Neck sizing question


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coloradokevin
October 3, 2011, 02:12 AM
For those of you who neck size your rifle brass, do you find that you eventually need to run your brass through a full-length sizing die? If so, how do you know when to take this extra step, and/or how many firings does it usually take before you run it through a FL sizing die?

I'm relatively new to the neck sizing side of reloading, and have been running my .308 brass through a Lee neck sizing die for almost a year now. I've fired about 300 rounds that were loaded from neck sized brass, and some of my brass is now approaching the 5th-6th loading.

During a recent match I noticed that I was having more difficulty than usual with shutting the bolt as I cycled each round. The bolt still lifted easily after firing, and extracted the fired case without a problem. But, I've been starting to wonder if the brass has just been fired to the point that I need to full-length size it, or if I have something else going on?

The brass shows no pressure signs, and I'm using the same load I've used for over a year now. Also, the brass has no other obvious signs of imminent failure, etc. I trim after each firing, and measure each piece as I load (this is my match ammo).

My suspicion is that the case shoulder has pushed forward a bit from use, but I'm not really sure how to confirm this, and running a FL resize seems (intuitively, at least) like the most logical solution.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY ADVICE!

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steve4102
October 3, 2011, 08:07 AM
noticed that I was having more difficulty than usual with shutting the bolt as I cycled each round.

This is your answer. ^^
Or you can keep track of how much headspace you have after each firing with a Hornady gauge.

OldmanFCSA
October 3, 2011, 08:13 AM
Do you "anneal" your brass? If yes, how often?

And YES, it is common to Full-Length re-size after about 5 reloadings.

In our 50BMG reloadings, we have found it works best to full-length resize each time, as long as extreme care is taken to ensure bullet is presented to bore of rifle with least amount of run-out possible. We do this with Bore-Riders or Semi-Bore-Riders, where head of case is properly centered in chamber and bore-riding band of bullet is in or very near rifling. No other part of the case makes contact with the chamber. Of course, paying strict attention to all the other details for case preparations will further enhance your capability to shoot minimal groupings.
HOWEVER, there is no greater enhancement to shooting accurately than getting TRIGGER TIME.
Most guns are far more accurate than the nut behind it. (Typical cause for poor shooting by me is "excessive headspace" between the ears.)

ranger335v
October 3, 2011, 08:46 AM
"My suspicion is that the case shoulder has pushed forward a bit from use, but I'm not really sure how to confirm this, "

Your suspection is correct and tight chambering is all the confirmation you gonna get.

There is NO fixed number of cycles to tell you when this will suddenly occur.

Walkalong
October 3, 2011, 09:48 AM
Your suspection is correct and tight chambering is all the confirmation you gonna get.

There is NO fixed number of cycles to tell you when this will suddenly occur.Yep. :)

Funshooter45
October 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
You might get 2-3 neck sizings before having to FL size, or you might get 8-10. It depends on the cartridge, the load levels, the brand of brass and who knows what else. 5 neck sizings seems to be a pretty average normal number though. As soon as it gets a little difficult to chamber, it's time to grab the FL sizer.

bigedp51
October 3, 2011, 02:39 PM
coloradokevin

After I got out of the military in 1973 I wanted to make up for lost time hunting and shooting. The first rifle I bought was a Remington 760 Gamemaster and a Lee Loader. The third time I neck sized my cases with the Lee Loader and fired them, the cases would not eject until 10 to 20 seconds after firing and the cases cooled down in the chamber.

That night I bought a RCBS Rockchucker press and full length resizing dies, and I now have both neck sizing dies and full length dies for all my rifles.

One word of warning on shooting tight fitting neck sized only cases........

Lube your bolt lugs, the additional friction can cause wear and even galling on your lugs and receiver lug recesses. ;)

p5200
October 3, 2011, 03:59 PM
I've been using these for checking casings. being fairly new to reloading, they make me feel a little safer. They come in lots of calibers. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004488340

sugarmaker
October 3, 2011, 05:48 PM
I've had luck with a Lee collet / redding body combination, set the body die to do a .002 setback. My rifles do as well with this combo as they do with neck sizing and I never have trouble chambering.

gamestalker
October 3, 2011, 07:47 PM
When you feel excessive resistence while closing the bolt it's time to bump the shoulders back a little bit. I do this by taking a lubed case and running it thorugh the FL die but with the die adjusted to where it doesn't quite touch the shell holder. Then I test chamber it, and move the die down a bit more if I'm still running into the shoulder, then lube and size again until it's bumped enough.

Generally I'll get about 5 or 6 neck sizings before I bump. There are exact methods of determining how much the shoulder needs to be pushed back, but this has worked fine for me for a long time.

coloradokevin
October 3, 2011, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the info everyone! I guess it means that it is time to lube up these cases and run the full length sizer for a while!

Incidentally, I'm currently using Remington brass, I haven't annealed it, and I'm running a 175 SMK bullet with 44.4 grains of Varget powder. Seating is to maximum magazine length, which is right around 2.810" on my rifle. I double checked and it looks like this issue occurred while chambering the round for its 5th firing (didn't happen with all pieces, just a number of them).

bigedp51
October 4, 2011, 01:08 AM
Make sure you adjust your full length dies to only push the shoulder back .001 to .002, your cases will last longer and you will reduce the chances of case head separations.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201055522PM.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201054345PM.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201054719PM.jpg

quartermaster
October 23, 2011, 10:10 AM
Suggest buying a set of the Hornady headspace guages. They are very cheap ande save time by not having to keep trying to keep chambering rounds in your rifle They also make a bullet comparator setup which is also cheap and utilizes the same componant which is fastened to your calipers. This will help when seating bullets to get the same measurement to the olgive of your bullet and eliminate measuring the oal on lead or damaged plastic tips

fguffey
October 23, 2011, 11:08 AM
You go to the range, set-up, chamber a round and find it difficult to chamber, or it chambers with resistance to bolt closing, how is that possible? How insane is that? To me that is one very bad habit you need to correct! Chambering an 8mm57 in a 30/06 has all of the warning signs you just mentioned, the 8mm57 will chamber with resistance to bolt closing, the cause? Part of the neck requires partial sizing when chambered, same when fire forming 30/06 cases to 30/06 Ackley improved. Then there was this shooter that offered to zero a rifle for his friend, he purchased 308 W ammo for his friends 25/06, right up to the point he pulled the trigger the ammo and the rifle gave him a small indication something was not correct, the bolt closed with slight resistance. That was all the warning he got, and he blamed the ammo and the manufacturer of the rifle.

Bad habits are perpetuated by short answers on the Internet.

"During a recent match I noticed that I was having more difficulty than usual with shutting the bolt as I cycled each round"

"Recent match" ?, something not understood by reloaders is 'time is a factor', especially when 'during a match' is applied to reloading and resistance to extraction and chambering, for those that shoot for accuracy and use cases that have been fired so many times they no longer grow due to work hardening must understand the case can not/must not be sized or allowed to be fired in a chamber without support.

Again, I determine the length of the chamber first, then form cases for that chamber, it saves me a trip to the firing range, and if you look at all the support tools you are being offered for a price think of all the money I save.

F. Guffey

gamestalker
October 23, 2011, 11:49 AM
I just recently experienced reaching the limits on some 7mm RM brass. They chambered, but really tight, so I thought as long as the bolt will close I could go one more cycle before having to push the shoulder's back. But the result was my brass had premature failure.

My advice, is when you feel some unusual resistence such that it requires more effort than usual it's time to run them through the FL die. But if you want your brass to last as long as is possible, only adjust the die down enough to allow the brass to chamber without the resistence felt by the head and shoulder bottoming out, or if you have the gage to measure with, about .002" should do the job.

bigedp51
October 23, 2011, 07:34 PM
gamestalker

Your cases had case head separations because they stretched on the first firing and you didn't fire-form them properly. When you have case head separations and your are neck sizing only this should tell you something.

murf
October 24, 2011, 01:58 AM
suggest you visit riflemansjournal.blogspot.com. there is an august 2009 article on case headspace that might interest you.

murf

gamestalker
October 24, 2011, 02:46 AM
Bigedp51, no they didn't. Those cases had been fire formed at least 6 or 7 times using stout charges of RL22 and only necked up until the session they failed.

I think this topic has been over stated, now we are just beating a dead horse. Enough said.

bigedp51
October 24, 2011, 03:29 AM
gamestalker

You don't fireform a cartridge 6 or 7 times, you fireform the cartridge the first time it is fired and keep it from stretching in the base web area.

If the case doesn't stretch and thin you will not have a case head separation caused by a weak thin area in the case.

Your cases fell apart because of stretching and thinning which caused your case head separations. Its like a tire, you had a blowout from improper inflation and the tire let go.

Now look at the animated images again below, if you do not allow the case to stretch you will not have case head separations.

The red and yellow areas below show the high stress areas of the case as it stretches to meet the bolt face.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/deform.gif

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/f55-movie-dsf1.gif

If you do not allow the case to stretch on the first firing and allow no more than .002 head clearance after resizing the case will not have case head separations

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacestretch-1.gif

After the case is fireformed the case will headspace on the shoulder and as long as you have no more than .002 head clearance the case can not stretch.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/fireformed-zeroheadspace.jpg

There are severial methods of fireforming cases, and what you need to do is Google fireforming cartridge cases.

The simplest method is to load the bullet long so the case headspaces on the bullet ogive. The bullet must be seated hard against the lands, with plenty of neck tension.

Walkalong
October 24, 2011, 07:45 AM
Which keeps the case head against the breech so stretching does not occur. As posted, there are two keys, hard into the lands, and lots of neck tension. Use a full load.

Another trick is greasing cases, but it puts a lot of stress on bolt lugs, a whole lot. I don't recommend it.

fguffey
October 24, 2011, 02:32 PM
http://www.odcmp.org/1101/can.pdf

F. Guffey

fguffey
October 24, 2011, 02:35 PM
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3754346.150.html

F. Guffey

fguffey
October 24, 2011, 04:10 PM
Then there is “Hatcher said”. Hatcher moved the shoulder forward .080 thousands, he chambered a round, pulled the trigger and ? nothing but a bang, he anticipated the case head would have insipient case head separation, instead Hatcher became a fire former, the cases, when fired in his new creation were ejected as 30/06 Hatcher +.080 Modified cases, it hung him up.

I have chambered 8mm57 ammo in an 8mm06 chamber, pulled the trigger and nothing but a bang, no case stretch, no case head separation, no insipient case head separation, cases after firing were ejected as 8mm06 cases with very short necks, when an 8mm57 is fired in an 8mm/06 chamber there is .127 head space, the primer, case, powder and primer did not accelerate to a speed sufficient to out run the firing pin, the firing pin crushed the primer before the case, powder and bullet knew their little buddy, the primer, was crushed.

F. Guffey

bigedp51
October 24, 2011, 05:33 PM
fguffey

Then there is “Hatcher said”. Hatcher moved the shoulder forward .080 thousands, he chambered a round, pulled the trigger and ? nothing but a bang, he anticipated the case head would have insipient case head separation, instead Hatcher became a fire former, the cases, when fired in his new creation were ejected as 30/06 Hatcher +.080 Modified cases, it hung him up.

Hatcher was shooting a rifle with a Mauser type claw extractor and the claw extractor held the case against the bolt face. He kept reaming the chamber increasing headspace and was surprised he didn't have any case head separations. What this means is the light bulb didn't come on when Hatcher was conducting this experiment. What this means is Hatcher screwed up and started a myth that goes on to this day. And if someone quotes Hatcher on this headspace subject it means they aren't thinking either. :eek:



The 7.62 NATO cartridge below was fired in a 30-06 with a half inch of excess headspace when the 7.62 NATO is chambered. Now look at the center case in the photo below, the amount the primer is protruding is the head clearance or excess headspace. The primer can only back out of the primer pocket as far as the bolt face will allow it.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/762-30-06.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/762natoin3006.jpg

Bottom line, if your rifle doesn't have a Mauser type claw extractor your cases can stretch further to meet the bolt face. ;) So much for "fire former" theory and quoting Hatcher. :rolleyes:

My Enfield rifles do not have a Mauser type claw extractor and have throat erosion from Cordite powder which prevents seating your bullets long. I said the heck with Hatcher and put a rubber o-ring around my .303 cases and the rubber o-ring holds the case firmly against the bolt face. A .303 case with .058 rim thickness can have .016 head clearance and the o-ring reduces this to zero. ;)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacestretch_frame_0001.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP5096.jpg

You can even have fun fireforming cases shooting .312 pistol bullets with Trail Boss. :D

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP4691.jpg

fguffey
October 24, 2011, 07:13 PM
“The 7.62 NATO cartridge below was fired in a 30-06 with a half inch of excess headspace when the 7.62 NATO is chambered. Now look at the center case in the photo below, the amount the primer is protruding is the head clearance or excess headspace. The primer can only back out of the primer pocket as far as the bolt face will allow it”

The 308W/7.62 NATO you claim was fired in a 30/06 chamber never happened. The 7.62 when fired in a 30/06 has .000 head space, the 308 W is not a drop in case for the 30/06 chamber, the diameter of the 308W/7.62 NATO is larger in diameter by .011 thousands at the shoulder than the 30/06 chamber at the same juncture, for those that have 30/06 chambers that will allow a 308 to chamber with out resistance should measure their chamber diameter.

And it started when a smith decided to chamber a 308 W chamber to 30/06. after test firing his new creation he discovered the 30/06 reamer did not clean all of the old chamber, the case when ejected had a ring around the case at the 308W shoulder juncture.

F. Guffey

bigedp51
October 24, 2011, 07:44 PM
Your forgetting something fguffey, something really major, the Army ran tests firing the 7.62 NATO from the M1 with and "without" the chamber plug. And the M1 fired the 7.62 without any problems, I suppose now your going to say the military never fitted the M1 with a chamber plug as a means to use the M1 while transitioning to the M14 and the 7.62 NATO cartridge.

Looks like your going to need some REALLY big feeler gages there fguffey. :eek:

fguffey
October 24, 2011, 09:45 PM
You said:

“The 7.62 NATO cartridge below was fired in a 30-06 with a half inch of excess headspace when the 7.62 NATO is chambered. Now look at the center case in the photo below, the amount the primer is protruding is the head clearance or excess headspace. The primer can only back out of the primer pocket as far as the bolt face will allow it” One more time, that can not happen. You do not need to change the your for most that information is less than nice to know.

I do not have to measure or make another gage, both the 30/06 and 7.62 are cylinders with a taper, the taper on the cone gives both cases varying diameters, the further the 7.62 is driven into the 30/06 chamber the more difficult it becomes to drive the case further into the chamber. Dick Culver, while shooting a match at Perry, loaded a clip of 308 W/7.62 in an M1, accuracy did not suffer, others were surprised the M1 Would chamber the short tight fitting 7.62.

What I will say is you have a ton of gigs in pictures stating the 7.62 when fired in the 30/06 chamber has .50 thousands head space, not trying to hurt your feelings, not trying to insult you, in my opinion that is not possible, I will say I believe you make some of this stuff up, I have been involved in removing inserts, and, that is when the gages come out as when the smith chambered the 7.62/308W to 30/06, again, the 30/06 reamer will not clean up the 308 W chamber (now you know that). After removing the insert a good option is the 30/06 Ackley Improved chamber, my favorite reamer for the 308W/7.62 chamber is the 30 Gibbs, it does not miss anything when removing the old chamber.


now tell me? You thought the 30/06 chamber was modified with an insert THEN a 308 W/7.62 was chambered and fired??? and I just informed you there was not enough room in the 30/06 for the 7.62/308W.

F. Guffey

bigedp51
October 25, 2011, 02:16 AM
fguffey

Are you on drugs, in one sentence you say:

"Dick Culver, while shooting a match at Perry, loaded a clip of 308 W/7.62 in an M1, accuracy did not suffer, others were surprised the M1 Would chamber the short tight fitting 7.62."

And then you say:

"now tell me? You thought the 30/06 chamber was modified with an insert THEN a 308 W/7.62 was chambered and fired??? and I just informed you there was not enough room in the 30/06 for the 7.62/308W."

The photos I posted are the 7.62 NATO cartridges Dick Culver fired in his M1 Garand.

fguffey you do not know what your are talking about. :rolleyes: And your talking in circles and contradicting yourself in your confusion. :eek:

fguffey
October 25, 2011, 10:38 AM
Ed, have you no pride?

No matter how slow I type, after hitting post, it all comes out at the speed when posted. I will assume you do not have a 308 case, 30/06 case, chamber for the 30/06 or the 308 W, and I will assume you do not have a micrometer.

To chamber a 308 W round in a 30/06 chamber the 308W/7.62NATO must be sized down with felt resistance to bolt closing, again, the 308 W is not a drop-in for the 30/06 chamber. Caution: If the 308 W case will drop into a 30/06 chamber the 30/06 chamber is at least .011 thousands larger in diameter at the 308W shoulder juncture than SAMMIE recommends.

And if it was not for your big ego you could have given Dick Culver credit for the pictures. Not my problem, not Dick Culver's problem, no one is to blame but you, and I blame those that have micrometers, chambers and cases (or those that claim they have the tools and skills)that are too lazy to step away from the computer to do the research. There are a few that work in the claims department and claim they are reloaderes, for them the Internet is a social event.

F. Guffey

bigedp51
October 25, 2011, 04:38 PM
fguffey

I did my research a long time ago, I have seen a .308 fired in a 30-06, its not research looking at a book, its experience holding the case in my hands.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7241.jpg

JDGray
October 25, 2011, 06:08 PM
You go to the range, set-up, chamber a round and find it difficult to chamber, or it chambers with resistance to bolt closing, how is that possible? How insane is that? To me that is one very bad habit you need to correct! Chambering an 8mm57 in a 30/06 has all of the warning signs you just mentioned, the 8mm57 will chamber with resistance to bolt closing, the cause? Part of the neck requires partial sizing when chambered, same when fire forming 30/06 cases to 30/06 Ackley improved. Then there was this shooter that offered to zero a rifle for his friend, he purchased 308 W ammo for his friends 25/06, right up to the point he pulled the trigger the ammo and the rifle gave him a small indication something was not correct, the bolt closed with slight resistance. That was all the warning he got, and he blamed the ammo and the manufacturer of the rifle.


The OPs question was pretty cut and dry, why assume he mixed in some other caliber? He may only have one rifle for all we know. His question was answered pretty well by time you chimed in, and yes the op must be insane:rolleyes:

bigedp51
October 25, 2011, 08:33 PM
On top of this the OP hasn't been back since the 11th posting and missed 47 chapters of fguffey's
"War and Piece" novel on headspace, Hatcher and other unrelated nonsensical ramblings. :rolleyes:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/icon135.gif

quartermaster
October 26, 2011, 06:37 AM
A few years ago I had a problem with the 7 mag cases not chambering also. I thought that it was due to not toally FL sizing, but in doing so the problem still persisted. I had loaded these setting back the shoulders 002 3 or 4 times and then FL sized them. I happened to stumble across a website that Larry Willis has and purhased his collet die for belted magnums. His claim is that even with a FL sizing die, the case doesn't get sized immediately above the belt.

His die is a bit time comsuming to use as you have to FL size with a regular die and then smear imperial sizing wax on the case and use his collet die. I found that measuring just above the belt that some of my cases were .512 or larger. his die sizes mine to .508. I haven't had any problems since then. This one die works for almost all belted mags.

Check out his websight. I think you could just google his name or do a search for Innovative Technologies. Pretty clever idea

fguffey
October 26, 2011, 10:01 AM
Ed said:

“its experience holding the case in my hands” Now I am saying Ed. could look at it all day and not know what he is looking for, I am a big fan of measuring before and after. Ed. purchase a reloading manual, look at the specifications for the 308 W and the 30/08, compare the diameter of the shoulder of the 308 W with the diameter of the 30/06 shoulder

Ed has refused to step back from the computer, locate a 30/06 chamber, 308 W/7.62 NATO case, micrometers etc..

The diameter of the case at the shoulder juncture for the 308 W is .454, the diameter of the case for the 30/06 at the shoulder/case juncture is .441, that is .013 thousands difference. AGAIN, how can the 308 W have .050 thousands head space in the 30/06 chamber when the shoulder of the 308 W is being sized into a taper that gets smaller in diameter as the case is being formed/sized. The difference in distance from the bolt face to the shoulder of the 308 W and 30/06 chambers is .388. The 308 W head spaces in the 30/06 chamber at the shoulder/case juncture, the head space of the 308 W when fired in the 30/06 chamber is ZERO.

“I did my research a long time ago, I have seen a .308 fired in a 30-06, its not research looking at a book” Ed. nothing you have claimed gives me a clue you were even there.

F. Guffey

fguffey
October 26, 2011, 10:12 AM
Gamemaster, I purchased a Winchester Model 70 chambered to 300 Win Mag, the chamber was the ugliest I had ever seen, too long, too large in diameter and gouged, we had words, I wanted a chamber that would fit my dies or dies that would fit my their chamber, long story, the rifle went back to Winchester.

F. Guffey

bigedp51
October 26, 2011, 01:24 PM
fguffey

Ed has refused to step back from the computer, locate a 30/06 chamber, 308 W/7.62 NATO case, micrometers etc..

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Picture007.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Picture008.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Picture009.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Picture010.jpg

Fully chambered and its called "experience" and "NOT" looking at drawings. ;)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Picture012.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/762-30-06.jpg

fguffey, just one more question, what size shoe do you wear. :rolleyes: The .308/7.62 is nothing more than a 30-06 case shortened 1/2 of an inch and it "WILL" chamber in a 30-06 without problem.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/footinmouth.jpg

fguffey
October 26, 2011, 01:43 PM
Back to Dick Culver and the 308 W/7.62 NATO rounds he fired in his M1.

There were those that knew the 30/06 reamer would not clean the 308 chamber up because of the larger diameter of the case, for that reason they were surprised the M1 bolt would size the case down enough to chamber the case when it closed.

And again, the body of the 30/06 chamber gets smaller, the only way to get the 308 W case further into the chamber is is work harder.

A suggestion, if you put as much time trying to think as you do being silly I just might take you serious, put this one with your tire gage.

F. Guffey

bigedp51
October 26, 2011, 03:33 PM
fguffey is side stepping, ducking, and changing the subject........again

The .308/7.62 NATO will chamber in a 30-06

You can also buy a chamber insert adapter for the 30-06 to fire the .308 :what:

"Also available in 308/30-06. Each kit includes one tube of Locktite™."

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

"Several years ago, I ordered and installed some of these inserts in bolt action rifles. I converted an '03 Springfield [sporterized] from .30-06 to .308. I still have the Ruger Model 77 converted from .308 to 7.62 X 39. Both have taken deer."

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=121972

Now hows that for being silly. :neener:

jcwit
October 26, 2011, 10:04 PM
Does anyone really care which is correct?

If so lets hear from others.

Otherwise this is just another senseless argument as to who gets the last word.

bigedp51
October 26, 2011, 11:27 PM
jcwit

Does anyone really care which is correct?

If so lets hear from others.

Otherwise this is just another senseless argument as to who gets the last word.

Ain't gonna work dude. (sound familiar its your quote) :rolleyes:

jcwit
October 27, 2011, 01:57 PM
Hope springs eternal!

Now hows that for being silly.

Back atcha! Your quote.

bigedp51
October 27, 2011, 02:42 PM
jcwit
Hope springs eternal!

From all your numerous unsolicited pissy and jurky PMs you've sent me and your uncalled for comments here I can only assume your underwear is too tight and that is causing your major malfunction.
(did you forget to take your meds again) :rolleyes:

Or did you forget freedom of speech and just like being a pain in the backside. "Hope springs eternal" you will just fade into the sunset and find something else to do with your spare time.

There are 7 billion people in the world and your going to have to come to the realization your not the only person in the world who matters. If you do not like a posting don't read it, change the channel and watch Sesame Street and pretend your Big Bird, and not Oscar the grouch.

JohnM
October 27, 2011, 02:47 PM
This is all too much, maybe now a moderator will lock up this train wreck.

jcwit
October 27, 2011, 02:57 PM
This is all too much, maybe now a moderator will lock up this train wreck.

Agreed!

fguffey
October 27, 2011, 03:09 PM
jcwit, I like that, “your quote”

Ed, your quote,

”The 7.62 NATO cartridge below was fired in a 30-06 with a half inch of excess headspace when the 7.62 NATO is chambered. Now look at the center case in the photo below, the amount the primer is protruding is the head clearance or excess headspace. The primer can only back out of the primer pocket as far as the bolt face will allow it”

you did it again,

Your quote:


”fguffey, just one more question, what size shoe do you wear. The .308/7.62 is nothing more than a 30-06 case shortened 1/2 of an inch and it "WILL" chamber in a 30-06 without problem” and I said Dick Culver shot 308 W in his M1 and I said there were those that were surprised the M1 Bolt chambered and sized the case when closing.

I do not know how to get your attention, I do not know if you can focus, you claim in your monument to those that can not follow instructions the 308 W when chambered in a 30/06 chamber has .050 thousands head space. How? I can chamber a 308 W in a 30/06 without a bolt, then with a drift and hammer drive the case into the chamber .050 thousands, that would not be necessary if there was .050 thousands head space.

Ed, I hear you, I can not help you, I am not qualified, all I can do is show sympathy, I am not an enable, in the beginning I thought you believed in what you presented was correct, now I am convinced you do not care.

F. Guffey

bigedp51
October 27, 2011, 04:18 PM
jcwit

When someone disagrees with you in an open forum jcwit and you send hate filled PM messages in response, there isn't any doubt in my mind you have a problem.

If fguffey wants to dance around his comments and cover up his incorrect statements I can't stop him. What I can do is bring attention to the garbage he posts and correct his misinformation.

Below was fguffey reply to the OP neck sizing question, and he did not give any information on how to correct the problem by bumping the shoulder back, all fguffey did was go into a rant and drift off topic. How do you help anyone by telling them they are insane for have a tight fitting neck sized cartridge.

fguffey
You go to the range, set-up, chamber a round and find it difficult to chamber, or it chambers with resistance to bolt closing, how is that possible? How insane is that? To me that is one very bad habit you need to correct!

If this exchange bothers anyone then do not read it and move on to another posting.

TexasRifleman
October 27, 2011, 04:32 PM
This is all too much, maybe now a moderator will lock up this train wreck.

Good idea.

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