Buy Made-in-USA initiative?


PDA






bds
October 3, 2011, 10:58 PM
We all have seen and heard "Buy USA made" push before. Heck, we even have "Buy California Initiative" for our agriculture!

After hearing another announcement for "Buy USA made" initiative announcement on the TV news tonight for requiring local/state government to only buy USA made products, I decided to do something. For my future shooting/reloading equipment/component purchases, whenever I have an equivalent USA made product option, I am planning to buy USA made.

I know, we've done this exercise before with powders and I realize that there are certain powders that some reloaders will not part with (like RL15 made in Sweden) and that's understandable.

What I am suggesting is to buy USA made "when possible/able" especially when there's an equivalent product available to retain my shooting/reloading dollars in USA to support USA companies. I am willing to pay a bit more with the satisfaction that I supported another USA company.

Here's my run down:

Equipment - Most of my equipment are USA made and will continue to buy USA made products.

Primers - I like Winchester/CCI primers so I will continue buying these.

Bullets - I believe all of my rifle and pistol jacketed/plated/lead bullets are made in USA, so no worries there.

Powders:
Alliant Bullseye, Promo, Green Dot, Unique, PowerPistol - made in USA
Winchester WST, W231, WSF, AutoComp - made in USA
Hodgdon Titegroup, HP-38, H335 - made in USA

Hodgdon Clays, Universal, H4895, Varget, - made in Austrailia but packaged in USA

IMR 4895 - made in Canada but packaged in USA

Alliant Reloader 15 - made in Sweden for Alliant

Vihtavuori N320 - made in Finland (I can use comparable burn rate Alliant/Hodgdon/Winchester powders)

Consumables (Brass, media, polish, solvent, cleaner, lube, etc.) - will continue to buy USA made


So, what say you? Anyone else want to join me on this personal initiative?

If you enjoyed reading about "Buy Made-in-USA initiative?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Woody3
October 4, 2011, 12:54 AM
Been doing it. I try to buy everything U.S.A made. Sometimes it isn't possible but most of the time an alternative is available if you look.

Woody


Keep your head low and your powder dry.

1SOW
October 4, 2011, 01:10 AM
Vihtavuori N320 - made in Finland (I can use comparable burn rate Alliant/Hodgdon/Winchester powders)


I too buy American for everything except the n320. While you can get approx. the same burn rate with other powders, they aren't single-based powders. They burn hotter and leave more residue with light loads in 9mm.

I may try some AA #5, but I don't think the Accurate load data looks promising in 124/125gr 9mm with 130+PF loads.

Vit n320:
Not positional
Not temp sensitive (in TX, 20 to 105+degs.)
Meters excellently
Cool Burning
No flash
Very clean burning even with 130PF loads
Needs just about 1/2 case-load/4.0 grs for 9mm with 125 gr bullet--can't double charge

1stmarine
October 4, 2011, 01:12 AM
I do that with everything, firearms, food, clothes, and electronics,,almost impossible, but at least it doesn't bother me so much if they are from friendly countries. I never buy from socialist, communist or radical Arab countries.
And that is my decision and my freedom. If everyone did the same then there wouldn't be any jobless here, at least for those who want to work.

Snowbandit
October 4, 2011, 01:31 AM
And I will only buy guns made in the USA also. No sense sending my money out of the country to support foreign economies that don't support us.

bds
October 4, 2011, 02:20 AM
I too buy American for everything except the n320.
Like RL15, not willing to part with N320 is understandable. It's like me and W231/HP-38 :D

Well, I did state "buy USA made 'when possible/able'"

Walkalong
October 4, 2011, 08:35 AM
There is certainly no better time than now to keep our money in the USA if possible, and not send it to places like China who look to pass us as a world power.

I would be hard pressed to quit N320 as well. :)

spclpatrolgroup
October 4, 2011, 11:42 AM
My brother is a cival engineer, he worked on a project funded by the stimulus plan, where a certain % of the materials had to be US in orgin. He said it made the project like 30-40% more expensive, and took an extra 2 weeks for sourcing the materials. Not that I like that, but that is the state of things, having said that, I still buy US over forien if I have the choice.

beatledog7
October 4, 2011, 12:07 PM
I am "engineered by people who also use it" and "made by people who know what they're doing and care about making a great product" and "available when I need it at a 'good value' price" sensitive.

If that means it was made in the USA, fine. If that means it was made in Germany or Japan or Belgium or Canada or the UK or any other country that isn't bent on destroying America, or if was made on Mars, also fine.

If that means it was made in a country that's lending money to our out-of-control Federal government and using the interest to build weapons so they can eventually conquer us, or made in a country that's harboring or supporting terrorists, then I'll find an alternative if possible.

If that means it was made by workers whose leadership supports big-government ideals and finances politicians who want to rob us of our freedoms and enslave us, I'll find an alternative if possible.

1stmarine
October 4, 2011, 02:12 PM
My family is well educated in this matter. And the same way they know I go and search to buy products from our local farmers here in the state, US made firearms, food, etc... then when they come back from shopping I feel very proud when they say. "Look daddy I got some shoes and they are made in Maine" and I am so proud they get it!.
When people bashed on any Keltec's quality issues I told them, don't worry they will work them out. As far as the firearms they make maybe they are not the ultimate weapon but they are a pretty good value for many, they are fun and they are made here so they will always get my dollars for whatever purpose.
Same thing with the other shooting supplies. Sadly sometimes we cannot find something here and that would be the last resource for me. I don't mind spending more in whatever supplies.
One dollar saved at walmart might be one dollar gone to a comunist country and invested towards the future missery of our children.
So that is why I say buy USA fireams and everything. If not possible at least from democratic allied countries.
Nothing wrong with a nice Beretta or a Glock that is fully assembled here in the USA.

kelbro
October 4, 2011, 02:57 PM
Very noble effort. I only wish that we could buy everything 'Made in America'. Unfortunately, that will never be the case again.

ErikO
October 4, 2011, 03:10 PM
My once-shot brass were fire-made in the US. Initial point of origin not that important to me when I'm picking it up off the range floor and plan on using it until it's lost or scrap.

HIPoint, Ruger & KelTec are both made in the US so no worries there. I still plan on getting a Rock Island 1911.

Now to get the 'Buy American Act' to have tighter restrictions on government purchases...

OldMac
October 4, 2011, 06:33 PM
I buy USA made first and Mexico/canada made 2nd. Unfortunately, the c&r ffl makes imports too tempting to resist.

T Bran
October 4, 2011, 07:00 PM
I buy USA made whenever the option is there and dont mind the extra cost.
Wish the USA only gas station experiment was available for my area cause funding the killing of our own people just rubs me the wrong way for some odd reason.
T

1stmarine
October 4, 2011, 07:16 PM
I hear folks all the time the government is sending the jobs overseas. I tell them really? how? This is each and everyone citizen's responsibility. Make a choice. I like keltec, Remington made here, Leupold, Redfield, Lake city, Federal and Hornady ammo plants here,
same thing with the great food from local farmers and markets. It doesn't take that much effort to find out asking a little or reading labels but we are too lazy (not everyone).
I never ever buy anything I find with the made in "those enemy places" brands. I like some olive oil from Italy and Spain, some cheese from Europe, Canada, some beer from Germany but is as far as I go occasionally. Everything else must come from here. If everyone demanded this from corporations above anything corporations would be forced to follow demand and eventually would be enough competition to drive local prices down. Don't be affraid to bring something to the counter ask for the store manager and ask where is the US made product showing the "made in XXX" tag. Never will be the prices some can make on those regimes as we do not allow slavery and torture of the workforce and the people.
...or do we?
Glocks, H&K and S&B scopes i have to put in the list of exceptions. Some have plants here and get assemble here, no much more.
Even if you see some of the Japanese they have nice scopes and they open car manufacturing plants here. Very different approach than other folks in that same region.
Each of us has the power to change things. Never underestimate that.

wingman
October 4, 2011, 10:20 PM
I buy American whenever possible,without manufacturing the American middle
class will be gone soon and along with that freedom.:(

Kevin Rohrer
October 4, 2011, 11:06 PM
Almost all my equipment is old and it's all American-made using American steel and iron. My only aluminum press is the Dillon, and it is old enough to have been made from American aluminum.

And I buy only American components, no Tupa, Wolf, or whatever primers or bullets.

1SOW
October 5, 2011, 12:37 AM
If you're old enough, President Reagan foretold all of this many years ago.
He predicted the decentralization of US production as well as the balancing of world production.

I won't balance anything with enemies to our way of life and liberty.

Hopefully our leadership will come from Americans who feel the same way.

This thread has grown somber.

BBDartCA
October 5, 2011, 12:46 AM
I've been to ADI facilities in Australia and know 1st hand how much work it takes to get the product over to the USA. I've seen the math and sincerely beleive there is more US labor content in bringing in powder from Australia versus making the powder in a modern US plant.

1stmarine
October 5, 2011, 01:18 AM
I think nobody here has been irrational. We want to consume here to produce jobs for our children everywhere here including the firearms industry and beyond, of course. Very simple.
What is happening nobody should be mad at anyone but our own apathy for not demanding this at the counter in the stores and to the representatives, wherever patriots might be found.
The firearms alone is a small problem considering everything else.
trading firearms and other products in a global economy with civilized allies? YEs,
Doing this with communist, fascist and extremist regimes that want to destroy the civilized world? no thanks!

gun addict
October 5, 2011, 01:29 AM
Nope, i buy whatever gets me the most with my cash. I the foreign market is such a competition it forces the US industry to adapt and overcome. Take for example how Glock and Springfield dominated the market not too long ago, and only then does US gun companies begun to develop quality polymer firearms such as the S&W MP to compete. Ford automotive is also a good example as they came out with the Ford Focus/Fusion to compete with the Japanese car market, namely the Camry series

competition is a good thing in capitalism, resorting to buying inferior US made products only makes things worst

and last thing, do you guys honestly think if you buy a, say, used Polytech M14 from a pawnshop that money somehow ends up in the pocket of the Chinese government? I mean.........really?

Cosmoline
October 5, 2011, 01:32 AM
I don't see a lot of point to it with reloading components. My bullets may be from Australia, my brass from Finland and my primers and powder from the US, but I don't view any of the vendors as foreign. All hand loaders are part of an international brotherhood. Besides, these are NOT big multinational evil companies here. They're usually pretty small outfits. Sometimes little more than family businesses. I'm confident I could visit any of these companies and find a welcome. These people are friends, often part of a real endangered species in their home countries. I'm going to keep supporting them.

amlevin
October 5, 2011, 12:12 PM
Buy USA makes a good bumper sticker but unfortunately there are some things no longer made here.

Ever try to buy a US made TV?

AND--

Not all "Foreign Names" are made in foreign countries. I drive a truck with a "Foreign Brand Name". It was designed here (lots of engineering jobs), parts made here by US Companies (more jobs for factory workers), Assembled here (more jobs in a factory), and transported to my Dealer by US trainmen and truck drivers.

Only thing that went "overseas" was a small percentage of the profit that was retained by the company. Remember, US shareholders in the company benefited too.

As BBDartCA said, there is more US labor involved, translated as US Dollars going into the US economy than most realize even if the basic product is imported. From the port Longshoremen, Train Crews, Truck Drivers, Warehouse men, Distributors, Sales Force, Advertising Companies, and Store Owners, there is a lot more money being spent here than people realize.

What's killing jobs in this country is over regulation and runaway government spending. The over regulation is obvious. The Debt is more insidious. The more the Government spends, that it doesn't have, puts pressure on the money supply, makes loans hard to get, reduces confidence in investors, and puts upward pressure on taxes.

longdayjake
October 5, 2011, 12:29 PM
The good thing about the shooting world is that most all the best stuff is made in the good old USA. That said, I will buy American made when I can but I won't buy something substandard simply because an American company is making it. The good news is that most of the high quality stuff is made in America. Electronics excluded. At least most of the software in electronics is American made. I personally believe that innovation and quality should be encouraged and rewarded no matter where it comes from. Hopefully, American companies can continue to meet those standards and exceed them. So far they have done pretty good for me.

tuj
October 5, 2011, 01:07 PM
If you buy a gun made in the USA, where was the steel made? Where was the iron ore and coking coal for the steel mined? Who made the machines to mine those resources? Its a giant rabbit hole you head down when you try to get around the fact that the world is a globalized economy. When you buy a Mercedes, I could argue you are buying American because the Germans use some US coal to power their factories. When you buy a computer, are you buying American because the chip design and software programming was done in the US while the fabrication of the parts was done in Taiwan or China?

Unless you know of a manufacturer who directly makes all their resource inputs and their own electricity, chances are there is a foreign country involved somewhere along the way. And the converse is true as well.

RhinoDefense
October 5, 2011, 01:17 PM
Buying American is a nice gesture but it's shallow thought.

bds
October 5, 2011, 01:49 PM
Well, with globalization it may be hard to find completely 100% USA made and that's understandable.

I am just going to make an effort to support as many USA made/companies when comparable shooting/reloading options are available.

It may be a small effort on my part that may not ultimately change much, but it puts a smile on my face and let's me sleep a little bit better at night.

1stmarine
October 5, 2011, 03:21 PM
What for some is "a shallow thought" for others is a noble
and very logical step based in the most fundamental common sense.
There is almost no manufacturing left here and in Europe and at the pace we are going the only two national products left will restless less syndrome medication and lawyers. My kids would have to move to another country to work in any production related job.

The concept is very simple. Think of the farmer, he gets up at 3am,
milks the cows, plants the tomatoes because HE KNOWS... if I do not
produce, I do not eat. This should apply to everyone in society.

I am tired of wall street crocks, politicians that behave like celebrities and
people simply too worry with dancing of the starts, survivor island and the
baseball game on TV to be involved in the future of our children.

A country without manufacturing is like that farmer w/o milk. This applies everywhere not just the firearms industry.

1stmarine
October 5, 2011, 10:24 PM
I just got an IM from somebody calling me a moron for defending US made products. There you go, that's the spirit of the high road! LOL!!

Folks here you can find a list of firearms manufactures and you will be surprised to find that some of these manufacture their main line of models somewhere else, if you do not know this already.

Competitive pricing is not about super modern light polymer stocks, super-duper treatment of exotic barrels, etc.. this that is sold as improving quality and accuracy but it is not about quality or innovation precisely but about reducing manufacturing costs by using lower quality materials and reducing labor cost paying 50cents/hr or less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Firearms_manufacturers_in_the_United_States

http://sovereign-investor.com/2011/05/16/china-secretly-declares-war-on-the-united-states/
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5078&type=0

1SOW
October 5, 2011, 11:11 PM
bds: Well, with globalization it may be hard to find completely 100% USA made and that's understandable.

I am just going to make an effort to support as many USA made/companies when comparable shooting/reloading options are available.

It may be a small effort on my part that may not ultimately change much, but it puts a smile on my face and let's me sleep a little bit better at night.

Then that's at least two (or 100's) of us, that will make some difference and not add to the economic problems.

orionengnr
October 5, 2011, 11:53 PM
While it is not always easy to buy American in everything in your life, I find it pretty easy in the firearms arena.
All of my guns were manufactured in the USA.
These days I spend a lot more on reloading gear and components that anything else.

Winchester primers are my favorite, and I don't mind paying a few extra dollars for them.
All of the powders I use are made by Winchester or Alliant.
Lead cast bullets made in USA.

Dillon press, dies by RCBS/Lee.
Piece of cake. :)

HD_Ride
October 6, 2011, 01:07 AM
I just got an IM from somebody calling me a moron for defending US made products. There you go, that's the spirit of the high road! LOL!! that member should go fourth and multiply....

RhinoDefense
October 6, 2011, 03:51 AM
China will not go to war with us. They do not want war with the US. China understands us. We need to understand China. Then we can work together and grow together.

Walkalong
October 6, 2011, 08:38 AM
It only makes sense to support our own country by buying products which keep dollars at home when we can. China is no friend, and we strengthen them with every dollar we send them. :)

kelbro
October 6, 2011, 12:25 PM
Example: An American company makes $10 off a product that they sell in Europe that they buy from China for $2. The European company sells it for $20. If it was made in the US or Europe, it would cost $10 or more to build. They would then have $0 profit and ~100 Americans would lose their jobs. Some Europeans and some Chinese would be out of work too. As it stands now, at least three companies in different parts of the world are working and making a profit. Yes, I wish that it all could stay in the US but that's not realistic.

It's a global economy.

I do like several of the verses in that Toby Keith song, 'Made in America'.

RevGeo
October 6, 2011, 01:49 PM
It's a global economy and we'd better get used to it. Remember in history class being taught about early trade with 'The Far East'? Without the trade with China and India the European nations would have been in deep doo-doo.
The layout of the Earth was learned by merchants trying to get to Asia for trading purposes.
Buying from and selling to China and the other Asian countries is nothing new.
Whether we like it or not (and I don't especially like it) Americans are a part of a new, world-wide economy. And a lot of the people who bitch about all the goods coming from China also support the very politicians and 'business people' who are sending jobs to India and China.
Doesn't make much sense...

George

1stmarine
October 6, 2011, 10:15 PM
They are called emerging economies and we and Europe should be called shrinking economies.

One of the folks that sent me a message was not meant to me but to another previous post criticizing why is needed to preserve US jobs they think all this we are discussing is a shallow thought. He kindly clarify this so thanks.
I got several wacko messages before.

Anyway in the end we, each one of us, have the right and the choice to ask at the counter, where is this ammo manufactured, or this pistol, is at least assembled here?
Same thing with the supplies, food, cars whatever we need whether is related to firearms or not.

Why not? It is common sense. The same way I also go to the farmers market and have great pleasure handing out the dollars to the farmer himself for some savory tomatoes grown no far form my home.

Hondo 60
October 6, 2011, 10:28 PM
I use a lot of Tite Group, and AFAIK it's made in the good ol' US of A.

But have to admit, my primers are Tula & Wolf.
The Tulas were $20/1000 & the Wolf $15/1000.
If I could find American made primers at that price, I'd buy 'em in a heart beat.

I grew up during the 60s & 70s.
It just seems wrong to buy ammunition related supplies from Russia. :(

1stmarine
October 6, 2011, 10:55 PM
You can buy very nice CCIS for large rifle for $27.99....
http://www.cabelas.com/reloading-components-cci-primers-1000.shtml

So that 7-8 dollar difference is invested in the future of our children vs the future misery of our children. Like all investments we do for retirement, college, etc.. if is an investment in the long term.

Strykervet
October 6, 2011, 11:04 PM
Nothing wrong with buying American when you can. You should. What if where you worked, they came in and said they lost all their customers to China, go home. Yessir, buy American anytime you can. Usually much better quality too.

I have some Chinese gear, but I don't brag about it. Certainly no Chinese firearms. US or European there. All my M4's and gear are US, the brass is LC and the bullets are new unused surplus.

FROGO207
October 7, 2011, 10:15 PM
I also do spend as much as I can here locally. First when buying locally the $$ go through many hands before going out of town or state and then possibly out of the country. If what I want is not available right here I will bend a little but the crappy China/WM type products are on the bottom of my list. Yes these products are sold locally but a SMALL percentage of any profits actually benefit the local economy in any way at all so I choose not to support them. I also will avoid any local retailer that treats their employees poorly after I am informed of such problems. As I have said before "You get what you pay for".

kingmt
October 8, 2011, 10:18 PM
Do you buy a Toyota which is a foreign company made in America or a foreign made Ford American company? What if it is made in China & assembled in USA or it is packaged in USA? What if it is made in the USA but with imported parts, raw material, or even ore?

I got tired of buying junky shoes that cost $10 at Walmart every month for my kids. They work on a farm & need real boots so I went & bought Justin Boots at $60 a pair that I thought was a American company. 2 months later when they fell off his feet I looked in at the tag that said made in China. To add insult when I contacted the company twice being very pleasant they promised to help me both times & only lied never to hear from them anymore. If I would have got them at Walmart I would have still had enough money to buy 6 months worth.

I have no problem buying USA products if I get the value I'm paying for but I wont pay more for less.

bds
October 9, 2011, 02:41 AM
I will admit that I have purchased several Glocks over the years and recently a Sig 1911 for reasons other than the country of origin (and they won't be the last). But keep in mind that over $45,000+ have been spent the past 16 years on USA made shooting and reloading components/equipment.

As to greater scheme of things, we may not be able to get away from globalization when trying to buy USA made products, but making an effort is better than not trying.

I used to drive VW/Honda/Toyota/Nissan vehicles but always kept a fullsize 4x4 Chevy truck or Suburban as off road tow vehicles. We currently drive a Buick and have been happy with the reliability, performance and even decent gas mileage. For those that complain about the quality of US manufactured vehicles, Chevy trucks/Suburbans have been very reliable for us and we are hard on them.

I think the main thing is making an effort when the opportunities exist as many USA made/assembled products are of quality and at reasonable prices. USA made would be better but at least USA assembled is better than imported. If you haven't, give USA made/assembled a try ... you just might be surprised. :D

1stmarine
October 9, 2011, 10:35 AM
bds,
Glocks are assembled and serviced in the USA. I also have some so I do not feel bad about those specifically.
I confess I had to buy some saigas but I put on them more US made parts and accessories than the original price tag of the gun.
We cannot do it all at once but every little bit whenever we can helps. Since you were talking about cars I think that Subaru makes some models in a plant here in the USA. So if one doesn't like Chevy's or Fords there are other options. Fords come out very nicely done though.

amlevin
October 9, 2011, 12:31 PM
The Car Industry is a good example of what happens when people blindly "Buy American". For years the industry was rewarded by these people even though they had a total lack of innovation and only provided technical advances when jammed down their throats by the Government.

Foreign manufacturers of cars and trucks used innovation as a way to steal market share from the complacent Car Manufacturers that just figured that car and truck purchases would continue to follow the old family traditions of "Buying American".

If you enjoyed reading about "Buy Made-in-USA initiative?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!