[Boomie]

I have a Wiselite Sterling 9mm. If I wanted to SBR it and get a silencer, would that be one or two tax stamps?

[rcmodel]

The SBR and suppressor are two separate "firearms" so you will need two stamps.

rc

[briansmithwins]

You could get away with one if you left the barrel 16" long and did a integral suppressor.

Otherwise it would be 2 stamps.

BSW

[redbullitt]

Bite the bullet and get both! Then you can suppress other things.

[Boomie]

I only have one 9mm. The idea of an integral supressor intrigues me though. Is that just a suppressor that is pinned in place?

[MasterSergeantA]

Not really. It is generally more a silencer that is built around the barrel. The barrel is often ported and becomes an actual part of the silencer. Pinning a suppressor in place is sometimes done to keep the barrel at a length greater than 16" to avoid the SBR issue. But there is a very specific process and order of steps involved in doing that without creating a possible legal problem. Easier on some guns than on others.

[Al Thompson]

Boomie,

Here's a integral suppressor on a M&P 15-22.

http://innovativearms.com/

[Boomie]

Where would one go to have something like that made (it sounds like it is made rather then installed)?

[Al Thompson]

It would go to the manufacturer. :)

[rjrivero]

Boomie,

Drop a line to SRT ARMS. (http://www.srtarms.com/custom.htm) They make integral suppressors for AR's and I imagine they could for your sterling.

Do you have a 9mm suppressor already? Would you be interested in using a suppressor for your sterling and a 9mm pistol and switching them back and forth?

If so, consider having the barrel cut down, and a shroud perm attached to bring the overall length to 16". You could then attach our suppressor INSIDE of the shroud without having to pay the SBR tax. I'm currently working on a setup like this for my 9mm AR using a SWR Trident. If it works as expected, I expect it will become available commercially through our local AR Custom Shop.

[MasterSergeantA]

rj...any way to get some more details/pictures/drawings (without breaching any patent restrictions) on the setup you describe? It sound similar to the XRP barrels that TacSol was offering. Would it still use a free float handguard? Or would it BE the handguard?

[Boomie]

@ rjrivero: Not only do I not have a 9mm supressor, I don't have a 9mm pistol, nor do I have any plans to get one. That's why the idea of a integrated supressor appeals to me.

[rjrivero]

Boomie....if that is the case, then consider going with SRT.

The problem they come up with is that a 16" barrel with an integrated suppressor looses velocity in the 147gr bullet offerings. If I remember correctly, they put out about 850-875ish FPS in factory loaded 147gr bullets.

I did some preliminary testing on 147gr bullets in my 9mm SBR AR and my 16" AR using the same ammo from the same box. (American Eagle 147gr factory loads) The 8" barrel pushed about 1024fps and the 16" barrel was pushing 912fps. It looks as if the long barrel, blowback bolt, and heavy bullet loose efficiency in that particular combination.

You might consider having a perm attached suppressor on the end of like a 8" or 5" barrel. You could build or have built, a suppressor of 11" on it and that would be pretty darned quiet.

[rjrivero]

rj...any way to get some more details/pictures/drawings (without breaching any patent restrictions) on the setup you describe? It sound similar to the XRP barrels that TacSol was offering. Would it still use a free float handguard? Or would it BE the handguard?

If you can wait until friday, I'll have the actual unit in my hot little hands......I'll charge up the camera and take some pictures for you! If you PM me your email, I'll be happy to forward you the drawings I made for the machinist. No big secret really. The big question will be if the shroud should be "vented" as to not be considered a suppressor in it's own right.

[MasterSergeantA]

Venting would probably be the safest route, but the golfball launchers that are made for ARs screw on the muzzle and are not considered 'suppressors', nor are the fake cans that are sold pretty widely. One might argue that a vented shroud inside a solid handguard...like the Hogue model...might actually reduce the sound a bit. when dealing with the ATF, it is anybody's guess. Maybe F&F will keep them busy for a while and they won't bother us po' folk.

[rjrivero]

@MasterSergeantA: The carbine hand guard will still be shorter than the rifled barrel, so the suppressor shroud would hang out the front end 6". Unless I decided to go with a Mid Length or Rifle Length Hand Gaurd. Hopefully there will be enough room to find one that would go over the shroud if I decided to go that way with it.

@boomie: I found out that Red Jacket is making an integrally suppressed 9mm Upper as well. They're building on a 5" barrel with (I presume) 11" of suppressor tacked on the end. They claim, "There is nothing quieter." LINK HERE (http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=2&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=5).

[Boomie]

Yeah, but I want to suppress a Sterling, not an AR. I'm fearful custom work will co$t too much.

[rjrivero]

I realize your goal. What you're going to have to find is a shop that will mock one up for you. The best way to find that is to find the shops that are already doing it and ask them if they can apply their product to your needs.

Custom work doesn't necessarily mean high dollar. There is a local shop that I'm working with that is going to help me make a 5" barreled 9mm with integral suppressor when the Form 1 comes back.

The cost will be for material and the time will be after hours. If it goes well, then they'll go ahead and start building them for sale. (I'm going form 1 simply because of my own VANITY. I want to put MY OWN NAME on the side of the can. ;)) However, that process can be a bit lengthy.

The uppers built by SRT for example are no more expensive than buying a suppressor itself, provided you send them your upper. Last I checked, they were about $650.

The Red Jacket offering can EASILY be adapted to ANY 9mm rifle platform. They are just chopping the barrel and building a perm can on the end. If they can do it on an AR, they surely can do it on a Sterling.

You won't know if it's "too costly" unless you get some quotes for the work. Send a few emails. You might be pleasantly surprised at the quotes you get back. Is it worth spending that much on the Sterling? That's up to the buyer. If you were considering $400 in tax stamps, for the SBR and the suppresor, plus the cost of the suppressor, another say, $650 depending on which you go with, then $650 for the integral build plus the $200 for the stamp all of a sudden seems cheap in comparison, by a couple hundred dollars, plus the cost of having the barrel cut down, crowned and threaded.

Please keep us updated.

RJ

[rjrivero]

A couple more places to check:

S&H Arms (http://www.sandharms.com/)

John's Guns (http://www.fullysuppressed.com/arplatform.html)

I know each of these shops has made one-off's in the past as well.

[rjrivero]

If you can wait until friday, I'll have the actual unit in my hot little hands......I'll charge up the camera and take some pictures for you! If you PM me your email, I'll be happy to forward you the drawings I made for the machinist. No big secret really. The big question will be if the shroud should be "vented" as to not be considered a suppressor in it's own right.

This is going to take a little longer. Had a different idea in the mean time and we will see if it pans out. Maybe another week for the suggested "change" in "design." Will keep you updated.

[dprice3844444]

well,depending on how long the barrel is,you could order a wiselite in the long frame length,do not have them drill the cooling holes,and fit an internal suppressor inside there or extending a bit past the original muzzle like an mp5sd

[rjrivero]

boomie,

Stalking Rhino Industries makes custom integral suppressors. You might want to give them a call for your custom build.

http://www.stalkingrhino.com/