S&W 442 / 642 No-Lock - Rare?


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average_shooter
October 14, 2011, 11:37 PM
So I was at a nearby Gander Mtn. last weekend and was looking at revolvers and asked if they had any no-lock 642's. The salesman was fairly adamant that all S&W's have locks nowadays. I double checked Smith's website and they do list the no-ILS 642 / 442.

I was at another, larger Gander tonight (one of their "Academy" equipped stores) and inquired again if that gentleman knew how long it might take to order in a no-ILS Smith. He had never heard of them and was quite skeptical as to their existence.

I don't get it; I thought people wanted the no-ILS Smiths, especially in the J-frame size? I figured they'd be all over the place. But for two counter guys at two separate locations of a major retailer to have never heard of them sounds very odd.

What's the deal?

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Arp32
October 14, 2011, 11:44 PM
I ordered and received a no-lock 642-1 from Gilbert's Guns 2 months ago. I think the sales clerks are underinformed...

msnden
October 15, 2011, 12:20 AM
Yes, they can be had either way, lock / no lock, Gander mt or cabalas (for the most part) are about the last places I would go to talk "guns" jmop

average_shooter
October 15, 2011, 12:25 AM
Gander mt ... are about the last places I would go to talk "guns" jmop

Yeah, I kind of started to realize that when the CCW instructor made the comment that ALL Glocks are double-stack (uh, G36 is single stack... :scrutiny: ) which wouldn't have been too bad, but all the training / inert guns they used were Glock-built special-purpose trainers.

msnden
October 15, 2011, 12:33 AM
Give Mike a call, he will put you in a nice 642/442 nolock at a great price,

http://msnden.smugmug.com/Sports/shooting/i-Bgn8Ldc/0/M/LASSBusinessCardFront-M.png

average_shooter
October 15, 2011, 12:42 AM
Appreciate msnden, but I'm really just kicking tires at the moment. Actually, I just bought a new (to me) vehicle today, so my gun-funds are gone for a while. But I do like knowing where to get one from when my funds come back up.

P7
October 15, 2011, 12:49 AM
A bit off topic but does S&W offer other no-lock models?

average_shooter
October 15, 2011, 01:05 AM
A search of their products (http://search.smith-wesson.com/search?client=default_frontend&site=default_collection&start=0&num=16&filter=p&getfields=product-image.product-sku.product-atr1.product-atr2.product-atr3&q=no+internal+lock&x=0&y=0) turns up three results. Ok four, but they list M&P 340 both with and without the Crimson Trace grips. And the 442 and 642. Other than that, looks like they've all got the lock.

P7
October 15, 2011, 01:41 AM
Average Shooter: Thanks. Nice work.

Tony_the_tiger
October 15, 2011, 01:56 AM
New S&W 442-1 no lock, .38 special + P, available from davidsons. They are current production firearms and should be readily available for order from distributors like davidsons, but you won't see them on many shelves. Most retail stores I visited were not aware of these either.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae269/kiwirat33/IMG-20110909-000581.jpg

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae269/kiwirat33/442-20111011-00131.jpg

See the 642 club part III for more discussion and photos.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=554071

GGF
October 15, 2011, 09:36 AM
I had the same experence at Bass Pro, I asked about the 642 NL and got the same "nope, don't make 'em" story from the staff.

I know better because I've found them on Gunbroker.

Now, they did tell me the Taurus Judge was the best home defence weapon made .... :scrutiny: and I AM grateful for that tid-bit of information.

GGF

Old Fuff
October 15, 2011, 11:29 AM
It is a lot easier for a retailer to stock "a" single variant of a model, then to keep two or more in inventory. Therefore in some stores it's not unusual to find out that what they have is the only available choice. For that reason I often end up at some other shop. :banghead:

msnden
October 15, 2011, 08:44 PM
[QUOTE=Tony_the_tiger;7655600]New S&W 442-1 no lock, .38 special + P, available from davidsons. They are current production firearms and should be readily available for order from distributors like davidsons, but you won't see them on many shelves. Most retail stores I visited were not aware of these either.
][/QUOTE


Triple T, This is one GREAT photo!!!! msn

http://msnden.smugmug.com/Sports/shooting/i-gVRscGt/0/M/IMG-20110909-000581-M.jpg

GEM
October 16, 2011, 12:37 PM
I think I saw no locks in Cabela's the other day and some local stores.

Hondo 60
October 16, 2011, 03:57 PM
Yes, they can be had either way, lock / no lock, Gander mt or cabalas (for the most part) are about the last places I would go to talk "guns" jmop

AMEN! I went to GM a couple of months ago looking for Tite Group or Accurate Arms #5 (smokeless powder) & they had no idea what I was talking about. I had to go in their powder cabinet & get it myself.

Guillermo
October 17, 2011, 12:03 AM
if they would only make them No Lock, No MIM, No multi piece barrel...

saenzrich
October 17, 2011, 10:41 AM
I purchased one from here back in July....called on a Weds. and it was at my FFL Fri. morning. Alot of places have the option lock or no-lock.....

http://www.centerfireguns.com/smith-and-wesson-38-special-150544.html

rdrancher
October 17, 2011, 11:15 AM
if they would only make them No Lock, No MIM, No multi piece barrel...and pigs could fly...

There, finished it for ya. ;)

Guillermo
October 17, 2011, 01:38 PM
finished it for ya

thank you

I know it is an impossible dream.

PaisteMage
November 8, 2011, 11:26 PM
Is the internal lock that BAD?

I have two kids and kind of like the idea....

I know they exist and was told the SAME thing at a local sporting goods store.

The salesman acted like he had no time for me, not going back there.

What, if any, is the opinion AGAINST this gun WITH lock?

I am in the market for one soon.

To my layman mindset, it SHOULDN'T interfere with operation, but mostly aesthetics and a safety feature.

PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.

average_shooter
November 8, 2011, 11:55 PM
To my layman mindset, it SHOULDN'T interfere with operation, but mostly aesthetics and a safety feature.

Well, if it didn't interfere with the operation it wouldn't really be a good lock. By function and definition it interferes. Normally this isn't a problem, because it can be "unlocked." However, there have been documented instances of these locks failing and disabling firearms.

Bottom line is, more parts means more things to go wrong or break. Murphy's Law and whatnot.

Things like the Springfield version of the Internal Lock can be worked around by simply getting a new main spring housing. The Smiths have the lock as a part of the frame, so even if removed you end up with a hole in the side of the revolver to collect dirt, dust, lint, grit, etc...

I have no desire to own a defensive firearm that could fail like that. Many other people apparently feel the same way I do because S&W manufactures the x42 in both Lock and No-Lock versions.

Guillermo
November 9, 2011, 02:27 AM
Paiste

The idea of a lock, in and of itself is not necessarily bad.

The S&W lock is one of the most idiotic designs since the nuclear rifle (it's range was less than the blast zone)

Some companies, like Taurus, have a lock that works side to side.

The Smith lock works on the same axis, and opposite, as the recoil of the gun. Therefore it sometimes locks itself while shooting. (if you are old enough to remember screen doors...think about when the hook gets caught in the up position and slamming it. It hooks itself)

Other guns, like the Ruger and Taurus have locks...but the Smith was designed is thoroughly idiotic.

oldfool
November 9, 2011, 09:02 AM
Paiste, welcome to THR

that whole S&W ILS lock thing is probably the #1 HOT topic in any/all revolver forums, has been for many years now
(you might want to fasten your seat beat !)

short version being what G said
bad design
nobody actually likes 'em or wants 'em (except Safe-T-Hammer, the parent company who bought up S&W some years ago)
but... they only very rarely actually fail in actually practice, and even then most prone to do so in a ultralite magnum, re; harsh recoil
and they are quite easily removed, and the hole can be plugged
so.. a lot of people (self included) really don't worry about it
but extreme few actually like it (nor do I)

and if S&W ever gave it up, we would then have to settle for MIM flame wars as #1 HOT topic ! ;)

PaisteMage
November 9, 2011, 09:09 AM
My GUT tells me it is pretty dumb because if the inevitale could happen, accidental locking, it could be bad.

I know by definition it would interfere with lock.

I guess my phrasing should have been, during normal operation I would't think that it would lock itself.

For this matter alone I have some thoughts against it.

I like the idea, but I could put an actual, oh I don't know padlock on there!:evil: But to me, as a machinist, less interference, less to go wrong.

My thing is, when the chips are down would I be thinking of where to find the key? What If the key wasn't easily accessible? What if I am in the dark and an intruder is in my home.

What am I to do ? "Hold on bad guy , I have to unlock my gun, please don't harm me in the interim."

I saw it and thought, that could work as long as no reported problems.

One failure is enough for me.

I think when I opt to get one of these weapons, I'll go lockless.

Guillermo
November 9, 2011, 10:08 AM
as a machinist, less interference, less to go wrong

with your experience you certainly understand the lunacy of the lock turning on the same axis as the recoil of the gun. Any looseness in the mechanism and the gun locks itself.

Doesn't happen often but it happens.

David E
November 9, 2011, 12:19 PM
The original design called for it to be installed in the triggerguard. Turn it "on," it blocked the trigger.

Thing was, they were bulky and ugly. So ugly, sales would suffer. So they came up with the current unobtrusive design.

I never saw one with the safety mounted in the triggerguard, but I did see pictures of it, possibly even in their catalog.

Guillermo
November 9, 2011, 01:06 PM
we would then have to settle for MIM flame wars as #1 HOT topic

Now come on OF...you know we could find SOMETHING to flame about.

We had arguments before MIM and IL

PaisteMage
November 9, 2011, 08:23 PM
Yeah that makes sense

David S
November 23, 2011, 08:41 AM
Proper safety training for your kids is the right way to handle that, not adding a lock to a gun.
Thats "egging" the chicken

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