Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies (RANT)


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Keyser Soze
January 27, 2004, 01:42 PM
Since 1997 I have owned a Standard Modael Scattergun Technologies Remington 870. I carry it as my primary long gun on duty everyday I work. This fall I realized that the Tritium inserts on the sights are completely out.

I send an email to Wilson/Scatterguns in September indicating that I purchased the gun in 1997 and was it still under warranty. A short time later I get a reply from one of their customer service representitives. He indicates that it is still under warranty and they will fix the sights. He also goes on to tell me I can just send in the rear sight and barrel with the front sight.

In November I send another email on where to send the rear sight and barrel.

I was sent the address and told who to send it to ( Attention ________). Because of a really busy three months at work (huge caseload,warrants, etc) I wasn't able to send it off till just after the first of January. Well the barrell and sights have sat there for the last two and a half weeks. Yesterday I send and email to check on the status of my warranty repair. Later the next day I get get an email that indicates that since my gun is 8 years old and wasn't made by Wilson that the will not warranty my sights.

Now I am just alittle upset as I sent emails inquiring about my warranty prior to ever sending anything to Wilson. I also attached all emails and replies when corresponding to Wilson through email. I tried to call a supervisor there today but only was able toleave a voice mail.

My concern is twofold. First they tell me that my sights are warranted and never once during any correspondence do they say otherwise. The whole time they were aware that my gun was purchased in 1997 from Scatterguns Technologies. Second even though Wilson bought Scatterguns Technologies in 2000 and proudly list them as a division of Wilson Combat on their website they appearantly will not warranty any work on Scatterguns Technologies guns that were built prior to them purchasing the company. So basically if you own one of these guns you have no warranty or repair recourse other than going to a local smith. The gun is identical to what Wilson is selling today with the exception of Armor Coat finishing as an option. My gun is identical to the current standard model.

So my question is what do I do? I am in a bind and need my barrel and rear sight back ASAP as I do not currently have a long gun with me at work. They also told me at the begining that they wer covered. One would think that Wilson would have taken care of the previous Scatterguns Tech customers when they bought the company.

I am just a little upset now.

I have all the emails and would gladly send them to anyone privately and not on the board.

KS

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glocksman
January 27, 2004, 01:55 PM
I'd call a lawyer.

If Wilson just bought ST as a company, they also assumed the debts and responsibilities of ST, including warranty work.

If ST was bankrupt and Wilson bought ST assets (such as the trademark, designs, and existing stock), then Wilson probably doesn't have to honor your warranty.

At the very least, Wilson should have sent you the barrel and rear sight back by now.

BTW, thanks for the heads up.
**adds Wilson to the list of 'never buy from' companies**

Car Knocker
January 27, 2004, 02:05 PM
I think the both of you are jumping the gun a little bit.

KS, until you get a response from a supervisor or manager, all you've got is one rep saying it's covered and another saying it's not. You do not yet have a definitive response from the company. Address a query to Bill Wilson personally.

glocksman, you could at least wait for something solid before putting a company on your s--t list.

Lone_Gunman
January 27, 2004, 02:05 PM
I'd call a lawyer.

Yea, or you could just save money and buy a whole new gun. I really dont think hiring a lawyer is going to be an efficient way of dealing with this.
The lawyer will cost you as much or more than a new gun.

I would quit piddling around with email; it is much easier for them to turn you down with an impersonal email. Call them. Talk to a human supervisor. Explain that you were told this would be done under warranty. Explain you are unhappy.

Wilson has extremely good customer service in general. They value customer satisfaction, and I bet they might end up doing this work under warranty as promised.

Keep us posted though, I would like to know how this turns out.

El Tejon
January 27, 2004, 02:08 PM
I as well.

Keyser Soze
January 27, 2004, 02:14 PM
Call them. Talk to a human supervisor. Explain that you were told this would be done under warranty. Explain you are unhappy. LG- this is what I plan to do and have said as much on the voicemail. I fully intend to take it all the way to Bill Wilson if I have to. But I shouldn't have to. Its this run around that really torques me. Does anyone know if Benelli has better customer service? J/K ;)

I don't believe ST was in any fianacial straits when Wilson aquired them.

I will keep the board updated good or bad.

The ST gun has been flawless in function and is a solid gun. The tritium going out is the ony problem I have had to date.


KS

HarryB
January 27, 2004, 06:57 PM
Had a nasty jam with my 1911 over the weekend. Turns out the follower in my 47D mag somehow broke. One phone call and two minutes later a new follower is shipped out to my house. No hassle, questions, or BS. Just good service!

Get a manager!

Keyser Soze
January 28, 2004, 08:48 PM
Update--

I left three voicemails with the supervisor yesterday. I called Wilson/ST today and finally got through to the supervisor. He asked me if I had received the email the customer service rep sent me. I told him that I had not since I was at work and did not have access to my personal account.

He told me that he had sat down with Bill last night and they decided to meet me half way and just charge me cost to fix the tritium inserts. He told me that the tritium sights were really only warranted for 6 years. I said it was my understanding that most if not all tritium sight are warranted between 10-12 years. I asked about his customer service rep telling me that the gun and sights were still under warranty. He told me that the rep had made a mistake and he was sorry for it. He asked me what more I wanted. I said that I just wanted them to warrant the sights. But if this would stop the grief I was experiencing I would meet them half way and pay the cost to fix my sights. I also stated that I would only be halfway happy with that resolution. I asked if Wilson/ST would warranty guns made by Scattergun Technologies prior to Wilson Combat Purchasing them. He told me that they will review it on a case by case basis.
I take that to mean that they will only stand 100% behind ST guns built after Wilson purchased them.

When I got home I checked my email from the customer service rep. He indicated the same as far as replacing the inserts at cost, apologizing for the other reps statement that it was covered. This statement bothers me though " we can not warranty a product that we did not sell in the first place." No they did not sell it but the did buy the company that did.

If I buy a Chrysler and they get bought by Daimler Benz will they still honor my warranty on my Chrysler? Even though I bought it when Chrysler was owned by Chrysler.

I just don't understand why if they bought the company and the shotguns are built to the exact same specs what the issue is.

I decided to pay the money to bring this experience to a close. I am not truly happy with the results but the replacement cost was still much much cheaper than paying for a full sight replacement. Once I get my gun back,
I for one will never do business with Wilson again and will do my best to discourage all those I work with to do the same. I do think Wilson Combat/ Scattergun Technologies makes some great products. The service I have received has been less than stellar. I think this has been a fiasco and if their rep screwed up and they received my part in their shop they should have ate the cost, kept a good reputation and changed their policy in the future or indicate such on their website concerning the ST guns built prior to their takeover.

There may very well be a Benelli in my future.

End of rant I hope this will help others when they consider a purchase from WC/ST.
:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

KS

Balog
January 28, 2004, 09:03 PM
I'd have never bought one of thier products any way, but this is additional good info.

Rob62
January 28, 2004, 10:43 PM
Keyser Soze,

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. It has been my personal experience that Wilson/ST is a good company to deal with.

Years ago, when they had just bought out the original Scattergun Tech. Company I had a "Remington Steal" rebuild done on an old beater 870. As part of the rebuild they replaced the fore end cap with a new style cap.

Since I don't like the new style fore end caps I called them and asked them for the original which I had sent in with the gun. They informed me that would be no problem and sent an old style fore end cap out via USPS prioity mail at no cost.

It is good to know that they apparently will not stand 100% behind older ST built guns. I'm sure they are just trying to limit the amount of $$ they have to spend on these guns that were not modified by them, but considering everything I would think those costs would be minimal and easily absorbed. Specially considering what they are charging for newly built (modified) guns.

Regards,

Rob

tc300mag1
January 28, 2004, 10:58 PM
Thats good to know i dont own a gun from either of them but makes me think i would pass as expensive as guns are from them

Lone_Gunman
January 28, 2004, 11:23 PM
Yea, I am surprised they are giving you a hard time about this.

Maybe email the supervisor a link to this thread?

As of right now, this thread has been viewed 545 times. Thats a lot of bad PR for Wilson, and the people who frequent here are the ones likely to spend big money on guns.

Keyser Soze
January 28, 2004, 11:29 PM
I don't want them to see this thread until I get my barrel and rear sight back. I don't need my POI changing due to a severe bend in the barrel. ;)

KS

DMK
January 28, 2004, 11:31 PM
If Wilson just bought ST as a company, they also assumed the debts and responsibilities of ST, including warranty work. I'm no lawyer and don't know what the law says, but *all things equal*, the statement by glocksman describes honest, ethical, business practice.

OTOH, the flip side is perhaps ST didn't have such a great warranty in the first place and would have charged full price to repair your gun if Wilson didn't own them today. Perhaps Wilson is now judging the repair work against Wilson's warranty standards on a case by case basis and trying not to get themselves in a huge hole due to ST having bought a few inferior parts to cut corners. If that were the case, you wouldn't be coming out that bad.

Detritus
January 28, 2004, 11:43 PM
Thats good to know i dont own a gun from either of them but makes me think i would pass as expensive as guns are from them

my thoughts exactly...... what concrete advantage does having a gun built by ST/wilson actually HAVE to most of us??

there are a few things their guns have that are not readily available on an off the shelf gun, but most of those features are things that could be done either at home or by a local gunsmith for well below what wilson/ST want for guns that well quite frankly seem to become "ubertactical" just because they have that name on the side someplace....

no thanks

esp with THIS type of customer service, this smells of "hey let's milk this guy b/c we have an EXCUSE TO"

schadenfreude
January 28, 2004, 11:44 PM
Thanks for posting your experience.

I was getting ready this week to place a large accessory order with Wilson for several 19911 parts, mags, and accessories.

I'm not going to at this point. I don't like the attitude and it's too easy to take my $$$ to one of the other companies.

They need to realize that this is a new era of consumerism and a single offhand comment by some hump in customer service can lose them 100 customers in 5 minutes thanks to global communities like these. :rolleyes:

Amish_Bill
January 28, 2004, 11:49 PM
Good luck on getting a good resolution. A friend is still going ound and round with them to get the sights fixed on his CQB. They tell him that he's not shooting straight. Two other CQB owners shoot his left like he does, and he shoots their's straight.

Stories like these are why I smiled so much when I read about the Kimber Tactical series.

I'm still thinking of getting a handful of their 8 round mags though. Except for the odd story about their followers breaking, I've heard nothing but good about them.

Norm357
January 29, 2004, 11:22 AM
Why didnt you call and ask for Bill himself? I have never had a problem getting him on the phone.

buzz_knox
January 29, 2004, 11:44 AM
On a related note, have they stopped making models based on the 1187P? I don't see it listed on the wilsoncombat.com site.

Joe Mamma
January 29, 2004, 04:38 PM
Yeah, Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies sucks. I sent a new 870 to them before and would NEVER send a gun to them again. I had many bad experiences with them from just this one gun. To give you the quick story, I had to wait months for the work to get done, mismatched and incorrect parts were installed, and one of the "new" parts was rusted. Here is the long story:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1125101#post1125101

Joe Mamma

F4GIB
January 29, 2004, 05:43 PM
Of course Wilson CAN stand behind a product they didn't sell. Most manufacturers do this when they acquire another company.

BUSHMASTER stands behind the warranty on every Professional Ordnance Carbon-15.

It is only good business (but "good business" is seldom understood in the firearms industry). There IS a reason why Bushmaster is SO successful.

Car Knocker
January 29, 2004, 06:51 PM
KS,

Thank you for the follow-up after reaching a supervisor. I WAS planning to get a Wilson for CCW this spring but, based on what I've read here, I think I'll explore other options.

Amish_Bill
January 29, 2004, 07:14 PM
Car Knocker -

-- compare the Wilson CQB and the Kimber Tactical. They seem to be similar in most ways.... except price. (or the Kimber CDP - I like mine...)

tc300mag1
January 29, 2004, 07:59 PM
Unless things have a changed just a few years ago maybe 5 there was a article i think in american handgunner that Kimber made the slides frames and most small parts for Wilson only difference was the barrel.. Anyone know if this has changed..

Pylon
January 29, 2004, 08:25 PM
Wow thanks for sharing this customer service story. This really makes me rethink the way i think about this campany. For all that wonderful customer service literature they spout on the website

"You Get the Best Guaranteed Customer Service" and 'YOU WILL BE EXTREMELY SATISFIED"

I think they might be taking those statements a little too far. Even if they did just single Keyser Soze out, and he is not a textbook example of what how customer service is like for the rest of us, what says that they won't treat us the same way? I mean, at the rediculous prices that WC products cost, i would expect unquestionable service and a free complentry gun thrown in, literally, just for calling.

As minor as this case may be to WC, i assure them to the individual customer like Keyser Soze, this is a big deal, especially when it comes to firearms that might possibly save a life one day.

Little incidents like this speak loud on the internet. Wilson Combat should take note.

saddlebum
January 29, 2004, 08:25 PM
kaiser sosze doesn't exist at least no ones ever seen him and lived to tell a bout it.:neener: saddlebum

Keyser Soze
January 29, 2004, 10:55 PM
Saddlebum watch it I know where you live :evil: J/K

Well today I received a call from the second customer service rep to get my cc# and advise me that the repair was done and they were shipping it off today. He apologized again for the "misunderstanding" about the gun be warrantied. He then gave me the total plus return shipping. More than I wanted to pay but still less than buying new sights.

I told him that they really should post something on their website about no longer honoring any warranty for the pre- WC guns. He told me that Bill told them (this was third hand, take it for what its worth) that they would warranty the pre-WC shotguns for one year after the takeover. I said that would have been nice if the posted such information so that all affected parties would be aware of the new rules.

The funny thing is now they told me that my tritium inserts are now warrantied for 7 years and the sights themselves are warrantied for life (my life, their life, who knows?)

So now a few bills later I am waiting for my barrel and rear sight to return.
Those will be the last $$$ Wilson Combat ever sees from me.

KS

Car Knocker
January 30, 2004, 12:20 AM
Amish Bill,

Thanks for the suggestion.

Kilroy
January 30, 2004, 08:55 AM
I have had a large number of Remington 870s rebuilt by the old SGT firm and was always very happy with their work. Our SGT guns along with a visit to Vang Comp gave us some very good shooting and high quality guns.

After a job change, I was in a position to have even more guns refurbished and refer other agencies to such services. Curious to see how Wilson performed, I sent them an 870 in need of their "Remington Steal".

I won't do that again.

The work was not as good. The barrel was changed out for a cheaper one with a flimsy rear sight. When asked about the sling stud, for which there was no provision for on the cheap butt stock provided, they sent a stud/bolt and instructions to drill a hole in the side of the stock "somewhere". Of course the magazine cap with swivel stud was not returned. After making some complaints they sent me one of the stamped units that slide over the tube, locked on by the cap and have no provision for quick release swivels.

I am responsible for a large number of Remington 870s and making sure they are properly rebuilt. There are some other firms out there and I will be testing their re-build services.

harpethriver
January 30, 2004, 11:14 AM
As a former resident of Nashville I enjoyed the opportunity to walk in SGT and get personalized service. Roger and the guys were ultra friendly and did great workat a fair price. I know several other people I referred to them were just as happy. I was disappointed when they sold to Wilson Combat, not because of a percieved potential lack of service, rather for the loss of the convenience factor, and the inability to chat face to face with the owners/gunsmiths who actually worked on one of my self-defense weapons. Naturally I assumed that WC bought more than the name SGT. The good value and personalized sevice we grew to associate with SGT should have gone with the name. If WC is not going to honor the warranties SGT had in place at the time WC purchased SGT, then WC has engaged in a deceptive marketing ploy. WC needs to take a clear and definitive stand on this issue, and they need to let THR and the gun buying public know immediately what that is. Until they do we can only go by the experiences posted on sites such as THR. Lastly, at the time WC purchased SGT WC already had great name recognition. WC did not need the SGT name to establish a recognizable presence in the self defense shotgun field. Clearly WC purchased SGT because the name SGT stood for more than just another gun mod company. If WC is not going to conduct business in a manner similar to SGT, then WC needs to drop the SGT name and stand on it's own.

CASAMadman
January 30, 2004, 12:22 PM
Hello all,

I just registered to this site a few minutes ago, literally, as I heard that it was a cool site with lots of good info related to my interests. I was scanning the subjects listed and just had to respond here. Normally, I lurk for a while and try to establish a "feel" for the board, how it is moderated and the general mood/tone of the posts before I begin posting myself. However, this thread caught my eye and I would really like to jump into this conversation.

So, since I am so new here, perhaps a little info and a disclaimer is in order. If you look at my profile, you will notice that I list myself as a Board of Directors Member of the Central Arkansas Shooters' Association. A cursory investigation of that organization will reveal that we shoot a lot of IDPA and IPSC matches. My club has hosted a couple of IDPA state championships and last year's National Championships. We will also be hosting this year's IDPA Nats again.

Having said that, you would be correct to assume that I am a FoBW... Friend of Bill Wilson. I have dealt with WC, Bill Wilson on many occassions and have a great deal of respect for the man. Having said that, I also want to emphatically state, for those who will believe me, that I DO NOT consider myself a BW apologist. I am not now, nor have I ever been, employed by Bill Wilson.

Also, as you may have guessed, my real name is not CASAMadman. I am Ken Williamson. My email address is listed in my profile.

Now, you know who I am and can rightfully assume that I will have a bias in favor of BW. I hope you will also give me the benefit of the doubt and take my posts for what they are, the opinions of a guy who has had many favorable dealings with WC and who would like to add some balance to the discussion here. I will not try to defend WC or BW for any actions (or lack thereof) that I don't personally feel were appropriate or agree with, but.... I will vigorously defend the company, the man and the good reputations shared by both that have been earned over many years and are rightfully deserved.

Now, I've gotten the into out of the way and I look forward to responding to some of the statements and comments contained in this thread. Unfortunately, I am at work right now and must go attend a meeting. I look forward to contributing to this forum on this and many other topics, but I will have to wait to begin until after my meetings have concluded today.

Thank you, ken

Joe Mamma
January 30, 2004, 01:30 PM
" . . . Those will be the last $$$ Wilson Combat ever sees from me.

KS"

I feel exactly the same way. I don't even want to buy Wilson Combat parts from a third party vendor . . .

Joe Mamma

ajacobs
January 30, 2004, 02:05 PM
I don't want to put myself in the buisness of defending any company as I don't have anything to gain from it, but the old scattegun tech catalog I have sitting here (pre-wilson) lists a one year warranty. So my thoughts are they should not be responsible at this point for work done by the old scattergun tech (unless at some point their warrantly was longer and it is still within that period). Especially with an item that has a limited life, known to the user when they purchase it (tritium). Also loss of brightness is subjective. It degrades from day one and 10 years of usuable light means different things to different people.

That being said, if initially they said they would take care of it, they should take care of it and then teach their employee's so that it does not happen again.

CASAMadman
January 30, 2004, 02:14 PM
I have heard of a few incidents like this, here and there, of a customer not getting what they wanted from their dealings with WC. For each of these, I have heard many more stories that relate just the opposite. I have heard stories of WC bending over backwards to do the right thing for the customer. Unfortunately, the people that are extremely satisfied with their customer service experience rarely speak up about it whereas the folks that feel like they got screwed are often very quick to shout it from the mountains.

Many people in this thread have now made comments about how they will no longer spend any more $$ on WC products, and that is your right. One person immediately responded that WC will end up on his "list" of companies not to do business with. Again, that is his right. But it all seems like such a automatic, sophomoric, knee-jerk reaction to one issue that one person had.

You'll have to forgive me if I look at some of these posts and responses with some skepticism. One person thinks that he should receive a free gun just for calling in!! Really. Something tells me you're not a businessman, or at least not a successful business man.

People are taking exception to the "extremely satisfied" customer service statements on the WC website. Folks, I manage a customer service organization for a living. It's what pays my bills. I can tell you that there are always customers who create unwinable situations. Some customers will not be "extremely satisfied" no matter what you do for them... even if you did give them a free gun they'd probably bitch about how it wasn't the color they wanted.

Companies want to provide outstanding customer service today in all industries. We have to because the competition is so tough and the margins so small. Everyone offers basically the same stuff at roughly the same price so the only thing left to differenciate yourself from your competition is your customer service. However, companies still have to maintain a balance between meeting customer expectations and meeting the financials that allow you to continue to stay in business and perform at th level you do. Customers that have unreasonable expectations will be dissappointed with your customer service.

Example, just the other day I had a guy who was pissed that his service was cut off. He admitted that it was cut off because he didn't pay his bill. But once he payed it, and we waived the reconnect fee, he was still pissed because he wanted us to credit off half of his next bill as a sign of "customer good will". I told him no, he said he'd half to look elsewhere for his telecom needs. Moral of the story, with customers like that, it costs more to keep them than they are worth.

Now, I'm not saying that Mr. Soze's expectations were unreasonable. Not at all. I don't know the details of this situation beyond what he has shared with us here. I personally would not have gotten all bent out of shape because a company won't do everything I want for free on a product that they didn't make or sell. I would have been happy with the work done at cost on sights that were original to the gun and have been tampered with since. And, as far as the new sights being warranteed for life, "life" means the life of the product in question.

Many folks are having a good time commenting about the cost of the WC guns. If you don't like it, don't buy them, that's your choice. But the prices are fair and reasonable for the product you get and for the service that comes with it. I don't think there is a finer 1911 on the market and their guns are worth every penny.

My opinions, shared by few, I'm sure...

ken

Night20
January 30, 2004, 03:02 PM
If its not too personal, Keyser could you give a ballpark figure of what you were charged? Just trying to figure in my head how much $$$ they felt justified in saving, while ruining relations with atleast one cutomer.

harpethriver
January 30, 2004, 03:21 PM
CASA-welcome to THR and thanks for your replies. Yes, you are correct, these are knee-jerk, sometimes sophomoric reactions to one situation. And I must admit that I had forgotten about the stated 1 yr. warranty as SGT often went above and beyond the call of duty and overlooked that. Certainly I don't expect WC to do the same. I do, however, expect WC to honor the commitment made by one of it's employees. If a member of my staff makes a promise to a customer, then we follow through as we said we would, even if it means we lose a few bucks because of our mistake. WC could have easily said "you know, we screwed up, but because we said we were gonna fix this free of charge that's what we're gonna do." WC could have even told the customer in the future they wouldn't be able to do that, but this time they would because we said we would. I guarantee WC would have had a happy customer for life who would have been telling THR what a great experience he had at WC. Technically, WC doesn't have to do this, after all, the warranty clearly states 1 year, but if you say your gonna do something, then do it, because in this business if your word's no good, even in one isolated case, then your rep can get trashed. WC may have a tough time here because SGT was an easily accessible business and often fixed stuff out of warranty. That cannot be expected of WC-that would be unfair. In raising "the deceptive marketing ploy" question I was wrong, as I do not believe WC would intentionally do that, and yes, I did conveniently forget the 1 year warranty, and while I'm on the subject of admitting errors I was overly critical of WC in suggesting they be able to conduct business the way SGT did. Bottom line-if indeed WC did agree to fix these sights for free and then reneged on the word of an employee, then this thread wouldn't even exist if they had done what they said they would do.

tc300mag1
January 30, 2004, 03:26 PM
Im in the repair industry and i know how warrenty works and i know about goign above and beyond so as i said when someone has a bad time with a company i do check them off my list to buy from.. ive had a terrible time with remington to fix a bolt gun last tiem ill buy from them period. for the cost of guns be it a 500$ rifle or 1500$ pistol i expect good service and warrenty ive only had to send in 1 gun out of 15+ i own and got crappy service. ive read all about great remington service but i sure didnt get it.

CASAMadman
January 30, 2004, 03:39 PM
Hey guys, I just got a call from my son's school... apparently he beat up his girlfriend's ex boyfriend... knocked the kid unconcious.... so I gotta go and cannot reply as I would like. However, before I go, I do want to throw out this one last thing..... I totally agree that companies should be in the habit of standing by the word of their employees, especially companies the size of WC. My opinion, they'd have been better served by making the exception this time and taking the appropriate action, in-house, with the employee who gave the incorrect information. That is not to say that a company shouldn't have to stand by any completely outrageous promises, though this (again, in my opinion) is not the case here.

Short version, WC would have been better off eating it on this one exchange and backing the play of their employee who supplied incorrect info to the customer. But, I do not believe that this is something that is systemic within the company nor do I believe (nor has it been my experience) that this is something that happens with any frequency or regularity. Because of that, I do not believe that this incident is sufficient to warrant an all out boycot or placing them on the "list".

Okay, that's all for now, I gotta go yell at my kid in front of his teachers and principal & then take him home and high five him for using the technique I taught him for knocking someone out with one punch.

Ya'll have a great weekend and again, I look forward to participating on this board. ken

azrael
January 30, 2004, 03:43 PM
ok here are my .02 cents...

as a MODERATELY succesful businessman I to have had customers that I couldnt please no matter what I did for them...I could list several off the top of my head but this isnt the place for it...

As a small one man shop I value each and every customer that i have...HOWEVER there are those few that make my job no fun at all :(


harpethriver said...."Certainly I don't expect WC to do the same. I do, however, expect WC to honor the commitment made by one of it's employees. If a member of my staff makes a promise to a customer, then we follow through as we said we would, even if it means we lose a few bucks"....

I agree totally with this statement...personally I would have been satisfied with them doing the work on the house and me paying for the sights...BUT..if there EMPLOYEE said that it was covered then they should have honored that statement...

NOT so funny a story...My girlfriend happened to be in the shop one day and answered the phone...I was face deep in leather and glue at the time so I didnt pay that much attention..anyways she asks me for a return authorization for a holster for a customer that wasnt retaining the weapon the way it was supposed to...I picked up the phone and asked what the problem was and was then told by the customer that he had decided to "remold" it to fit a different gun and messed it up (he ran it through the rinse cycle)...I told him that if he sent the holster back I would just charge him the normal "shop" rate to fix it...even though he had voided the warranty....ON NO!! he says your "secretary" said that you would REPLACE it FREE OF CHARGE!!!!I grimace in pain from this and asked her did she tell him that??? she says "yea, so"?? I was SOO not happy:cuss:

But I replaced it as she had told him I would..granted I have sold this same customer 2 more holsters since this incident but every time I get an order from him or for that model of holster/weapon combo.. I think of the washing machine rinse cycle molding techique:barf:

Wilson Combat has a great reputation in the firearms community and should have known better...Maybe next time they will

end sermon

Correia
January 30, 2004, 03:53 PM
Welcome to THR CASAMadman.

Guys, I wouldn't place Wilson Combat on the crap list just because of this screwup (and yes I do consider it a major screwup to have one rep say one thing, and then another rep do something different).

I have heard way too many stories that go the opposite direction as well. There are lots of posts on this board and on TFL before that detailing WC customer service being great.

I've yet to hear of a gun company that does have a 100% satisfaction rate. I'm sure they are out there, but it is probably one of those shotgun companies that sell guns that cost more than my house. :)

Now personally I wouldn't buy a shotgun from them, or an AR. I think that I can find equivelent value elsewhere for less money. But that is just my personal opinion. I know other people who I really respect who disagree with that.

harpethriver
January 30, 2004, 04:02 PM
CASA-tell him I hope she was worth it.

riverdog
January 30, 2004, 04:19 PM
Gotta go with the new guy on this one. The shotgun is out of warranty and a misstatement by an employee doesn't put it back under warranty. Keyser knows how long he's owned the shotgun and he knows what the warranty from ST was, why expect more from Wilson. I own two Wilson pistols and lots of their parts on other pistols. I like their service.

CASAMadman: ???? happens and sometimes the other guys deserves to get beat up. Hope your son is okay.

PS: I own three 870's and none will go to Wilson. A WC/ST 870 won't shoot any better than these do now, so what's the point.

Keyser Soze
January 30, 2004, 04:29 PM
Riverdog,

Keyser knows how long he's owned the shotgun and he knows what the warranty from ST was

Just to be straight on the record, I did know and indicate in my first email to them how long I have owned the gun by telling them the purchase date. I do not have any paper work about the ST warranty. That is why I asked if it was still covered.. I was not trying to get a scam over on them.

KS

mattk
January 30, 2004, 04:32 PM
I have dealt with Wilson Combat on a number of occasions in my former career as a gun store commando/Wilson dealer.

Here is my take: In a sea of mediocre 1911 parts manufactures, Wilson makes very good parts. His guns simply do not excite me. They are nice and well made but I find them dull.
Their service is pretty good but its not great either. A bunch of companies are worse. Some are better.
Dont throw them under the bus just yet.

And remeber Bill Wilson maybe a hell of guy on the range, but he might a jerk as a business man. Hey it happens. But I bet if write directly to him about your problem with your shotgun, he might make it right.

Keyser Soze
January 30, 2004, 04:38 PM
Mattk,

While I did not talk to Bill Wilson personally, the supervisor I talked to said that he had sat down with Bill on spoke at length about it. Like I said though at this point I just want to put my gun back together and move on.

Live and learn,

KS

edited for spelling.

mattk
January 30, 2004, 04:50 PM
Well sir,
That just plain sucks.

DBR
January 30, 2004, 10:57 PM
Keyser Soze:

I maybe missing something here, but notwithstanding the wrong info from the first customer service rep, you had night sights with a useful life of 8-12 years. They were 6 years old. You got new ones for half price and your old ones were at least half used up. Doesn't seem too unfair to me.

Personally, I don't think Wilson makes the best guns or even the second best guns and I do think their stuff is over priced compared to the competition so I wouldn't be likely to buy a gun from them anyway - just MHO.

Keyser Soze
January 31, 2004, 04:51 AM
DBR,

The half life on night sights are 12.5 years according Trijicon and PT night sights (IWI). That means that the sights will be half as bright as when they are new. This information would mean that night sights have a useful life beyond 12.5 years and shouldn't be completely zero until 25 years. I plan to be retired long before then. Mine were completely dead. Zero light was being emitted. I think it was clearly a warranty issue with them. I have the original night sights on my G17 that was issued 10 years ago and the still emit a susbstantial amount of illumination.

If they were emitting any light at all I would not have contacted Wilson.

KS

DBR
January 31, 2004, 08:41 PM
Keyser Soze:

FWIW, I have more than 6 sets of Trijicon sights all from the 1995-1996 period. While they are all still bright enough to be useful, they are noticeabley less bright than new ones. I would be very surprised if they are still useful in another 6 years. Theoretically, they will continue to dim almost for eternity, but when they are less than half as bright as when new I think I will retire mine. By the way, I do think you were treated poorly by Wilson. For what they pay for full page adds to attract new customers, I think they made a very shortsighted decision in not doing everything reasonable to retain an existing customer.

45-auto
January 31, 2004, 10:08 PM
Customer service is EVERYTHING if you're in business.

I haven't dealt with Wilson and can't comment on them.

Let me sing the praises of firms that have been good to me:

I had an excellent experience with Colt years ago when I got my first Combat Commander. They went WAY beyond the demands of warranty when I had a reliability problem with the new gun and even reworked the feed ramp to handle my chosen load of Hydra Shocks. They went so far as to range test it with 100 fairly expensive rounds. It came back fixed, clean and, in effect, customized at no charge. An experience like that makes me a good spokesman for them years later.

I have also found RCBS to be above reproach. I broke a part on one of their dies and they immeidately sent me a replacement, plus a new spare part. I won't buy anybody else's dies now. They earned my loyalty.

Keyser Soze
February 5, 2004, 12:00 AM
I was going to let this thread die but something came up.
I finally received my package from Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies. The box is in perfect shape no damage. I open the box and find my barrel also in perfect shape with new tritium inserts. Missing is my rear sight. The barrel was packed nicely and there was no way the rear sight could have fallen out of the box. Every seam was taped.

Email sent to WC/ST when I got home from work. I will post when I get a reply.

What else can happen now?


KS


:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Atticus
February 5, 2004, 12:18 AM
They said they'd meet you half way...it sounds like you got the front half. :cuss:

I've never owned a Wilson product simply because of their pricing. My old PD trade- in 870 ($125) works just fine. I'm sure Wilson does produce high quality goods...but that lifetime warranty is the cornerstone of their business. Hope you get your sight back.

Amish_Bill
February 5, 2004, 12:21 AM
My buddy just vented to me about the slide he sent in. It came back (after a long time setting unopened in the WC shop) with only half the work done. :-(

I sure hope someone who has had a good service experience with WC would speak up. A good, recent experience would be even better!

George Hill
February 5, 2004, 12:35 AM
Customer service is everything... agreed.
However sometimes you gotta draw the line... you can't give every customer everthing.
Tritiums sights run down after 5 years. These sights going over 7, that's pretty cool. You got extra milages. Buy new inserts and move on. This isn't Wilson Combat's fault.
I think it's pretty generous that they went half way for you.

Good enough.

Amish_Bill
February 5, 2004, 12:41 AM
Yes... going half way may have been a generous move on WC's part. Keeping his rear sight seems to negate any satisfaction that might have been expected.

CASAMadman
February 5, 2004, 11:46 AM
Un-Freakin-believable!!!

I gotta tell ya that I didn't expect this. I just called WC and got on the phone with one of the Managers and advised them about this situation. I have been assured that they are overnighting a rear sight to you, Mr. Soze, and with it, they are sending their most sincere apologies.

They're sending it CoD though..... Ha!! just messing with ya.... but wouldn't that just cut it ?!?!?!?

I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here by looking into this, but I wanted to look into this myself since I really do feel that this is not typical of the type of customer service that folks can expect from WC.

I am personally sorry for all the trouble you have had to go through on this deal, primarily because I have always had a very good experience with WC and with BW & his wife, Joyce. They are good people and BW is serious about his expectations with regards to customer service. They are as upset about this situation as you are, sir.

Once again, sorry to hear about the continuation of this little saga. Hopefully you will get excellent service out of the firearm for many years to come.

Ken

Keyser Soze
February 5, 2004, 02:49 PM
Got a call this morning from the cs rep I was dealing with. He apologized for the error and is overnighting my rear sight to me. I am really glad they are overnighting it to me and feel that they did a great job in correcting this error.

CASAMadman,

No problem with talking to Wilson. Maybe it will help someone from having the same experience I had.

End of thread.



KS

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