30-30 out of a lee enfield?


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Gunnerboy
September 26, 2011, 10:45 PM
I already know that a 30-30 can shoot out of a lee enfield they chamber just fine and fit in the chamber, but i was wondering if anyone has every done this and shot a round out , and yes i know its stupid and not a bright idea but im just curious.

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DPris
September 26, 2011, 11:50 PM
Stupid would be the word, as you noted.
Denis

redbullitt
September 26, 2011, 11:59 PM
no sir. Maybe pull the bullet, dump the powder, resize in proper die, repowder and seat new bullet?

Yeah, I dont think I would .

M1key
September 27, 2011, 12:01 AM
Try rechambering the SMLE in 54 Russian. I understand it works like a champ and is a lot safer...

SC

wlewisiii
September 27, 2011, 12:25 AM
Have a .30-30 barrel put on it, hand load with spitzers & have a damn fine hunting rifle.

nathan
September 27, 2011, 12:28 AM
A good answer will be from a gunsmith, but dont try it.

303tom
September 27, 2011, 12:32 AM
I don`t think I would try it !

El Mariachi
September 27, 2011, 12:33 AM
Is .303 ammo that pricey? Or just hard to find?....

GCBurner
September 27, 2011, 12:38 AM
I already know that a 30-30 can shoot out of a lee enfield they chamber just fine and fit in the chamber, but i was wondering if anyone has every done this and shot a round out , and yes i know its stupid and not a bright idea but im just curious.
Seems he's asked that same dumb question for several different calibres in various Forums, now.
Yesterday he was posting about shooting a .444 Marlin in a .45/.410 Taurus Judge revolver.

nathan
September 27, 2011, 12:39 AM
Ammunitiontogo.com has them in stock . Also Aimsurplus.com

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/303-british-soft-point-ammo

303tom
September 27, 2011, 12:57 AM
Is .303 ammo that pricey? Or just hard to find?....
Not that pricey, I picked a box for deer season 180gr. SP. 16 bucks at Midway a couple of weeks ago & they a bunch on the shelf.

El Mariachi
September 27, 2011, 01:10 AM
Hmmmm, I've been paying $15 x 20 for my 30-30 ('cuz I haven't got into reloading yet) but just $5.95 x 15 for my corrosive Yugo mid 50's 8m Mauser stuff. Which except for the extra cleaning procedures I need to do, is perfectly fine for me....

AK_Maine_iac
September 27, 2011, 04:53 AM
NO NO NO

If you do!

I foresee a post on how to reattach fingers. How to remove metal shards form an eye.

Never load and shoot any caliber other than what a gun is chambered for and what is MARKED ON THE BARREL.

scythefwd
September 27, 2011, 06:12 AM
AK - you ever shoot .32 shorts out of a .327 mag?
How bout .32 longs in a .32 H&R mag?
How bout any of the above in a the .32 H&R, or .32 Long in the .327 mag?
OK OK.. I know, not the same...
My barrel is marked .308 win, can I fire 7.62 nato?
How bout a .380 firing 9mm kurtz ammo? (this is an issue of symantecs)
.38 sp in a .357?
.223 in a 5.56 nato
.30-30 in an .30-30 AI?

Honestly, I could probably fire a .307 win in a .308 win.. .but I don't see the reason to try (both a .308, case dimension are just about identical, and the .307 is a lower pressure round that will chamber and headspace correctly off the .308 chamber but you'd have to have a very generous bolt face to accomdate the rim).

What is marked on the barrel isn't always the definitive list on what a firearm will shoot.

Curator
September 27, 2011, 06:49 AM
While definately NOT a good idea, I have in my teaching kit several .30-30 cases (and some .303 Savage cases) that were fired in a No4 Lee Enfield rifle by an idiot at my gun club. He was lucky that the Lee Enfield has good gas-venting or he would have been injured when some of the cases split length-wise. He only stopped doing it because the bullets hit sideways on his targets. God seems to protect some fools!

WardenWolf
September 27, 2011, 06:49 AM
Case length at shoulder:

.303 British: 1.79"

.30-30 Winchester: 1.44"

Difference: .35"

Case width at shoulder: .401" on both.

What this means:

The shoulder on the .30-30 starts more than 1/4" before the shoulder on the .303's chamber. This means that the .30-30 cartridge would catastrophically fail at the unsupported shoulder if someone were stupid enough to fire it in a .303 British chamber.

Sav .250
September 27, 2011, 08:03 AM
If the " lee enfield" was ment to a 30-30 cal waepon, they would have said so. Remember ,curiosity killed the cat.

WardenWolf
September 27, 2011, 08:21 AM
Japanese Arisaka Type 38: protecting idiots from themselves for over 66 years. It's pretty much the one rifle that's impossible to blow up. It's intended to fire a 6.5mm round. P.O. Ackley couldn't blow it up by firing an overloaded .30-06 out of it, and neither could the dumb hunter who lengthened the chamber to .30-06 (same 6.5mm barrel) and actually hunted with it.

Unfortunately, the Lee Enfield is not a Type 38, and you can't expect it to suffer idiots nearly as well.

303tom
September 27, 2011, 08:38 AM
AK - you ever shoot .32 shorts out of a .327 mag?
How bout .32 longs in a .32 H&R mag?
How bout any of the above in a the .32 H&R, or .32 Long in the .327 mag?
OK OK.. I know, not the same...
My barrel is marked .308 win, can I fire 7.62 nato?
How bout a .380 firing 9mm kurtz ammo? (this is an issue of symantecs)
.38 sp in a .357?
.223 in a 5.56 nato
.30-30 in an .30-30 AI?

Honestly, I could probably fire a .307 win in a .308 win.. .but I don't see the reason to try (both a .308, case dimension are just about identical, and the .307 is a lower pressure round that will chamber and headspace correctly off the .308 chamber but you'd have to have a very generous bolt face to accomdate the rim).

What is marked on the barrel isn't always the definitive list on what a firearm will shoot.
Are you serious ???????????

nathan
September 27, 2011, 08:56 AM
Thats why i told my 4 yr old daughter last Sunday at the pool, dont drink the water. Its treated with chlorine to control bacteria. And if you thnk its okey, you ll get sick to the stomach.

scythefwd
September 27, 2011, 09:18 AM
303 -
I know it isn't the same thing here. I was pointing out the fallacy of "don't shoot it if it isn't stamped on the barrel" comment. My .32 H&R is stamped only .32 H&R... but the .32 longs and shorts are perfectly safe to fire out of it.

The .30-30 out of a enfield.. that'll rupture the case every time. The action is sturdy enough to handle the pressure and the ruptured case (it headspaces off the RIM, not the shoulder... blowing out the shoulder shouldn't send too much gas back at you, unlike something that doesn't space off the rim). I nowhere said it was safe or smart.

Now my .307 vs. .308... check the cartridge drawings... It can be done. From your extractor groove back will be unsupported on the .308 if it can also chamber the .307. You'd have to also remove the extractor to use the rimmed cartridge... I also said I didn't see any reason to try.

El Mariachi
September 27, 2011, 11:19 AM
You guys do whatcha want----I'm just gonna feed mine exactly what it says on the barrels. 'Cuz I got a zillion other toys which to lose my fingers with that are both easier and quieter ...:D

303tom
September 27, 2011, 11:53 AM
:303 -
I know it isn't the same thing here. I was pointing out the fallacy of "don't shoot it if it isn't stamped on the barrel" comment. My .32 H&R is stamped only .32 H&R... but the .32 longs and shorts are perfectly safe to fire out of it.

The .30-30 out of a enfield.. that'll rupture the case every time. The action is sturdy enough to handle the pressure and the ruptured case (it headspaces off the RIM, not the shoulder... blowing out the shoulder shouldn't send too much gas back at you, unlike something that doesn't space off the rim). I nowhere said it was safe or smart.

Now my .307 vs. .308... check the cartridge drawings... It can be done. From your extractor groove back will be unsupported on the .308 if it can also chamber the .307. You'd have to also remove the extractor to use the rimmed cartridge... I also said I didn't see any reason to try.
OK I got you now, you were being sarcastic, I get it !!!!!!:banghead::banghead:

ball3006
September 27, 2011, 01:00 PM
The question is why? The 303 is a good cartridge. 303 ammo it not that expensive....the Enfield design is much stronger than most people think. I witnessed an attempt to blow one up at the gunsmith school in Trinidad. It never did blow but did lock up with a rechamber to 300 win mag and a plugged bore.....chris3

rcmodel
September 27, 2011, 01:36 PM
This means that the .30-30 cartridge would catastrophically fail at the unsupported shoulderActually, the shoulder would fire-form foreword to fill the chamber just fine. And it wouldn't hurt anything if it didn't, as the rest of the case behind the shoulder is where the gas seal occurs.

It's the huge difference in case diameter between the two rounds where you would have to worry about splitting or gas leakage.

Once the case body splits, the case gas seal is broken and the rifle will blow up.

Anyway, firing a 30-30 or .32 Win Special in a 303 British are both listed as unsafe by SAAMI.
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_211-Unsafe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf

rc

Carl N. Brown
September 27, 2011, 02:05 PM
I own both a .303 Brit and a .30-30 and reload for both.
The .30-30 case is way, WAY too small to safely fire in a .303 chamber. There is just no support in the .303 chamber for the .30-30 case.

And I have fired close-but-mix-matched ammo and guns as survival research, and I don't recommend it as a common practice either, but .30-30 in .303 is nowhere close, it is gross miss-matching.

.303 Base diameter 0.460 in (11.7 mm)
.30-30 Base diameter 0.422 in (10.7 mm)
Difference 0.038 in (1 mm).

That is a lot of stretch for brass at ~40,000 psi.

otcconan
September 27, 2011, 02:10 PM
I have a '95 Chilean Mauser rechambered for 30'06 that has taken many deer.

Gunnerboy
September 27, 2011, 05:32 PM
Seems like i stirred a hornets nest here. 1. I never said that i was going to shoot one out of an enfield, i was wondering if any of you knew any idiots that have. 2. Thank you Curator for actually understanding the question and replying with what i was wondering and 3. gcburner i have never asked about a 444 out of a judge and dont remember ever asking about any other interchanging wrong calibers so PISS OFF.

bigedp51
September 27, 2011, 08:15 PM
Below is a .303 British loaded with a reloaded .303 cartridge that is going to have a case head separation when fired. The action has been wrapped with tablet paper to show the results of this case separation and the gas venting system on the Enfield rifle.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/303sep3-1.jpg

The results after firing, the cartridge case suffered a complete separation and the gas venting system worked as was designed. Please note the paper only has scorch marks and the paper was not shredded or blown apart from the escaping gas.

The gas vent relief hole and the extractor cut are where the venting gases were designed to vent and are 180 degrees apart.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/303sep2-1.jpg

Below is a drill purpose rifle that "HAD" (past tense) been deactivated and had two half inch holes drilled in the chamber and the firing pin welded to the bolt head, it was sold by Century Arms as a "non-firing wall hanger".

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/DSCF0234.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/DSCF0236.jpg


http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/L59A1_unidentified_bolt.gif


The buyer had a gunsmith restore the bolt to firing condition and took this Enfield to a friends gun shop to sell for him. The young man who bought the rifle blew his thumb off the first time he fired this rifle.

45,000 cup or 49,000 psi vented directly out of the half inch hole drilled in the side of the chamber, the "small" hole to the rear is the gas vent hole and is flush with the bolt face.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/DPvent.jpg

If you fire a 30-30 cartridge in a British .303 the cartridge case will not seal in the chamber when it is fired due to the almost .040 difference in base diameter of the cartridge. When the trigger is pulled on this 30-30 cartridge 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi will escape at high velocity from the chamber and severely maim or kill the shooter who is stupid enough to pull the trigger.

Any other dumb stupid questions?

bigedp51
September 27, 2011, 08:35 PM
Then there was the person who bought cheap Pakistani surplus (click...................bang) .303 ammunition, and was firing it during a mad minute exercise. The Enfield rifle went "click" and after he started to open the bolt the cartridge went "bang".

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspace.jpg

The lucky shooter was unharmed other than a few scratches and a pair of soiled underwear, the Enfield rifle was dead on arrival and was given a proper military funeral. The fore stock was shattered at the magazine opening and the magazine driven into the ground, receiver was warped and distorted but luckily the majority of escaping gasses vented straight downward into the magazine.

Sam Cade
September 27, 2011, 08:40 PM
*shudder*

Where did the bolt end up?

El Mariachi
September 27, 2011, 08:50 PM
It probably hasn't landed yet.....

bigedp51
September 28, 2011, 12:05 AM
How much pressure can build up inside a brass cartridge case before it ruptures, note his right hand was holding and pulling the bolt to the rear when the case let loose. The pressure actually built up inside the magazine and then launched it downward. Look at the photo closely, the case actually gripped the chamber walls in front of the case rupture, the bullet lodged in the barrel and the front of the case was sucked inward and collapsed from the escaping gas. The fast burning cordite powder was not contained very long inside the cartridge case and everything blew downward and not upward into his face.

Note the bolt was not blown backwards, and the shooter was still pulling the bolt to the rear when the case ruptured. The shooter was laying prone and was hit by flying dirt, grass and splintered wood from the stock on the left arm. His shooting jacket protected his left arm and luckily he only ate a little dirt and grass. He soiled his underwear when he look down and saw the smoking magazine in the ground and remaining "smoking" cordite cartridges.

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