Taper or roll crimp for .45acp?


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Nowhere Man
October 19, 2011, 09:51 AM
Does one work better than the other or doesn't it matter?



Dave

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EMC45
October 19, 2011, 09:59 AM
.45ACP headspaces on the casemouth, hence the need for a taper crimp. If you are using it in moonclips in a wheelgun I guess either would work.

HOWARD J
October 19, 2011, 10:10 AM
There are a lot of people on this forum that feel that a taper crimp die is not necessary as on a 45 acp the case only needs to be folded against the bullet (no roll crimp) but you use a roll crimp die to do it--therefore a taper crimp die is not necessary as it is relatively new.
That is what I was told by many people when I said I wanted a taper crimp die for a 45 acp.

cfullgraf
October 19, 2011, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=HOWARD J;7665320]--therefore a taper crimp die is not necessary as it is relatively new./QUOTE]

I guess it depends on your definition of new. I have been using taper crimp dies with 45 ACP and other auto pistol cartridges since 1980 when I started reloading.

Back then, all seater dies were machined with roll crimps. You either minimize belling so that no crimping is necessary. Or, you set the roll crimp to minimally crimp the case to remove the case mouth belling.

Both methods required lots of attention to detail so that the bullets were seated correctly and the cartridges chamber correctly. Most importantly, case length needs to be fairly consistent.

As said, the 45 ACP head spaces on the mouth, so a true roll crimp is not appropriate.

So, yes, you can load 45 ACP without a taper crimp.

In 1980, taper crimp dies were available but only as a special order from the manufacturers. In the eighties, Lee came out with a line of taper crimp dies that were readily available.

What is relatively new is the die manufacturers offering auto pistol seater dies with taper crimps instead of roll crimps. This, maybe started in the mid nineties or so.

I find taper crimping my 45 ACP makes loading it easier. I can increase the mouth belling a bit to make bullet seating easier, then remove the belling with the taper crimp. I taper crimp in a fourth step, a carry over from my loading in the eighties.

Super.45
October 19, 2011, 10:36 AM
When I first started reloading my original RCBS 3 die set featured a roll/seat die and this is the way I loaded all my .45 acp rounds for my Series 70 pistol and they worked fine. I put just a slight amount of roll on the case mouth.

When I switched to a progressive press the setup was a seperate seat and taper crip die which I think works better with match grade chambers that are tight.
I seat and crimp my rounds to .469 at the case mouth and have no problems in my Les Baers.

340PD
October 19, 2011, 10:56 AM
I taper crimp, in a separate step, every round I handload including light .357 loads. Never an issue with any of them.

mnhntr
October 19, 2011, 11:29 AM
Lee Factory Crimp Die

Walkalong
October 19, 2011, 12:28 PM
What is relatively new is the die manufacturers offering auto pistol seater dies with taper crimps instead of roll crimps. This, maybe started in the mid nineties or so.RCBS was doing it in the early 80's (81/82), if not sooner.

A light taper crimp is what a .45 ACP needs. I set my crimp die so all the shortest brass gets the bell completely removed, and the longer ones end up with maybe .001 crimp.

Some folks shooting guns with moon clips do roll crimp. That can be done because the case is headspacing on the moon clips.

cfullgraf
October 19, 2011, 02:58 PM
RCBS was doing it in the early 80's (81/82), if not sooner.



Interesting.

Must of happened shortly after I ordered my 1981 RCBS taper crimp die. This die is not threaded to accept a seater. As i remember, ordering a separate taper crimp die was the only taper crimp die option I had at the time. But, i've slept since then.

Also, I will admit that I did not shop for any auto pistol dies again until the nineties so i could easily miss such an introduction.

To bad RCBS does not date dies any more.

rcmodel
October 19, 2011, 03:21 PM
The first set .45 ACP dies I bought in 1962 included a steel sizer die, and taper crimp seater die. Or at least they closed up the case mouth bell however far you wanted it closed up.
They were Herters dies.

The Carbide RCBS dies that replaced the Herters has a taper crimp seater die.
They were bought in 1980.

I seriously didn't even remember when auto pistol seating dies didn't do a taper crimp.

rc

Red Cent
October 19, 2011, 03:59 PM
At the expense of costing RCModel another post, what MNHTR said. I use the die for the 9MM and the 45acp. I use a roll crimp for the revolver rounds.

The die does cover up inattention to loading (thought the word sloppy to severe :) )

EddieNFL
October 19, 2011, 09:04 PM
More than three decades ago, when I was a no rank, no money GI, I used a size die to apply a taper crimp.

HOWARD J
October 20, 2011, 02:11 PM
Just this year Hornady finally came out with a tapercrimp die supplied with
their auto pistol die set.
Up to now you had to purchase the tapercrimp die at extra cost for each
auto caliber.

Hondo 60
October 20, 2011, 04:50 PM
.45ACP headspaces on the casemouth, hence the need for a taper crimp. If you are using it in moonclips in a wheelgun I guess either would work.

+1 to what EMC45 said.

PO2Hammer
October 20, 2011, 06:07 PM
I use a taper crimp die adjusted to give no crimp, it just bumps the case mouths, eliminating any flare from seating or case mouth dings from the brass hitting the ground.

ArchAngelCD
October 21, 2011, 03:59 AM
A taper crimp for ammo meant for semi-autos, a roll crimp for revolver ammo.

Nowhere Man
October 21, 2011, 07:30 AM
Anybody have a sise-by-side picture?

Dave

Walkalong
October 21, 2011, 08:37 AM
I haven't roll crimped any .45 ACP, but here is a taper crimp.

It is .471 at the case mouth & .472 under the crimp mark where the bullet is seated..

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=139549&d=1301526046

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