Can I ship shotgun receiver at USPS?


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duns
October 4, 2011, 03:05 PM
I've searched for hours and can't find answer to this question. I want to send a shotgun receiver to the manufacturer for repair. I'm not an FFL. I know I can ship a shotgun at USPS but I am only sending the receiver -- is the receiver on its own still considered a shotgun (therefore mailable) or does it fall into some other (not mailable) category?

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rcmodel
October 4, 2011, 03:07 PM
The part with the serial number on it is the "Gun" in the eyes of the law.
And the USPS too as far as I know.

rc

duns
October 4, 2011, 03:17 PM
The part with the serial number on it is the "Gun" in the eyes of the law.
And the USPS too as far as I know.
Agreed, but what kind of gun is it when only the receiver is present? Is it still a shotgun and mailable at USPS or another type of gun and not mailable?

Chawbaccer
October 4, 2011, 03:34 PM
It would be considered a long gun. Just put it in a box and mail it, insurance is up to you, don't mark the box as to contents. You don't need any license to send the gun to the manufactur nor will you have to go thru a licensed dealer to have it returned to you.

oneounceload
October 4, 2011, 03:49 PM
It is considered a shotgun and mailable via USPS. Use the priority box and insure it for what it is worth

armoredman
October 4, 2011, 04:43 PM
Short answer, yes.

NavyLCDR
October 4, 2011, 05:14 PM
Short answer, yes.

Ummm..... respectfully.... there were two questions asked:

1. is the receiver on its own still considered a shotgun (therefore mailable)
2. or does it fall into some other (not mailable) category

I believe you probably meant:

1. Yes
2. No

:D

dogtown tom
October 4, 2011, 05:36 PM
duns I've searched for hours and can't find answer to this question. I want to send a shotgun receiver to the manufacturer for repair. I'm not an FFL. I know I can ship a shotgun at USPS but I am only sending the receiver -- is the receiver on its own still considered a shotgun (therefore mailable) or does it fall into some other (not mailable) category?

USPS regulations only allow licensed dealers, manufacturers and in certain circumstances LEO to mail anything other than rifles and shotguns.

ATF regulations classify a firearm receiver or frame as an "Other firearm"....therefore NOT mailable except by a licensed dealer.

Both ATF & USPS regulations are in effect when shipping or mailing firearms.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#1198527
12.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
12.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
12.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.

b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq.

g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

12.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 12.1.3 and 12.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 12.1.4 and 12.1.6.

12.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 12.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person’s official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 12.1.3c. through 12.1.3e.

12.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 12.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 12.1.3a. through 12.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee’s official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.

b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.

c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.

d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 12.1.3c. through 12.1.3e, Authorized Persons.

12.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

12.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 12.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.

12.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6 if:

a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or

b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 12.1.3a. through 12.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.

12.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6.

12.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 12.1.1e and 12.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 12.1.1e.

12.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.


Chawbaccer It would be considered a long gun. Just put it in a box and mail it, insurance is up to you, don't mark the box as to contents. You don't need any license to send the gun to the manufactur nor will you have to go thru a licensed dealer to have it returned to you.
Nope.
Doing the above is a felony.
(read the regs)

oneounceload It is considered a shotgun and mailable via USPS.
Nope again.
It's a firearm receiver....not a shotgun and not mailable.


armoredman Short answer, yes.
Short answer, felony.


NavyLCDR Quote:
Originally Posted by armoredman
Short answer, yes. Ummm..... respectfully.... there were two questions asked:

1. is the receiver on its own still considered a shotgun (therefore mailable)
2. or does it fall into some other (not mailable) category

I believe you probably meant:

1. Yes
2. No
You would be wrong.

Virginian
October 4, 2011, 06:53 PM
Well, all that is wonderful, but my local USPS considers a shotgun receiver a shotgun.

dogtown tom
October 4, 2011, 07:39 PM
Virginian Well, all that is wonderful, but my local USPS considers a shotgun receiver a shotgun.

Really?
Good luck with that.
12.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.

duns
October 4, 2011, 10:08 PM
I'm going to assume that dogtown_tom is correct therefore I can't send the receiver by USPS. Am I correct in thinking I can send the receiver by UPS or Fedex but it will need to go overnight air?

NavyLCDR
October 4, 2011, 10:35 PM
or, you could do as the postal regulations suggest and call your local ATF office and ask them. Or, leave the shoulder stock attached to it.

dogtown tom
October 5, 2011, 12:00 AM
NavyLCDR or, you could do as the postal regulations suggest and call your local ATF office and ask them.
Don't do this.
Verbal "advice" from ATF or any government agency is worth the paper its printed on. A "knowledgeable" ATF IOI will simply refer you to the written documentation.

If you need proof, get it in writing.

Or, leave the shoulder stock attached to it.
Do this.
Makes it pretty clear that it is/was/will be a shotgun.

Mark8252
October 5, 2011, 01:24 AM
What Chawbaccer said. I have done so many times. Make an effort to not make it obvious its a gun. Not because its illegal to ship... because someone somewhere will steal it. Insure it.

:):):):)

duns
October 5, 2011, 11:50 AM
... leave the shoulder stock attached to it.Leaving the shoulder stock attached does not make clear that it is not a short-barreled shotgun and therefore restricted.

duns
October 5, 2011, 11:55 AM
What Chawbaccer said. I have done so many times. Make an effort to not make it obvious its a gun. Not because its illegal to ship... because someone somewhere will steal it. Insure it.From what I've read here, it may well be illegal to ship. I'm not going to risk it if there is any doubt about the legality. (BTW, the insurance would surely be null and void if it was an illegal shipment.)

RedAlert
October 5, 2011, 11:56 AM
I was just researching on the FedEx website for info on shipping firearms. Here are their rules:

Firearms

Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S.or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
Carrier cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.
Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The outside of the package(s) must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package(s) contains a firearm.
The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

Hope this helps.

dogtown tom
October 5, 2011, 12:14 PM
duns Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyLCDR
... leave the shoulder stock attached to it. Leaving the shoulder stock attached does not make clear that it is not a short-barreled shotgun and therefore restricted.

There is no requirement to prove that a shotgun is a short barreled shotgun.
Short barreled shotguns are regulated by the National Firearms Act.
Whether the barrel is included or not does not change the fact that an NFA firearm IS STILL an NFA firearm.

If you are not mailing a short barreled shotgun you don't need to be concerned with it.

NavyLCDR
October 5, 2011, 12:44 PM
Leaving the shoulder stock attached does not make clear that it is not a short-barreled shotgun and therefore restricted.

FFLs sell stripped receivers every day, all day long without them being NFA regulated items. If we follow down this track of your theory, then every person who possess any receiver without a barrel attached would be required to pay the tax stamp and register the receiver as an NFA firearm to be legal.

That is simply not the case.

duns
October 5, 2011, 03:50 PM
Let me see if I've got this right. A shotgun receiver on its own would be ATF classed as "other firearm" and restricted at USPS but a receiver with stock attached would be a "shotgun" and therefore mailable at USPS?

dogtown tom
October 5, 2011, 04:15 PM
duns Let me see if I've got this right. A shotgun receiver on its own would be ATF classed as "other firearm" and restricted at USPS but a receiver with stock attached would be a "shotgun" and therefore mailable at USPS?
yup.:D

BTW.....firearms such as the Mossberg Persuader ( a firearm having a pistol grip that expels a shotgun shell) are also classified as "Other Firearms" and are not mailable. They cannot be classified as shotguns because ancient Federal law defined shotgun as a firearm fired from the shoulder.

To purchase a PGO shotgun from a licensed dealer, the buyer must be 21 or older. While you can buy rifles or shotguns at 18, handguns & other firearms are only transferrable to 21 and up.

NavyLCDR
October 5, 2011, 04:53 PM
BTW.....firearms such as the Mossberg Persuader ( a firearm having a pistol grip that expels a shotgun shell) are also classified as "Other Firearms" and are not mailable. They cannot be classified as shotguns because ancient Federal law defined shotgun as a firearm fired from the shoulder.

In addition... you're going to love this, duns....

An FFL can sell a Persuader shotgun with the shoulder stock attached to an 18 year old. They can sell it to an out-of-state resident (meeting the laws of both states). Because with a shoulder stock installed it is a shotgun. They can sell a pistol grip to a shotgun, not attached to the shotgun, to an 18 year old or out-of-state resident because it is simply an accessory and not any kind of firearm.

However, even though they can sell the shotgun AND the pistol grip to an 18 year old as separate pieces, once the shoulder stock is removed and the pistol grip is attached, now we have an "other firearm" that the FFL can only sell to someone 21 or over and resident of the same state.

mgkdrgn
October 7, 2011, 04:28 PM
In addition... you're going to love this, duns....

An FFL can sell a Persuader shotgun with the shoulder stock attached to an 18 year old. They can sell it to an out-of-state resident (meeting the laws of both states). Because with a shoulder stock installed it is a shotgun. They can sell a pistol grip to a shotgun, not attached to the shotgun, to an 18 year old or out-of-state resident because it is simply an accessory and not any kind of firearm.

However, even though they can sell the shotgun AND the pistol grip to an 18 year old as separate pieces, once the shoulder stock is removed and the pistol grip is attached, now we have an "other firearm" that the FFL can only sell to someone 21 or over and resident of the same state.
Don't have to make sense ... it's da law!

bushmaster1313
October 8, 2011, 10:49 PM
In addition... you're going to love this, duns....

An FFL can sell a Persuader shotgun with the shoulder stock attached to an 18 year old. They can sell it to an out-of-state resident (meeting the laws of both states). Because with a shoulder stock installed it is a shotgun. They can sell a pistol grip to a shotgun, not attached to the shotgun, to an 18 year old or out-of-state resident because it is simply an accessory and not any kind of firearm.

However, even though they can sell the shotgun AND the pistol grip to an 18 year old as separate pieces, once the shoulder stock is removed and the pistol grip is attached, now we have an "other firearm" that the FFL can only sell to someone 21 or over and resident of the same state.


Be careful out there.

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