Heard this comment about the S&W M36/J frame...?


September 30, 2011, 07:11 PM
I have heard now more than once that the M36/J frame is an "experts" gun, not one to be used by a novice. Is there any credence to this? I am a new owner of a M36-2 1 7/8" barrel, only gun I currently own (and have not shot as of yet, my first gun that I intend to shoot, bought as a HD/SD piece) and am curious. I hope to get some range time within the next two weeks...with some of the comments I have heard about the gun, I am hopeful I will even hit the target.


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September 30, 2011, 07:27 PM
I'm thinking you'll get a lot of replies about this. My opinion (and that only) is that you didn't pick the best first and only gun. I love the J's but you need range time and they are a bit more difficult to control. Not all J's though. My 60-4 with a 3" barrel and adjustable sights is a great range gun. My 442, not really a range gun but I have fun and it's my main carry piece. I'd just sit back and enjoy what the folks here have to say and take it all in. Great bunch here.

September 30, 2011, 07:29 PM
Absolutely no reason why you cannot shoot your model 36. I had my model 60since the 70s and never a problem. I don't shoot it a great deal as it is a defense gun and not a target gun. Also if its an older model, it is not rated for plus P ammo.

September 30, 2011, 07:37 PM
My wrists cannot handle +P anyway, so that isn't a problem (as far as ammo goes, standard pressure .38 is probably the max I can handle in a pistol).

I look forward for more opinions. :)

Rollis R. Karvellis
September 30, 2011, 07:45 PM
Well it sounds to me that if it is an experts gun, you need to become an expert with it. That means practice, and lots of it. Both dry fireing, and live fire. Make sure you do it right to start with, then you won't have any bad habits to brake. A N.R.A., certified instructor is a great help.

September 30, 2011, 08:14 PM
Most J-Frames are a little tough to get proficient if you just shoot a few rounds down range every once in a while. I would think that the part of "expert" is that they are close-in pieces and often indexed vice using the sights. Yes, they can be accurate, but I do most of my “pocket gun” shooting from arms-length to about seven yards out…all very close range and as fast as safely possible from my carry position. I'm going off a close friend who has done several courses with just a J-Frame and most his shooting is indexed from his hip and he's quite accurate and very fast. I wouldn't say it's only for "experts", but getting proficient with any carry piece is needed.


September 30, 2011, 08:17 PM
I would not consider myself as an Expert. But a Model 36 was one of the first revolvers I bought when I ETSÚd in 74. So I have been at it awhile. Have not shot any wrong targets or caused any problems. I would say if you want to hit clay pigeons at 50 yards you better plan on starting at 15 yards first. That short little barrel just does not tolerate any wobble. Mike in Peru

September 30, 2011, 08:43 PM
The sights on a 36 are pretty crappy, but that just comes with the territory for old snubbies.

I had a 36 as one of my first handguns. It wasn't a tack driver, but it sure as heck wasn't worthless. It was the first gun I carried after I got my permit.

September 30, 2011, 09:09 PM
I think "expert's gun" is misleading. Whatever your skill level, a heavier revolver with a longer barrel would be easier and more comfortable to shoot accurately. Calling it an expert's gun implies that there are other guns that the beginner can shoot with ease and total accuracy from the outset - however, there are no such guns. Some are easier and some are harder but all require the same amount of practice to get out of the gun the ultimate performance of which it is capable.

Any gun is a compromise between many factors. What's important is whether YOU love it after you've shot it and carried it for a year or two in YOUR life style.

My first gun about 2 years ago was a J-frame with a 1-7/8" barrel. I now have more than a dozen handguns to choose from (up to .500 S&W) but my J-frame is the one that is constantly with me because of its lightness and compactness. I shoot my other guns at the range and might carry some of them occasionally but the J-frame has earned a special place in my heart because it is so handy that it has become my go-to gun, my almost constant companion. (If I knew I was going to a gun fight, I'd take one of my other guns but the J-frame fits in so well with MY everyday lifestyle).

Super Sneaky Steve
September 30, 2011, 09:17 PM
A firm grip and a slow steady squeeze of the trigger is all it takes to be good with these guns (and most others for that matter). If you can find a laser it makes for great dry fire practice as well.

When you can pull the trigger without your dot bouncing around then you've got it.

September 30, 2011, 09:23 PM
I have heard now more than once that the M36/J frame is an "experts" gun, not one to be used by a novice.Yes, I agree completely, but it depends on the range.

At longer range, the short sight radius will amplify any error in sight aligment. And the recoil will be worse than in a gun with a longer barrel.

Not sure that matters if you can touch your attacker. But I wouldn't want him that close.

David E
October 1, 2011, 01:13 AM
I suppose it depends on what you want to do with it.

If it's just to have "just in case," then it's fine, no expertise required.

If you want to actually HIT with it, then it depends on the size of the target and distance.

Most people cannot shoot them well, but most people embarrass themselves at the range with it, so they put it aside and blame the gun instead of mastering it.

The gun is fully capable of hitting a mansize target inside 50 yds and beyond, on purpose.

Aside from practice, you might consider some after market grips like Pachmayers and load it with light kicking 148 grain full wadcutters. Before long, you can hit a basketball on demand at 25 yds.

October 1, 2011, 03:49 AM
I've heard people claim that the 1911 is an "experts gun", but never a J frame. Realistically, the J frame is one of the most popular guns out there, but when you consider most people carry this as a pocket gun or a back up, the intended range of use statistically will be under 10 feet. I frequently recommend a .38 revolver to new shooters, not experts!

BTW, my first handgun over 30 years ago was a 3 inch J frame, and now after a long LEO career where I carried a .357, .44 spl, .45 Colt and a .45 acp, I'm back to carrying a J frame.;)


October 1, 2011, 10:16 AM
Someone once said snubbies are a 2-handed gun, one hand to hold the perp, one to hold the gun. If you want to shoot at any distance get a 4 to 6" revolver with adjustable sights. Snubbies are built small for easy concealment and
light weight, easy to carry. They are a close-in self defense weapon. Practice at those distances, very close (like 2') up to 10 yards, aimed and point shooting. When you've mastered that go for distance if you want but you will have accomplished the goal of become proficient with a SD firearm. And I'd suggest some speed strips for reloading, easy to carry, and some A Zoom practice rounds for dry fire. A lot of dry fire helps, and you can practice reloading at the same time. Good luck.

Old Shooter
October 1, 2011, 10:24 AM
For the first range session start out with a box of target wadcutters, they are mild in recoil and report so you can get used to how you handle the gun.

Start with the first target very close, 7 yards maximum. This will let you get shots on target and will be easy to see the hits and make sight and grip corrections.

Once you get to where you are doing well on the 7 yard target I'd use the standard velocity 158 grain round nose for additional practice and extend the target to 10 or 15 yards.

When familiar enough with it and you feel ready, load up what you plan to use for HD/SD
and then practice a bit with that load.

I use Winchester 158 gr lead semi-wadcutters +P in my model 36 and all works well for me but there are lots of brands and styles out there to choose from.

Then practice, practice, practice.

The J frames are not that hard to become proficient with, just takes a bit more concentration in the beginning with that short sight radius.

October 1, 2011, 11:13 AM
Enjoy your J and practice. It's not a experts hand gun. It's a close in reliable close in weapon.

David E
October 1, 2011, 11:42 AM
Enjoy your J and practice. It's not a experts hand gun. It's a close in reliable close in weapon.

Yes, it's that, but it's capable of sooo much more!

Why needlessly limit yourself with an arbitrary "it's a close-in weapon" label?

October 1, 2011, 01:06 PM
Some weapons have a steeper learning curve than others. All else being equal, a weapon which fits one's hands will have a gentler learning curve. For most people, this is means something like a K-frame revolver. Unless a person has tiny hands, a J-frame is not going to be a best fit. That being said, a beginner can learn to use a J-frame, such as the Model 36.

All else being equal, a longer sight radius is easier for learning marksmanship principles. While barrel length is independent of frame size, of course, few 4" to 6" barrels are to be found on a Model 36.

All else being equal, prominent sights are better for learning marksmanship. Except for rare exceptions, Model 36 means very small sights.

I start new shooters with my K-frame S&W Model 17, which shoots .22LR ammo. Fast learners will progress to a medium-frame with .38 ammo, and be shooting a .45 auto within the same range session. Something small, such as a J-frame, is rarely fun enough to find much favor, until the shooter desires
something seriously concealable, or wants a bit of a challenge. The rare exception Is the beginner who has small hands, well-suited to a small grip, plus a bit of hand strength.

October 1, 2011, 01:12 PM
The idea that the J-frame is an "experts gun" comes from the fact that it is more difficult to shoot well then the larger "standard size" K-frame revolvers.

The J frame is smaller and lighter all around than a K frame. That increases the recoil.

The J frame grip is smaller, that gives you less to hang onto.

The short barrel gives a very short sight radius. That makes it more difficult to get precise sight alignment for longer distance shooting.

And, the trigger geometry of the J frame is different than the K frame. This means the double action trigger is usually heavier than a K frame trigger.

So, when compared to a 4" barrelled, six shot, K-frame with a full size grip, yes, the smaller, lighter, J frame, with it's shorter barrel and smaller grip, is more difficult to shoot well.

Can it be done? Sure. Does it take more work to develop a competent level of skill? Yes.

I don't generally recommend a J frame for a beginner shooter, especially as a "first gun/only gun". Even if they are willing to put the time and effort into practice to get good with a J frame, their abilities as a new shooter would improve quicker with an easier gun to learn on.

October 1, 2011, 06:27 PM
I had such a gun as my first and only for years.

It will probably make you think you're a worse shot than you actually are, especially if you don't have another gun to compare it with.

Start small, and work your way up. Or else you'll be pretty discouraged. But as others have said, it can be done. It's just harder.

October 1, 2011, 06:51 PM
Use light target loads and you will be fine.

October 1, 2011, 07:24 PM
j frames are actually my favorite guns to shoot, so they get the most practice with. that is great because that is what i carry . it is easier to learn how to do something if you really enjoy it. take the time to practice with it if you carry it. i think you are going to like it. it is your first gun, probablly will not be your last.

October 1, 2011, 09:29 PM
It's a little harder to be as accurate with than longer guns, but with some practice (and guidance if necessary, and it's recommended in any case) you should become accurate enough with it for HD/SD.

Another issue is that it will kick more because it's small and light, but it's got a steel frame so it's not quite as light as the "Airweight" and "Airlite" revolvers that so many people complain about, and you're only shooting .38 Special, so it shouldn't be too bad (what really hurts is .357 Magnum in an Airlite). Even if it turns out to be a bit too much for you, then there are light, non-expanding (for adequate penetration) loads you could use.

Hondo 60
October 1, 2011, 10:31 PM
It's a bit more of an adventure to accurately shoot an M36 just because of the short barrel & lack of weight.

A longer barrel will stabilize the bullet more.
A heavier gun will retard the "felt recoil" more.

But all in all the M 36 has been a concealed carry piece since it was introduced as the "Chief's Special" in about 1951.

October 2, 2011, 11:31 PM
Thanks for all of the input. I hope to take it out for the first time in two weeks. Will see how I do. I am concerned that the recoil will kill my wrists (couple car accidents have messed them up completely) even with standard pressure. I may need to go with a .22LR.

David E
October 3, 2011, 01:50 PM
In those two weeks, buy some 148 grain wadcutter target ammo and Pachmayer grips for it. Your wrists will thank you.

October 3, 2011, 02:25 PM
I think anyone can become an "expert" with any gun. Calling a J-frame Smith an "expert's gun" probably alludes to trying to bullseye target shoot with a 2-inch barreled snubby. At Tueller Drill distance (21 feet) a snubby is just fine...and, probably easier than most to engage due to the short barrel. As with anything, practice is the key. I agree with an earlier post that some NRA pistol instruction also wouldn't hurt, if you are not very familiar with employing snubbies.

Good luck! Your M36 will serve you well!

October 3, 2011, 03:08 PM
David E, I already have about 200 rounds of exactly what you mentioned (inherited the rounds from a relative) and the M36 came with a huge set of monogrips. The grips look enormous on the gun, but it is quite comfortable to hold.

I will certainly give a report on how I do next week. There is a class coming up on some basics that I am considering. I have an old flying buddy that's father is a retired NRA instructor. Trying to tie him down for some tips too.

David E
October 3, 2011, 06:10 PM
Obviously, we need pics!

October 3, 2011, 06:46 PM
My wife has a J-Frame and she shoots it just fine (she is not an expert). She did complain about the sights because she could not aquire a sight picture quickly. I added some Crimson Trace laser grips and now she is good.

Having said that, until you can get the gun you want you need to train with the gun you have. And frankly, the one you have is a fine gun. Don't listen to comments about recoil and then become concerned about it without having fired the gun; a lot! As has been said before, if it requires an expert, then become an expert.

The Lone Haranguer
October 3, 2011, 07:16 PM
I have heard now more than once that the M36/J frame is an "experts" gun, not one to be used by a novice.
I had not thought of it that way, but there may be some truth to that, because this is a difficult type of handgun to shoot well. I no longer even own any small-frame revolvers.

royal barnes
October 3, 2011, 07:35 PM
I prefer to carry one of my Colt 1911's but my back issues are forcing me to carry one of my J frames most of the time. I am comfortable carrying one and have put many rounds down range over the years especially when I carried one as a backup to my service weapon. They are more difficult to shoot but can be mastered by most anyone. I shoot Federal Nyclad 125's in both my Smith 340M&P and my 60 No Dash. If I were forced to choose only one handgun for everyday carry it would be the Smith 340M&P in my right front pants pocket with a couple of speed strips in the right rear.

October 4, 2011, 08:33 AM
You will always find nay-sayers. Especially if they are not proficient with the gun in question.

One of my first guns was an S&W J frame Model 60. I guess somebody forgot to tell me I wasn't supposed to be accurate with it. I've carried, shot and qualified with a J frame since the late 70s. I've carried a J Frame as a back-up, off duty and duty weapon throughout my career.

My hands are not on the large side (not tiny either) and I have never had a problem with the factory grips. They are great for carrying the gun concealed. I have used a Tyler T grip in the past. Shooters with larger hands have the option of after market grips.

Got a J frame. Shoot and enjoy it ~ maybe you are an expert and don't know it.

October 14, 2011, 07:46 PM
Got it out to the range today. Fired 53 total rounds. It has been two hours since packing everything up and my wrist is about 15% rounder, not a good sign.

Pretty uneventful and fun. Figured I would do SA first so I could get used to recoil then do DA. First shot was a surprise, trigger felt like the breaking glass I hear about. Hit the line on grid 4-1 of the first picture. The rest played out as shown. You can see how I walked up the holes as I went through the 20 rounds. I think I would have done better if I was using more consistent ammunition. These were all reloads of unknown weight bullet and powders (inside boxes of 148g WC like David mentioned above, sigh)...

Second shot is my attempt at DA. Same breaking glass feel and the trigger was heavy at initial pull that got lighter as I got closer to firing. These were a bit more spread out (fatigue and the target was also smaller) and because of what the SA sheet showed me, I was aiming at 2" above center. I did shoot some of the SD/HD rounds I had and their performance was a lot more consistent. The last round of the day got me within 1/2 inch of where I was aiming, but the recoil made my wrist sound like a bowl of rice crispies...snap, crackle and pop! It is still popping after 2+ hours.

Any thoughts on what you all think I can do to shrink those groups? I plan to go through at least one more box before I make my final decision on keeping the gun or not. I would hate to have an intruder and after the first shot, my wrist be dislocated (which has happened on a similar Model 36 using +P loads). I might be forced to go with a .22...

David E
October 14, 2011, 08:05 PM

Post a pic of your gun. Different grips should help.

Don't shoot reloads of unknown make up.

Buy some FACTORY 148 grain target wadcutters. (not 158 grain semi-wadcutters. Totally different load)

Perhaps post a pic of you holding the gun. Maybe there's something in your technique we can address.

Glad you took it out!

October 14, 2011, 08:20 PM
Sorry, distance was 10 yards. I will get a pic of the pistol after I clean it, some of those loads were smokey... I will try an take a self portrait holding the gun. A couple of the guys at the range didn't see me doing anything adversely wrong at least in my stance, one guy said to rigid, but with my back, I don't know how much more loose I can go without falling over. LOL!

David E
October 14, 2011, 09:30 PM
Those groups at 10 yds firing a snub for the first time aren't bad at all.

As you know, shooting is kind of a macho thing.....EVERYBODY can shoot great....just don't ask them to actually show you with live ammo.

When I teach, I always demo for the student(s) so they know:

1) what I'm asking them to do IS possible.

2) what it should look and sound like.

3) that _I_ can do exactly what I'm teaching them to do.

October 14, 2011, 11:28 PM
I have gone into this knowing that I pretty much know nothing and want to learn as much as I can. When shooting I pretty much checked my ego at the door.

David E
October 15, 2011, 12:40 AM
But I bet those guys at the range didn't!

October 15, 2011, 02:40 AM
Yeah, there were a few who were talking a ton of smack. It was funny and annoying. Granted the 6-foot muzzle flame was cool. Very hot loads in their AR15s.

Will get those pics hopefully this weekend.

October 15, 2011, 02:59 AM
Any thoughts on what you all think I can do to shrink those groups? I plan to go through at least one more box before I make my final decision on keeping the gun or not. I would hate to have an intruder and after the first shot, my wrist be dislocated (which has happened on a similar Model 36 using +P loads). I might be forced to go with a .22...

A heavier revolver would reduce the recoil and likely be easier on your wrists. I'd try that before stepping down to a .22.

Try a S&W K-frame. You can switch out the grips to find what works best for you. My guess would be one of the Pachmyers with the exposed backstrap.

A J frame is not the gun I'd recommend for someone with wrist issues like you have.

David E
October 15, 2011, 10:53 AM
But since he already HAS the J-frame, let's try and make that work, first.

M2 Carbine
October 15, 2011, 12:23 PM
I have heard now more than once that the M36/J frame is an "experts" gun, not one to be used by a novice.
I don't agree.
Neither does this young lady that is shooting the J Frame, while on the move, about an hour after the FIRST TIME she had ever touched a gun.

This is her target. While moving right, left, and backward, almost all shots were COM. She missed one shot over the shoulder and got two near miss in the shoulder and head.
I then told the girl, "Now you must put five shots in the head while standing still, at ten yards. Single action or double action, your choice".
She shot SA and made a smiley face with the five shots.:)

Usually the 2-3 inch J Frame is the second gun I have new shooters use.
They don't know that the J Frame is "an expert's gun" so they usually do very well with it. (rocking target)

I told these couple shooters, "You are making this shooting stuff look too easy, shoot with your left hand for a while". So they did.:)

The shooters generally like the 3 inch barrel over the 2 inch because the three inch sights are larger.
And BTW, I give friends and new shooters the ammo that they shoot at my place and the 38 Special is full load, not "target loads". The secret is to have hand filling grips on the little J Frames and they can shoot it all day with no discomfort.

A couple more new shooters that don't think the J Frame is only for experts.

Rollis R. Karvellis
October 15, 2011, 02:06 PM
You obviously can put the lead were it needs to be, so getting a K frame might be a good ideal for prolonged sections, and run a few cylinders at the end of the day. This will allow you to develop your skills without doing damage to your joints. Then practice as much as practical. Don't be afraid to start stretching your distance. Good sight, and trigger control is the most important part of being accurate. As far as range ninjas go, most of them are harmless, and mabey even fun. You will figure out the losers soon enough.

Hondo 60
October 15, 2011, 09:48 PM

As a reloader, I would definitely NOT recommend shooting someone else's reloads, unless you trust them implicitly.
There are just too many things that can & will go wrong.

Also, I've found that using lead projectiles kicks harder than jacketed or plated.
The reason being that lead is .001" larger than plated or jacketed.
(One of the many things I've learned since I started reloading)

Also, I've learned that you can tailor the ammo to your gun by reloading.
A very fast powder like Tite Group works WONDERFULLY in .38 spl.
It produces a very soft recoil.

Please stay safe & good luck!

October 15, 2011, 10:56 PM
Sorry, distance was 10 yards. I will get a pic of the pistol after I clean it, some of those loads were smokey... I will try an take a self portrait holding the gun. A couple of the guys at the range didn't see me doing anything adversely wrong at least in my stance, one guy said to rigid, but with my back, I don't know how much more loose I can go without falling over. LOL!
If you were at the GunRoom don't pay them any attention...I've only found a couple of the staff there who know what they are talking about and don't pay much mind to the customers other than to watch their muzzles and aiming habits.

We're in the same town. If you're interested we can meet up and I'll check your stance and grip. I instruct, but no charge for the initial consult. Drop me a PM if you are interested.

I remember hearing about the J-frame being an experts gun too. I think it was in a magazine in an article by Mas Ayoob...hard to remember, it was 40 years ago. The reference meant that it isn't a good platform on which to learn to shoot a revolver. And he's was correct, it is one of the hardest to learn correct technique on. Besides the small grip frame, you also have to contend with the lack of mass and the coil spring geometry.

The J-frame is a popular first gun because of it's small size and feel in the hand. How a gun feels in your hand is a bit overrated as to it's function

October 15, 2011, 11:01 PM
But since he already HAS the J-frame, let's try and make that work, first.

Yeah, but he's already talking about giving it up for a .22 because of his wrist issues.

It sounds like it's not so much a "learning to shoot a J frame well" issue for him as it is a "I have wrist issues and the J frame is beating up my wrists" issue.

So, if he gives up on the J frame because its battering his wrists, I just think he should try a K frame (or even, horror, a semi-auto) before downgrading to a .22.

October 15, 2011, 11:10 PM
The ammo that really hurt was the 125g hollow point. I felt the recoil all the way to my elbow. From what my grandfather told me, those rounds were carry rounds specifically taylored for ATF agents. (my grandparents were neighbors to an agent, he provided the ammo). The reloads were bought at a local shop and were in boxes stating 148g bullets. Being reloads and the shop closed, not sure...

I am considering trading for a M15, I am a revolver fan 100%. Bottom feeders do nothing for me.

As a side note, the HP hit a broken piece of clay at the 50 yard line. Was cool seeing it explode and the 4" crater in the dirt.

October 15, 2011, 11:54 PM
they make 95 grain lead round nosed bullets that fit in .38 cases. Put a light load of Bullseye behind one of those, and you'll have no need of trying to shoot a .22 instead of your .38.

That said, the K Frame is a more friendly size due to its greater mass. I have wrist issues, not quite like yours, but I feel your pain. I don't shoot +p in my 642, I shoot light 125 or 158 grain lead loads, and carry standard velocity 125 grain hollow points in it. Recoil is light and manageable.

If you like the size of the mod 36, then you can try to make it work with lighter loads of known provenance, or you could go for a j-frame .32 or .22. You have to work with the realities of your physical limitations.

October 16, 2011, 11:34 AM
The J's can be shot well with practice and if one can catch a snubby class - it will make a world of difference.

Here's a review of a great one by Claude Werner (I took it and wrote it up for Concealed Carry) but another participant posted his:


Like any pistol - a little practice and training and you can be good to go.

It's a good choice for an EDC and would work for HD also.

Nice pictures of TX shooting, M2Carbine! I had my daughter out shooting a Colt Cobra snubby and she put her target on her frig! I should have taken pictures of her - sigh!

David E
October 16, 2011, 11:44 AM
It sounds like it's not so much a "learning to shoot a J frame well" issue for him as it is a "I have wrist issues and the J frame is beating up my wrists" issue.

I read it as a stocks/ammo issue.

With Pachmayers and factory 148 wadcutters (not unknown reloads in a 148 wadcutter box, or shooting more powerful ammo he was specifically advised against doing) and learning proper technique from 9mmEpiphany, this should resolve his wrist issues.

If not, THEN it's time to consider other guns, like a 2" or 4" Model 15, fitted with proper grips.

October 16, 2011, 10:12 PM
None of the people at the range thought my stance was bad at all (including the RO who said he was a retired NRA pistol instructor). My stance looks similar to the pics that M2 Carbine posted. My wrist is still tight, but no longer hurts like I had been hammering all day. I plan to make one more range trip before making a decision. I have seen two K-frames (10 with a 4" heavy barrel, and a 15 with a 5.5" or 6" pencil barrel (may be a heavy barrel, didn't get to look at it closely)) that I am interested in. I had an old Victory Model (wasn't .38 Spcl though) that I loved the feel of.

just for fun
October 16, 2011, 10:27 PM
First gun I owned and still have is model 36. Bought it new in 68. Paid $68 for it (half down rest due in 90 days! As a E-3 there wasn't alot of extra money laying around in those days and many a weekend was spent shooting reloads thru that little gun, to the point I'd bet my buddies I could hit anything they could out to 25 yds. Won more that I lost with that gun! (young eyes) Oh, my wife went shooting with me in those days and we split the box of reloads. Tampa police range $2 a box +$1 for the brass (refundable). On weekends I got paid from my part time job we'd get TWO boxes! The rest of the time just one please. There was an older guy that worked weekends, sometimes he would give us a FREE box! Always with the same advice- "you kids be careful" KIDS? I was in the Air Force and 21, she had a full time job and was 20! We were grown! Just ask us. Great memories and a great gun.

David E
October 16, 2011, 11:30 PM
I don't want to criticize other stances, but it would behoove you to take up 9mmEpiphany's generous offer. You'll save yourself a lot of time, aggravation and wrist pain if you did.

9mmE knows his stuff, so give him a PM and arrange it.

October 17, 2011, 12:28 AM
Will hit him up next time I have the opportunity to go out.

Al Thompson
October 21, 2011, 09:58 AM
9mmE knows his stuff, so give him a PM and arrange it.

Excellent advice. :cool:

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