S&W Governor .45 ACP


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bikemutt
October 3, 2011, 10:43 AM
I have an opportunity to pick up a Gov for a reasonable price. Just wondering if anyone here owns or has shot one and could share thoughts? Also, will .45 acp ammo headspace without need of moonclips in this gun?

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Sam1911
October 3, 2011, 11:26 AM
I've not fired that model. But I'm sure you know they make the awesome 625 in .45ACP and that's a terrific, practical gun without all the excess useless cylinder length, and which should produce much better accuracy.

bikemutt
October 3, 2011, 11:51 AM
I've not fired that model. But I'm sure you know they make the awesome 625 in .45ACP and that's a terrific, practical gun without all the excess useless cylinder length, and which should produce much better accuracy.
Oh yes, know the 625 well, especially the one in my bedside table's drawer :)

Sam1911
October 3, 2011, 11:54 AM
Ok. Good! Then it seems you have the .45 ACP revolver base covered.

Owen Sparks
October 3, 2011, 12:04 PM
The ability to use moon clips is a tremendous advantage. I doubt you can expect much accuracy out of such long chambers though.

bikemutt
October 3, 2011, 12:39 PM
Ok. Good! Then it seems you have the .45 ACP revolver base covered.
Yes, but there's always room for one more!

A hunting buddy of mine has a Judge which he always packs in the woods, and we've had to use it a couple of times on rattlers. Since I already have several arms chambered for .45 ACP, if I am going to buy this "snake gun", it would be nice to be able to shoot that round as well and not have to also inventory .45LC.

rcmodel
October 3, 2011, 12:50 PM
Also, will .45 acp ammo headspace without need of moonclips in this gun? No.

It would be impossible to have .45 ACP headspace shoulders in the chambers and still get .45 Colt and .410 shotgun shells to fit in it.

rc

bikemutt
October 3, 2011, 12:57 PM
Thanks rcmodel, that makes perfect sense.

Sam1911
October 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
...and we've had to use it a couple of times on rattlers. Was this, "We found a couple of rattlesnakes and decided to kill them?" or more like, "We were in fear for our lives, backed into a corner, nowhere to flee...the beast pawed the ground and CHARGED!!!"? ;)

Seems like if you have to kill a snake for some reason, whatever gun you might have with you for more serious threats would do the job. Don't see much point in a dedicated "snake gun."

bikemutt
October 3, 2011, 01:36 PM
You are right Sam1911, I probably need this gun like I need a hole in the head, lol.

19-3Ben
October 3, 2011, 01:59 PM
^^^ But then, is it ever really about need?
Part of the addiction/sickness is coming up with niches so that you have to buy a gun to fill that niche.

Speaking of which, I think I need an "alternating Tuesdays between the hours of 9:30AM and 11:45AM" gun.

TexAg
October 3, 2011, 02:09 PM
I've read pretty good accuracy reports on the Gov. from actual owners and write ups. I handled one at the gun show this weekend and despite the longer cylinder it is not unbalanced or very unwieldy and the fit and finish appeared quite a bit better than the Judge. A lot of folks poo-poo the .410, however it's still a cheaper priced .45 acp/Colt S&W than you could get otherwise.

rcmodel
October 3, 2011, 02:14 PM
And it holds six instead of five!
That will be very important when the Rattlesnake Apocalypse comes.

And it shoots .45 GAP & .45 ACP too!

rc

bikemutt
October 3, 2011, 05:39 PM
Let me clear up the rattlesnake thing lest I be thought of as a bloodthirsty, wanton, reptile terminator.

Problem is we always have dogs with us, they, unlike us, don't see the need to give a venomous snake a wide berth. In fact, quite often they view it as quarry. I have come within 10 minutes (according to the vet) of losing a very expensive dog to a rattlesnake; $640 worth of anti-venom later the hound survived. And that darn dog still had no respect for them.

It is true that nowadays with rattlesnake vaccine, it is less likely a dog will die from it, they will still get quite sick and can die.

I can say with certainty, I will only dispatch a rattler if it's an immediate threat to me or my dog.

rcmodel
October 3, 2011, 05:47 PM
+1

I blew a copperhead to hell with a CCI shot a couple of years ago, just about a second before my Boxer jumped straddle of it.

And I grew up on a farm in Kansas that had rattlesnakes in the barn, in new hay bales when you loaded them on a wagon, on the back steps sunning themselves when you went out the door in the morning, etc, etc.

My dad got bit while plowing a field, and our neighbor got bit when he got out of bed one morning.

Around me, the only good snake is a dead snake, until proven it isn't poisonous.
And even then, it is treading, no make that crawling on thin ice.

rc

Fat_46
October 3, 2011, 07:40 PM
Bikemutt - I firmly believe that you NEED another revolver chambered in 45ACP. I have a 625PC, a 325PD that is my EDC, and am waiting to take delivery of my Governor. For gun nuts, the moon clip isn't rare or special, but I absolutely love the look on people's faces at the range when I reload a revolver faster than they swap clips on their autos!

Now if someone would make a 410 moonclip...

bikemutt
October 3, 2011, 08:13 PM
Bikemutt - I firmly believe that you NEED another revolver chambered in 45ACP. I have a 625PC, a 325PD that is my EDC, and am waiting to take delivery of my Governor. For gun nuts, the moon clip isn't rare or special, but I absolutely love the look on people's faces at the range when I reload a revolver faster than they swap clips on their autos!

Now if someone would make a 410 moonclip...
Darn you Fat_46, I had just quit thinking about that Governor, I hope it's sold tomorrow, and not to me. I may need a doctor, the disease has moved faster than I thought.

RX-178
October 3, 2011, 08:48 PM
Don't anyone take my word for this, because even coming from me it's second hand, but:

A few of my buddies that own Taurus Judges swear up and down they'll fit moonclips, and fire .45 ACP without any modifications to the cylinder. Not actually owning one myself, I have no idea.

I'm thinking a Taurus Raging Judge might be an interesting gun to have, considering I don't have the safe space left for a .454 AND a .410. If/when I get one I'll be sure to do a thorough range report on that.

DaveShooter
October 3, 2011, 09:57 PM
I love my S&W GOV- It shoots great. Real accurate too. No problem with extra cylinder length in 45acp. I had groups unreal with 45acp and other 410 ammo. I know I wouldn't want to take a hit from it for sure..... I carry it everyday on the trail I walk..... I've had Taurus before S&W Gov puts Taurus to shame......

sw282
October 3, 2011, 10:34 PM
l carry 45acp shot shells in my 45s at times

Remington 45 ACP Shot Lokt shot cartridge. 650 #12 shot.

788Ham
October 4, 2011, 12:52 AM
rc,

My mom's family farmed in Syracuse, the far West part of the state, they always had snakes around. Her brothers all carried .410's on the tractors, don't know about the 45's, but the 410's smack them pretty good.

wlewisiii
October 4, 2011, 12:57 AM
Last Friday I watched two guys shoot a Governor. They used all three types of ammo and where shooting from 10 yards at a 24" round target. They had a hard time keeping it in the circles and, some of the time, on the paper. High and left consistantly.

I had also watched them both shoot a 1911 clone from 25 yards before this. Let's simply say they both at least knew how to shoot.

While I did not shoot the firearm myself, I saw nothing that would make me want to and went back to shooting my S&W Model 10 & Model 642 instead.

Stainz
October 4, 2011, 08:29 AM
I bought my Governor June 13th - mainly for one reason. It is a cheaper version of the 325 Night Guard! Yeah, it's a little longer - and ~1.5 oz heavier - with it's longer cylinder. But - it has the Al/Sc frame, Tritium Night Sight on front and fixed rear, and can take the same moonclipped .45 ACPs my 625JM, my only other .45 ACP revolver - and I keep 240+ moonclips loaded with ball ammo. UMC bulk pack ball ammo stays within a 3" circle at 7 yd - mostly so at 12 yd. My 250gr GDJHP loads in .45 Colt are slightly tighter. The .45 ACP ball ammo drops the steel plate tie-breaker with authority - after the first five ping the plates.

Oh... the $ savings over the 325NG, locally $899, is significant - I paid $579 + s/t for my Governor! Yeah, I finally own a 'shotgun' of sorts, too.

Stainz

bikemutt
October 4, 2011, 10:02 AM
Apparently the Gov is near impossible to get right now.

My FFL said, for him anyway, "unobtainium". If he could get one, $725 out the door.

The "used" one I could get for $660 OTD.

Even at Stainz PRICE OF $579 I'd be over $700 with s&h, sales tax and FFL transfer fee.

TexAg
October 4, 2011, 11:00 AM
There are quite a few listed on gunbroker and if you buy out of state you don't have to worry about sales tax. I saw ONE at the Ft. Worth gun show with laser $799.

bikemutt
October 4, 2011, 11:30 AM
There are quite a few listed on gunbroker and if you buy out of state you don't have to worry about sales tax. I saw ONE at the Ft. Worth gun show with laser $799.
Washington got wise about the sales tax thing a while back: they require the FFL to collect and remit the "use" tax at the time of the transfer, 9.5% where I live.

Besides, being a self-employed registered business in the state, avoiding sales tax is a sure way to lose an audit from the revenue department.

I usually add $35 to a gunbroker.com price for shipping, plus 9.5% 'cause the state taxes the shipping charge, plus $35 FFL fee. I pretty much have to steal one on GB for it to pencil out.

TexAg
October 4, 2011, 01:46 PM
Ouch! That is certainly a stinker! I have a $10 FFL here and don't have to worry about the sales tax on out of state purchases. I'll use gunbroker for new guns and FTF on used.

nonseven
October 5, 2011, 10:39 AM
Never thought about it shooting 45 GAP. I'm a GAP fan, and have more 45 GAP ammo than 45 ACP. That's a plus. I've got lots of 45 colts and 410 ammo too. So, 4 types of ammo it shoots.

Stainz
October 6, 2011, 08:08 AM
That gunstore had them at $599 the last time I was in there. The larger stores in town have had trouble getting them - even much larger stores. The only other one I've seen in a case around here was the CT version at a yuppee store for $799 - guess they are 'in demand'.

I recently paid $700 otd for a new 2" 632-2 - finally shipping after 18 months of promises. Believe me, the Governor is worth more...

Stainz

OFF TOPIC
PS Potheads do vote... witness who resides in the White House now!

"Yeah, man... I'm all in for some change... guns are bad... ya got some brownies, man?"

bikemutt
October 6, 2011, 08:49 AM
Well, I lollygagged long enough it sold to someone else.

I'm heading up to the grouse woods this weekend, maybe I'll play around with my buddy's Judge to see how much I really want one of these switch-hitting guns.

dtsdave
October 6, 2011, 09:27 PM
Has anybody shot 460 Rowland in a Governor? Would the moon clips hold up? The chamber length would let the round fit but would the length be a problem due to the additional velocity over 45ACP?

TexAg
October 7, 2011, 11:24 AM
I think I'd be more worried about pressure...

NG VI
October 7, 2011, 01:36 PM
Like TxAg I'd also be more worried about blowing up the gun than anything.

bikemutt
October 7, 2011, 05:12 PM
So I'm at the range yesterday trying to make holes out of sheets of paper, and lamenting not getting the Gov.

I mentioned this to one of the pro shop guys who helps me out with stupid questions when I have them. A light goes on, he says he has a Gov in the safe. He retrieves it, but it has a note on it saying it's on hold until closing time 10/6/11 (yesterday) for another guy. I asked him how much and he says $604 plus tax, $661.38 OTD. That's $1.38 more than the used one was going for. I told him to call me first thing today if the guy does not come pick it up.

I got the call at 10:00 am, she's mine!

Well, I still have to go get it which probably won't be until tomorrow owing to a family emergency. As I sat in the doctors waiting room it crossed my mind that while my wife is the one feeling ill, I'm obviously the one with the disease :D

I'll post up some pics when I get it, and a range report when I get the chance.

bikemutt
October 7, 2011, 08:02 PM
OK, so I picked up the Gov this afternoon. Until I handled this gun I wasn't totally sold on it, but it just feels right in my hand, like a 327 does (my next buy). I'll be shooting it this weekend with all available calibers, will update next week.

Couldn't resist a picture with an older brother; 29-2.

MCgunner
October 8, 2011, 07:16 PM
Seems like if you have to kill a snake for some reason, whatever gun you might have with you for more serious threats would do the job. Don't see much point in a dedicated "snake gun."

:D I really can't get overly turned on by these Thunderfive impersonators. I have a .410/.45 Colt barrel for my Contender, though, and it's entertaining if not terribly useful. Fun to shoot starlings and such on the wing with when you're just goofing off. Of course it DOES have a full choke barrel adapter that stops the rotation of the shot column as well as choke it. About 20+ yards effective range. Such is not the case with these revolvers. If I got one, I'd think about having a smith thread the barrel for a TC choke. :D THEN, you might have something. Of course, you do need to remove the choke for shooting .45s. I have taken running rabbits at short range with my TC, though, something I could NOT have done with...say, my .22 Ruger Mk 2. If I'd actually been rabbit hunting, I'd had my 20 gauge, though.

I've scoped my TC for testing when i first got it. Now, it's not a revolver, but it does have that LONG freebore before hitting the rifling. It shot about 7-8 MOA best ammo with the scope at 100 yards. Considering the same gun is capable of SUB MOA with other barrels, .30-30 or 7mm TCU, that shows a significant loss of accuracy. One thing about the TC, too, I can shoot .44 mag equivalent loads in it, though they do hurt a bit with that Pachmayr and TC grip angle.

nonseven
October 9, 2011, 02:58 PM
I went into a new local gunshop, to my surprise they had 2 new Governors. They now have 1. It was $700 OTD.

Accurate, and shoots right to point of point of aim with the 225g Winchester bonded 45 colt. Shot some 410 PDX1s out of it too. Gonna try some 45 GAPs in it later today. That it shoots ACPs and GAPs make this a real versatle gun. Single action trigger is perfectly crisp.

harmon rabb
October 9, 2011, 03:06 PM
Ok, here's a question -- can you fire the hot 45LC loads out of this thing? Or are you pretty much limited to the cowboy loads?

nonseven
October 9, 2011, 05:15 PM
I would think it would be fine with the hottest factory loads.

TexAg
October 9, 2011, 06:23 PM
Considering N frame S&Ws are not OK to shoot the stout Buffalo Bore or "Ruger/TC only" loads, I would not think the Gov. would handle it well (at least for long) either. There are however many good .45 Colt loads available that are standard pressure, some even Buffalo Bore make. Remington LSWCHP, Hornady Critical Defense, Speer Gold Dot, etc. would all be very potent IMO. I'd imagine you could shoot .45 acp +p to your heart's content.

stolivar
October 9, 2011, 09:32 PM
most of you out there are comparing apples to oranges. If you have not used or shot one you should not be giving advice. I will shoot mine and get back with you on it.



steve

bikemutt
October 10, 2011, 12:06 PM
Myself and a couple of buddies, both of whom are experienced handgun shooters, took the Governor for a test drive yesterday.

We ran .410 in both #6, #4 and the "special" Winchester self-defense rounds. Also ran garden variety .45 long colt ball ammo, and finally .45ACP FMJ target ammo loaded in moon clips.

Range was approximately 30-40', targets were 12" circles that turn bright green when struck.

Within the limits of keen observation, every charge hit the targets. The shotshell patterns were surprisingly tight at that range. The ball rounds were well placed once each person overcame the apparent tendency of the gun to shoot high and right. None of these rounds displayed noteworthy recoil. By comparison the Judge loaded with 3" .410s was punishing. We couldn't get the darn shotshells out of the Judge after the first round so further comparisons weren't possible. The Judge's owner stated that was the first time using Federal shotshells and he did have to stuff them in.

The consensus is the Governor is no tack driver with ball ammo, nor is a wingshooting tool to be compared with a shotgun, but for it's intended use it does a remarkable job of getting more things right than wrong.

I'll buy and sell a gun faster than greased lightening if it's not my cup of tea; the Governor has earned a place in my collection, near the top :)

F-111 John
October 10, 2011, 04:19 PM
We couldn't get the darn shotshells out of the Judge after the first round so further comparisons weren't possible. The Judge's owner stated that was the first time using Federal shotshells and he did have to stuff them in.
I wonder if after shooting the .45 LC and .45 ACP, that there was fouling of the chambers that made it hard to seat and extract the .410?

Sort of like how it's sometimes difficult to chamber .357 mag after shooting a bunch of .38 spl, and not cleaning the cylinder chambers.

bikemutt
October 10, 2011, 04:26 PM
I wonder if after shooting the .45 LC and .45 ACP, that there was fouling of the chambers that made it hard to seat and extract the .410?

Sort of like how it's sometimes difficult to chamber .357 mag after shooting a bunch of .38 spl, and not cleaning the cylinder chambers.

When we finally got them out, we compared the shells with another brand, these particular Federals were a very tight fit. No other ammo was fired through the Judge yesterday, I think he got a bad box of shells this time around. That Judge is carried way more than it's shot.

nonseven
October 10, 2011, 05:11 PM
So far I'm thrilled with this gun. At 20 ft, I'm putting 45 colts and 45 ACPs into one big hole, shooting offhand, right to point of aim. And 000 buck 410s group about 3" at the same distance. Could be quite handy loaded with buckshot and 45 colts, with 45 ACP in a moonclip for a fast reload.

bikemutt
October 10, 2011, 06:35 PM
So far I'm thrilled with this gun. At 20 ft, I'm putting 45 colts and 45 ACPs into one big hole, shooting offhand, right to point of aim. And 000 buck 410s group about 3" at the same distance. Could be quite handy loaded with buckshot and 45 colts, with 45 ACP in a moonclip for a fast reload.
Agreed. Now that I've seen how fast a moon-clipped reload is, I find myself wishing for a .45 ALC (auto long colt), lol.

BTW, how on earth do you get the first spent casing dislodged from the full moon?

nonseven
October 10, 2011, 07:18 PM
>>BTW, how on earth do you get the first spent casing dislodged from the full moon?<<


Yeah, they were a bit tight. 45 GAPs were looser.

suemarkp
October 10, 2011, 07:57 PM
The 45 ALC is called the 45 Win Mag (and I wouldn't try loading one of those into this gun if it will fit).

You can buy or make a "demooning" tool. I used a 4" piece of 3/8 pipe and did a saw cut on the end about 3/4 of the way down the edge of the pipe (leaves short a lip for about 45 degrees of circumference). You stick the pipe up the moon brass and the little lip on the edge of the pipe is used as a wedge. Rotate the pipe and it pops the brass right out and it slides down the pipe.

I'm probably not explaining the pipe well, a picture would be worth 1000 words.

bikemutt
October 10, 2011, 09:01 PM
The 45 ALC is called the 45 Win Mag (and I wouldn't try loading one of those into this gun if it will fit).

You can buy or make a "demooning" tool. I used a 4" piece of 3/8 pipe and did a saw cut on the end about 3/4 of the way down the edge of the pipe (leaves short a lip for about 45 degrees of circumference). You stick the pipe up the moon brass and the little lip on the edge of the pipe is used as a wedge. Rotate the pipe and it pops the brass right out and it slides down the pipe.

I'm probably not explaining the pipe well, a picture would be worth 1000 words.
Seeing the problem in front of me, and your solution, it makes perfect sense. I'm not in a tool-positive stage of life right now so I may have to buy one. I'll look around, thanks!

BCMjUnKiE
February 18, 2012, 05:16 PM
No one mentioned the ability to shoot .410 shotgun shells.:D

zoom6zoom
February 18, 2012, 06:50 PM
I'm confident in my ability to take out a snake, if needed, with my regular SD carry ammo. Yes, I used to live in rural Kansas too. I'd hate to be carrying "snake loads" and run into the need to defend myself from a two legged snake.

JFrame
February 18, 2012, 07:02 PM
So far I'm thrilled with this gun. At 20 ft, I'm putting 45 colts and 45 ACPs into one big hole, shooting offhand, right to point of aim. And 000 buck 410s group about 3" at the same distance. Could be quite handy loaded with buckshot and 45 colts, with 45 ACP in a moonclip for a fast reload.


You can also Dutch-load with .410 shotshells, .45 Colt rounds, and .45 ACP in a 2-round clip...Or .410's + .45 ACP's only with two 2-round clips...Or...

The mind boggles at the variety of loading options... :)


.

rhinoh
February 19, 2012, 09:04 AM
I have a Judge and a Governor. I prefer the Gov hands down. I will put my Judge up for sale when I get a round tuit.
My Gov does shoot high and left though...need more time with it to be sure it isn't me.
As for de-mooning difficulties I bought a bunch of those plastic moonclips, work great and easy to use.

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