[cpileri]

As long as the barrel is kept >16" and the OAL >26", can I chop down a bolt action shoulder stock to the point where it is a 'pistol grip' configuration?

No other pistol-like changes, just the stock-chop. No detachable magazine, no barrel less than 16 inches.

Or is this now making a pistol (albeit a really loooooonng one) out of a rifle?

Are bolt-actions subject to the AWB stuff like flash hiders vs muzzle brakes, etc?

Basically I am thinking about a 'TC Encore-ish' type project; but from a rifle and with a rifle-lenght barrel and a pistol grip.

Nevermind how silly, or ugly this idea may be: just want to be sure its legal before I think of which rifle with a cracked stock to buy.
thanks,
C-

[Mark Tyson]

AS far as I know, the ban affects magazine fed semi-automatic rifles, not bolt actions.

Barrel length is regulated by the NFA 34, not the assault weapons ban.

Why you would want to put a pistol grip on a mauser is another question altogether ... you're scaring me, man.

[cpileri]

I dunno. Just got to thinking about the 'short-but-not-short-range' compact rifle type firearms one day and thought I could do it justice with a milsurp that needed some beauty work.

A buddy has a TC which he loves, and it got me thinking. Besides, if a guy can handle 300 Win Mag in a 14-inch barrel and pistol grip, then a 16-incher (and extra weight from the receiver/action/cartridges) with the right muzzle brake should be just fine.

In my amateur artists/ amateur gunsmith mind (more amateur than anything else, i assure you) I ca even see it looking somewhat classy!
Not looking to ruin it.

C-

[Jim March]

You know where this makes sense, sticking just within the NFA limits of course?

A 357Mag levergun.

:)

Lesse...if you started with a 16" barrel, meeting the overall length spec might be rough. But 18" barrels are common too and would give you an extra round or two.

Recoil wouldn't be too crazy at all. You could hang it off your belt on a hook with the saddle ring :).

Put a scout scope on it...:D

[ctdonath]

Seems legal, comparable to putting a pistol grip (only) on a regular shotgun.

If it ever had a shoulder stock, it's a rifle forever and always - even if the stock is removed. As long as it complies with barrel & overall length limits you noted, it is still legally a rifle (your local jurisdiction may differ).

[cpileri]

Absolutely would my plan be to stay within the NFA rules, thats why i am asking.

So it is legal then?
(as long as the 16 inch/ 26 inch (and non-semi or full auto) rule is observed)

Just want to hear it straight.

And if its legal with a bolt-action, I would wager it would be legal with say a NEF Handi-rifle (single-shot). yes?

Now, as for the practicality and soundness of the idea, well... haven't gotten that far. Still in the brainstorm phase.

Besides the 'let's just see if i can' appeal; it has the one major advantage of CO$T being waaayyyy less than a TC 15-inch 30-06!

C-

[ctdonath]

Federally legal, your local jurisdiction may vary.

To stay on the safe side, ask the BATF in writing.

[ctdonath]

While not what you're asking for legally speaking, you may be interested in this:


Wild West Guns' Bushwacker (http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/body_bushwacker.html) , available in .457 Magnum or .50 Alaskan. "Surprisingly managable."

[cpileri]

All those Wild West Guns are super cool. Been drooling over them on and off for a couple years now.

The shortened rifle is an SBR. if I wanted to go the NFA route, the my post wouldnt have been really necessary. I am trying the 'simple' route so far.

I have to admit, i am not so invested and enamored with my idea that I would pursue it through the NFA and all that paperwork. I'd drop the idea before that, in all honesty.

thanks ALOT for getting me fiending over the WWG site again! That's all I need is another distraction!
C-

[ctdonath]

The NFA route isn't all that bad, ya just have to do all the steps.

I did it (got a Mossberg 590 AOW) just to see what it was like. Obnoxious the first time thru, doesn't seem so bad afterwards. Now ya got me thinking about whether NY considers a SBR sans stock a pistol...

[cpileri]

Yeah, I have some NFA paperwork in the 'waiting phase' right now. Unfortunately, I can't expect any action for me to check up on to take place until early April.
Its my first experience with the NFA process, so we'll see if it sours me forever or not.
C-

[cpileri]

And while we're at it, i have been brainstorming ways to maximize the effectiveness of this contraption: making the lower-velocity projectile 9from the shortened barrel) still flat-shooting and such.

Need to maximize ballistic coefficient, get a match barrel maybe. Bed the barrel, true the action. Handload, etc

Well, maybe a re-chambering to a different caliber?

So...

If you all had to pick a relatively common caliber with projo's that have really good B.C.'s, what would you pick?

In 8mm Mauser (.323) the Lost River technologies sells a 210 gr J36 with a BC of .536. That's pretty good!http://www.lostriverballistic.com/LRB/ItemDetails.cfm?CNum=34

In .308 cal they have a J36 180gr with a .672!

For their J40's in .308, the 168gr has a .534 and the 220gr has a whopping .930!

Figure this shortened beast should have every advantage in flat shooting within its range as possible.

Any other ideas on projectiles or anything else?
C-

[cpileri]

So OK I am still pumped up about this project which is not usual with my short attention sp... ... huh?

Anyways...

Check out this:
(2nd pic down the page)
http://www.setel.com/~maxwells/mausercentral/gungallery17.htm

Hill's Custom gun works beat me to it! I spoke with him and he said that with the Gunner's Choice muzzle brake you can fire it from a recoil standpoint, though unwieldy, one-handed! His words.

He actually recommended I do what the guy (FM Sniper) who made the rifle just above the one I referred to: the black sniper adorned rifle, did which is get one of those ATI mauser stocks with the not-quite a good idea scope mount as part of the stock and use it fo rmy project.

Of course he (we) said to toss the upper portion and then file the grip down, smooth and maybe wrap or otherwise finish the grip surface, adn bed the action/bbl as usual.

I will chose a brake that I think i like and if I can't attach it, i will find a gunsmith who can. Even though it looks like a beer can stuck on a barrel, i think i like the concept of the JP Rifles Compensator: if it can be bored out for .323, that is. So bored to .363 or something...

Anyone used either the ATI stock, JP compensator, or anything else that I might like to think about?

C-

[Gewehr98]

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=781804

Although, at one time, somebody did produce a small run of 98 Mauser actions intended, and marked, for pistol use. Kinda like the Remington XP-100 and Savage Striker. No NFA registration needed for those.

[cpileri]

I believe he bought unused stripped receivers, so he can build up whatever he wants.
BTW: his looks better than mine in case you thought there was a chance it was any different.
Still i like mine because it is my own.
But if I did do the NFA thing, I think I would've chopped the barrel to 14-inches.
C-

[Harry Tuttle]

the centergrip, thumb hole, custom Xp100s were lookers

[cpileri]

Hey get this. The hold up on my JP Recoil Eliminator has been, frankly, the price. 85-90 bucks depending on where you get it from.
Well, i broke down and called brownell's and the price was 68 bucks! 72 bucks shipped.
I'll post pics when its done.
The Thread alignment starter and 1/2x28 die and now the brake added a bit to the cost of the project.
But this is fun!
C-

[Third_Rail]

Wait, so it's legal to chop down a levergun to whatever length, as long as it has 26 oal and a 16 bbl? Oh, the possibilities... I can almost see this (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/1894_centerfireRifles/1894PG.htm) chopped down to a pistol grip levergun... Yum. The only problem I run into in my thought process of going through it is shortening the tube magazine as well as the barrel, is that possible?

Or maybe this (http://www.winchester-guns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=086&cat=003C) shortened... but I run into the same problem, the magazine.

[ctdonath]

Third_Rail:
Check out the Bushwacker mentioned above. I'm sure they'd do a "legal length" version.