Reduced Power 8 pound centerfire spring.

It has never mis-fired once since I did it.

I'd be ordering an assortment and a reduced power trigger spring and start testing them if I had one, thats for sure.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Revolvers/RUGER/SP-101/cID3/mID52/dID234

rc

WNC Seabee
October 1, 2011, 04:07 PM
SP-101 Wolff centerfire springs are:
•Factory Standard.: 14 Lb.
•Reduced Power...: 9, 10, 11 and 12 Lb.

I have no idea what the SP-101 .22 RF spring is.



I had a Wolff SP101 spring pack on hand when I picked up the SP. The .22 hammer spring is much stronger than the factory 14#, if I had to guess I'd say it's ~16-17#.

I put a few more rounds through it today with the 10# spring.

VERRRRRRRRRRRRRY SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW deliberate double action would cause a FTF ~50% of the time.

Normal DA trigger pull, smooth and steady, not jerking it, was 100% reliable.
SA 100% reliable.

rcmodel
October 1, 2011, 04:11 PM
I'd say the 12# would be Goldie Locks "Just right" then.

rc

BCRider
October 2, 2011, 10:39 PM
Sounds like that to me as well. And with any luck the slight difference could be made up with the use of a lighter trigger return spring as I suggested.

I'm seeing signs on one of the Canadian forums that we may be seeing our own SP101-22's on sale by around Christmas.... Is it too late to start being good now? :D

788Ham
October 3, 2011, 03:10 PM
rc,

Not to steal this guys thread here....... I just got an SP 10 .357, the trigger on this is stiff as a dead goat too. I believe the factory hammer spring is 14# also, if ordered from Wolff, would a 10# or lighter be sufficient for this? Your suggestions please!

WNC Seabee
October 3, 2011, 03:11 PM
rc,

Not to steal this guys thread here....... I just got an SP 10 .357, the trigger on this is stiff as a dead goat too. I believe the factory hammer spring is 14# also, if ordered from Wolff, would a 10# or lighter be sufficient for this? Your suggestions please!
My 3" .357 SP101 responded very well to the 10# hammer spring.

Get the Wolff kit from Brownells or Midway...$10 and you'll get a 9, 10, 12 pound spring plus a lighter trigger return spring. I never bothered with the trigger return.

788Ham
October 3, 2011, 11:59 PM
Thanks Seabee, I appreciate your help and where to get them. Guess I'd best get to ordering...... that goat ain't gonna get any more limber!

BCRider
October 4, 2011, 11:45 AM
Wolff also sells directly. I'm just about to put in a second order with them through their online ordering setup. Although if you also need some other things then going through Midway or Brownells would work out well.

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