Does anyone use guns4pennies auction site?


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chutestrate
October 16, 2011, 11:04 PM
How does it work. I read the getting started information, and it makes no sense to me. Are people buying and selling way under market value???

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Firemedic56
October 16, 2011, 11:14 PM
Technically a scam. It's just a penny auction but for guns. You buy a set amount of bids for a price then every time you bid time is added to allow others to bid. Every bid used isn't credited back if you lose so you (and everyone else) basically pay the entire price and then some to win something for "pennies".

Just google penny auctions if that wasn't clear enough.

Hk Paul
October 16, 2011, 11:16 PM
I know nothing about that site but I can already tell you, like the poster above, that it is a scam.


"If it is too good to be true, it probbly isn't".

Sam Cade
October 16, 2011, 11:50 PM
Yup. Its a scam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidding_fee_auction

trigerhppy
October 17, 2011, 04:26 AM
It's a risk, not a scam. Yes, there are more losers than winners there, like any penny auction, but you know that going in. Penny auctions certainly aren't for everybody, but if you have a good mix of luck and skill you can win and be ahead of the game. I've won several items there, and will go back to bid on more. www.allpennyauctions.com/users/Guns4Pennies.com/trigerhppy/


Below is the description of how these work from their facebook page:


Penny auctions work like this: Users purchase packages of bids. Depending on how many they buy at a time, the bids cost between $0.97-$0.68 apiece on G4P site. During an auction, the timer counts down, but anytime someone uses a bid it is deducted from their account and the timer is reset to 30 seconds. If the timer reaches 0, the last person to have placed a bid gets to purchase the item for that price. In this type of auction, both the user and the business are taking a chance. The business takes a chance that enough people will have bid on an item (thus spending those 97-68 cents each time) that they will have covered the cost of the item and allow us to make a profit. The users are taking the chance that they will be the last person to bid, spending less than they would have to buy the gun or accessory in a normal manner. If they don't win the auction, they've still already spent the money to bid, but the possibility of winning an item fairly cheap is worth the risk to those who've decided to participate. Many also like the excitement that this type of auction brings. Some things you will see sell very very cheap (http://www.guns4pennies.com/auctions/closed). Those are the times that our chance didn't pay off and we lost money on the items. It happens fairly often. But overall enough people enjoy the auctions that they keep coming back and create a sustainable business.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 17, 2011, 04:47 AM
Either way you try to slice it, I personally believe it's a scam and won't even dream of participating in these things. Nope. Won't try. No company like this will ever see my money.

Hk Paul
October 17, 2011, 05:09 AM
If you bid on something, and you don't win, BUT you loose your money anyways- guess what, it's a scam.

No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American public.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 17, 2011, 05:14 AM
That should be criminal in my opinion.

chutestrate
October 17, 2011, 07:43 AM
Ok, still clear as mud. The site will sometimes loose and make money. What happens to the seller? Does the site give the seller what they are asking for their product or does the seller take a hit?

45_auto
October 17, 2011, 07:59 AM
Each bid increment is a penny.

You buy bids for a certain amount. For example, 100 bids may cost you $50, which means the auction site makes $.50 each time you bid.

So if you see a $900 AR15 sell for $21.34, that means that there were 2134 penny bids made on that gun.

2134 times $.50 means that the auction site recieved $1,067 in bid fees for that rifle.

Everybody loses the cost of their bids except the person who won the item.

If you had started bidding when the rifle was $20.00 (you bid $20.00, somebody else jumps you to $20.01, you bid $20.02, etc) you would have used up all 50 of your bids when the rifle hit $21.00. So you dropped $50 and still don't have a gun that sold for "only" $21.34.

JohnBT
October 17, 2011, 08:10 AM
"Not a scam"

Thanks for dropping by to explain all of that in exquisite detail with your first post.

I didn't read it. :D

beatledog7
October 17, 2011, 09:11 AM
Caveat emptor!

Such auctions are legal in the states where they're hosted; the attorneys have been consulted, you can bet. I don't play these, nor do I buy lottery tickets or shoot craps in Vegas. The only gamble I sometimes take is on horse racing.

lead slinger
October 17, 2011, 09:55 AM
Trigger happy must own the site. It is a joke u can sign up they will give you 5 dollars to try it out but all u do is help them make more money. Bottom line stay on the high road and enjoy

Sav .250
October 17, 2011, 10:00 AM
Never heard of it........

Dnaltrop
October 17, 2011, 11:01 AM
I never paid attention to these sites... Something for (nearly) Nothing is the nectar of Fools.

The instant I heard Beezid using Lindsay Lohan to hawk their wares, I knew everything I needed to know about penny-bid sites.

What kind of company looks at a brain-dead, spoiled-brat, narcissistic drug addict and says "THAT will improve our image!, THAT is what our company is about!" ?

No offence to the Operator of this other website, but in today's economy... It makes no sense whatsoever to play games with my money, when I could just walk out and spend it myself on things I need.

hso
October 17, 2011, 11:08 AM
It is similar to gambling.

You buy points with real money, you expend points/money in the auction. If you win the auction you get something in exchange for your points/money. If you don't win the auction you loose the points and the money that bought the points.

Winners usually come out very well. Losers have lost their money. How much depends upon how far you went to win and didn't. If you understand the rules of the game and go in with your eyes open to what the risks are it isn't any worse, or better, than going into any casino and playing.

ErikO
October 17, 2011, 11:11 AM
If you don't mind paying $.01 to $500 over MSRP, feel free to use them.

Personally, I'd rather skip it and use the 'traditional' websites. CDNN, J&G Sales, Bud's Guns, etc.

chutestrate
October 17, 2011, 11:40 AM
Don't think I'm going to be using this venue to buy or sell guns. It may not be a scam, but I can't get any clear answers as to what happens when a seller uses the site. Do I actually take 50 bucks for a $300 gun?

Onward Allusion
October 17, 2011, 12:13 PM
As bad as a Ponzi scheme, except it's in reverse. Last one in gets the money/goods while everyone else loses.

chutestrate
October 17, 2011, 12:34 PM
I definitely won't be using the site, but does anyone really know how it works? I don't see any clear explanations of the process. Just curious now. Is it really a scam or just a risk someone needs to be aware of.

What happens to a seller?

chutestrate
October 17, 2011, 12:55 PM
ohhhh, I think I've been dense. Is it the site that sells items and sellers can't list items there?

TexasRifleman
October 17, 2011, 01:12 PM
I definitely won't be using the site, but does anyone really know how it works? I don't see any clear explanations of the process. Just curious now. Is it really a scam or just a risk someone needs to be aware of.

Not a scam, if you understand what it does.

Basically you pay for the privilege of bidding. Each bid costs you money. Eventually someone will "win" the auction and buy a gun for, say, $45. But, he may have spent $500 in points to bid enough to win, so he really pays $545 for the gun.

Some other guy bidding against him may have spent $400 in points to bid, and got nothing for his $400. Along with every other person who bid.

You're better off buying a scratch off or going to Vegas, but it's not a scam really.

JohnBT
October 17, 2011, 01:46 PM
"than going into any casino and playing. "

Will guns4pennies give me free drinks, dinners and rooms like the casinos do?

I was born at night, but not last night.

John

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 17, 2011, 02:26 PM
ohhhh, I think I've been dense. Is it the site that sells items and sellers can't list items there?
As far as I know, all penny auctions work like that. They are not an auction service like eBay, but a vendor selling good via an auction format.


Basically you pay for the privilege of bidding. Each bid costs you money. Eventually someone will "win" the auction and buy a gun for, say, $45. But, he may have spent $500 in points to bid enough to win, so he really pays $545 for the gun.

Some other guy bidding against him may have spent $400 in points to bid, and got nothing for his $400. Along with every other person who bid.

While this might be true, these sites thrive on have hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of people who are willing to throw a few bucks here and there for a chance to buy something at a very low price.

Here's a perfect example of from our "winner" above:
http://www.allpennyauctions.com/auctions/6e6b2ab28da7eb92/
Keep in mind that it only shows the last 10 bids, which is why it says there are only 5 unique bidders. I suspect there were at least several hundred unique bidders.

24189 bids @ $0.80 $19351.20
Price + $241.89
Retail - $3000.00
Guns4Pennies.com Profited $16593.09

So, while trigerhppy got it for $241.89, plus the price of his bids (care to share how many times you bid on that auction and how many times on all your other auctions, win or lose, trigerhppy?), the other bidders spent around $19,000 for the chance to buy it, but to no avail.

Sure, trigerhppy may have gotten a good deal, maybe a smoking deal if he played his cards right and didn't spend a lot on bids that didn't win, but there were a whole bunch more losers.

mgregg85
October 17, 2011, 04:11 PM
I'd rather just buy a gun than give any money to those scammers.

trigerhppy
October 17, 2011, 04:20 PM
No I don't own the site, work for the site, invest in it, or in any other way benefit from it, but the fact is, it's not a scam. You know BEFORE you get involved in it what the risk is. Do you think every raffle is a scam because the people who's tickets didn't get picked didn't win something?

Every time I get involved in an auction there I know there is a good chance I might not win that particular item. I know the risk and it's acceptable to me. Just like every single other person on there has decided. I just know that I play with some extra cash I have and can afford to lose. It's entertaining, and I've gotten some great deals. Yes, I have done much better than most people, but that's because there is skill as well as luck involved.

What it comes down to for me is that as a Sergeant in the Army there is no way I could have afforded to buy all the guns and accessories I've won on there in a traditional manner, and I've enjoyed the whole process. When I'm at the range with something I've won, I really don't care what you think about how I've gotten it.

trigerhppy
October 17, 2011, 05:02 PM
Well Jorg, since you asked so nicely, here is a record of my bids on that auction. The page with the first and last bids on the MR556A1 are blown up so you can see, and the others have 50 bids on each screen, but not all were on that item, since I threw a few on other auctions as well at the same time. I ended up using 473 bids to win that one. I purchased a package of 500 bids for $350, which means each bid cost me $0.70. So that's $331.10 in bids, $241.89 for the item itself, $30 for shipping, and I paid $50 to my local FFL for transfer. That means I got the rifle for a total of $652.99, which you may have noticed is just a tad under retail for this model.

As far as bids on other auctions I haven't won, there have been plenty, way to many to take screen shots to show you. But overall I've won way more than I've paid there. Yes, I know others have lost more, but that's a risk everybody willingly takes.http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac313/trigerhppy/BidsG4P.jpg

trigerhppy
October 17, 2011, 06:58 PM
(866) 394-4847 * I've talked to the owner several times when I've won items, and the company is small enough that he always answers their customer service line listed above. He's a good guy, former soldier, and is very personable. If you really think this is a scam, how about giving him a call and actually personally insulting him rather than just calling him a criminal or scam artist in a chat board. Or you may actually learn something and be able to make an informed decision rather than making a snap judgement.*

As it says in hso's tagline, "Try being informed instead of opinionated".

JohnBT
October 17, 2011, 07:05 PM
"It's entertaining, and I've gotten some great deals."

I have other things to do for entertainment than goof around with hit or miss auctions with wacky rules. If you're happy getting "some great deals" when you get lucky then you are getting your entertainment money's worth.

It's still funny how you showed up here all of a sudden on this topic. And why would I want to talk to the site owner? I don't want anything to do with it. Are y'all related?

John

JohnBT
October 17, 2011, 07:17 PM
Just so everyone knows, the site requires you to buy "bids" upfront by paying with a charge card. That's right, you pay before you ever get to bid.

Probably non-refundable too from I've just read using Google. I wonder what the minimum is, $300? I'm not curious enough to dive into the site or even register.

Good luck to all of you adventurous folks. I think I'd rather take my chances in Vegas or AC.

John

wally
October 17, 2011, 07:26 PM
I don't understand how these are not classified as "lotteries" or other gambling.

N003k
October 17, 2011, 07:31 PM
Alright, I tried the site out, at least with the 5 free bids they give you...and really don't see how it's a 'scam'

The bid packages are as follows:
Bids/Cost
30/$29
50/$45
100/$80
200/$150
500/$350
1000/$680

I look at it this way...I'm willing to put just as much into it as I would into a raffle to win that gun. Just like a raffle, if I don't win, I'm still out the money. Only difference is if I DO win it, I have to pay a bit more.

I think it's pretty interesting really, and think I might occasionally purchase a 30bid package and try my luck. And John, you might not like it, but, some people do, and if they want to get involved and try it, what's the harm? It's really no more of a scam than any other type of gambling...the only difference is in this case, the gambling is for one prize and continues til everyone else gives up. Pay your money, take your chances, just like any other type of gambling.

And no, I have no ties to it, if I did, I'd have a heckuva lot more guns by now probably :neener:

Sam Cade
October 17, 2011, 07:33 PM
Y'know, If you google "trigerhppy" you get users with posts about "Guns4pennies" and not much else.

That is pretty interesting.

http://www.allpennyauctions.com/auctions/6e6b2ab28da7eb92/


I am intersted in having a software written to automatically bid on penny auctions independent of the program built into the auction site. I would like to be able to specify which auctions on a site.....

http://www.freelanceonlinejobs.com/automatic-auction-bidding-by-trigerhppy-on-dec-23-max-bid-open-to-fair-suggestions.html

trigerhppy
October 17, 2011, 07:35 PM
"It's entertaining, and I've gotten some great deals."

I have other things to do for entertainment than goof around with hit or miss auctions with wacky rules. If you're happy getting "some great deals" when you get lucky then you are getting your entertainment money's worth.

It's still funny how you showed up here all of a sudden on this topic. And why would I want to talk to the site owner? I don't want anything to do with it. Are y'all related?

John
No John, we're not related. I simply thought the spirit of this board was to be informed, and also tend to dislike when people attack someone I consider innocent who isn't there to defend themselves. And as far as just showing up, I've actually been registered here since 2008 reading posts and researching. I don't come on very often, so usually by the time I could have given insight into something, the topic has been posted for awhile and someone else has already given the information, so there has been no reason for me to post. It just so happened that I logged in and saw this when it was still current, and I had relevant info.

And yes, it requires you to buy bids, which is not news to anybody who read my first post, which you were to condescending to read.

Mp7
October 17, 2011, 07:36 PM
i play texas holdem deepstacks.

trigerhppy
October 17, 2011, 07:36 PM
Y'know, If you google "trigerhppy" you get users with posts about "Guns4pennies" and not much else.

That is pretty interesting.

http://www.allpennyauctions.com/auctions/6e6b2ab28da7eb92/




http://www.freelanceonlinejobs.com/automatic-auction-bidding-by-trigerhppy-on-dec-23-max-bid-open-to-fair-suggestions.html
That's correct Sam, I did look into that. You will also noticed I cancelled the job there after further reading the terms of service.

kozak6
October 18, 2011, 04:32 AM
What were the terms of service? It says "Employer cancelled on 2/20/2011 1:27:11 AM because: "Cancelled by automated program due to time expiration".

There seems to be only two uses for such a program: auction sniping or shill bidding.

It looks like it could be for either at this point.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 18, 2011, 05:57 AM
Eh, you can keep your pennies to broke auctions, I'll just stick with the PROPER way to buy firearms.

JohnBT
October 18, 2011, 08:06 AM
"and really don't see how it's a 'scam'"

Other than being an auction where you have to pay up front? And that the "bids" you buy can expire at some undefined time? You mean other than that? And the bids you make on an item you lose if you don't win that auction? And then you have to buy more bids to keep playing.

Scam is probably not accurate. Preying on the gullible and foolish is more like it.


I see a Trigerhppy registered this June at usacarry.com and posted "It's legit" on the same day - 6/11. I suppose he justs likes supporting them. Uh-huh.

www.usacarry.com/forums/off-topic/18122-cant-real.html

N003k
October 18, 2011, 11:48 AM
I'll gladly grant that it's targeted towards people with more money than sense, as yesterday I watched a beretta 92 climb to 16-17$ which is well higher than the cost for the seller since they sell bids, but I think the problem is many people see it more like an auction, which it hardly is (which is fair enough since they CALL it an auction) I look at it more like an interactive raffle, with each 'bid' equating to a raffle entry. Last one to throw their ticket in, wins.

SSN Vet
October 18, 2011, 03:31 PM
I find it amusing that anytime someone comes up with a business model that finds some new and innovative way to appeal to human greed, they usually make quite a tidy sum.

reinforces my belief that 'T' is for total depravity

trigerhppy
October 18, 2011, 06:35 PM
Let's see, I am on a website where I have done very well, getting guns and accessories I've wanted in a way I can afford....YES, I do like supporting them. I'm also on the Sig forum, S&W forum, ar15.com, saiga-12.com, snipershide.com, and a ton of other chat boards. I don't post much, but when I see someone making a claim I know is false, I'm going to say something. Personally, if you stand by and let people accuse another person of being a criminal when you know they're innocent, and you say nothing, you're pure scum in my opinion.

@kozack6, the terms were a prohibition on using third party bidding software. At the time I didn't like the way the bid buddy was set up and felt it was putting users at a disadvantage, by bidding to early, much like the system on another website called fishnbang still does. When I read through and saw guns4pennies didn't allow me to use software like that in their terms, I cancelled the project.

I like the website, and despite all the other advertising they do, the gun business is still a very personal one and relies heavily on word of mouth. I want them to do well and stay in business, and offer more things, so that I can continue trying to win them. Thus, when I see people making completely unsubstantiated false claims which could hurt the business and possibly cause them to close, I will continue to say something. A ton of other firearm penny auctions have not succeeded for a bunch of different reasons, but this one has been going for almost a year, and I want to keep it that way. People making assertions that it's a scam, besides that act being simply wrong in and of itself, threaten my ability to keep using the site I enjoy. You may not personally like the business model, but every one of us on the site has weighed the pros and cons and decided we want to use it. You don't. Fine, stay the away from it then. But don't call the people running it scammers.

Sam Cade
October 18, 2011, 07:06 PM
A ton of other firearm penny auctions have not succeeded for a bunch of different reasons, but this one has been going for almost a year, and I want to keep it that way.


A whole year. Wow.




People making assertions that it's a scam, besides that act being simply wrong in and of itself, threaten my ability to keep using the site I enjoy.

I think the outcome of all of the class action lawsuits against penny auction sites and the inevitable realization by state and local governments that penny auctions aren't auctions, but are in fact a new twist on the numbers racket, will prevent you from using the site you enjoy.



But don't call the people running it scammers.

Indeed. Don't call them scammers.

Call them racketeers, its more appropriate.

JohnBT
October 18, 2011, 09:49 PM
Uh-oh, now you've introduced facts into the discussion. :uhoh:

You know their goose is cooked when they resort to name calling. We're scum for disagreeing with them. SCUM.

John

JohnBT
October 18, 2011, 09:55 PM
"...many people see it more like an auction, which it hardly is (which is fair enough since they CALL it an auction)"

If it's not an auction, and they call it an auction, isn't that deception? False advertising? Lying?

N003k
October 18, 2011, 11:22 PM
Definitely fair enough John, and at this point, I'm bowing out, because while I don't see anything WRONG with it, I'm not exactly a user of it, or a huge advocate, so I really don't see any GOOD reason to debate it.

I'll end my participation by saying that yes, it's a questionable premise, and of questionable integrity. However, I feel that if you choose to participate you should know what you're getting yourself into, and not complain when you lose far more than you wanted to. The way it works seems to be (to me) fairly cut and dry, and a high risk, low chance of gain thing to do, so I probably wont continue, though as I said before, I might try time to time. I definitely wouldn't consider it a scam, but would consider it something that should be re-named/branded to be more accurate to what it is.

trigerhppy
October 18, 2011, 11:36 PM
I'd suggest you work on your reading comprehension and vocabulary John. I said that to know someone was innocent and not defend them would make a person scum, not that you were scum. Now you very well might be, but I never called you such.

Auction: "Common name for several types of sales where the price is neither set nor arrived at by negotiation, but is discovered through the process of competitive and open bidding"

You seem to think that the term "auction" should only be used when it is an open ascending price, aka "English auction", style like ebay or gunbroker. However, there are also Dutch auctions. And sealed bid auctions. And buyout auctions. And scratch auctions. And combinatorial auctions. And bidding fee auctions. That last one is also known as pay per bid auctions, or penny auctions. You see, the addition of a word(s) before AUCTION tells you the TYPE of AUCTION. But they are still all AUCTIONS. Thus, "penny auction" is the correct and socially accepted term.

Sam, if a particular auction is not conducting business honestly, then they deserve to be shut down or sanctioned. I have no problem with that, and have even reported some myself to state attorney generals when I knew they were using improper practices. My problem is people were saying this particular auction is a scam, when it is not. If someone asked about a specific local mechanic would you just immediately say that he commits fraud because it's commonly known that many mechanics are dishonest without knowing anything about this one in particular? It is the same with the penny auction industry: there are good ones and bad ones.

You seem to be rooting for these to be deemed illegal simply because YOU think they're bad, and that the people who WILLINGLY CHOOSE to use them must obviously not realize this or be able to make an intelligent decision on their own. Much like the temperance movement which gave us the failure of prohibition because of course people couldn't decide for themselves whether or not to drink because a specific group decided it was bad and they didn't like it. Or closer to home, all the people that think we shouldn't have certain guns because they think they're bad.

Sam Cade
October 19, 2011, 12:47 AM
This action alleges that Defendants operate illegal Internet gambling websites, by permitting persons to play games of chance for money and/or make a wager upon the result of a game or contest. *snip Every time contestants bid they are playing a game of chance hoping that time will run out before another player bids. Defendants make their money by charging the entry fee and retaining the money from each failed bid. Defendantsí auctions are illegal gambling because, among other things, they charge consideration for a chance to win a prize.:scrutiny:
http://pokerati.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/https___ecf.ilnd_.uscourts.gov_cgi-bin_show_temp.pl_file8365038-0-23001.pdf

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 19, 2011, 07:15 AM
Okay, so to clarify what I, along with what a lot of others are probably thinking, I don't use any mechanics because I know how to fix my own cars and don't believe in being fed a cock and bull story explaining why they have to charge hundreds of dollars for a brake problem.

But I'm not willingly going to hand my money to someone(s) who runs these "legal scams." Why is it that you are the only one really sticking up for them? Is it because you're "winning?"

JohnBT
October 19, 2011, 09:13 AM
You know they've lost the debate when they start trying to explain the definition of the word auction.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

And what's with the name calling? Are you running short of facts to support your side?

John

G4P
October 19, 2011, 09:25 AM
Hello everyone,
My name is Ed Nieves Jr. I'm a gun loving capitalist conservative that came up with this idea when my father had prostate cancer, and I turned this little dream into reality. I'm not a scammer or anything of the sort. See we are a small group of guys that are military and law enforcement. I don't really care what your saying about illegal cause it's not illegal if it's done right. Our goal was to create a site for military and law enforcement or gun lovers that can have the chance to win things that they normally couldn't afford. We don't force anyone to give us their money, and we don't steal it from anyone. Please like to try their luck and with some skill and sometimes with just luck they win. But all of you are right most people don't we just got over 19,000 members just a couple of hours ago. I've given everything I have to make this site work, and beyond. I know that it's not correct or right to respond to threads or anything. But you guys are gun guys, just like me, just like the guys I made this site for. I made a site of pretty much a bunch of guys that I could not only be friends with but I have almost everything in common with.
I'm not a quitter, I live my life based on honor, and I love my wife and daughter that I honor and live for. I made this site so I can give them a better life than what I've had. I thank God everyday for him giving me this idea that has helped us move forward. Now we aren't setting the world on fire with cash, and I'm not wearing some european clothing. I buy most of my clothing at SAMS, I'll wear shoes till my wife becomes miss sneaky sneaky (because I underestimate the sneaky sneaky) and throws them away. I'm half redneck and a quarter hillbilly and a quarter cowboy. This whole thing started when my dad got cancer and had to get operated on April of 2010. Like I said I have a wife and daughter and I just knew that I needed to make sure I could support them and try my best to give them a better life then what I was living. I bumped into this penny auction thing accidentally and saw the potential of financial benefits. I guess for me I don't understand that on a site like this that I'm sure we are all pretty much conservatives that coming up with a good idea to make money that has worked for me is a scam... Am I on TLR(The Low Road) Site for anti-capitalists that hate gun sites that can turn a profit??? Or am I with friends of both capitalism and guns??? For all of you that are calling my site that I've given everything I have in me to survive and work a "scam" What is the definition of the word "SCAM"? And what right do you have to judge another mans blood sweat and tears when you've never even tried it yourself to see if it even is as horrible as your portraying it to be??? Do you even understand that putting this stuff up trashing my site on this gun blog can not only damage my sites reputation but can actually finically damage us? And you don't even know anything about us or myself. Do you want to hurt me or even worse my wife and 2 year old daughter? Is your goal to try to make me fail so my family and I are on the streets??? We are a small family business, we aren't a huge corporation. Guns 4 Pennies is some Tech guys, a couple of wounded warriors, my wife and Me. We are all veterans and former law enforcement. Do you want to destroy us so we are unemployed and on the streets without even trying us or actually knowing any facts about us??? I"m an honest guy that thought this was a good idea, and I did this cause I thought other gun guys would love this. And I hoped to make a couple of bucks. Anyone that truly knows me would know I live based on honor not scamming people. This thread is so negative and it amazes me that even us gun guys can be worse than a damn sowing circle when we all get into a freaking frenzy. I'd like to say sorry right now on a couple of things before I stop. 1 I've pulled a 48 hour day as usual so if I've misspelled anything I'm sorry. And 2 I in no way mean to offend anyone here. I'd just like to share with you the other side of what you guys are smashing and trying to trash and destroy. Anybody here can call me if you want to talk to me toll free at (866)394-4847 If you want to ask me anything I'm here.. I'm not hiding from anyone or anything. If you want to friend me on Facebook look me up Edgardo Nieves Jr. my profile picture is a pic of me with former UN Ambassador John Bolton. I'm the one with the stupid look on my face like I just won the lottery:) Please understand I'm a gun guy just like you and I've worked so hard to make a fun site for gun guys. You don't have to join, and you sure as hell don't have to spend a dime on my site. But you don't have to bash something that either you don't understand or don't like for what ever reason you've come up with to not like my site or me. We didn't come here starting trouble and I don't want any from anyone. All I ask is that from one gun guy to all of you. Please respect me and my site, It's no scam your fighting against over 19,000 other members not us. All we do is post auctions and do security checks. I'd like to thank you for your time in advance. And if you've got anything negative to say then call me, you've all got my number to contact me directly thank you again for your time.

JohnBT
October 19, 2011, 09:35 AM
www.allpennyauctions.com/auctions/6e6b2ab28da7eb92/

I think I'm going to start a penny auction site.

The sold a $3,000 H&K and cleared a profit of $16593.09 according to this site. Good deal for the winner and the site owner(s). Especially the site owner(s).

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 19, 2011, 09:41 AM
I think you're getting such a bad wrap because of the non-refundable, yet expensive, bidding points. If I were running such a thing, I'd have a points package that would be cheaper, but you'd get more bang for the buck. If the said person lost? Refunded, but you still have the money for the points, would you not?

And 5? 10? free points? Come on, man, at least 50 or so... I don't agree with anything that you're doing, nor do I care to figure out why people can be stupid enough to keep sinking money into this, but that's MY humble opinion. I'd rather just buy guns the good old fashioned way.

dogtown tom
October 19, 2011, 10:43 AM
G4P Hello everyone..(Unabomber length diatribe deleted for brevity)... thank you again for your time.

I swear I've received better written emails from my friends in Nigeria (who I'm helping recover millions of $$$$ from a secret bank account that only will be released to me;))


If you think you are operating "with honor" I disagree. While I don't believe you are scamming people, I do believe you are taking advantage of the mental midgets of the gun world.....those who fall for your pitchline that you can win a $3000 gun for pennies. You don't do a very good job of informing your 19,000 members that you keep ALL THEIR MONEY, regardless of the success of their "bidding".

Honorable, ethical and legal auction sites don't operate the way your site does....they have full and easy to understand disclosure of their policies and operating procedures....your doesn't.

erin824
October 19, 2011, 10:49 AM
Ok, so....I normally don't get involved in these discussions. First of all, I don't really have the time. Secondly, to be honest...I dont really care to drum up more competition. I do admit that I have read this type of post in other forums and just passed on by. I guess I just felt the need to respond as I saw a fellow player/opponent getting what, in my opinion, is an unfair roasting by some of you.

So, here it goes: to the first post that asked if anyone has tried Guns4pennies, I have. I personally love the site. To let you guys know that I am not some nameless poster, I will ask those who are interested to go to Allpennyauctions.com. under the tab. "hall of fame" pull down "biggest winners by top value won. Under the further narrowing of field, pull down Guns4pennies. My name will be listed as number 1 or number 2? It changes based on who is playing at the moment, of course....Incidently, you will find trigerhappy on the list as well. Although I do not follow triggerhappy's play to know if he comes up on any other site, I am an avid penny auction player--not just forearms. You will see my name on several sites there. And, you will notice that there are many, many penny auction sites out there. To my knowledge, Guns4pennies and fishandbang are the only two sites to offer firearms, though. If you go on both sites, you will see the distinct differences in the site offerings. In my opinion, fishandbang cant hold a candle to guns4pennies-although, I have played on both sites...

With that said, I feel I am able to make a comment on penny auctions in general-not just guns4pennies. [/B]For those of you who are not penny auction players, I will start by saying...Yes, you pay to play. You pay for your bids up front. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I have heard people say things like, "well, if you lose..you dont get your bids back." Personally....I think that is a bit asinine to say. Of course you dont get your money back..lol....Some people will say its like gambling. I think, in that respect...there are some similarities. I dont know if you will like the penny auction model if you dont like to gamble. But, I ask: if you go to Vegas, play blackjack, and lose...Do you fault them or expect them to give you your money back? To the one who said, "well, in Vegas, they give me free drinks and free food and free rooms"....Just wondering...have you been to Vegas lately? They have been hurting with the economic downturn of the past couple of years. They are not giving away the perks like they used to...ok...off topic..lol...

As far as Guns4pennies goes...I will say what I know to be true...It is not a scam. You are not "getting something for nothing" as was suggested. There are risks involved. Those risks are not for everyone. You can do things to minimize your risks and output...Its called homework...If you are interested in checking it out, i will say...Go on the site daily. Watch the people who are playing. Specifically, watch those who are winning. There are players I will not go up against. There are certain players who I watch everytime they are on as I admire their technique....And, yes it is a game of strategy, brinkmanship and skill....The two biggest mistakes that new players make is thinking they are going to get something for nothing and not studying their competition.

For those of you who have made up your mind...I would never presume to change it...and I dont really care to...You are entitled to your opinion...and I am definitely not intent on drumming up more business or competition for the site. I only say that, before you potentially slander a business or business model, perhaps you should be a bit more educated on the topic you are sounding off on? No disrespect intended...just observation...

In my defense of guns4pennies...lol...I guess I will throw them one plug...The guy that owns the site is actually a nice guy. I guess I didnt realize he was a former military until I read triggerhappy's post...But, it makes sense. You can tell he is an avid gun fan or has some connections as he always seems to be able to offer up some hard to find, impossible to get item. To give those who are interested a point of reference, I usually end up paying anywhere fgrom 1/3 to 1/2 the price of an item. I have won with as few as 10 bids, and I have seen some people win with their 5 free bids...more than once. But dont assume or go into it thinking that will be the norm. And, as a side note: I was in an epic battle once with the player who is number 1 or 2 on the list...We were fighting it out for a Springfield Socom II. I finally gave in and lost...but...the owner found another one and had it sent to me anyway. He's obviously in to customer satisfaction...In my opinion, he's a standup guy.

For those of you who still say it's a scam...Ha...My impressive collection speaks otherwise! My favorite wins to date? My FN 5.7, my Scar...and my Scar Heavy! Wait...now that I think about it....Trig....you hand over my elcan scope you won playing against me...LOL....Its payment for coming to your defense! LOL.....

Peace all!

erin824
October 19, 2011, 11:05 AM
WOW! As I was busy writing my post...I see the extra posts...First, of all...Hi, Ed..LOL...I wouldnt have mentioned I wasnt intersted in drumming up more competition for your site if I knew you were even reading this forum...LOL...

But...Mostly...Damn, Tom...Get ahold of your edge! I am frankly embarrassed that we live in the same town! But...let me clarify here....You are making personal attacks on the owners character and "writing style" yet...at the end, you shamlessly plug your place for those looking for an FFL site in Plano/McKinney/Frisco? Who is the shameless ****** there? Perhaps there is a self serving nature involved? Hmmmm? I personally wouldnt transfer my wins to you--if you paid ME to do so!

JohnBT
October 19, 2011, 11:26 AM
"I swear I've received better written emails from my friends in Nigeria "

No kidding.

I like the small touches, the cancer, the military, the wife and kids, drove the Chevy to the levee, oh wait, wrong song and dance. ;)


"Am I on TLR(The Low Road) Site for anti-capitalists"

Now there's a good way to make friends. Why didn't I think of that?

G4P
October 19, 2011, 11:54 AM
Well, like I said I haven't slept so I am not at my best in writing. I'm going to leave it at this. To the gentleman that says I don't do my business in honor and made fun of my writing you have my number if you have the balls to talk to me after that. And the the gentleman that is joking about when my father had prostate cancer and said it was a nice touch I'd really love to have you call me too. I would honestly like to have a few words with both of you. In fact I'd like to meet you in person as well. So if you feel so strong about calling me names on this site and saying all that you say without even knowing me or truly understanding my business call me. This will be my last post, and I have reached out to you but I see you are determined to just try to hurt what I've worked so hard to create. The sad thing is I guess if you think your a conservative capitalist your sadly mistaken.
We are an auction site that does explain everything but I guess you never looked at the terms of service and just assumed that we didn't explain anything. And I guess you also thought that all of our members are stupid for being members and never read anything or asked any questions. Well, again you assumed and you assumed wrong. My members aren't the ones that I would call misguided or the ones that are misinformed. And I'm also letting everyone know I put my number out there telling anyone that wanted to talk bad about me to call me and nobody had the intestinal fortitude to call me. So I'm saying again. If you want to say anything ill about me or my business call me. Thank you again for your time everyone. And I'm sorry but I will defend what I have given everything for, and that was my dream that I worked so hard to make come true.

erin824
October 19, 2011, 11:55 AM
Hey John....really? You can think what you want about penny auctions, but a business owner comes onto your turf to explain himself...and you attack his family? To what end?

I came across this site this am as I was googling player info...I just signed up today. I am a member of general pennyauctionwatch forum.....I thought it would be great to join this site and chat with gun enthusiasts, in general......then I see people such as yourself posting with no motive or intent other than to attack people......I'm frankly disgusted. If this moral lacking type of commentary is the norm here, then I do not see the point of staying here...I thought this was all good natured information sharing and, most of all, respect....if you and Tom are the faces of gun owning masses, and this site...I want no part of it....

JohnBT
October 19, 2011, 12:18 PM
"and you attack his family"

Where? Are you nuts?

"I'm frankly disgusted"

And you can't read either.

John

JohnBT
October 19, 2011, 12:19 PM
Have all of the owners of G4P posted on this thread yet?

:uhoh:

Sam1911
October 19, 2011, 12:25 PM
Allllll right. Enough. The original question has been answered (YES, some people do use that site), and a lot more besides.

Seems we're all better informed about how these games work. We can each decide if that's a wise use of our money.

Do or do not, as you wish. No reason to get hot with each other over it.

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