[twoblink]

I'm just curious, and I'll probably blame like Disney for it..

But what is it with the misconception that bears are big, soft, cuddly, and slow? We are watching the Discovery channel, and my cousins are like, wow, look at that cute bear.. (Alaskan brown)

and we get into a discussion about seeing one live, and how territorial they are etc.. and my cousin's go "It's ok, if they charge, you can just run.." ??? Don't they have landspeeds of 35 mph?

"Oh, that's ok, I can just climb a tree..." errr... I have yet to see a human outclimb a bear..

"Well, pull out a gun and and shoot it." err... If you are talking 9mm, what are you trying to do... piss it off even more??

I don't know how big the Alaskan brown bears and black bears get, but they seem to be pushing 800-1000lbs to me.. Even if it died, and just laid on top of me, I don't see how I'd be crawling out..

Who's to blame for all the bear misconceptions?? Is it possible to stop it at the source?? Is it disney and their fuzzy wuzzy bear cartoons?

I recall seeing a bobcat around the cliffs of Big Sur while at a gas station; and someone commented how cute they were.. and thought if they got into a fight, he'd lick that cat 'cause the cat was only 60 lbs while he was pushing close to 200lbs.. I'd bet money on the cat if it was a hand to hand fight... no contest..

The amount of animal ignorance amazes me... Where's the source??

[H&Hhunter]

Disney, Animal Planet, popular press so on and so forth. I'm sure there are a few people who posted on the lion hunting video who can explain it to us as they've been fully indoctrinated to the animal rights cause.

I also believe that urbanization of the population has alot to do with it. People for the most part don't get out they sit at home and watch TV.

[mete]

Disney etc and of course every child has started out life with a teddy bear.BTW the three biggest black bears taken in PA last fall were over 800 lbs ! I've met bears face to face without any problem. Of course I know about bears and certainly don't feed, hug or pet them. But there are people who are really insane like the women who sat here child next to a grizzly cub for a good photo in one of the national parks. There was no problem but the potential was scarey !

[wardmclark]

You should read the last chapter in my book, Misplaced Compassion. (http://www.frombearcreek.com/mc_info.htm) It addresses this very point.

To put it simply, I don't think it's just the media; it's also the urbanization of society. People just don't live around wildlife any more.

Here in Colorado, it's gotten stylish to build 'country homes' out in the foothills. City yuppies build big homes in the hills to 'be close to nature.' They whine about people hunting - "how can you go out and kill animals?" they cry, while they munch on a roast beef sandwich.

Then, nature pays them a call, in the form of a bear ripping off a screen door to raid their kitchen, or maybe a mountain lion drops in and has Fido or Fluffy for a light snack. Then they're on the phone to the Division of Wildlife, shrieking, "Kill it! Kill it!"

OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration. But only a bit.

[Nathanael_Greene]

They're just as misinformed about deer.

"What, you're going to shoot some poor helpless deer? Does that make you feel like a man, going out and killing Bambi?"

But let one of them hit a deer with their car late one night, and it's a different story.

[Smoke]

Agree that it is most wildlife people are out of touch with, not just bears.

People get comoftable seeing them on TV, in the zoo (they don't look mean) in a circus, or Las Vegas act (we know how that turned out) or other setting. Add to that years of cartoons, Disney, Looney Toons, movies, TV shows..remember "Gentle Ben".

Most people do not have exposure to wildlife "in the wild". There are domestic cows I wouldn't approach in the pasture when they have a calf on the ground....I sure as hell ain't gonna try to pet momma bears baby.

Some people have to learn the hard way 'cause they just don't know no better.

Smoke

[c_yeager]

You know bears ARE soft, cute and cuddly. It just happens that they would just as soon rip you apart as smell you. But, dont make them out to be monsters just because they are higher on the food chain than we are in their element. Its not their fault people are too stupid to avoid them. Bears simply DONT go looking for people. They are quite content to to spend their entire lives without having to deal with stupid hairless apes that smell funny.

[Nathanael_Greene]

"They are quite content to to spend their entire lives without having to deal with stupid hairless apes that smell funny."

In a great many cases, I agree with the bears! (Present company excepted.)

[HankB]

there are people who are really insane like the women who sat here child next to a grizzly cub for a good photo When my buddy's sister and fiancee visited Yellowstone, they saw black bears being hand fed by people in cars who were passing out marshmellows through partially open windows.

But that's not the story - they also saw a guy trying to seat a screaming toddler on a black bear while momma took a picture! :what:

Luckily, the bear ran off without hurting anyone. Mom and dad scolded the kid for scaring the bear away with his screams. :rolleyes:

[Highland Ranger]

Funny story - local gun store here in black bear country.

Customer looking for his first handgun, for home defense, specifically bear defense.

We've got a problem in North Jersey with bears breaking into houses etc.

Guy doesn't want the 44mag the counter man is recommending instead asks what is recommended in 357. Counter guy shows him one with a short barrel.

So I step in and say gee, don't you want a longer barrel (longer sight radius, better chance of hitting the bear) . . . . he says well yes, but with the shorter barrel, after he empties the gun into the bear, it won't hurt as much when the bear sticks it up his @#$.

(In other words, buy the 44mag!)

(got a big kick out of it at the time)

[wardmclark]

A few years ago, the wife and I saw a woman kicked out of Rocky Mountain National Park.

She was videotaping a herd of elk. Park elk, that aren't afraid of people. In September. During the rut.

Moron was walking towards the herd bull across an open field, with her video camera buzzing away, holding out a peice of bread in her free hand. The bull was shaking its rack at her and pawing at the ground while the cows milled around behind him.

Several people were yelling at her not to do that. She just shook her head and kept walking. Finally a park officer pulled into the parking lot and yelled at her, "Ma'am, you will come back to the lot right now!

Stupid b***h proceeds to get in a shouting match with the park officer across the field.

Needless to say, she was escorted to the Estes Park gate and told not to come back.

Same park, different view point, I once got in a minor argument with some clown with New York plates (not to disparage New Yorkers in general, but that happened to be where this idiot was from) that was pointing out a bunch of cow elk and telling his 7-8 year old son, "Those are moose." I explained that those were elk; that moose were larger, darker, and had big, overhanging noses. He told the kid to ignore me: "I've seen them in magazines, and those are moose."

What's really sad is that this absolute, freaking moron is breeding.

[twoblink]

I try really hard to educate, but it's an uphill battle...

It's the "year of the monkey" in chinese new years calendar and so everybody is up in the mountains trying to handfeed wild monkeys..

That's despite the sign that says "Don't hand feed wild monkeys, they are mean and will rip your hand a new one and give you infections that will probably kill ya."

Of course, a lot of mothers take that as give the child ome food and have them feed the monkey while she takes a pic :rolleyes:

Of all the underrated animals though, I still find the bear the most underrated by urbanites.. Or am I just blessed with more outdoor activity and know the difference between a teddy bear and a real one?

[Preacherman]

We have 'em in Africa too... Back in the 1980's, there was a German photographer who was incensed that his game ranger guide (on a package tour) would not, under any circumstances, let him film lions from outside a vehicle. So he waited in camp one afternoon until the tour bus had left, then "borrowed" a pickup (without permission) and went out to find some lions to film.

He didn't come back that night. Next morning, the staff at the camp went looking, and in due course found the pickup parked alongside the road, a few miles away, but with no sign of the photographer except for his 8mm. movie camera clamped to the partly-open driver's door window. They searched for days, but never did find him. So, in due course, they packed up his belongings (including the camera) and shipped them back to his wife in Germany.

She had the film in the camera developed, and proceeded to have shrieking hysterics when she viewed it. It showed her (late) husband backing away from the camera, waving into the lens, and walking up to four lions lying in the grass about 50 yards away. He then bent down and patted one lioness on the head... upon which all four simultaneously realised that it was lunchtime, and shredded him entire. They ate the lot - flesh, bones, clothing, even his boots.

Heck of a way to find out you're a widow... :uhoh:

[nico]

I think a lot of the problem of people underestimating dangerous animals has to do with the personification that we often see of them. People see things that resemble love and figure if an animal can love its offspring, it must also have compassion (as well as other human emotions) and be able to understand when a person isn't trying to harm them.
I don't think the idea of thinking of a given animal as "cute" is inherently bad. IMO, most young (infant) animals are cute. But there's a HUGE difference between seeing a young animal as cute and thinking that the outward appearance means adult animals of the same species (or even young animals) are safe to approach. The same goes for most nature shows. I'm watching a show right now on Animal Planet where these two guys just got within 20 feet of two female lions feeding on a wildebeast carcass with a male lion and two other females on the other side of them. I would never attempt to do this, and I'd never say it's a good idea, but I think the show is very interresting and the camera shots they get are incredible. However, my fascination doesn't in any way change the fact that I know lions are dangerous. I guess what I'm trying to say is there's nothing wrong with recognizing the beauty in an animal as long as one doesn't trivialize the danger that the animal could pose to a person.

[Art Eatman]

Yup. All of the above, plus we mustn't forget that Salter's book "Bambi" wuz a documentary...

Art

[Joe Demko]

Eh. Don't blame Disney. People have been killed by animals since the beginning. Just read an interesting piece about crocodile attacks in Africa. Seems the crocs learn to recognize the spots where villagers come to get water from the rivers. Easy meal for a croc to snatch a villager right off the bank. Yet the villagers continue to use the same spots to draw water. Apparently, the occasional victim is considered part of the cost of getting water. My point, I guess, is that people who are ignorant get killed by animals, but so do people who know better.

[twoblink]

And then, we musn't forget the "macho" factor..

I once heard some guy say "I saw a Russian wrestle a bear in the circus once.. So bears aren't that tough... just about as tough as a strong human.."

:uhoh:

Preacherman... Darwinism caught on video huh? :evil:

[wardmclark]

I had a Hispanic buddy in the Army who told me that "macho was Spanish for a**hole." :)

[Sunray]

"...build big homes in the hills..." Letterman had a visit into his house in Montana not long ago. He got smart and just filmed Yogi until it decided to leave. Next night he showed the crisper bin from his fridge. Bent in half and punctured by a black bear. That didn't look particularly big. I spent a couple hours in his house, even had a nap on one of the beds. No panic from Dave though. Filmed it and stayed out of its way. He's not a daft as he carries on to be.
"...they would just as soon rip you apart as smell you..." Nonsense. Yogi doesn't want anything to do with you. You are not food to him. You are nothing but trouble and you stink. Yogi doesn't want to tear you apart unless you annoy him or his wife's kids.
"... People have been killed by animals..." True, but Disney and Marlin Perkins made them the cuddly wee things that most people think they are.

[H&Hhunter]

Sunray.

I've sent you a private message.

[Byron Quick]

It's a combination of urbanization of the population, decline of hunting even amongst the rural population, and the TV shows which show an anthromorphized view of wildlife that is simply false...even the rural population falls to confusing lessons learned on TV with reality.

And, all too often, it leads to folks handfeeding the bears or mucking around with other wildlife and then wondering why they got bitten, hooved, or mauled. After all, that didn't happen to the people on TV, which is usually their sole source of wildlife information.

The wildlife is supposed to pick up on their peaceful, non-threatening vibes and engage in the fellowship of Gaia or something.

[Biff]

Shortly after I arrived in Alaska, courtesy of the U.S. Army, I was chatting with the Company Commander about hunting and fishing. He took the opportunity to advise me on what was the best handgun to take into the woods for bear defense. The Captain emphatically stated that the best gun to have in case of bear attack was a .25 ACP. I took the bait and asked why. He said, "Well, you know you should never go into the woods wlone here. That's rule number one. So you and your buddy are out fishing, and a bear starts to charge. You reach int your pocket, pull out your .25, and take careful aim...and shoot your buddy in the knee! Then you take off running. The bear will go after the first one of you it can catch."

[standingbear]

I recall seeing a bobcat around the cliffs of Big Sur while at a gas station; and someone commented how cute they were.their cute little claws will rip a new oriface if one gets ahold of you too.you may be bigger then one but they are 10x faster and they do have very sharp retractable claws...a brother-in law decided to make a innocent chipmonk a gift for his wife because she had commented how adorable they are.thought he would put the critter in a hamster cage.even gloves didnt save his finger after he grabbed it in a live trap...it lit into his hand and bit him right down to the bone..as serious as it was-i stood there helplessly laughing myself to near unconciuosness as the subdued- cute little chipmonk ripped his "trigger" finger to shreds.bears are no exception-they have a massive amount of strength,long clws and a serious attitude when they get poed or surprised.

[twoblink]

On discovery, they say the bigger "cats" will get up to 6"... in claws!!:what:

60lbs of bobcat vs 200lbs of man.. I know who will win, without acception!!

Have you seen what a bobcat does to a deer??? and the deer has like 8x the size on him easily..

Someone said to me, a Bobcat = housecat x 100.

A mountain lion = housecat x 1000.

Don't know if that's true, but I ain't gonna find out the hardway..

Gf and I had the bear discussion while on the subway yesterday.. she says the cartoons always portray... if the bear is chasing you, climb a tree and wait up there to be rescued... She said after my "educational seminar" about wild animals, she's smarter than that now..

Only problem is her friends take Disney's word over hers...:banghead: :cuss:

[MeekandMild]

60lbs of bobcat vs 200lbs of man..I know who will win, without acception!! Common 6 pound housecat will hurt you. I once had cuts on my forearms all the way through the skin into the muscle from a feral housecat my wife let into the house (long story). Thing attacked one of my kids and I didn't have a baseball bat handy so had to tackle it and strangle it down to get it back out of the house. Cuts in my arms were made through the blanket I slung over it to slow it down.

:uhoh:

[Joe Demko]

A prized memory from college...a certain individual, whom I didn't like, lured a squirrel into grabbing range in a campus oak grove. No big trick, these squirrels were used to getting hand-outs. Well, after he grabbed it, it set to work on his hands with those big nut-crushing teeth and all four sets of claws. He looked like he a gray tornado in his hands. When it was done, he looked like he had drunkenly tried to trim his fingernails with a food processor. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving fellow, either.

[Smoke]

Common 6 pound housecat will hurt you.

Amen.

There is a procedure that can be performed on a male house cat to prevent an overpopulation of barn cats. This procedure is customarily performed (around ranch country anyway..) by shoving the cat head down in an old boot.

When I was a kid it was suggested by my Dad that the barn cats were getting a little thick and I might want to set up a Planned Parenthood Clinic. He described the procedure in detail, heck I'd done it on 400# calves, a little old cat wouldn't be any trouble.

The only detail he left out was how do you get the cat in the boot? I caught 3 cats by various means. Transferring them from captivity to the boot left tracks on my thigh, both arms and my neck. And I succeded in not harming any cats. And my Planned Parenthood Clinic went out of business.

Dad had good Laugh.

Smoke

[Specialized]

When I lived in Boulder, CO, in the late 1980's, there was an article in the Rocky Mountain News about a woman that successfully repelled a mountain lion's attack on her two poodles that took place on the back deck of her house, in the foothills of Boulder. The cat apparently had bitten one dog fatally, and was in the process of grabbing the second when the woman ran out and began beating him with a broom. The cat ran off, without either dog; I never heard whether the problem continued or whether anyone followed it up.

The story was written so seriously that it struck me funny -- and the fact that the surviving dog's name was "Fifi" didn't help, either. I was laughing so hard that it drew the attention of a co-worker, who was disgusted at my "lack of empathy" for the plight of animals. I just thought it was crazy that this woman didn't have a clue about how close she'd come to being the third course in that lunch... :)

I find myself having little or no sympathy (or empathy, for that matter) for people that humanize or rationalize animal behavior into human behavior. I don't believe humans are anything but another species of animal, but we have evolved so differently from the rest of the animal kingdom that we've almost totally lost our knowledge of, and instincts for, the wild. I think people and programming that lead us further that direction do us a terrible disservice.

Just my opinion. As with all opinions, your mileage may vary.

Specialized

[Stand_Watie]

I saw a very sick, half dead to start with, cat strangled once. The theory was "we'll just wring his neck like a chicken, it'll be relatively painless and over in a twinkling".

That was the theory anyway. It was inside a burlap sack, and the guy doing the deed wearing heavy leather gloves "just in case". It took him (a large guy) several horrible minutes of intense wringing to complete the job, and he still got clawed some.

I would caution anyone against that method of cat disposal, unless they're both a sadist and a masochist.

[MeekandMild]

Concerning cat strangling, I wouldn't recommend it unless the cat in question is currently trying to kill one of your children, and then to do it only long enough to get the critter out to the door. I figure about 15 seconds is about as long as either you or the cat could stand. Any more than that either the cat will get hurt or you'll bleed to death. :what:


The cat in question at my house wasn't at all hurt. I saw him several times over the next few weeks sitting by the curbside sharpening his claws and glaring at me. :rolleyes:

[twoblink]

One of the "other" problems are "cubs".

"Ahh, aren't they cute?" There's a saying from my friends up in Washington state.. "When I see a cub, I haul a$$ outta there!"

Momma bear "ain't" friendly when there's a cub around (boy, how is that for an understatement??)

And then you see the home video's of little kids going "Mom! I saw a cub!! Can we stop and go pet it?"

:rolleyes:

You mean become lunch for it??

"Cougar Alley" up by I16 in the middle of California.. There are signs put up by locals that said "If it's dusk, and you need to take a leak, do it in the car....."

:what: