show me your groups, factory vs handload!


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nra-for-life
October 4, 2011, 09:45 PM
hey all. i'd like to see comparative pics of your groups that you have shot using factory ammo and then improved groups with handloads using the same rifle (or pistol). Or post a link to a post where you already showed it. thanks - justin

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snuffy
October 4, 2011, 11:17 PM
Factory ammo, WHAT'S THAT?

I seldom buy any. Sorry can't answer your question. Strange ? to ask a bunch of handloaders! :confused:

jcwit
October 4, 2011, 11:33 PM
Don't even own any factory loads except in a few handgun calibers and .22 rimfire. Haven't owned any for over 40 years.

Doug b
October 4, 2011, 11:54 PM
Digital photography was unheard of back in the 70's.

gamestalker
October 5, 2011, 09:47 AM
I don't think your going to get much of a result here. I haven't bought factory in who knows how long. I have shot a box or two that others have brought by over the many years, but I haven't bought any or grouped any in decades.

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"

gamestalker
October 5, 2011, 09:55 AM
I take that back, I do recall a comparison I did a little while back. A friend brought over a box of .270 win. and wanted me to compare it to a reload. I shot at a piece of 1/2" steel and the factory only dented the steel, and the reload blew right through and didn't stop until it passed into a 5 gal water jug and then fracturing the exit side where it came to rest. Both were the same weight bullet of simular integrity, but very different M.V.

nra-for-life
October 5, 2011, 10:29 AM
Factory ammo, WHAT'S THAT?

lol at these responses. you guys are funny... hmmm well i was hoping to see some documented side by side comparisons of accuracy differences... apparently finding a handloader that shoots some factory ammo is about as likely as rosie o'donell to own an ak-47..:neener:

TexasRifleman
October 5, 2011, 10:35 AM
hmmm well i was hoping to see some documented side by side comparisons of accuracy differences

Well, I shoot lots of Blazer, some WWB, and lots of my own loads in 1911s. I have never put any scientific measurements to it but I'll just say that I can't tell any difference in bulk factory ball ammo and my bulk loads out of a Dillon 550, other than price.

With hunting ammo I get maybe 1/4" better groups at 100 yards with my loads vs high dollar factory .30-06.

RandyP
October 5, 2011, 10:45 AM
I confess that EVERY firearm I own and have experienced in over 40 years of shooting them has been more accurate than I am regardless of what ammo I used.

I do not compete in Bullseye pistol or 1000 yard rifle and frankly am completely satisfied that I can always achieve MOD (Minute of Dead) "accuracy" with all my collection.

Unless you plan on becoming a serious competitor? IMHO practice till you can keep everything on a paper plate out to 50 feet and you'll be doing better than most shooters and certainly be more than up to the challenge of self-defense "accuracy" which takes place at 15 feet or less. You might find hickok45's youtube on accuracy informative?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVzSAm5VhfE

Walkalong
October 5, 2011, 11:20 AM
Factory ammo, WHAT'S THAT?Yep, no factory ammo groups here, not in a long, long, time. :)

jfh
October 5, 2011, 05:28 PM
Somewhere, I do have some good comparisons. Both the rangebook notes and the targets.

IIRC, my .45 ACP reloads that cost me 6 cents per round did measure up against the (Winchester?) match ammo that cost about 25 cents per round.

Those would be from ca. 1989, and are back somewhere two moves ago.

I remember being disappointed I was not better with my own handloads--although certain of my guns (notably, an SA Omega 10mm) liked my handloads much better than the factory rounds)--but I sure did like the cost of the handloads.

Jim H.

357Shooter
October 5, 2011, 05:32 PM
Factory Ammo...Have None
Ammo Factory...Have One!

Sorry, had to

chrome_austex
October 5, 2011, 06:26 PM
My home defense ammo are 75 grain Hornady TAP T2. (LC brass, crimped primers, 75 gr hornady bthp w/ cannelure and crimp, mag length)

My match ammo are reloads, but also 75 gr hornady bthp (but no cannelure) in lapua brass w/o crimped bullets or primers. I try to keep my reloads the same velocity as the above factory ammo (2700ish through my 20" barrel)

I think they're pretty close accuracy wise, but I have yet to do a back to back test. Frankly I probably won't bother because:
1) I'd need to shoot 80-200 rounds or more of each just to get a large enough sample size to show a difference, and that factory stuff is pricey and hard to find.
2) I don't have a proper benchrest, so shooter error is too much of a random variable.
3) It won't change my habits, cause I don't have the $$ to buy as much factory match ammo as I like to shoot, and I know my handloads are more accurate than similar cost factory ammo (russian steel case stuff or commercial 55gr reloads).

jacksgd
October 5, 2011, 06:41 PM
The only factory ammo I buy is 100 grain .257 Weatherby mag.
It is the cheapest way for me to get new brass.

Although it is quiet precise ammo (a little over 1"), it is not as precise as my handloads (around .75").

You will have to take my word for it, for I do not have photos of the targets.

My hand loads do run about $50.00 a box cheaper than the premium bullet factory loads though.

Master Blaster
October 5, 2011, 08:37 PM
I load .45 acp, .44 magnum, 9mm, .357 mag, and .38 spl in handgun, as well as .32 acp, and .380. The only factory ammo I have is expensive self defense ammo, and my handloads for practice duplicate it. I havent shot any .45 acp factory ammo groups in about 15 years. Not sure where I would get 185 grain match JSWC remington bullet loaded factory ammo for a comparison???? Or 200 grain LSWC match ammo either, but both my hand loads are tailored to the guns I shoot them in via experimentation with powder charge weight, bullet type, brand, weight, and OAL. When I used to buy speer lawman .45 ammo 1990?? I really wasn't capable of shooting groups with it..

RustyFN
October 5, 2011, 09:32 PM
I haven't bought factory ammo in years, except rimfire.

1SOW
October 5, 2011, 09:42 PM
RustyFN +1

My USPSA pistol groups did tighten up 'cuz the loads are softer with less flip. The 125gr factory ammo I couldn't afford to shoot , now hums nicely out of my pistols at 1/2 WWB (box of 50) 115gr prices..

If I could practically load CCI 22lr "Target" ammo, I would

bluetopper
October 5, 2011, 10:08 PM
Both these targets are from 25yds, one hand bullseye style. I was taught if a gun was meant to be shot with two hands it would have two handles on it. Ammo was my reloads with 200gr cast lead semi wadcutters.
Left is with my Dan Wesson PM-1 and the other is with a gun built by a custom smith from an STI frame and slide. No factory ammo shot, sorry. The reason I reload is to keep from spending money on factory ammo.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/bendebval/100_0746.jpg

1SOW
October 6, 2011, 12:17 AM
Nice groups parasite. 4x, 3x, 1 flyer.
I shot 22 bullseye in the 70's. Later found action shooting and never looked back.
P.S. they DO have two handles, the left grip and the right grip.:neener:;)

SAGEEN
October 6, 2011, 06:41 AM
When shooting factory ammo, I always shot at least a 5" circle with a 1911 45ACP. After starting reloading and figuring out the right formula for my gun (grains, lengths, etc), I was able to get them in a 7/8" circle. I'm pleased. I've never been able to do that with factory ammo.

mrbro
October 7, 2011, 01:20 PM
Huh, what, you mean you can BUY centerfire ammo already assembled? Why?:rolleyes:

RustyFN
October 7, 2011, 02:57 PM
Here are a couple of targets I shot with my AR and my handloads, it has never seen factory ammo. These were shot at 120 yards.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1db34b3127ccefd4bc83136cc00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1db34b3127ccefd4a03b256fe00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1db34b3127ccefd4baa81b77d00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

nra-for-life
October 8, 2011, 06:18 PM
hey rusty,

tell me about your AR.. is it stock? what have you done to it? I have an M&P 15, it shoots like 6 inch groups from a rest at 100y, all ive tried is cheapo factory ammo so far.

thanks - justin

snuffy
October 8, 2011, 06:43 PM
Well, I have a confession to make. I bought some factory loaded 45 acp ammo last week from midway!:uhoh::(:eek::rolleyes::scrutiny:

They were speer gold dot 200 grainers, because I wanted to test them against other HP ammo in 45. Since speer stopped marketing gold dot bullets, I was FORCED to buy factory shells. I beg forgiveness:).

How did it work? Great! I'll put some pics of it up as soon as I have them uploaded. Hint, the expansion was dramatic, they retained 100% of the original weight and penetrated 7 inches of the expansion medium.

crkr
October 8, 2011, 10:19 PM
These are only from 50 yds (it was raining and I shot indoors).

AR15 w/14.5in Daniel Defense barrel. AimPoint Micro T1.

10 rounds each target.

Black Hills red box 55 gr FMJ

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3541/imgp4680resize.jpg


Hornady 55 gr FMJ, 25 gr H335, Rem 7.5 primer, mixed head stamp brass. The flyer was 100% JOTT.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9827/imgp4681resize.jpg

RustyFN
October 8, 2011, 10:41 PM
hey rusty,

tell me about your AR.. is it stock? what have you done to it? I have an M&P 15, it shoots like 6 inch groups from a rest at 100y, all ive tried is cheapo factory ammo so far.

thanks - justin

Justin,

It's a stock AR. It's a Rock River 16" with 1:9 twist. I am shooting mixed brass, 24.8 grains of H-335, bullet is a bulk Hornady 55 grain FMJ-BT. It has been a good accurate load for me so far. That was the first time using the rest. I'm hoping to go to the range tomorrow and try to tighten it up a little more.

crkr
October 8, 2011, 10:55 PM
Justin,

It's a stock AR. It's a Rock River 16" with 1:9 twist. I am shooting mixed brass, 24.8 grains of H-335, bullet is a bulk Hornady 55 grain FMJ-BT. It has been a good accurate load for me so far. That was the first time using the rest. I'm hoping to go to the range tomorrow and try to tighten it up a little more.
Rusty,

That last 3 shot groups looks to be about 3/4 MOA?
Very nice for a stock RRA. I assume you are using optics as opposed to irons?

crkr
October 8, 2011, 11:02 PM
nra,

I have an older M&P 15T and it's stupid accurate for an off the shelf AR.

Last time I shot any factory ammo with it, it was MOA at 200 yds with Rem UMC 55 gr.

Most M&T have a 1/9 twist. What weight bullets are you shooting? Could it be you are shooting heavier bullets than it can stabilize?

RustyFN
October 8, 2011, 11:15 PM
I assume you are using optics as opposed to irons?

Yes. I can't see that far with the irons and these old eyes.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dc07b3127ccec6213e2b80a500000040O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Seedtick
October 9, 2011, 12:04 AM
I don't have any targets around anymore to show it but back when I started loading I was tickled with how much better my stuff shot.

It doesn't really matter though, I was looking at the price of factory ammo a while back and if I didn't reload I wouldn't be doing much shooting.

The last time I bought factory 7 mag ammo it was around $10 a box. You could catch it on sale after hunting season and get it for $8. It's ridiculous what they want for it now! :eek:


Rusty,
You part your hair just like I do
right down the middle and W I D E....:neener:

Seedtick

:)

crkr
October 9, 2011, 12:23 AM
Yes. I can't see that far with the irons and these old eyes.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dc07b3127ccec6213e2b80a500000040O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
ROFL - I feel your pain.

I used to qual with a mid 240s on the KD. Now I get a headache trying to focus on the front sight.

cfullgraf
October 9, 2011, 12:33 AM
I do buy a little factory ammunition for a new rifle. I like to "calibrate" the rifle for the velocity I get with factory ammunition. It is another piece of information I use in developing good loads.

But, I don't keep the targets, either factory or handloads groups. I got enough useless paper stored around my house. i do record the groups though.

grubbylabs
October 9, 2011, 02:07 AM
The only time I buy factory ammo is when I buy a new gun and have not had a chance to load for it. And then it is as cheap as I can find.

RNG
October 9, 2011, 05:13 AM
Hornady Factory ammo does ok but not near as good as handloads. Sorry - No pics of the factory stuff.

18" RRA upper w/YM NM Chrome BCG/Palmetto State Lower w/RRA 2 stage NM FCG & cheap optics- 69gr SMK w/25.5g w748 LC04 Brass.

10 shots 100yds.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii71/trimadge/Targets-AR/AR-15RRAVarmentLarge.jpg

20" Remington R25 (actually DPMS) .308 w/RRA 2 stage NM FCG & Cheap optics
168g SMK w/42.2g Varget Win Brass

Testing loads - 3 shots 100yds.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii71/trimadge/Targets-AR/2011-04Apr16-RemingtonR25targets-06Large.jpg

Regards,
Richard

nra-for-life
October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
wow, my AR does not perform even close to the level of what you guys are showing. i consider myself a pretty decent shooter, i mean off a rest i can get moa, to sub moa groups with my bolt actions, but my s&w mp 15 just seems inherintly innaccurate compared to what you guys are showing me. time to try some different ammo i guess. ive been punching like 6 inch groups at 100 yards.

JDGray
October 10, 2011, 05:03 PM
Heres one for you:)
Shot at 300yrds, Savage 10FP .308, Fed American Eagle 150gr Vs. Handloads. The factory ammo measured 6":o
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/004-5.jpg

RNG
October 10, 2011, 05:07 PM
Nice

nra-for-life
October 10, 2011, 06:18 PM
JDGrey, nice improvements there!

JDGray
October 10, 2011, 07:02 PM
Thanks! The remaining factory ammo became trade fodder after that:)

MattTheHat
October 10, 2011, 10:56 PM
Factory ammo is like a frozen TV dinner. It's got everything you need in one convenient package with almost no effort. But you really don't enjoy it. ;)

-Matt

Jasper1573
October 11, 2011, 09:56 PM
About the time I started reloading, I started shooting out past 100 yards, so I don't have any factory ammo comparisons to this, but I prefer shooting the stuff I reload even if factory ammo can match this example.

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