NAGR


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wannabeagunsmith
October 5, 2011, 07:50 PM
Any other members out there?

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alsaqr
October 5, 2011, 11:27 PM
Not this guy. NAGR has been in operation since about 2002. NAGR made no monetary donations to candidates until 2010. NAGR and its self serving owner Dudley Brown are a joke.

Contributions to political candidates by gun rights organizations in 2010:

1. The NRA
2. An organization many gunowners have never heard of.
Last. NAGR

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/industry.php?txt=Q13&cycle=2010

Bartholomew Roberts
December 28, 2011, 03:59 PM
Recently, this thread on AR15.com popped up in which a poster accused the National Association of Gun Rights of lying about the current law in order to generate money for the organization (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1269051_Scam_being_run_by_the_National_Association_for_Gun_Rights.html&page=1).

The letter went like this:

I’m in a bind.

It’s illegal for me to tell you which candidates the National Association for Gun Rights PAC supports. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Federal Election Commission (FEC) expressly forbid me from telling you which candidates are so solid on gun rights that I want you to help us help them.

It sounds crazy, I know.

But the anti-gun Obamacrats who run the federal government don’t want gun owners and activists like you and me to be organized going into the 2012 election.

That’s why the IRS/FEC will only let me tell “a restricted class” of “legal members” of the National Association for Gun Rights who they should –– and shouldn’t –– support in the election.

The good news is, I’ve found a loophole around their legal gag, and frankly it’s pretty easy.

All you need to do is chip in at least $5 (or more), and take a positive pro-gun action, and you can then be counted as part of our “legal membership.”


Mr. Brown gives his response in the thread and I found it lacking in a great many respects. Since his alerts regularly get reposted to this forum and the organization has been discussed several times in the past, I thought it would be worthwhile to share the AR15.com thread so other Second Amendment supporters can form their own opinion of the organization and decide whether it warrants their support.

alsaqr
December 28, 2011, 06:31 PM
Yep, Dudley Brown stirred it up on that forum. Every gun rights organization out there backs candidates for political office.

IMO: Dudley Brown is a self serving shyster whos made a career of bashing the NRA. Beware of any so called "gun rights" organization that has a "donate now" on its homepage. Brown finally made a very small monetary contribution to our gun rights in 2010. It's much too small to show up on this chart:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?cycle=2010&ind=Q13

LawScholar
December 28, 2011, 06:55 PM
Yep, Dudley Brown stirred it up on that forum. Every gun rights organization out there backs candidates for political office.

IMO: Dudley Brown is a self serving shyster whos made a career of bashing the NRA. Beware of any so called "gun rights" organization that has a "donate now" on its homepage. Brown finally made a very small monetary contribution to our gun rights in 2010. It's much too small to show up on this chart:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?cycle=2010&ind=Q13

+1. My email address got sold and I got his email for awhile. Blatant fearmongering for cash. The NRA sometimes is guilty of that, but at least they DO something with the money.

Oh, and as someone FROM Wyoming, he severely oversells his work on Constitutional Carry here. It was never an uphill battle, and I never even heard his name until I saw him in the signing picture.

Edit:

HOLY COW. I just read that whole thread on AR-15 where, for pages, he refused to even address an outright lie in his fundraising email.

Any doubts I had about his lack of scruples are gone.

wannabeagunsmith
December 29, 2011, 12:40 AM
Hey, that message is the same as his email he sends me every few days....I always thought it sounded strange....

JimPage
December 29, 2011, 10:07 PM
Brown is either an idiot or a con man.

He seems too smart to be an idiot. :D

Bartholomew Roberts
December 31, 2011, 10:40 PM
Mr. Brown has acknowledged his PAC is not prevented from yelling you who they endorse.

Don Wills
February 12, 2012, 04:26 PM
I'm a newbie to THR. I have a somewhat different take on the issues discussed in this thread. I've never met Mr. Brown. I have no idea what his motives are. NAGR is not directly involved in Wyoming gun rights issues.

Wyoming Gun Owners Association, which has a loose association with NAGR, was the organization responsible for putting the pressure on Wyoming legislators to enact the Wyoming FFA in 2010 and the license-free concealed carry law (Constitutional carry) in 2011. GOA and the NRA were missing in action in each of those legislative battles.

Don Wills
Laramie County, Wyoming

LawScholar
February 13, 2012, 01:51 AM
I'm a newbie to THR. I have a somewhat different take on the issues discussed in this thread. I've never met Mr. Brown. I have no idea what his motives are. NAGR is not directly involved in Wyoming gun rights issues.

Wyoming Gun Owners Association, which has a loose association with NAGR, was the organization responsible for putting the pressure on Wyoming legislators to enact the Wyoming FFA in 2010 and the license-free concealed carry law (Constitutional carry) in 2011. GOA and the NRA were missing in action in each of those legislative battles.

Don Wills
Laramie County, Wyoming

Man it's nice when a fellow Wyomingite helps dispel that "NAGR got con-carry in Wyoming" myth.

tmoore912
August 13, 2013, 02:03 PM
Dudley Brown's War

http://www.5280.com/magazine/2013/08/Dudley-browns-war?page=0,0

He’s built RMGO and the National Association for Gun Rights (NAGR) into a double-barreled fund-raising machine that bullies anyone who compromises Brown’s pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-gay agenda. (A favorite showy tactic is driving around in a Pinzgauer, a boxy, big-wheeled Cold War–era Austrian troop truck that Brown calls his “political pain delivery vehicle.”) Says former state Representative B.J. Nikkel, a Larimer County Republican who ran afoul of Brown last year after she voted for civil unions legislation: “He’s a political terrorist and a modern-day charlatan who operates in the shadows and portrays himself as a supposed ‘Christian,’ but he uses the people naive enough to believe him and financially support him.”

He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue.


It turns out this modern-day Machiavelli amasses more influence and income when his party loses than when it wins. By taking out moderate Republicans in primary races, he’s left the GOP with fewer officeholders . . . . . . As Democratic majorities at the state Capitol pass more progressive laws, Brown’s members have begun to literally hit a panic button: the “contribute” links in his organization’s near-constant emails. It’s created a golden opportunity for Brown—and maybe for Democrats, too. Progressive activist Ted Trimpa, an architect of the Colorado Democracy Alliance, says Brown’s nefarious ways have aided his causes . . .


“[Brown] wants us in the minority,” says Nicolais, now a Republican candidate for one of the more competitive state Senate seats in 2014. “For him, it’s mostly about a mailing list.” That’s because whenever he watches a pet issue flame out, Brown knows he’s won: Consider that in the several months it took the gun control bills to go from Democratic proposals to law, the NAGR’s membership numbers exploded. Suddenly, the cash is rolling into Brown’s office faster than his interns can count it, so anyone who concludes he lost because the bills he opposed were passed may simply be looking at the wrong scoreboard.



NAGR's local affiliate organization here in Georgia is called Georgia Gun Owners or GGO for short. They are not doing Georgians any favors here either with regards to helping us regain/expand our carry rights.

kendak
August 18, 2013, 11:41 AM
anyone know/heard of "The National Association For Gun Rights" ..?? got a mail out asking for a "contribution" ....thanks

calward
August 18, 2013, 11:47 AM
Get their stuff all the time. I have not sent a contribution because I prefer to focus on the NRA which I know gets results. Not sure what the NAGR has actually achieved. Same with GOA (Gun Owners of America )

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Sam1911
August 18, 2013, 11:58 AM
Just had a thread on them: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=618429

Not a very positive impression, I'm afraid.

barnbwt
August 18, 2013, 04:18 PM
Not sure I follow the logic in that article, of course when a special interest group's special interest is threatened the members pony up more cash :scrutiny:

That's how they all work, right? The difference with the NAGR is that they've been caught routinely lying about the state of things, making unfounded alarmist proclamations, and supporting a litany of causes that have nothing to do with firearms as a way to rope in more donors. That last point is the real reason we should avoid them like the plague. And the next point is because they haven't accomplished much (compared with real advocacy organizations) besides annoy and harass people on their mailing list.

Any organization "grows by leaps and bounds" when its issue is threatened and there is a true public desire to defend it. Advocacy groups don't (and never) do "reverse psychology" and actively help the opposition --word would get out, and besides, they don't need to. The NRA or the Brady Campaign or anyone else can always demand more if they win, and beg and plead for more support if they lose. It's the way of things, and the best way to determine if a policy issue has more public support than rejection. The NRA has shown time and again that they make far more efficient use of donor's money than other "similar" organizations like NAGR purports to be.

TCB

kendak
August 18, 2013, 08:46 PM
thanks

Bubbles
August 19, 2013, 09:23 AM
If you're on ar15.com there's a very long thread in the General Discussion forum about them that is quite enlightening, especially once the founder starts posting in it.

LewSchiller
August 19, 2013, 09:39 AM
Apparently his favorite tactic is to run third party candidates against you of you don't sponsor his bills. These third party candidates can siphon off enough votes to get the Democrat elected in tight races.

tmoore912
August 19, 2013, 09:49 AM
Another perspective on the same issue.


Hollow Rhetoric versus Measurable Results in the War on Guns (http://hareforcolorado.blogspot.com/2013/04/hollow-rhetoric-versus-measurable.html?m=1)


NRA-ILA’s legislative victory stands in sharp contrast to what happened here in Colorado in March, where a flood a draconian gun control bills sailed through the Colorado legislature, and swiftly were signed into law by the Governor. So, how did two legislative battles so similar in substance, have such markedly different outcomes?

One could sum it up in two words; Dudley Brown.

. . . we know a little more about where Brown has been directing RMGO’s money, time, and energy over the years. Here’s a hint: it hasn’t been spent defending the Second Amendment.

Apparently, Mr. Brown has been (for many years) using third-party “front groups” that claim to represent hot-button social issues (like abortion and gay marriage), but in reality, are little more than direct mail operations designed to “punish” Mr. Brown’s opponents. When voters receive these last-minute attack mailers they get the impression that the candidate in question (whichever candidate Mr. Brown opposes at the time) are also opposed by a “wide spectrum” of other conservative groups. The mailers are often completely false, as with my own legislative race, where Dudley’s Beltway minions sent pieces that claimed that I was pro-gay rights and “soft” on Pro-Life issues. Anyone that knows me, knows these claims are laughable. But by then, the damage has been done.

I use the term front group intentionally because there is little evidence these groups do anything except serve as a sort of “ideological back channel,” for operators like Brown. These “groups” have no real influence of their own (at either the state or federal level), they produce no publications of any substance (either in the policy or legislative arena), and their money (and direction) comes primarily from other conservative groups seeking to use them as “cover” for their electioneering (excuse me “voter education”) activities.

Sam1911
August 19, 2013, 10:54 AM
Yup. That thread is quoted in the thread I linked.

hso
August 19, 2013, 02:31 PM
I'm going to assume that the current interest is due to fundraising efforts on their part. We've had topics on them before the current group and the story on them never gets any better.

tmoore912
August 20, 2013, 07:37 PM
The current interest in NGAR and their Georgia state affiliate, Georgia Gun Owners (GGO) doesn't really come down to their fundraising.

It has to do with their "Confrontational Politics" that they engage in. It is getting them nowhere with regards to helping pass significant pro gun legislation.

They have been making a mess of policy making for pro gun legislation since 2010. They aren't trying to work with anyone at the Capitol. They just like to rile up their masses through half truth email blast.

The Legislators hold them in very low regard. It's more complicated and detailed than this, but that's the Big Picture...........so they say.

http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/08/13/re-confrontational-politics-and-the-second-amendment/

Bartholomew Roberts
September 19, 2013, 07:24 PM
Since this is kind of the "catch-all" NAGR thread, I thought I would post this link to several of Colorado's Basic Freedom Defense Fund founders discussing Rocky Mountain Gun Owners/NAGR/Dudley Brown: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1534855_Dudley_Brown_and_RMGO_soliciting_contributions_for_a_lawsuitr_in_Colorado.html

Short version: They did not have nice things to say. Had they followed the advice Brown they say gave them, John Morse would have never been recalled.

s9601694
January 16, 2014, 05:49 PM
I've been getting "Your Membership Has Expired" emails from RMGO (Mr. Brown's Colorado group).. Pretty irritating because I am a Life Member..

Having said that, I was always a fan of RMGO when i lived in Colorado, I believe it is a good thing to support a State gun rights group. The whole "gun drama" (all dem laws and later the recalls) happened after I left. But following it from a distance, i am not impressed with the effort RMGO put into that whole episode.

I always liked their marketplace site though.

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