unhappy with 270 results


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GhostDevil
October 3, 2011, 02:26 PM
Hello-
I'm fairly new to reloading until recently all my experience was for a 12 ga. I purchased a hornady lock-n-load classic a few months back and started reloading for my 7mm mag. So far I've been very happy with the results and my groups have improved over factory ammo. This weekend I bought a hornady die set for my 270 along with a #1 shell holder. I had some new winchester brass so I started to work up my first rounds. When I looked at my first cartridge I was unhappy with what appear to be excessive marks on the bullet. I would say it's more than just marks it actually appears to be deforming the jacket. I took the seating die back apart and cleaned again, then I adjusted the die according to the instructions and got the same result. I've sent an email to hornady and haven't heard back so I figured I'd try and hit the boards to see if anyone has any suggestions. The one thing I did notice that seemed off is that when I setup the seating die initially it says the bullet should be seated lightly in the mouth of the case... well it's seated more than what I would consider lightly.

info:
2 month old lock-n-load classic
new hornady dies with new #1 shellholder
new winchester brass that was sized before seating the bullet
140gr hornady sst bullets

I've attached a picture. The 7mm mag is on the left and the 270's are on the right.

Thanks for your time
-Brandon

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wdallis
October 3, 2011, 02:40 PM
The maximum overall length for a .270 winchester is 3.340", how long are the .270 shells that are in the photo?

Also, can you measure just the shell with out the bullet being part of the measurement?

GhostDevil
October 3, 2011, 02:48 PM
I'm not sure of the exact length in the photo, I'd have to measure when I get home. They were not a final product, those were just initial seating. The cases were all under 2.540. Most were close to 2.45 but I could measure again when I get home.

Thanks

bigedp51
October 3, 2011, 03:05 PM
Use a dremel tool or drill and smooth and polish the mouth of the seating cup, the ring around the bullet is caused by the sharp edge at the mouth of the seater. Your problem is made worse because of the plastic tip bullets are giving and allowing more pressure to be applied at the base of the seater.

Some die manufactures if you send the seater and type bullet you are using will make a custom seater that fits the contour of the bullet perfectly.

This is a normal problem, the seating cup contour is a "generic" curve made for the average bullet and your plastic tip bullets give no support at the tip when seating the bullet under pressure.

If it was your shirt you would have ring around the collar and you would spray it with spray and wash. On a bullet you polish the seating cup and remove any sharp edges that can cut into the bullet.

GhostDevil
October 3, 2011, 03:22 PM
Ok I'll look into that. On my 7mm I can see the rings but not really feel them. The 270 on the other hand I can feel it that is why I grew concerned that maybe something was off. It's hard to see in the picture but if you look closely at the 7mm you can see the two lines. Either way I'll take another look at the seating stem.

Thanks!

spclpatrolgroup
October 3, 2011, 03:57 PM
Good information, I have had the exact same problem with my hornady 270 dies. I have been loading interlocks.

Funshooter45
October 3, 2011, 04:07 PM
I haven't had that problem to that extent on my .270 WSM. But I am using RCBS dies and not using Hornady bullets in that particular rifle. The rings won't actually hurt anything when it comes to accuracy or performance, but yeah I do understand they kind of look untidy. You can use the Dremel, or any other tool to take the sharp edge off the seater as mentioned. The problem is compounded a little bit because of the Hornady secant ogive on the bullet. That makes for a lower angle or a "sharper" point on the bullet, so the effect of a sharp edge on the seater die is magnified. Finally, did you do a thorough inside chamfer on the case mouth? A good inside chamfer reducees the force needed for that initial "push" to get the bullet entered into the case. After that push, it slides in very easily.

NCsmitty
October 3, 2011, 04:50 PM
Make sure the cases are properly chamfered to remove the burr, as Funshooter45 mentioned.
Remove the seating stem on the 7mm dies and compare the two for size and angle at the tip. You might be able to substitute the 7mm stem in the 270 die and see if it makes a difference, at least temporarily.


NCsmitty

GhostDevil
October 3, 2011, 04:53 PM
@spclpatrolgroup interesting, I was thinking that I might pickup some different bullets just to see if there would be any differences. All I have right now to test with are 130gr sst and 140gr sst.

@Funshooter45 I did hit the case neck with chamfer tool and even put some hornady one shot case lube on the outer base of the bullet, let it dry for about 60 secs, and then proceeded to seat the bullet. I didn't think it made much of a difference.

When I get home tonight I'll work over another case and be sure to really make sure I chamfer the case well.

Thanks for the input

sugarmaker
October 3, 2011, 05:30 PM
Assuming you are not compressing your loads, I would make sure I ran the FL expander ball through the factory case and then chamfer, new cases can be hard to seat into as they come from the factory.

Next I might take my chamfer tool to the inside of the seater plug if it looked sharp. If it looks OK I might chuck a bullet into my drill and, using a little abrasive, spin it against the inside of the seating stem to improve contact.

hvychev77
October 3, 2011, 07:44 PM
aren't you supposed to seat bullets up to the cannelure ring around the bullet?

gamestalker
October 3, 2011, 07:57 PM
Most of the problem is the brass. If it is new unfired brass as you said, then it should be resized, checked for trimming length, and then reamed and chamfered before trying to load it. I never load new brass right out of the bag without some initial preparation. Whats happening is the mouth of the new brass is needing reaming & chamfering to allow for a smooth seating.

GhostDevil
October 3, 2011, 11:57 PM
@gamestalker I did chamfer the brass, brush the inside of the neck, resized the brass, checked the length and loaded. Now maybe I didn't chamfer the neck enough, I treated this brass the same as I treated the brand new 7 mag brass that I loaded without issue.

I bought another set of dies to try out and I'm happier with the results. On the left are the from earlier and the 3 on the right I just set. I can hardly see a mark on the bullet. I'm not really sure these pictures are doing justice here but the far left bullet you can see the indentation on the bullet. Regardless I'm going to try and get in touch with hornady tomorrow and see what they would like me to do. For now I'm going to use the new hornady die set that I picked up this afternoon. Thanks for everyone's input this was really bothering me.

GooseGestapo
October 4, 2011, 10:57 AM
This is not an uncommon problem with the Hornady A-max and SST bullets. They are in reality a Hollow Point bullet with a plastic nose cap/plug.

Hornady offers bullet specific seating punches that will prevent the bullet distortion.

I typically use Lee dies and "occasionally" see this. In my case only with the 7mm08 dies. I used a dremmel and reshaped the inside of the seating punch to eliminate this.
Also, a compressed powder charge will aggravate this condition......
Good thing is though, that with the amount of distortion you're getting, most likely the performance of the bullet is unaltered......

Another suggestion is to lube the inside of the case necks with something graphite like dri-slide. This will decrease, but not likely eliminate the bullet distortion.

Funshooter45
October 4, 2011, 11:17 AM
aren't you supposed to seat bullets up to the cannelure ring around the bullet?
No. You seat the bullet to whatever OAL you are trying to get to. The cannelure on rifle bullets is immaterial for most of us unless it is one of those rare occasions when you are trying to crimp.

GhostDevil
October 4, 2011, 01:07 PM
Thanks again guys. The new bullets I seated in the cases I'm 100% happy with. While I may see the ring where the bullet contacted the die I don't feel it when I run my finger down the bullet. The 7 mag rounds displayed the same ring and I've been more than happy with their accuracy, tightest groups that I've ever shot.
I don't have a chronograph, yet, I've spent enough money this year but I'd like to get one just so I can see if I'm actually getting the velocities that I think I'm getting from these reloads. I start out on the slow side, maybe load 6 rounds with the components listed in the manual, then load 6 rounds with a different primer just to see if anything changes. Currently I like the federal 215 primers in my 7 mag. I'm going to load a few more 270 this week and hopefully get to the range Friday or this weekend.

Mal H
October 4, 2011, 02:08 PM
GhostDevil, I have to ask why you are getting such obvious differences in bullet seating depth. In the image in post 13, the 3rd one (using your first set of dies) is quite a bit longer than the other two to its left. Even the 3 on the right (with the newer set of dies) have measurable differences on the screen. I'm wondering if it's an optical illusion. Have you checked them with a caliper to see if the OAL is consistent?

GhostDevil
October 4, 2011, 03:32 PM
GhostDevil, I have to ask why you are getting such obvious differences in bullet seating depth. In the image in post 13, the 3rd one (using your first set of dies) is quite a bit longer than the other two to its left. Even the 3 on the right (with the newer set of dies) have measurable differences on the screen. I'm wondering if it's an optical illusion. Have you checked them with a caliper to see if the OAL is consistent?
These were initial bullet seatings and not the final product. I have a hornady comparator that I use to verify the lengths. I wasn't interested in the OAL at the point I was taking the pictures. I was concerned with the bullet distortion I was seeing. I had no interest in going further until I figured out what was going on.

I was at work and didn't really explain this well. The reason the first loads were different lengths was due to the fact that I loaded two rounds and wasn't happy with the distortion of the bullet. I removed the die and cleaned the die again, inspected it, etc... just tried to figure out what was going on. I set the die up again so obviously it was not exactly the same as the previous setup. With the second die set. I had three cases ready to go. I setup the new die after cleaning etc... and tried one bullet. It looked fine so I put that one aside adjusted the the bullet seater down and tried another case. I was happy with that. I took a quick measurement to make sure I wasn't already where I wanted my bullet, I wasn't so I adjusted it down and loaded the next case I had ready. The reason for doing this was just me trying to take baby steps in case something changed I could revert or have more information as to when things were going wrong. So they weren't final products just me trying to make sure the issue was in fact gone. Maybe that explains things a little better and maybe not =)

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