"Scout" rifle


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txgunsuscg
October 7, 2011, 08:50 PM
So technically, 2 of the 3 options are pseudo-Scout, but I'm operating in an urban environment so I don't technically need a gun that is "powerful enough to kill any living target of reasonable size" per the good Colonel. Any thoughts welcome

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Jonny V
October 7, 2011, 10:25 PM
Closest thing I have to your options is a Marlin GBL in 45/70. Look at it this way, you could always use the really hot bear loads for car-stopping duty!:evil:

gunnutery
October 7, 2011, 10:33 PM
Each option would work well, but I chose the mini14 route.

Canazes9
October 7, 2011, 10:44 PM
http://www.steyrarms.com/products/hunting-rifles/scout/

Loosedhorse
October 7, 2011, 10:50 PM
Scout rifle? Cooper would have frowned on a weight beyond 3kg, and absolutely shuddered at .223.

Closest option is your .30-30.

If you want an "urban rifle" rather than a Scout, just get an AR-15; no shame in that. But don't call a .223 a Scout.

Here's an idea: CZ 7.62x39. You'd have to shift the scope mounts.

http://www.cz-usa.com/assets/cache/1a/5d/1a5d74d2e54c2a1b5d7208084c9640a0.png

Sheepdog1968
October 7, 2011, 11:16 PM
What u need to do is to decide what u need, want it for. This is key for determining what you want. All are good rifles in your list. Mine is a mixture of hunting and social plinking. I fell I love with lever actions so I've started there. My other hunting rifle is a 30-06 bolt action with normal 4x scope. At some point I want a light weight 308 Scout that will likely replace the 30-06 and have about equal time in the field as the lever action. Yes, I have taken the lever action to a 4 day rifle class as its often what I take with me when I travel. Having said that, if there was a bump in the night at where I live, I'd grab a mini-14 before grabbing the lever action.

Don357
October 7, 2011, 11:25 PM
I have a M48 Yugo Mauser with a 4X32 NcStar LER/pistol scope, on a 'scout' mount that replaces the rear sight. Works fine!

AuthorityDenied
October 8, 2011, 02:04 AM
Mosin M44

billymarr
October 8, 2011, 03:20 AM
Depending on what the situtation is.
I being a former U.S. Army Cav scout and did it for 10+ years. In combat too.
I would go with the MINI 14 my preference would be the MINI 30 though.
He is why a scout ( in my situation ) maintains visual contac and if spotted does not become desicively engaged but falls back and reports and calls for back up.
Now a .223 is good for carring more ammo but penetration wise it is minimal on soft skin targets or in homes. The 7.62X39 is better for penetration. The ammo is not much heavier.
Before we get into accuraccy at distance remember not to get in a shoot out you cant win. Scoot out and report.
As for carring in brush for hunting out to 150m the 7.62X39 wins again. For any thing out to 500 both are the wrong choice. Remember comapact and sturdy does not allways equal good for long range.
Now I have been known to stash a long range gun at a fall back position then you can take your time and pick them off. That is a situation that is winnable with the right back up.
So you need to dicide what is the most likely situation you will find youre self in and plan around that and then look at any other scenarios you may find youre self in. You may fine two different weapons are needed. As with anything one tool does not allways fit all situations.

Art Eatman
October 8, 2011, 10:56 AM
The utility of any sort of Scout rifle depends pretty much on the planned use. Hard to offer any useful advice or suggestions without knowing that...

Kendal Black
October 8, 2011, 11:58 AM
I voted for the .30-30 because it has been a good option in an all-around light rifle for 116 years. Fixing it up in scout rifle trim will not hurt its utility, any may help in some circumstances.

Rexster
October 8, 2011, 12:18 PM
I cannot speak one way or the other regarding the Amega mount, but for "urban" use, the Mini-14 is already my choice for a utility carbine. One of mine has a Sage International SCAR stock, with a rail that allows forward mounting of an optic. The Aimpoint Micro is certainly a good optic; I have a T-1 that was mounted on another rifle, and it may end up on the Mini with the SCAR stock.

There is certainly nothing wrong with a Marlin lever rifle in this role. I own lever rifles other than Marlins.

I did not vote for the Mini, as it was coupled with Amega in the poll, and I have no personal experience with Amega rails, nor do I know anyone using an Amega product.

txgunsuscg
October 8, 2011, 02:09 PM
To explain a bit more of what I intend the scout type for... I am looking for something for 25 - 200 yards. I live in a fairly urban environment, and I view myself as competent enough with a pistol to handle anything within 25 yards (although I already violate the Colonel's orders by carrying a 9mm, but whatever).

I considered a Mauser or Mosin, but to add the scout mount requires removing the back up sights. From experience, I always want a pair of back ups because when (not if) my optics fail, I still need to aim. XS does make a ghost ring sight that can be added to a Mauser, but it requires drilling and tapping, and I'm looking for something I can do in my garage....

SharpsDressedMan
October 8, 2011, 03:47 PM
Just go with the Ruger or Savage Scout, in .308. Standard, worldwide cartridge, capable of long range shooting if necessary, superior pentration to the other rounds, and the rifles more closely fit the "everything" capability. Plus, they are almost shooter ready as-is.

langloisandy
October 8, 2011, 04:09 PM
I voted other, have you looked at the Ruger Scout or the Savage?

Andy

451 Detonics
October 8, 2011, 04:10 PM
Guess how I voted...lol
The scope is on QD rings for fast iron sight access...

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/336marlin-1.jpg

txgunsuscg
October 8, 2011, 04:36 PM
I did consider the Ruger, Savage, and Steyr. The Steyr was eliminated almost immediately, mostly for its insane price, but also for its total lack of iron sights. The Savage's sights look pretty flimsy on their site, but I have no first hand experience. Of the three, I was most impressed by the Ruger. However, I currently see no need for a .308 in my environment, and I am not very handy with a bolt gun. My LGS has a 336 for under $300 I believe, so the only thing I would have to add is the irons and the rail (the sight is going to cost the same no matter what gun I put it on). They also have an 1894 for $500, and I already own the Mini-14....

Fred Fuller
October 8, 2011, 05:20 PM
Personally I don't see the utility in forward mounting a scope on a Marlin lever gun. You can mount a low powered or low range variable in the usual place on the receiver and be just as well off in my limited experience. I tried it on a .45-70 because everyone said it was the thing to do, but I'm just as happy with my 336 in .30-30 with the scope mounted on the receiver, and it cost less out the door. I've also made up a couple of pseudo Scouts on Mauser actions (one of them is a Steyr, so there) in .308, so I've at least played around with the concept a bit. Of course, YMMV...

lpl

txgunsuscg
October 8, 2011, 05:27 PM
When I say Steyr, I don't refer to all Steyrs, just specifically to the Scout model, which, without any back up sights, is almost $1k more than the Ruger or the Savage.... At least the Ruger or Savage you can shoot right out of the box without a dot or scope...

I researched Samco last night, and they do have some barreled actions that could be turned into a fun sporter or scout....

The CZ does look tempting. I carry their pistols, and I would love to see what their rifles are like...

Detonics, is that a 45-70?

Sheepdog1968
October 8, 2011, 06:16 PM
Since the OP follow up doesn't seem to indicate an interest in hunting and its more of for an urban environment, I'd opt for a semiauto. I'd likely go with either a mini-14 or mini-30 at that point.

Choco
October 8, 2011, 08:12 PM
When I say Steyr, I don't refer to all Steyrs, just specifically to the Scout model, which, without any back up sights, is almost $1k more than the Ruger or the Savage.... At least the Ruger or Savage you can shoot right out of the box without a dot or scope..

The Steyr Scout has folding iron sights:

Front sight
http://www.steyrscout.org/fs.jpg

Rear sight
http://www.steyrscout.org/rs.jpg

Or at least used to. It's true it's overpriced, especially for the American buyer. Much better rifle than the other two. (I owned one in .376 Steyr)

I was excited when the Ruger when it came out. The "Gunsite" bullshyte bugged me (I don't like to pay extra for silly -and fake- branding), but I've been a Ruger fan for years, so as I would have to have one imported specially for myself, I ask an American gunsmith friend of mine to make a review.

This is what he wrote:

-Overpriced semi-proprietary single stack mag that can't take strippers or be topped off with scope in place, defeating part of the "Scout" concept.
-Muzzle brake is garbage.
-Trigger is soggy.
-Sights were either crappy and hard to align.
-Whole rifle feels cheap and shoddy.

Conclusion: A Savage is half the price and better.

Just my two cents.

Regards

txgunsuscg
October 8, 2011, 08:38 PM
I apologize, then, Steyr makes no mention of the sights on their website and don't show them in any of the pictures. The Savage is cheaper than the Ruger, but not by half, more like by $50 to $100...

336A
October 9, 2011, 12:51 PM
I would go with the basic 336 rifle with the scope mounted in the conventional way. The .30 WCF will do a lot better than most folks realize. I laugh when folks sit idly by claiming that it ain't good for anything much beyond 100yd, or that it is only good for deer:rolleyes: Someone forgot to tell this Moose that http://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/scrapbook/first-moose-jessica-swanson

During the great ammo dry up all of the .223, .270 Win, 308 Win, and 30-06 ammo was pretty much void on the store shelves, such was not the case for the .30-30. Prices are cheaper for the .30-30 also which is another plus.

scramasax
October 9, 2011, 01:50 PM
I agree about the 336. It is faster than most can manipulate a boltgun. Also you might think about a BLR. The reason I would is box magazine loaded, and the takedown option.

Saying that I have vested myself in two Marlin carbines one .357 and one .41 also rifles and pistols to match. Also 30-30 336 shortened to 16''. All are wearing XS gold line front an ghostring rear sights. The 336 also has a 1-4 scope.

The other good caliber in 336 is the .35 REM. There are some very interesting loads you can find in manuals.

Cheers,

ts

Ranger30-06
October 9, 2011, 08:54 PM
For a scout rifle, I would prefer something short, light, and powerful with a decent amount of rounds.

I voted for the .44 Marlin, but my #1 choice would be the Ruger Scout Rifle with a red dot sight. It would give me .308 power in a light, short package with pretty nice magazine capacity. Without a scope in the way, I don't think a lot of people know how fast you can cycle a bolt action.

leeroy71
October 9, 2011, 10:49 PM
What? No AR's? Say it ain't so.

Just kidding. The last thread I was on hialed the AR as the "Holy Grail". Not hatin', just iratated. Not everyone loves the AR and clones.

AS for scout rifle, I'd have to say the new gunsite from ruger is an outstanding example.

bowyer19
October 10, 2011, 01:00 PM
I tried the scout scope concept on a M-94 ,30-30. It was fine except when I carried the rifle in rain or snow. Then the balance point was such that it was too easy to get water or snow on the rear lense rendering the scope useless until the lense was cleaned. Not good if you need a shot in a hurry. I found a low power scope (or a variable starting at low power no higher than 3X at the bottom) to be as fast or faster and never had a problem in 45 years of carrying that set up except in a blizzard when only irons would have worked.

CraigC
October 10, 2011, 01:09 PM
I voted 336 .30-30 but I'd rather have a traditional 1-4x than a forward mounted scout scope.

redbullitt
October 10, 2011, 05:39 PM
I picked 44 mag option because you could share ammunition with a pistol. If no pistol, then the mini 14 is looking pretty good to me simply because the ammo is light weight, common, and works well.

SharpsDressedMan
October 10, 2011, 06:09 PM
Butler Creek caps keep the rain & snow out, and flip up fast. No need to have the weather foil your shots anymore. :)

nortexeric
October 10, 2011, 06:19 PM
I voted other...

Not saying the levers were a bad choice. In fact, I almost voted for the 30-30 option. Since I assume ARs are out of the discussion, I'll present what I'm doing. I'm toying with a Remington 700 BDL in .308 with a 20in barrel. I have iron sights on it at the moment. I'm thinking I may put a low power scope with a decent objective lens on it, possibly with light up reticle, mounted on a quick detach. Eventually, I'd like to convert it to 5 rnd mags, but haven't decided on that yet. Eventually will swap the wood stock for synthetic. This in my mind is a practical all around bush rifle/scout rifle. I will admit that the .308 may be a bit too much for some cases, but its very versatile.

Other options would be that CZ someone posted earlier, that sure is a pretty rifle. Mini-14/30 is a good choice, but getting a little more pricey. If you really want to spend money, then go with a M1A SOCOM or Scout. Something you could look into for a cheap project, look for a Stevens 325(?), its a bolt action rifle in 30-30 produced in the 50's and later IIRC. Light weight, low recoil, fun to shoot, and CHEAP!

Anyways, just my 2 cents worth, nothing more,

-Eric

wraith56
October 10, 2011, 08:11 PM
I vote 44 Mag.
It has less range than either, but you can reload cheaper practice ammo then either. Loaded 44 ammo is mostly cheaper than 30-30 ammo. the advantage of the 336 is that you can easily add an aimpoint or lesser red dot in the regular position. (no advantage to scout position with a red dot and a marlin 336). 44 makes the biggest entry hole too.

However you can't reload much below the price of 223 plinking ammo right now though, I have to admit that. 223 mini-14 would be my second choice. If reloading bores you to death I think you'll be happier with the mini-14. 30-30 is great for hunting but not the best for an urban environment.

conrad427
October 10, 2011, 10:30 PM
with such a wide range of caliber choices from the op, i am thinking he should get all three. one would be good for bad guys and the other two would be good for killing deer/black bear. If it were me, i would get a dpms sportical .223 for an urban rifle. At the time i bought mine they were cheaper than the mini-14, and you could mount the scope far enough forward to make it look like a scout rifle. For the other two, personally i would mount a small weaver variable in the normal place. I personally have had no time with a "scout" scope, but it seems to solve a problem that did not exist in the first place.

eazyrider
October 10, 2011, 10:44 PM
Or at least used to. It's true it's overpriced, especially for the American buyer. Much better rifle than the other two. (I owned one in .376 Steyr)

I was excited when the Ruger when it came out. The "Gunsite" bullshyte bugged me (I don't like to pay extra for silly -and fake- branding), but I've been a Ruger fan for years, so as I would have to have one imported specially for myself, I ask an American gunsmith friend of mine to make a review.

This is what he wrote:

-Overpriced semi-proprietary single stack mag that can't take strippers or be topped off with scope in place, defeating part of the "Scout" concept.
-Muzzle brake is garbage.
-Trigger is soggy.
-Sights were either crappy and hard to align.
-Whole rifle feels cheap and shoddy.

Conclusion: A Savage is half the price and better.

Just my two cents.

I detect that your "friend" is a little biased against Ruger. I love the line about how it feels cheap and shoddy. That line tells me that your "friend" never really handled the rifle.

NM Mountainman
October 11, 2011, 02:22 AM
Like Nortexeric, I voted "other." Cooper made many important contributions to the world of shooting and served his country with honor. Cooper's concept of the "Scout rifle" is interesting from a historical perspective, but there is no reason for us to feel constrained by it, IMO. The fact that the OP has developed a very flexible concept of a scout rifle (which can include a lever action with a tubular magazine) is a good thing.

If you want a light, good handling, accurate, powerful rifle for its shooting and handling qualities, rather than for a certain "look"; decide on the purpose of the rifle, the action type (bolt, semi, lever), and cartridge. My concept and specifications are similar to those of Nortexeric. The specs would include a good quality, well balanced, short action bolt rifle with a high quality synthetic stock that fits me, medium sporter barrel, detachable box magazines (5 and 10 round), and a good trigger. 20 inch barrel. The barrel and action are made of stainless steel with a matte black coating. Cover with camo tape when needed. Mount a good quality low magnification (1.5 to 6, or 2 to 8) variable power scope with a wide field of view in the usual location. Include a detachable peep sight (or a compact red dot sight) which can be attached to the scope base when the scope is removed. The rifle I have described would be a versatile hunting and survival rifle which would work well at short range in thick cover as well as for long range shots in excess of 300 yd.

After you have perfected your design concept and defined your specifications, you will likely find that there are few if any off the rack commercial rifles which fit your specs. In my example, I would have few stainless steel bolt action rifles with a durable matte black coating and detachable 5 and 10 round box magazines available to consider. Finding a synthetic stock which will fit me would also be a big problem.

Make any modifications to my proposal or the original scout concept (or just start with a clean sheet design) which will result in a handy accurate rifle to fit your needs. Enjoy your rifle in the knowledge that Cooper would approve of your good sense and excellent intelligent choices to assemble a rifle that fits your needs best rather than following a pattern which is the product of another rifleman's concept of an ideal rifle.

Molasses
October 12, 2011, 11:02 AM
I tried conventionally mounted scopes, including low magnification ones for a long time before the first time I messed with the forward mounted (scout) one. For me, it works faster, at least as long as the stock and scope mount fit me. YMMV. It's not for everyone. In my case, I liked that setup enough that I eventually decided to sell some other guns and haunt GunBroker until I found a Steyr I could afford on that money.

Another option that I'd recommend looking into, although it's heavy and still spendy, would be the M1A SOCOM series. Picked up a barely-used SOCOM 16 (with a number of mags) for $1,100+tax a few weeks ago: it shoots/functions well, feels nice in the hands and came factory ready to take forward mounted optics.

hardluk1
October 12, 2011, 12:41 PM
Lever rifle but with the 357 mag cartidge. Add a low power 1-4 power scope to it for better control of shots along with gost sites. You can get a 158gr over 2000fps out of a lever gun. Still be able to shoot 38 special too

Ledhore
October 12, 2011, 02:23 PM
lever rifle in .357 with ghost rings and quick detack scout scope would fit the bill for me! I've got one set up this way and it would make an excellent urban tool. .357 picks up horsepower in the carbine with slow burning powder.

hardluk1
October 12, 2011, 03:49 PM
And the 357 with 180gr or 200gr bullets on the high end to 110gr ,125gr on the low end with sp,hp and HC bullets it would do most anything you needed.

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