Dumb to Buy 8lb?


PDA






mwsenoj
October 4, 2011, 01:49 AM
I hate buyer's remorse just as much as the next guy, so I am always a bit antsy about dropping some coin on stuff I have not used before especially on an online order. I am getting ready to buy a couple of things from Cabellas and get some free shipping and I am feeling the compulsion to buy an 8 lb can of Varget even though I have not used it before. I always hear good things about it and I am already paying for the hazmat fees for primers that I need ASAP. The price in cabellas is decent at $143 down from the reg 170+ it usually runs. Would you take the leap?


ps my rifle is a Rem 700 SPS Tactical .223 20' bbl with 1 in 9" twist. I have bulk Rem brass and shoot the Hornady 53 gr V-Max with some old primers that my dad gave me. I dont care about optimal accuracy as much as reasonable accuracy. I plan on shooting steel and coyotes between 100 and 400 yds.

If you enjoyed reading about "Dumb to Buy 8lb?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
thump_rrr
October 4, 2011, 02:56 AM
I use Varget with 69gr SMK's in a 1:9 twist AR-15.
I just started load development with 180gr SMK's in my 1:10 twist Savage 10BA .308. I've already hit sub .5 MOA groups and the rifle has only 75 rounds through it.
I've had great success with it in both rifles so I'd say go for it.

evan price
October 4, 2011, 04:28 AM
When it was $128 at my local gun shop November 2008, I bought TWO 8# jugs. I had previously only bought 1# of Varget and only tried it in a single application and liked it. Glad I did that then, it's a good powder.

Grumulkin
October 4, 2011, 06:36 AM
Varget is a very versatile powder so I don't see a problem buying 8 lbs. if you like it and shoot a lot and when the next reloading scare comes, your friends will be jealous. That said, Varget is not what works best in my 223s. You probably should buy a little less and try it before you go all in for it.

By the way, what works best in my 223s depending on the bullet is RL-15 & BL-C(2).

Also, price the powder someplace like Powder Valley before you decide how good a deal the Cabela's price is.

cfullgraf
October 4, 2011, 07:24 AM
You will get about 280 rounds of 223 Remington from one pound of Varget. How fast will you use up the powder?

Properly stored, even open powder will last a long time, maybe decades.

That said, I prefer to not have an open canister of powder for too long. But it happens in my household. I have not experienced powder going bad--yet.

I like and use Varget in 223 Remington and 30-06.

Walkalong
October 4, 2011, 07:31 AM
When you have finalized a load, buy in bulk.

bukijin
October 4, 2011, 08:43 AM
I think there are better powders for .223. (I have great success with AR2207 = H4198)

Having said that, I bought 500g (approx 1 pound - why do you North Americans still use imperial measurements ?? :neener:) of AR2208H (= H4898) for my .308 and it only lasted one afternoon. Wish I had bought 4 kg. Better to buy in bulk....and prices there are so much cheaper than Australia - despite the strong Aussie dollar and the fact that those powders are manufactured here :fire: why is that ?? (4kg costs approx AUS$320 here).

But realistically, you will use it eventually in one calibre or another so why not ?

sugarmaker
October 4, 2011, 10:14 AM
I bought 32lb 4895B back around 2000, have 15lb left. If I had it to do over I would buy enough to wear out the barrel with whatever made up the "standard load" for that gun. Too much and you end up with lots of extra powder which may or may not agree with the new barrel. Too little and you end up re-developing standard loads. Canister grade powders are more forgiving so smaller quantities make sense. I buy what I'll use in a year.

amlevin
October 4, 2011, 10:30 AM
I have gone through 35# of it so far this year and am still trying to make up my mind:cool::cool:

Yesterday's range session yielded another of those "annoying" one-hole, 5-shot groups at 100 yards using varget in my .308. How in the world is one supposed to keep track of his shots when he only sees one hole in the target:p;)

Varget, as far as I am concerned makes a great rifle powder and I'll be ordering another 30 plus pounds next week.

bds
October 4, 2011, 10:41 AM
my rifle is a Rem 700 SPS Tactical .223 20' bbl with 1 in 9" twist. I have bulk Rem brass and shoot the Hornady 53 gr V-Max with some old primers that my dad gave me. I dont care about optimal accuracy as much as reasonable accuracy. I plan on shooting steel and coyotes between 100 and 400 yds.
Although Varget can work for .223, I would use it mostly for .308 along with H4895.

When you have finalized a load, buy in bulk.
I am with Walkalong. If you have not shot any loads with Varget or done comparison with other powders, you may be short changing yourself, even for plinking loads.

I have tried H335/H4895/Varget in my 20" AR with 1:9" twist and for 55 gr bullet weight, I like H335. It will produce sub 1" shot group at 100 yards.

If a friend asked me what one powder to buy for the same twist rate/barrel length for 55 gr .223, I would suggest H335.

You can always buy 8 lbs of H335 and buy one pound bottles of Varget (and other powder like H4895) and do comparison tests. When you use up the H335 and found a better load, buy more of that powder. If you are happy with H335 loads, buy more of H335. :D

REL1203
October 4, 2011, 10:45 AM
i have been in your sitation many times. I am actually in it right now, i need to buy a 4 or 8lb bottle of something to start loading 223/556 over the winter, and right now am torn between TAC and H335, and the last gun show I will be at for this year is this weekend, i had to go out, buy 1lb bottle of H335 (none on hand myself) this last weekend, load up test rounds with both TAC and H335 and have to go test them this week after work before Friday/Sat so I know which to buy in bulk... At this point, if I dont get to test them in time, i am leaning towards H335

spclpatrolgroup
October 4, 2011, 10:46 AM
Varget is what I use in my 22-250, its the only powder I will use for it anymore.

GooseGestapo
October 4, 2011, 11:18 AM
re: Amlevin
Spent cases!!!! or and empty magazine.
Works for me!

cfullgraf
October 4, 2011, 12:27 PM
why do you North Americans still use imperial measurements ?? :neener:)

Becasue the saying "A pint's a pound the world around" sounds sexier than "A liter's a kilogram the world around".:p

dbarnhart
October 4, 2011, 03:03 PM
My only problem with Varget for 223 is that it does not meter well in the Hornady LnL-AP.

Tallinar
October 4, 2011, 03:08 PM
I am feeling the compulsion to buy an 8 lb can of Varget even though I have not used it before.

If it were me, I'd buy a smaller can to try it out first. If you find it suits your application, then buy it in bulk.

For .223, that will be what, over 2,000 rounds worth of powder? I'd give it a try first before taking that leap, personally.

redbullitt
October 4, 2011, 04:55 PM
I said yes because I have not had anything I could load it in not do well. FWIW i have the same 223 bolt...

I use just under 24g varget and a 69smk and it shoots lights out. Under 3/4 minute out to 300 yards very consistently. Varget is known to be great with temperature insensitivity, which for me is a very good thing.

sellersm
October 4, 2011, 05:06 PM
Why not? To me, Varget is to rifle as Unique is to pistol & shotgun! You can always find a use for it! :D

helotaxi
October 4, 2011, 05:42 PM
If it turns out you don't like it, you'll have no problem unloading it on someone else (sts).

RustyFN
October 4, 2011, 05:52 PM
I am shooting a 16" 1:9 twist AR. I have tried Varget, W748, BL(C)2 and H335. I liked H335 best. I just bought 8 pounds of it.

Seedtick
October 4, 2011, 09:39 PM
The price in cabellas is decent at $143 down from the reg 170+ it usually runs.

Powder Valley (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/)'s everyday low price = $139.50

Might be worth checking out??

Seedtick

:)

Hondo 60
October 5, 2011, 02:01 AM
Bought an 8 lb jug about a year ago.
Works great in my AR15

Also just bought an 8# jug of Tite Group.
It should last me at least 6-8 months.

P-32
October 5, 2011, 05:15 AM
I've worked through a couple of 4 lb cans of Reloder 15 in my AR's. Both were the same lot number. Varget is a good powder for a number of cartridges. I say buy it.

Sport45
October 5, 2011, 05:45 AM
I purchase most of my powder in 8# jugs.

Too bad they don't have TAC in 8 pounders or I'd have suggested you try that instead of Varget for your application.

Joemyxplyx
October 5, 2011, 08:28 AM
Sport45 wrote: Too bad they don't have TAC in 8 pounders or I'd have suggested you try that instead of Varget for your application.

I've got 2 8lb bottles of TAC I bought back when it was $10/lb. Powder Valley wants $125 for an 8lb bottle: http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

Also TAC, being a ball powder, meters a lot better than Varget.

Just saying.

gab909
October 6, 2011, 05:44 PM
When I first read a bunch of loads for the 223 and 22-250 I wanted to use Varget and BenchMark. The place had an eight pounder of Varget, but did not have an 8 pounder of BenchMark. I bought the 8 of Varget, and 2 lbs of Benchmark. I still have 1.5 pounds of bench mark. My 22-250 just does not like it, but loves the Varget. If you have an established load, buy the heck out of it. If you are just thinking, borrow half a pound from someone or buy a pound and work up a load. 18 dollars a pound is expensive fertilizer....

FROGO207
October 7, 2011, 09:36 PM
Well if you buy a pound of all the propellants mentioned in this post to try then you will have several chances to get the best accuracy and have others that might be great in another firearm besides. THEN get whatever works the best in your firearm. I would chime in and say that I have had the best groups with TAC and AA2015 in my 223 bolt/semi rifles to date.

A-FIXER
October 7, 2011, 09:58 PM
Come'on JONES, can't beat the price and you already paid the hazmat BUY IT!

mwsenoj
October 7, 2011, 10:36 PM
well, I took a mixed approach. I bought 4 pounds of H335 as per the recommendation of a couple of High Roaders. Cabellas is super slow to ship tho!

dc.fireman
October 7, 2011, 10:44 PM
Go for it. It's a versatile powder, in many calibers - but it really shines in .223 Remington. I have an 8lb'er, and 6 1 lb'rs I bought on sale. You'll like it.

-tc

mgmorden
October 7, 2011, 11:39 PM
If you find it at a good deal and there's load data for something you own, then no powder is "wasted". You can almost always figure out something that works well enough to use.

I'm a cheapskate though. I don't usually tailor for accuracy - as long as I find a safe load I'll just mass-produce until I run out of components :D. I'm seriously considering working up some 9mm loads using Promo. 8lb jugs of that stuff tend to run about $80. With that, Wolf primers, and free range pickup brass, I should be able to shoot pretty cheaply :D.

bds
October 7, 2011, 11:50 PM
mwsenoj, keep up posted with a range report.


mgmorden, I did Promo workup for 9mm/40S&W on this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=518185) using 2004 Alliant load data (http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalogs/2004AlliantPowderSM.pdf) for Red Dot (Alliant's website says to use Red Dot load data for Promo by weight).

mwsenoj
October 7, 2011, 11:53 PM
If you find it at a good deal and there's load data for something you own, then no powder is "wasted". You can almost always figure out something that works well enough to use.

I'm a cheapskate though. I don't usually tailor for accuracy - as long as I find a safe load I'll just mass-produce until I run out of components :D. I'm seriously considering working up some 9mm loads using Promo. 8lb jugs of that stuff tend to run about $80. With that, Wolf primers, and free range pickup brass, I should be able to shoot pretty cheaply :D.
I certainly see what you are saying about loading for cheap, but you are talking pistol. When I start loading for my .45 in a couple of months I will try to take that same approach, but for now my reloading for my rifle is intended to reach out to 100-500 yds and accuracy counts a bit more for that application. I know you know that.

2ndtimer
October 8, 2011, 09:26 PM
That price on an 8 lb jug of varget isn't that great. And while Varget works okay in my .223's, it usually works better with heavier bullets. I find TAC and Accurate 2015 better with the lighter bullets I like to shoot. That being said, if I find a super deal on powder, I have been known to roll the dice on an untested powder. I actually ordered 3 of the 8 lb kegs of Accurate Data 86 Extruded when Powder Valley offered it for $69 per keg a few years back. I still have 2 of them left and it has worked great in my .243 Win, 6.5x55 and .270 WSM. I also crossed my fingers when I ordered 2 8 lb kegs of Ramshot TAC for my .223's when I had never tried it before. (Powder Valley had it on sale for $79 per) I wish I had ordered 4 of them....
By the way, Powder Valley currently has Ramshot TAC for $125 for 8 lbs, and Wolf small rifle magnum or 223 primers for $15.50 per 1000, Just sayin'.

BullfrogKen
October 8, 2011, 09:42 PM
Varget is so versatile, 8 lbs will go quicker than you realize.


I bought two 18 lb jugs of AA No 7 for my 38 Super from a fella who'd stopped competing in IPSC early this summer. Never used it before. Figure it would make good trading booty if I didn't like it. I did, and I'm glad I bought it. Now that they're actually available again, I'm buying more and more 8lb jugs myself these days.

Fatelvis
October 9, 2011, 10:56 AM
I would buy a pound and make sure you like it, trying it in different loads. If you do indeed like it, go for the 8 lb'er! The cost savings per pound, and the elimination of concerns over lot variations, makes it a wise choice.

Stumper
October 9, 2011, 11:16 AM
I try NOT to buy only a pound of any powder anymore. If you work up a load you then run out and have to do a rework of a new lot. I messed about with small quantities of powder for many years. Now whenever I buy I try to get 4-8 pounds of a given lot so I can find the load I like and make thousands of them.

mwsenoj
October 9, 2011, 01:19 PM
Varget is so versatile, 8 lbs will go quicker than you realize.


I bought two 18 lb jugs of AA No 7 for my 38 Super from a fella who'd stopped competing in IPSC early this summer. Never used it before. Figure it would make good trading booty if I didn't like it. I did, and I'm glad I bought it. Now that they're actually available again, I'm buying more and more 8lb jugs myself these days.
I suppose I should have mentioned that I reload for my .243 as well, but I dont really shoot it much. Since I got my Rem 700 in 223 back in July I havent shot the pre '64 Win 70 .243.

Wildbillz
October 9, 2011, 02:06 PM
I once bought 16# of AA2230 with out having tryied it out. Turned out to be a pretty good deal. A min load got me into the velocity range I wanted and it was pretty constant. I still have some of it and will be loading up a bunch of 223/5.56mm when I get back state side.

Wild Bill

If you enjoyed reading about "Dumb to Buy 8lb?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!