9mm Load Data Needed


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MoreIsLess
October 4, 2011, 10:00 PM
Can someone suggest some load data for 9mm 115gr FMJ (including OAL). My Lymans book only has JHP for 9mm 115gr.

I've been loading 45.ACP only so far and now am going to do some 9mm. I just got some new dies (lee).

Anything I need to be aware of (besides the obvious) when switching to 9mm from .45

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1SOW
October 4, 2011, 10:11 PM
Hogdon/Winchester load data on-line for one
See Alliant and other powder sites for more load data..

I have the Hogdon/Win data as a PDF file and don't know how to attach it to my post. Tell me how and I'll give you a copy.

9mm is of course a smaller case so OAL/pressure becomes more critical than that big 45 acp case.
The 9mm case is straight, BUT tapered out from top to bottom. A good taper crimp just closes the bell the powder die gives. Approx. .377 to .378 works nicely. The finished round will have a slightly "coke-bottle shape". I for one like the LEE 4-die set with the FCD. The bullet seating/crimp die can be used to crimp or not. The FCD gives a fairly full-length sizing to meet SAAMI limitations and can be used to crimp on the last die..

The typical FMJ is the easiest to load in 9mm. Depending on the pistol, they can be be finical about flat-tip, conical nose or JHP if your chamber is 'tight'.

An easy powder to start with is Win 231/Hp38 because it gives a "wider" load range than many powders like titegroup and actually shoots very well. At light loads it's "sooty" but still shoots well.. After your comfortable with 9mm, try some other powders that may perform better for your individual use.
In my opinion (others not) the 9mm prefers 124/125 gr bullets for less recoil and flip. YMMV

Hope this helps.

bds
October 4, 2011, 10:14 PM
My favorite reference load is 115 gr FMJ with 4.8 gr of W231/HP-38 at 1.125"-1.135" OAL.

Of course, you should always do your own full work up for your pistol/barrel.

bds
October 4, 2011, 10:37 PM
Can someone suggest some load data for 9mm 115gr FMJ (including OAL). My Lymans book only has JHP for 9mm 115gr.
When I can't find load data particular to FMJ bullet, I will often reference JHP load data and conduct my own full work up from the start charge. Alliant load data don't list start charge, but I will use 10-15% below max as my start charge.

Here's more from 2004 Alliant Load Data - http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalogs/2004AlliantPowderSM.pdf

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=150311&stc=1&d=1317778643

squarles67
October 4, 2011, 11:00 PM
Figure out what OAL works in your pistol before you load a bunch. I have to load 124g at 1.06 to get them to feed in my CZ. Just take the barrel out and do the "drop test" to see what fits the chamber.

1SOW
October 4, 2011, 11:09 PM
Figure out what OAL works in your pistol before you load a bunch. I have to load 124g at 1.06 to get them to feed in my CZ.


You left out that it is a JHP or FT or Conical nose bullet you're talking about.
CZ will easily feed 99.5+% of 124 FMJrn @ SAAMI MAX length.

Dr_B
October 4, 2011, 11:23 PM
Anywhere from 4.0 to 4.8 grains of Titegroup works well for 115gr FMJ's. I've tried AA#5 as well but I don't have nearly as many loads done with that powder and I don't have the load data with me at the moment.

noylj
October 4, 2011, 11:25 PM
All jacketed bullets of a given weight are loaded the same EXCEPT for the COL. COL is very critical in 9x19 and .40 S&W. Read your manual and learn how to determine the optimum COL for a given bullet and your gun. Remember the COL is manuals is the minimum you should use with the data.
The world is full of loading data. Use Hodgdon, Alliant, Accurate, and Ramshot web sites for data.
Buy at least two manuals and read them so you know what you are doing.

squarles67
October 4, 2011, 11:28 PM
Quote:
Figure out what OAL works in your pistol before you load a bunch. I have to load 124g at 1.06 to get them to feed in my CZ.

You left out that it is a JHP or FT or Conical nose bullet you're talking about.
CZ will easily feed 99.5+% of 124 FMJrn @ SAAMI MAX length.

Well I guess I'm just the lucky .05% then because mine won't feed MB 125 LRN, or 124g Rem Golden Saber unless I load them to 1.06 and it takes 1.035 with Sierra 125g JHP

My point was he should check the OAL that works is his gun for the bullet he's loading.

Strykervet
October 4, 2011, 11:40 PM
Viht also publishes data online. They have data for Rainier plated too. The OAL is important with 9mm because of so many different bullet types. The powder, if you work up, is similar for any weight. Hornady will give you data for one or two calibres if you call and ask nicely.

If you get the Loadbook for the 9mm though, you are all set. They come in calibre specific booklets, each calibre has data from several bullet makers and several powder makers for thousands of loads overall. I have them in 9mm, 10mm/.40, .223, .308, .45ACP, and .357/.38. They go for $5-$7 each.

If you have a specific load or loads you are looking for, let me know what you have, PM me, and I'll look those up for you.

gamestalker
October 4, 2011, 11:58 PM
I don't know what brand / style FMJ you are using, but I can provide you with at least a few FMJ OAL's.

I have Sierra & Hornady 115 gr. FMJ data showing 1.100". and Speer's 115 gr. TMJ @ 1.135".

I shoot the 115 gr. JHP with 6.2 grs. of HS6 and performance is very nice I feel. I also load with Longshot, but I prefer to use it with the 124 gr. and up bullets.

MoreIsLess
October 5, 2011, 12:06 PM
I made up some dummy rounds with no primer/powder with OAL around 1.155. The max OAL in the SAAMI specs is 1.169 and the factory rounds I have been using run around 1.158. I used the "drop in the barrel test" and the rounds fit perfect like the factory ones.

I then created some charged rounds using 4.2gr of 231 (the range in the charts provided with my Lee dies is 4.2 to 4.8) and the same OAL as the dummy rounds (1.155). I figure I should be good to go.

bds
October 5, 2011, 02:05 PM
Be sure you do function check test by manually feeding the rounds from the magazine and releasing the slide (do not ride the slide with your hand).

Barrel drop test will give you MAX OAL for your barrel. You then need to determine the IDEAL OAL that will reliably feed/chamber.

Then you need to determine the powder charge that will reliably cycle the slide while producing accurate shot groups. For my pistols, 4.5 gr will start to reliably cycle the slide with 4.8 gr producing more accurate shot groups.

1SOW
October 6, 2011, 01:09 AM
Well I guess I'm just the lucky .05% then because mine won't feed MB 125 LRN, or 124g Rem Golden Saber unless I load them to 1.06 and it takes 1.035 with Sierra 125g JHP



The hollowpoints agree with what I said. Your MB-LRN is why I said 99.5%.;)

The drop test gives an oal just touching the rifling. Subtract around .015" from that to get a workable oal that allows for press and bullet variations.

MoreIsLess
October 7, 2011, 03:54 PM
For my pistols, 4.5 gr will start to reliably cycle the slide with 4.8 gr producing more accurate shot groups.
Is that for Win 231?

bds
October 7, 2011, 03:58 PM
Yes, W231.

MoreIsLess
October 7, 2011, 04:04 PM
My favorite reference load is 115 gr FMJ with 4.8 gr of W231/HP-38 at 1.125"-1.135" OAL.

I'll have to try that. I've been using about 4.2gr, I'll have to up it tp 4.5.

Could you elaborate on how to do the MAX OAL test:
Barrel drop test will give you MAX OAL for your barrel. You then need to determine the IDEAL OAL that will reliably feed/chamber.

bds
October 7, 2011, 04:24 PM
Could you elaborate on how to do the MAX OAL test
Walkalong illustrates determining MAX OAL well in this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

Essentially, with the barrel out of the pistol, your test round should fall in the chamber freely and spin without hitting the rifling.

MoreIsLess
October 7, 2011, 05:07 PM
Walkalong illustrates determining MAX OAL well in this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

Essentially, with the barrel out of the pistol, your test round should fall in the chamber freely and spin without hitting the rifling.
I assume that after finding the MAX OAL that finding the IDEAL OAL is more or less trial and error, i.e. what OAL produces the best results on the range, eh?

bds
October 7, 2011, 05:24 PM
Trial and error? no. It is a deliberate process of MAX OAL - IDEAL OAL - Powder work up.

Once you determined the MAX OAL using the barrel drop test, next you determine the IDEAL OAL.

Load the dummy round (no powder/primer to prevent accidental discharge) at MAX OAL in the magazine with the slide locked back. Then release the slide (do not ride the slide with your hand). If MAX OAL feeds/chambers reliably from the magazine, then you can move onto powder work up from start charge.

If the MAX OAL doesn't feed/chamber well, then you'll need to incrementally decrease the OAL (say by .005") until you reach an OAL that will feed/chamber reliably.

Once you determined the IDEAL OAL, then start the powder work up from published start charge and load 10 rounds of each in 0.1 gr powder charge increments. Range test the test loads to determine the powder charge that will reliably cycle the slide and produce accurate shot groups.

bds
October 7, 2011, 05:41 PM
MoreIsLess, let me better explain.

Many people read the published load data and think they must load at the specified OAL in the published load data. This is not the case as published load data are not developed using pistols but rather testing fixtures. The published OAL will not ensure that load will feed/chamber reliably in YOUR pistol/barrel.

So for our pistols/barrels (factory or after market) and for each particular bullet, we must determine the Max OAL, Ideal OAL and the powder charges that will reliably work without exceeding the published max load data as reference.

MoreIsLess
October 7, 2011, 08:31 PM
MoreIsLess, let me better explain.

Many people read the published load data and think they must load at the specified OAL in the published load data. This is not the case as published load data are not developed using pistols but rather testing fixtures. The published OAL will not ensure that load will feed/chamber reliably in YOUR pistol/barrel.

So for our pistols/barrels (factory or after market) and for each particular bullet, we must determine the Max OAL, Ideal OAL and the powder charges that will reliably work without exceeding the published max load data as reference.
Thanks a bunch for your input, it is very much appreciated.

Once I determine the MAX OAL using the barrel drop test and it feeds OK, I am thinking that subsequent rounds may or may not feed since they may have a longer or shorter OAL than the MAX OAL since the case might be a different length than the one used to determine the MAX OAL.

Maybe I am over thinking this.

bds
October 7, 2011, 09:39 PM
It's actually simpler and no need for deep thought. :D And dont' worry, OAL will be determined by the bullet seating die, not the slight variations in the case lengths (just make sure they are full-length sized and drop in the chamber freely).

If your pistol/barrel/magazine feeds/chambers rounds at certain OAL, it may feed shorter OAL rounds also.

The reason why you want your rounds as long as possible (hence determining Max/Ideal OAL) is because longer OAL rounds will allow the bearing surface of the bullet to engage the rifling sooner and produce more consistent chamber pressures - which translates to more accurate shot groups.

Let's say your 9mm Max OAL came out at 1.150" and Ideal OAL at 1.135" but shorter rounds also fed down to 1.100". Chances are rounds at 1.135" will be more accurate than 1.100" rounds (maybe not enough to notice but accuracy is everything for me and I am kinda OCD :uhoh:).

I often load for different pistols (family/friends) and typically will use 1.125"-1.135" OAL for FMJ RN so they will feed/chamber in all of them. When I am loading for accuracy in my pistol, I will use the longest OAL.

MoreIsLess
October 8, 2011, 08:27 AM
And dont' worry, OAL will be determined by the bullet seating die, not the slight variations in the case lengths (just make sure they are full-length sized and drop in the chamber freely).


Mine aren't all the same OAL. Without changeing the settings on the bs die, one round may have an OAL of 1.157 while the next one may be 1.153, then 1.158 and so on. That would be great if they all came out 1.157 (or whatever). Am I doing something wrong?

bds
October 8, 2011, 12:34 PM
I wouldn't worry about slight variations in OAL in the thousandths.

I don't trim semi-auto cases and especially if you use mixed range brass, you'll find slight variations in case length after resizing that will contribute to the variations in the OAL.

Depending on the bullet brand/type you use, you may find variations in the lengths and ogive (nose profile) of the bullets. Bullet seating stem tip shape may also contribute to OAL variation and some reloaders order flat stem to seat flat nose bullets.

Routinely, I check the dies and clean the bullet seating die to remove any crud inside where case neck is taper crimped and bullet seating stem is located. Next I check that bullet seating stem wasn't hanging up
.
Also, if you use a progressive press to reload, you'll get slight variations in the OAL due to some shell plate tilt.

Redneck with a 40
October 8, 2011, 12:36 PM
I'm loading a 115 grain plated bullet with 5.7 grains Unique at 1.130". This load feels just like my factory S&B rounds and they are accurate.

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