[bikemutt]

"Lucky girl suffers only minor injury from ricocheting bullet"

Read more: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_84e3b91e-f605-11e0-aaca-001cc4c002e0.html

Of course the shooter's story is just that, maybe there's more to it. In any event, I always felt my Glock erred on the side of being easier to fire than not, which could be a good thing in many circumstances I suppose. It's the main reason I sold it, not because it wouldn't go bang when needed, more about going bang when not needed.

Anyway, looks like the prosecutor has a decision to make.

[oneounceload]

not because it wouldn't go bang when needed, more about going bang when not needed.


That sounds like Operator Error - if your booger hook isn't on the bang switch, it can NEVER go off

[Deaf Smith]

mutt,

There are cases of all kinds of AD/NDs with guns. Glocks are not alone in this. Yes if you press the trigger of a Glock it will go off (but you can get NY-1 or 2 trigger to make it heavier), but pressing the trigger will fire a DA revolver, S&W M&P, Springfield XP, Sig, S&W Sigma, etc....

Just KYFFITFT and you will do fine. I have several Glocks, including my personal packing Glock 26 and my competition 17 Glock (Over 100000 rounds through that gun.) Zero AD/NDs.

If you are real worried, just get a holster that covers the trigger guard and only pull the weapon when you are in danger or on the range.

Deaf

[ForumSurfer]

User error, no reason to mistrust <insert any brand of pistol here>.

1. A falling knife has no handle.
2. A falling gun has 1,000,000 triggers.

(If it falls, let it fall...just pick it up...catching it is a recipe for disaster.)

Aside from that, what are the odds that he actually "dropped it?" It was likely some sort of negligent discharge other than accidentally catching it by the trigger.

[DT Guy]

More accurately, this is why I wouldn't trust that individual with a firearm...'blaming' the gun for going off when the trigger is pulled is sort of nonsensical; that's what we buy them for, isn't it?

Larry

[GreenSkyy87]

Blaming A Glock for this is along the same lines as blaming a Chevy for a drunk driving accident.

Some body was irresponsible and had an ND. Can happen with ANY gun, not just Glocks.

The family also hopes to retrieve the bullet, which was collected by police, and fashion it into a good-luck charm on a necklace, Strozyk said.

We all know how lucky lead exposure makes every one feel. :banghead:

[sarduy]

Eric Turya, who lives at the apartment building at 1751 Hemlock St., dropped the Glock pistol around 8:20 p.m. Wednesday. The gun, a model commonly used by police, went off when Turya, 47, tried to catch it and his finger hooked the trigger

Read more: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_84e3b91e-f605-11e0-aaca-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1anweEA8z

another user error...

1. A falling knife has no handle.
2. A falling gun has 1,000,000 triggers.

(If it falls, let it fall...just pick it up...catching it is a recipe for disaster.)

i learn that the hard way with a knife when i was a child, i cut my hand... i was fine in a week, but damn it hurt lol... i dont remember trying to catch a knife ever agin in my life. hahaha....,

[orionengnr]

...when a 9mm handgun accidentally went off in an upstairs apartment.
The gun...went off when Turya, 47, tried to catch it and his finger hooked the trigger, she said.
The gun performed exactly as it was designed to. Pull trigger, go bang. Accident? No. Negligence? Yes, emphatically.

No reason to distrust an inanimate object that perfors as it was designed to. Perhaps distrust yourself with a gun of that design...that I will accept as a well reasoned position, and one that a number of people have.

Very much distrust a number of other people with a gun of that design, due to demonstrated acts of negligence such as this...yes, again.

[gbran]

I've owned Glocks for many years. Bought Glock for its simplicity. Like the 5.5lb trigger. No safety levers, no decockers, same trigger pull every time. Just point and shoot and keep your finger off the trigger when you don't want to shoot.

[Telekinesis]

Eric Turya...dropped the Glock pistol. The gun... went off when [he] tried to catch it and his finger hooked the trigger.

Which is why you never try to catch a falling gun. Very few modern guns will fire if they're dropped, but nearly all of them will fire if the trigger is pulled. This type of accident/ND could have happened with most of the other types of service pistols. If this happened with a Sig, would you have said "this is why I don't trust a Sig"?

This seems more like a "don't trust untrained (or poorly trained) gun handlers" issue rather than "don't trust X type of gun".

[Frozen North]

Glocks (along with most handguns) are drop safe, not catch safe!

My CCW instructor hammered this point with us.

[Apocalypse-Now]

Of course the shooter's story is just that, maybe there's more to it. In any event, I always felt my Glock erred on the side of being easier to fire than not, which could be a good thing in many circumstances I suppose. It's the main reason I sold it, not because it wouldn't go bang when needed, more about going bang when not needed.


1. you do realize the story makes no mention of the brand of gun, right? police use many different brands.


2. by your reasoning, all guns are untrustworthy, because when you pull the trigger-they fire :confused:

[Rustinthewheel]

1. you do realize the story makes no mention of the brand of gun, right? police use many different brands.


2. by your reasoning, all guns are untrustworthy, because when you pull the trigger-they fire :confused:
"...who lives at the apartment building at 1751 Hemlock St., dropped the Glock pistol around 8:20 p.m. Wednesday. The gun, a model commonly used by police..."

[Kiln]

Get an XD/XDM. It is unlikely that you'll ever engage both the trigger and the grip safety as the same time. ;)

I love my XDM but in all seriousness, this isn't an issue with the gun but an issue with the user. I trust the Glock system as well as any other and it is pretty safe IMO because it won't go off if dropped. Don't grab a falling gun, damage to the finish/grip is preferable to damage to your body from the gun going off.

[Eric F]

all nice points and such but who cares? Accidents happen all the time this is just another accident. It is unfortunate that a gun found its way into it.

[Lawdawg45]

"I always felt my Glock erred on the side of being easier to fire than not"

I'd compare the statistics with the number of AD/ND's with the 1911 and it's myriad of safety's before condemning Glock;).

LD

[dprice3844444]

i ny trigger all my glocks.everybody always buys these 3.5 lb trigger thingys.it's an accident waiting to happen.

[bikemutt]

1. you do realize the story makes no mention of the brand of gun, right? police use many different brands.


2. by your reasoning, all guns are untrustworthy, because when you pull the trigger-they fire :confused:
1. Already answered, it's a Glock.

2. Not sure how came to that conclusion. A loaded, chambered Glock will fire if the trigger is pulled, accidentally, negligently or on purpose. An XD/XDM for example, introduces one more safety factor which is the grip safety making the accidental, negligent trigger pull considerably less likely to result in the gun firing.

I'm not suggesting a Glock is unsafe when used as intended, I just felt that for me, in all the circumstances I could imagine being in, the Glock had an insufficient number of safety's.

Maybe I should have titled the post "Why I don't trust myself with a Glock".

[Sapper771]

When one negligently handles/operates a device and they are injured as a result of it functioning properly, we should all blame the device for working properly (sarcasm). Reminds me of the lady that sued McDonalds because she was burned by the coffee SHE ordered when SHE spilled it. Wonder what she would have done if they served her cold coffee?

Anyway, if the trigger isnt pulled, the gun wont fire. The principle is the same with almost all firearms, regardless of make.

[SlamFire1]

I have shooting buds who are Policemen and Reserve Cops. The number of accidental discharge stories they have with Glocks was enough to convince me I did not want a Glock.

Or any pistol with a Glock type trigger.

Like double action revolvers, this SIG has a long, heavy, double action pull. Which is why I got one and I think this configuration, decocker, no external safeties, and long double action first shot, (or I can thumb cock it) is the way to go for a service auto pistol.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/SigP220.jpg

[Kiln]

When one negligently handles/operates a device and they are injured as a result of it functioning properly, we should all blame the device for working properly (sarcasm). Reminds me of the lady that sued McDonalds because she was burned by the coffee SHE ordered when SHE spilled it. Wonder what she would have done if they served her cold coffee?

Anyway, if the trigger isnt pulled, the gun wont fire. The principle is the same with almost all firearms, regardless of make.
I don't think coffee should be capable of third degree burns that require you to have a skin graft when spilled. There's hot and there is "HOLY F*** I JUST SPILLED MOLTEN LAVA ON MY LEG". Which was the case with the woman spilling her coffee.

[Loosedhorse]

We've already discussed the wisdom of trying to catch a falling gun. So, agreed:

Lesson 1--Don't drop guns.
Lesson 2--If you do drop the gun, don't try to catch it.

The OP says, "I always felt my Glock erred on the side of being easier to fire than not..." A New York 2 trigger will solve that; it'll cost you $2 and takes 5 min to install.

Of course, if a SIG is cheaper than $2, just get that. ;)

[Purgatory]

I've never once heard of a Negligent Discharge, Accidental Discharge, Magical Discharge, Divine Discharge or any other kind of Discharge from a Glock that wasn't somehow caused by a finger on the trigger.

Glocks are painstakingly engineered and purposely designed to fire when the trigger is pulled.

They are designed for 'Combat' and to be kept in a good holster that covers the trigger completely.

Therefore, if someone finds their design to be too intimidating or it just makes them too nervous to own or carry one, there are lots of other types of handguns available.

To say you don't 'Trust' a Glock is to say you don't trust 'yourself' and your own gun-handling skills.

For me, it's exactly the opposite. Load a Glock's mag and chamber a round and put it in a good holster that covers the trigger and you're A-Ok.

What I 'Trust' is if I ever have to draw it from its holster in a moment's notice to save my life or the life of a loved one, I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that it 'will' fire.

[LeonCarr]

Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are on target. Works extremely well with any firearm.

There...fixed it.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[PONTIACDM]

Just wondering how many people here have dropped a firearm. Just because you dropped it doesn't mean you were being careless. In theory I would agree let it hit the floor. However it is second nature to try to catch whatever you dropped.

[Loosedhorse]

Just wondering how many people here have dropped a firearm.I have. Right on concrete. Luckily, it was Glock, so it went from ugly, to ugly...but now with character! :DJust because you dropped it doesn't mean you were being careless.When I dropped mine, I was careless, or at least not careful enough (same thing?). I'm not sure I can easily think of dropped-gun scenarios that wouldn't be my fault. Well. Unless the guy throwing me a gun made a bad throw of course. ;) However it is second nature to try to catch whatever you dropped.Then I must have third nature: I pull my hands away, and try to "hop" my feet apart, away from the drop-zone, too. Knives will teach you things.

Maybe get yourself a blue plastic training gun, and practice letting it hit the floor? (Of course, an "unloaded" Glock works, too, as I found out. But you might drift the sights. :()

[Deaf Smith]

I have shooting buds who are Policemen and Reserve Cops. The number of accidental discharge stories they have with Glocks was enough to convince me I did not want a Glock.

Or any pistol with a Glock type trigger.

Like double action revolvers, this SIG has a long, heavy, double action pull. Which is why I got one and I think this configuration, decocker, no external safeties, and long double action first shot, (or I can thumb cock it) is the way to go for a service auto pistol.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/SigP220.jpg

Just get the NY-1 trigger of the Glock if you are that afraid of it.

And BTW, that 'decocker' on the SIG, if you forget to 'decock' it will get you to holster a cocked pistol with a short trigger pull (and light one for that matter.)

I have both Sig 229 and 239 so I know them well and what can happen if you fail to train right with them.

Deaf

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I agree with Slamfire1. Double action at least on the first pull makes me feel the safest.
Just for kicks here's a video of some guy shooting himself in the leg with a 1911.
http://youtu.be/zYvAxLX6OzE

I do carry a 1911 sometimes but mostly I go with double action revolvers.

[DT Guy]

A long double action trigger pull for the first shot is a hardware solution to a software problem. If you are contacting the trigger enough that a light trigger would have gone off, you are by no means safe by changing to a heavy trigger-although you have likely slowed your first reactive shot, and increased your chances of missing your target and hitting an innocent; not exactly my idea of 'safer.' (There's a reason that people who train to hit small targets quickly don't prefer 11 pound trigger pulls.....)

Larry

[daytodaze]

Time for a blackhawk down reference?

*shows index finger* This is my safety

[DoggerDan]

I gleaned three things from this:

1. Hammer bars/firing pin locks are good things.

2. Do not attempt to catch a falling weapon! Let the hammer bar/firing pin interlock do their job.

3. Cocked and locked is foolish for DA pistols. Let that long, hard trigger pull be another safety. <--- More from the video someone posted of the guy who shot himself in the leg.

[ForumSurfer]

However it is second nature to try to catch whatever you dropped.

Not after you get stitches from catching a falling knife. After that, second nature is raising your hands in the air and moving your toes away. If I drop something like a knife, rifle or a handgun; I backup and let it fall.

3. Cocked and locked is foolish for DA pistols. Let that long, hard trigger pull be another safety. <--- More from the video someone posted of the guy who shot himself in the leg.

Not if there is a manual safety or some other safety device. People have carried 1911's cocked and locked for years.


And BTW, that 'decocker' on the SIG, if you forget to 'decock' it will get you to holster a cocked pistol with a short trigger pull (and light one for that matter.)

I agree!

I've never once heard of a Negligent Discharge, Accidental Discharge, Magical Discharge, Divine Discharge or any other kind of Discharge from a Glock that wasn't somehow caused by a finger on the trigger.

Now I carry glocks and other pistols with no external safeties, but I'll be the first to admit that the statement above is untrue. Cheap or worn holsters can get in the trigger guard and cause the trigger to be depressed. It can happen. It is still a user induced error that is completely unavoidable with common sense, but it is still something that can happen without a finger. It isn't a problem limited to glocks, though.

It all goes back to software problems that can't be fixed with hardware. Sure, you can add extra levels of safety...but if you fix the software from the start all of this becomes a non issue. :)

[MachIVshooter]

1. A falling knife has no handle.
2. A falling gun has 1,000,000 triggers.

All too true.

I'll just add:

A pissed off cat has 87 paws with 240 claws each.

[Mainsail]

I like Glocks.
I like handguns.
I dislike the inept touching them.

[ATLDave]

This strikes me as an example of one of those times when maybe an external safety ain't so extraneous. I'm not saying the lack of one makes Glocks bad or dangerous. But they do only require one error - a hooked trigger - to go off. A pistol with an external safety requires two errors - a hooked trigger and a flipped safety - to do the same thing.

Same critism applies to revolvers, but the DA pull is usually a heck of a lot heavier and longer. Some slicked up target guns are an exception, but surely you wouldn't have one of those loaded at home...

[Hizzoner]

Sorry to be OT but I almost blew coffee out my nose at " if your booger hook isn't on the bang switch, it can NEVER go off."

[Walking Dead]

Idiot would probably try to catch a falling knife too.

[againstthagrane]

this thread is really grasping at straws. you don't trust glocks because they go off when they pull the trigger? lmao!

[againstthagrane]

Idiot would probably try to catch a falling knife too.
this happened to me while i was chopping onions about 3 hours ago and not really paying attention. i just jumped back and let my beautiful $180 shun santoku hit the ground :(.
better than trying to catch it though cuz it was razor sharp. but if i did and it cut me i would never trust shun knives again.

[KAS1981]

I see the "why I don't carry a Glock" discussion come up from time to time.

It has yet to make sense to me.

[Mick45]

Why not put a Cominolli Safety on it? Joe Cominolli makes a "1911 like" thumb safety for glock pistols. I have used one on a g27 I owned and they are marvelous devices. Good luck in your handgunning, Mick

[GreenSkyy87]

You know what's funny is that I don't even use the safety on any carry gun except for the 1911.

Last thing I want to do in a life or death situation where seconds count it to forget to flick off the safety. It is second nature with the 1911, but no other safety systems out there that I know of are as easy to access as the 1911.

[RevDerb]

I can find an apparently rational reason to not like anything that I choose not to like.

[ATLDave]

You know what's funny is that I don't even use the safety on any carry gun except for the 1911.

Last thing I want to do in a life or death situation where seconds count it to forget to flick off the safety. It is second nature with the 1911, but no other safety systems out there that I know of are as easy to access as the 1911.

How about all the other pistols that have the safety in the same orientation (down for bang) and same location? CZ, for example, or EAA/Witness/Tanfoglio? Or Browning Hi-Power, IIRC. Anything where you ride the safety with your grip makes "forgetting the safety" a non-issue.

[Sulaco]

Yes, I too much prefer handguns (and any gun in general) which either, A) doesn't work at all or B) is so difficult to use that it's basically not usable. Otherwise someone might get hurt!

[Purgatory]

Now I carry glocks and other pistols with no external safeties, but I'll be the first to admit that the statement above is untrue. Cheap or worn holsters can get in the trigger guard and cause the trigger to be depressed. It can happen. It is still a user induced error that is completely unavoidable with common sense, but it is still something that can happen without a finger. It isn't a problem limited to glocks, though.



Just a friendly challenge, here.

Can you cite a reference for your opinion on this? Maybe an article or some proof that this has actually happened?

I only ask because I have tested, many times, many ways, the Glock trigger safety and come to the conclusion that it's 'Highly' unlikely that something can get:

1. into the wide trigger guard 'enough' to fully depress the trigger enough to discharge the gun. (We're talking factory trigger weights here. No lightweight competition triggers.)

OR

2. into the wide trigger guard at the 'correct angle' to depress the small safety on the trigger and 'maintain' that angle while depressing the trigger straight back enough to discharge the firearm.

Remember this would have to be an object flexible enough to accidentally find its way into the trigger guard from the side and, somehow, have the stability to depress a ~5 lb trigger while maintaining the correct angle to do this 'straight back' all at the same time.

If you can present convincing proof, then you will be helping me and any others who are unaware of that danger.

I have put an unloaded Glock into my pants Mexican style and tried to completely pull the trigger through my pants, tried to hang the trigger with string (thread to twine) and many other unsuspecting items just to test the possibility of the gun ever accidentally being discharged by a random item either in the holster or some other place.

While not impossible, it is very difficult and, likewise, unlikely to line up all those things to make the gun discharge.

I would be interested to know if a tattered holster could actually accomplish this.

Always interested in good information is all.

[Bobson]

1. A falling knife has no handle.
2. A falling gun has 1,000,000 triggers.
Two of the wisest statements I've ever read.

[Owen Sparks]

I think Glocks are dangerous also but for a slightly different reason.

I read a statistic some years back that claimed that one out of five police officers shot in the line of duty were shot with a snatched service weapon. The civilian odds can't be much better. Not all gunfights happen AT seven yards, many happen within seven yards including at wrestling distance. I like a 1911 or my Springfield XD .45 with a thumb safety for that reason.

[ForumSurfer]

Can you cite a reference for your opinion on this? Maybe an article or some proof that this has actually happened?I would be interested to know if a tattered holster could actually accomplish this.http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=584764

edit:: see this post for specific pictures: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7213180&postcount=12

It took several things to happen. Negligent user + faulty equipment + continued carelessness + persistent force = ooops.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still blaming the user...not the glock (or the khar, or the s&W m&p or any of the other high quality handguns with no manual safeties). It took heaping amounts of negligence, carelessness and foolishness combined, squared and multiplied. :)

I've also tried to see if it could happen out of curiosity. I was able to pull the trigger by putting an unholsted ____ in my pocket, intentionally hooking the trigger through the trigger guard through my gym pants with a metal hanger on the wall in my garage and simply stooping down. I've also simulated that worn holster story by manually shoving the leather in there. It took quite a bit of force, but it can happen.

Unlikely? Yep, very. It is possible to happen. Pretty easy fix, just use a holster that covers the trigger guard. I've never been a pocket carry fan so good holsters and good belts are already in the closet. I keep a high noon holster in the car for those times when I need a quick slip in the pants holster. It does the job but isn't comfortable for all day carry.

But to each his own. YMMV

[Bobson]

I think Glocks are dangerous also but for a slightly different reason.

I read a statistic some years back that claimed that one out of five police officers shot in the line of duty were shot with a snatched service weapon. The civilian odds can't be much better. Not all gunfights happen AT seven yards, many happen within seven yards including at wrestling distance. I like a 1911 or my Springfield XD .45 with a thumb safety for that reason.
You really think a manual safety is so much of a complicated mechanism that only someone well-trained with the weapon will be able to manipulate it?

The reason so many officers are killed with their own weapon is because of poor training, or not enough of it, and LE agencies know that very well. The only other thing responsible is complacency.

History shows a cycle in law enforcement. Every x number of years, training budgets drop to certain levels. Immediately thereafter, officer deaths increase. Then, training budgets are raised, and officer deaths decrease. Over time, complacency sets in. People at the top marvel at the success of their officers, and decide to save money by cutting the training budget. Officer deaths and injuries begin to increase. And so on.

Each cycle is about a decade or so, and large agencies nationwide have acknowledged it as an irrefutable truth since the early '80s.

I've had to study numerous officer deaths, and officer complacency and/or negligence is almost always (around 75% of the time) a factor.

[Loosedhorse]

You really think a manual safety is so much of a complicated mechanism that only someone well-trained with the weapon will be able to manipulate it? It could easily befuddle someone who's never shot anything but a Glock Fo-tay. I gave a friend--smart guy, knew revolvers and 1911s--a P7 once without instruction (unloaded, pointed safely) and asked him to make it go click. He'd never seen one before. It took him a full minute. And of course he dropped the mag first. :D

To me, the worst thing about Glocks is the "pull the trigger to disassemble" feature. The disassembly directions should read:


Check that the magazine is out of the gun, and that the chamber is empty.
Now, check it again. I mean it. Carefully, this time!
....[etc.]

[GreenSkyy87]

To me, the worst thing about Glocks is the "pull the trigger to disassemble" feature. The disassembly directions should read:
Check that the magazine is out of the gun, and that the chamber is empty.
Now, check it again. I mean it. Carefully, this time!
....[etc.]

You mean so stuff like this doesn't happen?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_ACCIDENTAL_MOTHER_SHOOTING_FLOL-?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=

You just can't fix stupid.

[againstthagrane]

Why not put a Cominolli Safety on it? Joe Cominolli makes a "1911 like" thumb safety for glock pistols. I have used one on a g27 I owned and they are marvelous devices. Good luck in your handgunning, Mick

glocks don't need safeties. use the one between your ears.

[chhodge69]

seriously... these discussions illustrate exactly why there are thousands of handgun designs available out there. Find one you like and move on.

[bikemutt]

glocks don't need safeties. use the one between your ears.
That's true, unless I'm the unfortunate victim of someone else's negligent discharge, then I'd really wish that pistol had 8 safeties and a lock :(

[ForumSurfer]

That's true, unless I'm the unfortunate victim of someone else's negligent discharge, then I'd really wish that pistol had 8 safeties and a lock

Or better yet, wish that the pistol had an owner that simply observed the 4 rules.

We could start blaming the inanimate objects instead of the owner and requiring more safety devices...wait...california already tried that and it doesn't work... :neener:

[45_auto]

That's true, unless I'm the unfortunate victim of someone else's negligent discharge, then I'd really wish that pistol had 8 safeties and a lock

It's not the number of safeties or locks that prevents ND's .......

[bikemutt]

It's not the number of safeties or locks that prevents ND's .......
Well, we will never know since it's impossible to know why something didn't happen.

[againstthagrane]

That's true, unless I'm the unfortunate victim of someone else's negligent discharge, then I'd really wish that pistol had 8 safeties and a lock

yeah, you're right. that's why 1911's never have ND. EVAAAAAR. :rolleyes:

if you don't like glocks for whatever reason, fine. don't try to tell me they're unsafe because they go off when the trigger is pulled. and safeties wouldn't stop NDs. if a person is untrained enough to have an ND, who's to say that they would be trained enough to remember to put the safety on?

[Mainsail]

Well, we will never know since it's impossible to know why something didn't happen.
Sort of like saying "I've created or saved a million jobs!"

Right now I'm on the Obama diet, I've lost or not gained 200 pounds.

[Paul7]

I agree with the OP. That incident would have been much less likely with a DA/safety gun.

If you're not smart enough to use a safety you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

[KenW.]

More items than a finger can depress a trigger. Its not unheard of at police qualification shoots when a stray raid jacket drawstring gets hooked upon holstering. That's not included in the four rules.

Thumb and grip safeties reduce that threat.

[whalerman]

Glock owns the police market. Ask yourself why this is. OK, I'll tell you. Because administrators are interested in many things, among them, costs. But there is one thing they are more interested in than anything else. More than officer safety. More than public safety. More than criminals being deterred. This one thing that matters to them? LIABILITY. IF Glocks were more dangerous, if they were prone to more accidents, if they were not easy to train people with, if they were not predictable and safe, THEY WOULDN'T USE THEM. If you hate Glocks that's just fine. But don't pretend that they are unsafe, inaccurate, melt, ruin breakfast, scare the dog, or whatever other stories seem to be made up about them. What is this thread, number 700 in a series?

[oneounceload]

If you're not smart enough to use a safety you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

If you are not smart enough to know how to carry a gun safely without a safety, you shouldn't be carrying or owning a gun

The safety is between your ears and no place else

[bikemutt]

yeah, you're right. that's why 1911's never have ND. EVAAAAAR. :rolleyes:

if you don't like glocks for whatever reason, fine. don't try to tell me they're unsafe because they go off when the trigger is pulled. and safeties wouldn't stop NDs. if a person is untrained enough to have an ND, who's to say that they would be trained enough to remember to put the safety on?
Not trying to tell you anything. And I have nothing against Glock pistols. I've as much as stipulated that I, personally, don't feel safe carrying one, and I don't carry one accordingly.

But, if we go back to the original link wherein the Glock was negligently discharged by an apparently untrained owner, is it conceivable that an engaged manual safety, or an opposing force safety (a la XD), have prevented a ND?

Viewed though the eyes of the victim, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable question to ask, I think.

[whalerman]

There's always a way to make sure a gun doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled. Unload it, put it in a locked case, then put that case in a safe. If you treat a Glock this way they are most always safe.

I don't know what else to say. They function as double action revolvers with semi auto properties. No safety there either. Some folks will never accept them. But as I said, if there were LIABILITY or SAFETY issues, no police agency would use them. There aren't, and they do.

[Laf'n'Larry]

Rule 3: Never place your finger on the trigger until your sights are on the target.

It ain't the guns fault.

[RamDragon64]

The Handgun in question was a 9mm Glock with an adjusted 3 1/2 trigger pull. How do I know this? I know this because;

Did I own the gun? Had I ever handled the gun before? Did I know the gun was loaded? Did I know the safety was off? ...NO... to all the above.

Have I ever handled firearms before and do I know about Firearms Safety? ...YES... to that.

I did NOT drop the handgun! I was told the handgun was Unloaded, so naturally when I picked it up from the Lockbox, the extra weight caught me a little by surprise. I had the handgun in my hand, at an angle to the floor away from me and turned it to one side looking for the safety, clip release, something. As I turned the handgun to the other side looking for the same it STARTED to slip from my hand.

A persons instinct when something starts to 'Slip' from their grasp, is to Clench their hand. As in the case where you reach for a glass of water, have your hand and fingers actually touching it, around it, but somehow the glass still slips from your grasp.

Received a Court Summons yesterday, court date is soon with an attached $500.00 ticket. I have never been in criminal court before (Never even had a speeding ticket), and I am not looking forward to it... not to mention the fact that I Lost My Job earlier this month... It has been a BAD month!.

What happened was NOT a 'Mistake', it was an 'Accident'...there is a difference between the two. Not looking for comments, sympathy, empathy... Just telling the story and I'm Sticking To It!!!

RamDragon64

[wvshooter]

I always felt my Glock erred on the side of being easier to fire than not, which could be a good thing in many circumstances I suppose. It's the main reason I sold it, not because it wouldn't go bang when needed, more about going bang when not needed.


I've never owned or shot a glock but I do have a Kahr CW9 and feel the same way about it's trigger. The trigger pull is very light weight and it does make the gun more dangerous. I've heard all the arguments about the user being the problem but no one's perfect and I want every safety advantage I can get.

One of my primary carries is a Sig P250 sub compact. Very long trigger pull which makes the gun much safer than a glock.

[ForumSurfer]

But, if we go back to the original link wherein the Glock was negligently discharged by an apparently untrained owner, is it conceivable that an engaged manual safety, or an opposing force safety (a la XD), have prevented a ND?

Viewed though the eyes of the victim, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable question to ask, I think.

That is how we end up with unneeded items like giant loaded chamber indicators on rugers, magazine disconnects, locks on revolvers and on and on and on.

Follow the 4 rules and everything works out for the best.

I think smith and wesson has a good model for their m&p line. You can get one with a thumb safety and a mag disconnect if it makes you sleep better at night, or you can order one with no safety and no mag disconnect.

[GreenSkyy87]

The Handgun in question was a 9mm Glock with an adjusted 3 1/2 trigger pull. How do I know this? I know this because;

Did I own the gun? Had I ever handled the gun before? Did I know the gun was loaded? Did I know the safety was off? ...NO... to all the above.

Have I ever handled firearms before and do I know about Firearms Safety? ...YES... to that.

I did NOT drop the handgun! I was told the handgun was Unloaded, so naturally when I picked it up from the Lockbox, the extra weight caught me a little by surprise. I had the handgun in my hand, at an angle to the floor away from me and turned it to one side looking for the safety, clip release, something. As I turned the handgun to the other side looking for the same it STARTED to slip from my hand.

A persons instinct when something starts to 'Slip' from their grasp, is to Clench their hand. As in the case where you reach for a glass of water, have your hand and fingers actually touching it, around it, but somehow the glass still slips from your grasp.

Received a Court Summons yesterday, court date is soon with an attached $500.00 ticket. I have never been in criminal court before (Never even had a speeding ticket), and I am not looking forward to it... not to mention the fact that I Lost My Job earlier this month... It has been a BAD month!.

What happened was NOT a 'Mistake', it was an 'Accident'...there is a difference between the two. Not looking for comments, sympathy, empathy... Just telling the story and I'm Sticking To It!!!

RamDragon64

You are going to get comments, but you don't have to worry about the sympathy or empathy part.

You still made several mistakes. The main of which being that you finger was inside the trigger guard. That thing could have had a 1lb trigger, still wont go off if your finger was in the right place.

By the sounds of your story, you are not familiar with pistols at all. You should not have handled a weapon that you do not know how to operate. As far as someone telling you that it was unloaded, you never take that as a fact. All guns are always loaded. I myself will not take possession of a weapon from somebody if they have not cleared it in front of me first. If they try to hand it to me to "check it out" without checking its condition, I will refuse it and ask them to check. When they check and hand it to me, I check it again myself.

[bikemutt]

There's always a way to make sure a gun doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled. Unload it, put it in a locked case, then put that case in a safe. If you treat a Glock this way they are most always safe.

I don't know what else to say. They function as double action revolvers with semi auto properties. No safety there either. Some folks will never accept them. But as I said, if there were LIABILITY or SAFETY issues, no police agency would use them. There aren't, and they do.
I agree that police departments would not deploy Glock pistols as widely as they do if they were inherently unsafe.

I don't know precisely what firearms training police officers undergo before being turned loose on the job, but, just from what I've overheard at the range, it sounds like they receive extensive training and must qualify before they are ready for the field.

Now lets examine the minimum qualifications for lawfully owning and carrying a Glock, or any other handgun, just like a trained police officer does, in Washington State, lets name him Jon Doe and assume he's never owned or handled a handgun:

Jon must be an adult and a resident of WA.
He must have a clean, or laundered, criminal record.
He needs to have about $600 to buy the gun, holster and ammo.
He needs exactly 5 days of patience while the background check clears.

So, there is a chasm of Grand Canyon proportions between these two individuals when it comes to firearms proficiency.

Whereas an additional safety on a service pistol may be a hindrance or even a life-loser for a policeman, it may also be the one thing that keeps Jon Doe out of trouble, assuming he's smart enough to use it.

And of course, this is not an either-or scenario, it's a continuum, heck, some members here may even be better trained and more proficient than police officers.

[ForumSurfer]

What happened was NOT a 'Mistake', it was an 'Accident'...there is a difference between the two. Not looking for comments, sympathy, empathy... Just telling the story and I'm Sticking To It!!!I've made similar mistakes, they are mistakes. It was an accident if the end user had no way to be blamed. Few things in life are accidents. Consider it an accident if you will, but there was contributory negligence attached. Been there. :)

The main of which being that you finger was inside the trigger guard. That thing could have had a 1lb trigger, still wont go off if your finger was in the right place. I agree totally. EDIT:: Or it could have a 20lb trigger...same ending, it won't go off without a finger or other object in the trigger guard.

A persons instinct when something starts to 'Slip' from their grasp, is to Clench their hand. As in the case where you reach for a glass of water, have your hand and fingers actually touching it, around it, but somehow the glass still slips from your grasp.I disagree. When something slips, I let it slip. Better to let it fall and pick it up. No matter if it is a knife, a gun or a glass of water.



1. A falling knife has no handle.
2. A falling gun has 1,000,000 triggers.

(If it falls, let it fall...just pick it up...catching it is a recipe for disaster.)

Been there, done that and I have the scars to prove it. Thankful that I'm the only one with the scars to tell the story in my case. :)

[Fotno]

All a deliberate shooter will ever need is the safety between their ears; but a firearm can't be built with enough safeties to prevent an idiot from shooting themselves or someone else 'accidentally'. You could put a combination lock and a bike chain on the thing, and some moron would still manage to 'accidentally' fire it.

[RatherNotSay]

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/RNS915/ThisIsMySafety.jpg

[jmorris]

The title should be "Why I don't trust myself". Owning many myself for decades and seeing hundreds in competition, I have never seen one fire that was not in someones hands.

[Alex23]

This is why I trust Glock.

The man pulled the trigger and it went bang. That's what they are justly famous for doing.

As for his negligence, that is his problem.

[bikemutt]

While bird hunting over the years with some of the most careful, safe to be around guys, I still, every once in a while, hear someone mumble "damn, forgot the safety" as the bird flies away in a successful escape.

I never hear "crap, forgot to put it on safe after the last volley", but I know it happens.

People make mistakes sometimes, in spite of all the knowledge, drills and practice. That's not an excuse, just a fact.

I think each person balances their confidence and mastery of gunhandling with the safety profile of their weapon of choice. I have nothing but admiration and respect for those who've achieved mistake-free, instinctive, safe gunhandling.

[RamDragon64]

There seemed to be a lot of guessing, questioning and out right 'fabrication' of the story on this. 'I' wrote my story here (I was the handgun handler) to clear things up.

By only the second reply to my post, someone has already 'Assumed' that my finger was 'Inside' the trigger guard. Tell me exactly WHERE in my story did I say that and where did it say that I'm an untrained handgun user? (I actually stated the opposite!). I put my story on here to 'Get the record straight', but if no matter what I write, people are going 'See what you want to see' and fabricate things that are not there, well then lets just say that this is my last post. Some of you would have fit right in as 'clergy' men during the Witch Burning trials !!!

RamDragon64

[RatherNotSay]

Guns are tools of death...plain and simple. Even the most experienced owners can get complacent. However your story is just negligent.

I was told the handgun was Unloaded, so naturally when I picked it up from the Lockbox, the extra weight caught me a little by surprise.

where did it say that I'm an untrained handgun user? (I actually stated the opposite!)

If that second statement was correct and you WERE a trained handgun user than even if someone tells you the gun is unloaded you should always revert back to that cardinal rule of ALWAYS ASSUME THE GUN IS LOADED. Even if a friend told me his gun was unloaded I wouldn't risk it and NOT check for myself.

It's self evident what happens when you don't check the chamber for yourself.

[Alex23]

'Assumed' that my finger was 'Inside' the trigger guard.

Can you teach us how to fire a glock without pulling the trigger at some point? Did you leave out something in your 'story'?

:)

[Purgatory]

Here's a quote from the news article in the OP.

The gun, a model commonly used by police, went off when Turya, 47, tried to catch it and his finger hooked the trigger, she said.

Read more: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_84e3b91e-f605-11e0-aaca-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1bRn8ZD4F

And here's a quote directly from you in your post, RamDragon64.

A persons instinct when something starts to 'Slip' from their grasp, is to Clench their hand. As in the case where you reach for a glass of water, have your hand and fingers actually touching it, around it, but somehow the glass still slips from your grasp.



and this:

\....someone has already 'Assumed' that my finger was 'Inside' the trigger guard. Tell me exactly WHERE in my story did I say that..../

So.....you're saying you did NOT accidentally, or in any other way, activate the trigger?

I have no intention of belittling you or arguing, I'm just trying to understand what the information is that you're trying to get across.

[Paul7]

What all the dancing can't get around is that if that guy had had a DA/safety gun, that incident would have been much less likely.

Go ahead and say such incidents shouldn't happen, yeah, and car accidents should never happen either. Considering the huge, irreversible, bad side effects of an AD/ND, I'll take a DA/safety gun. :neener:

[hatt]

If he didn't have any gun at all it would have been safer still. You can what-if any scenario to death. "Well yeah, he pulled the trigger a little by accident but if it was so and so gun it wouldn't have been enough to fire..." The best bet is to keep your finger off the trigger.

[whalerman]

Baloney Paul7. A Glock is a double action semi automatic. Your statement makes no sense. Now if it had a trigger lock on it we'd be talkin' real safety. Geesh.

[General Lee]

If you can't handle a gun don't buy a gun. Stop with the I hate such and such gun posts because such and such is a moron and shoots such and such in the such and such. :banghead:

[Paul7]

Whalerman, you are wrong about Glock being a double action pistol.

http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm

[Purgatory]

I've always heard Glock's action referred to as a DA/SA.

It's really both or, more accurately, neither.

Glock refers to it as 'Safe Action.'

The difference between an XD trigger and a Glock trigger really exemplifies the difference between a true striker-fired 'single action' and the Glock 'Safe Action.'

When you chamber a round or work the slide on a Glock and cock the striker, the striker is then half to 3/4 of the way fully cocked.

Then, when you pull the trigger, all of the integral Glock safeties are disengaged like clockwork while the striker is ultimately drawn the rest of the way back and then released.

So, technically, Glock's action can't fit into either box nicely.

It's just a Glock 'Safe Action.'

Pretty amazing, really.

-But, I digress.

[Paul7]

The little thingy in front of the Glock trigger is a gimmick. The late Col. Jeff Cooper said he couldn't even imagine a situation in which it would be useful.

[Purgatory]

Are you just an outright Glock Hater, Paul7, or have you used them for years and come to your very opinionated conclusions?

The "little thingy in front of the Glock trigger" is exactly what keeps the trigger from being depressed unintentionally by random objects or even a finger at an imprecise angle.

The Glock trigger 'guard' is about 3/4 of an inch wide.

The Glock 'trigger' is close to a 1/2 inch wide and the "little thingy in front of the Glock trigger" is about as wide as a popsicle stick.

If anything, including a finger at an imprecise angle, depresses the trigger without completely depressing the "little thingy," the trigger will not operate.

So, yeah, it's pretty useless.

So useless that many other manufacturers have copied the design.

[RatherNotSay]

The little thingy in front of the Glock trigger is a gimmick. The late Col. Jeff Cooper said he couldn't even imagine a situation in which it would be useful.
If it's such a gimmick than why are other manufactures like walther, ruger, smith and wesson, and even some savage rifles incorporating them. Well S&W has a "pivot" action to it but it's the same concept.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c136/REM503/worlds_smallest_violin.gif

[Purgatory]

....and Marlin and Springfield Armory.

[JoeMal]

This is why I trust Glock.

The man pulled the trigger and it went bang. That's what they are justly famous for doing.

As for his negligence, that is his problem.Perfect

[GreenSkyy87]

By only the second reply to my post, someone has already 'Assumed' that my finger was 'Inside' the trigger guard. Tell me exactly WHERE in my story did I say that and where did it say that I'm an untrained handgun user?

It has already been covered by others but I will answer you directly so you will understand where my statements came from.

I did not assume that your finger was in the trigger guard. I knew it was because we all read a story about a negligent discharge. That gun will not go off unless the trigger is pulled. It went off. Trigger was pulled. When the trigger was pulled, your finger was on it. If your finger was on the trigger, then it was inside the trigger guard.

If the gun was slipping and you tightened your grasp, the gun would not have gone off if your index finger was straight out and rigid. This is where we the untrained user comment comes in. If you were a trained user, a number of things would have happened differently.

A) You would have assumed the weapon was loaded

B) You would have known the proper way to clear the weapon

C) When the gun started to slip, you would have put both hands up, stepped away and let the gun fall.

D) You would not have had you finger anywhere near the trigger if you ignored C.

E) You would not have had a ND.

Unless you left out some details from your story, or changed your story, the reasons above spell out quite clearly why what happened was in fact caused by negligence and why in fact you do not handle a handgun like a trained user.

Even if your story changes, you still would have had to not follow one of the lettered guidelines above that a trained user would have. Example - gun fell out of your hands and you grasped for it. You still did not follow D and C, and E still happened.

[Bonesinium]

I figured I'd post this, you know, just because...

Accident:

an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap
or
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan

That is all. :)

[whalerman]

This is the usual stuff. People have their knee jerk reactions to Glock. They can't seem to understand a weapon that works like this. It was new, revolutionary. They are required to hate them. It started out with how they were built, then the caliber, now they've moved on to triggers, sights, blocky looks, colors, holsters, the fact that they can't make breakfast, the criticisms are endless. The only thing I don't like about mine is it doesn't work well with bi-pods and bayonets. And even though I've never had a malfunction, I know it's coming. I just know it. And in advance I hate the gun for letting me down when it happens.

Paul, I've shot Glocks for years and DA is a fairly accurate description. It is striker fired, but the action is safe, making a traditional safety a wee bit dumb, just as it would be on a DA revolver. But people look at it differently. Especially people who are desperately seeking a reason to hate Glocks.

[Mick45]

The best safety is between your ears. You must press the trigger to clear a glock in order to dissasemble it. I'll bet anything that this guy was "clearing" his glock prior to dissasembly or something and forgot to check the chamber (mistake number one for him). A good guess because the gun was pointing down when it discharged, the way people are often taught to point it when clearing it. Stupid to do in an upstairs unit (mistake number two for him), but a general habit for glock people to point down when clearing (supposed to point in a safe direction). I mean, what are the odds that it was pointing downward of all directions. It could have been pointing any of 360 degrees around or any upward angle when he "caught" it, including at himself or down towards his feet, but just happend to be pointing downward and away from his feet. Also, accidentally "hooking" a glock trigger with it's tiny lever safety, while not impossible is hard to do in the manner in which he discribes without putting your finger completely through the trigger guard and squeezing it fairly hard at just the right angle. I tried twirling mine, sixgun style (unloaded of course)(tripple checked), and could twirl it like crazy without pulling the trigger. I think he was clearing his gun, he pressed the trigger, and it went bang, and he lied to the cops to hide his culpability. Alot of gun people have had a ND. Almost no one has had two. I bet he starts double checking the chamber now. Nothing like a ND to make you start double checking your gun before you dryfire it. Mick
P.S. you have to break at least two of the gun safety rules to hurt someone with a ND, and this guy broke at least two. Lets see, "always check the gun to see if it's loaded", "always assume it's loaded anyway", "always point in a safe direction when not purposely shooting it", "keep your finger out of the trigger guard untill you're intentionally shooting it", "if you must dryfire it as with a glock to clear it, dryfire it at something that will stop the bullet", etc., etc... He's very lucky no one died.

[RatherNotSay]

This is the usual stuff. People have their knee jerk reactions to Glock. They can't seem to understand a weapon that works like this. It was new, revolutionary. They are required to hate them. It started out with how they were built, then the caliber, now they've moved on to triggers, sights, blocky looks, colors, holsters, the fact that they can't make breakfast, the criticisms are endless. The only thing I don't like about mine is it doesn't work well with bi-pods and bayonets. And even though I've never had a malfunction, I know it's coming. I just know it. And in advance I hate the gun for letting me down when it happens.

Paul, I've shot Glocks for years and DA is a fairly accurate description. It is striker fired, but the action is safe, making a traditional safety a wee bit dumb, just as it would be on a DA revolver. But people look at it differently. Especially people who are desperately seeking a reason to hate Glocks.

Now it's just bipods;)

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/DBA890-1.html

[GreenSkyy87]

Now it's just bipods

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/DBA890-1.html

I've seen those before. Have actually thought about getting one just for a novelty item and joke.

I hope that is what they were intended for, but sometime inside me tells me that it was Gecko45 and his buddies that designed this for serious combat use. :banghead:

[Paul7]

"If it's such a gimmick than why are other manufactures like walther, ruger, smith and wesson, and even some savage rifles incorporating them. Well S&W has a "pivot" action to it but it's the same concept."


Got me, those guns don't interest me either. How is it the trigger would be pulled without also pulling the gimmick thingy? How did that 'safety' work out in the OP incident?

I am not a Glock hater, I have had them and was unimpressed. They look like the spawn between a gun and a 2x4, there are other guns that feel better in the hand, are not super accurate IMHO, and neither of the ones I had were reliable, one even after spending months at the factory. They were a big deal when they first came out, but today, meh.

[Unistat]

You say this:
I am not a Glock hater...

Then you say this:

...They look like the spawn between a gun and a 2x4, there are other guns that feel better in the hand, are not super accurate IMHO, and neither of the ones I had were reliable, one even after spending months at the factory. They were a big deal when they first came out, but today, meh.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[buddyemily]

Sounds like the operator is to blame. The glock did exactly as designed.

[ShawnC]

I don't know about you guys, but I would NEVER buy a gun that would just go off every time I pulled the trigger. That's just insanity. :rolleyes:

[whalerman]

"Neither of the Glocks I had were reliable, even after spending months at the factory."

Now we know honesty is PERHAPS slipping from our discussion. Rebuilding a Glock takes minutes for an experienced armorer. I find it very hard to believe a Glock spent "months" at any factory. Do you really want to stand by that statement, Mr Paul? The more you talk the more trouble you get in.

[ATLDave]

I think the use of the phrase "don't trust" is not really appropriate in this context. I would certainly "trust" a Glock to go bang every time the trigger is depressed, whether intentionally or unintentionally. The question is whether you want a switch/lever on the gun that toggles the gun between "safe" (as safe as a loaded gun can ever be, anyway) and "ready to fire." I think it is fairly self-evident that having an additional step that must be taken before the gun will go off will reduce the number of AD's/ND's.

Without some operator error, you won't have an AD/ND in a non-defective Glock. But there has never yet been a system with human input that does not have an error rate. Never. Doctors go to school for years to learn how to safely and effectively care for patients. But sometimes mistakes are made. That's why hospitals try to implement procedures that are backstops against mistakes. The same is true for professional pilots. They are generally highly-competent, highly-trained individuals... far more so than 99% of civilian handgun owners. But they have procedures, mechanical systems, electronic systems, and other mechanisms designed to overcome the occassional (and inevitable) errors, and to require multiple errors before an accident occurs.

So, the question is, do you want one additional layer of safety before an error becomes an accident? Everyone has to make up their own mind, but I'll take the extra layer. I'm very safety-conscious, but I'm a human being. Even though I've personally never made a mistake yet :rolleyes:, the data from the rest of humanity says I am likely to make one sometime. If that occassion happens to be while I'm handling a gun, I'd like to have to make several mistakes for that error to be the worst moment of my life.

[RatherNotSay]

"Neither of the Glocks I had were reliable, even after spending months at the factory."

Now we know honesty is PERHAPS slipping from our discussion. Rebuilding a Glock takes minutes for an experienced armorer. I find it very hard to believe a Glock spent "months" at any factory. Do you really want to stand by that statement, Mr Paul? The more you talk the more trouble you get in.
Maybe they just realized the gun was going into the hands of a person who couldn't handle such a simple weapon and figured he would just give up

[HKGuns]

I can't believe you guys are actually trying to argue with gLoCk "perfection"!

[whalerman]

Yes ATL, that's why I unload my Glock, lock it in a case, then lock that case in a safe, throw the safe in a river and lose the key and the combination. I then pray for an icy winter.

Will this ever end? ATL do you advocate another manual lock system on double action revolvers? Just answer the question. Please. On second thought, never mind.

You might be happy to know that I've even fitted my Glock with a little arrow on the slide that points in the direction the barrel opens. That way I can't get confused about which way it is pointing. I wouldn't be surprised that many good and thoughtful folks who commited suicide and shot themselves in the face did so thinking they were shooting downrange and just got their directions mixed up. You can never be too safe. I agree with you. One more level of safety is always a good idea. My bright red arrow will make my gun impossible for that to happen.

[HoosierQ]

I think this thread goes down in history as the dumbest thread ever with so many genuinely thoughtful responses.

If you don't trust a Glock for the reason stated, you need to get out of the shooting sports altogether. All other alternatives are also designed to...here's a thought...fire! Pull the trigger, fire the gun. Forget to decock, pull the trigger, fire the gun, forget to put on safe, pull the trigger, fire the gun.

Not a Glock thing.

[whalerman]

And I sincerely apologize for my part in contributing to the dumbness. I am now standing on my Glock, as I'm thinking it is thinking about flying around the house and attacking my family. Not here, not ever. I'm gonna trigger lock the damn thing.

[FlyinBryan]

If you don't trust a Glock for the reason stated, you need to get out of the shooting sports altogether.

maybe a tad excessive.

i reserve the right to choose to own firearms with proven mechanical safeties that prevent ignition from inadvertant/accidental pressure on the trigger if ive been astute enough to engage such a safety, and still remain in shooting sports if thats what floats my boat.

[ShawnC]

I choose to understand the function of my gun and not operate that weapon contrary to it's function i.e. pulling the trigger while the gun is loaded and pointed in a direction I don't want the bullet to go. I choose to trust the drop safety inherent in most modern firearms. But that's just me.

[GLOOB]

Why I don't trust a Glock

"Lucky girl suffers only minor injury from ricocheting bullet"

Read more: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_84...cc4c002e0.html

Of course the shooter's story is just that, maybe there's more to it. In any event, I always felt my Glock erred on the side of being easier to fire than not, which could be a good thing in many circumstances I suppose. It's the main reason I sold it, not because it wouldn't go bang when needed, more about going bang when not needed.

Anyway, looks like the prosecutor has a decision to make.

OP knows his limitations. Good for him. I know lots of people that don't trust themselves with any gun. Good for them. I don't want anyone handling a firearm anywhere near me who isn't competent and comfortable with it. If only the other Plaxico's out there could realize their own limitations, then Glocks wouldn't be shooting people, unintentionally.