Taurus - Never had one - Curious


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Red Cent
October 19, 2011, 03:50 PM
For years I have heard about the badly made Tauras firearms. Thinking back, I have only read about the "problem" guns. I mean I cannot remember reading about the hammer, trigger, springs, or any other part of the lockwork.

In the current American Rifleman, they have a review on the new Tauras 22lr/22 Mag revolver. Very good looking revolver.

Is anybody aware of a common problem with the handguns?

http://www.taurususa.com/2011newcatalog/

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Dnaltrop
October 19, 2011, 04:06 PM
So many threads you could search.

Taurii can be fantastic guns. A good friend has dissolved one half into rust with waistband carry, and his .357 is as smooth and accurate as my 1940's navy model 10 SW.

My old man is waiting on a 9 shot 22 tracker to be returned from it's 4th trip to the factory for repair, it refuses to hold it's timing, locks up in DA and skips rounds.

Lifetime warranty follows the gun itself, not the purchaser. Personally, there aren't many they make that I'd risk my money on, (the Circuit Judge .410 revolver rifle being the exception currently, love that ugly)

However MANY members here will give you glowing reviews and write off bad guns as a small percentage, or just bad owners. They can't all be insane.

My rating with them is 2 bad guns, 1 good gun through my hands. Try em out, you may get perfect ones and be a Taurus believer.... Or you may be a Taurus Agnostic like me... I may or may not believe they work.

Old Fuff
October 19, 2011, 06:20 PM
I have owned several Taurus revolvers, and currently own two (a model 85 lightweight .38 and a .44 Special model 445). None have given me any problems, but I have - with one exception) stayed with all-steel construction, and avoided Titanium in particular. When brand new they can stand arould 1,000 to 1,500 cycles of dry-firing to burnish the lockwork, and be sure to have something in the chambers such as snap-caps. When finished, disassemble, clean, and relubricate.

I will also mention that it is easier to keep a 5 or 6-shot cylinder in time, then one that has 7 to 9 or more chambers. There, the cylinder stop or bolt has to drop and come back up very quiclky.

They are clearly not the equal of older Smith & Wesson's or Colt's in terms of fit and finish, but they seem to be fully functional, and for a walk around gun, the price is attractive.

Onward Allusion
October 19, 2011, 06:48 PM
Inexpensive, QA spotty but if you get one that works from the get-go, it will be a keeper. Workmanship of late is crappy. I have a ton of Taurus revolvers and the new ones have sharp edges, thin finishes, and sticky/rough triggers. Overall, their revolvers are "ok" but I did read their model 94 has some issues. This is after doing a ton of research 'cause I wanted to get one for plinking.

From experience - The best semi in their line is the PT92. Early PT1911s had some major issues with firing mechanism and ambi-safety. Also, stay the heck away from the earlier 24/7 line.

bikemutt
October 19, 2011, 07:34 PM
I own 5 Tauri now, all wheel guns. One I bought new which had trouble right out of the box, Taurus fixed it no-charge, now it's my favorite range shooter. Another I bought new and it's been flawless. The other three I bought used or traded for and they work flawless. All are .357 magnums.

I would trust any of the five I own with my life because they have yet to do anything but accurately go bang every time I pulled the trigger. I suppose I could live (die?) to regret that statement but for now, they have been 100% reliable.

I agree with Onward regarding sharp edges. I have not experienced the sticky/rough triggers.

I also owns several Smiths and there is no question for me they are worth the premium paid over a comparable Taurus. I just have a congenital cheapskate side to my personality, so I own a few Tauri to satiate that need :)

MCgunner
October 19, 2011, 07:37 PM
I bought one new M85SSUL and two used (both M66s). They're fantastic shooters with good to great triggers. All are very accurate. The M85 is a daily carry and the 3" 66 is an occasional carry. the 4" 66 is a great range gun and outdoor carry.

plateshooter
October 19, 2011, 07:45 PM
I have an older model 85 in stainless, and a current Tracker in 44 mag. Both of them have been great shooters. I like them every bit as much as my S&W and Ruger revolvers. I would buy either of them again.

bikerdoc
October 19, 2011, 08:00 PM
Got 3

605 357

pt92 9mm

pt 1911

All perfectly function and get carried and shot regularly along with my Rugers, Smiths, and CZ's

NM Mountainman
October 19, 2011, 08:26 PM
I have only owned one Taurus: a stainless Tracker with 4" barrel in .44 mag. IMO, the Tracker design concept is excellent for its intended purpose as a lightweight trail gun. It is compact, lightweight, well balanced (slightly muzzle heavy). The factory ported barrel is effective at reducing recoil and muzzle jump.

My Tracker had a very good smooth trigger pull in both SA and DA. In fact, the trigger was as good as many out of the box S&W 629's, but the Tracker trigger pull in both SA & DA was about .5 lb heavier than the trigger pull of a typical 629. Overall accuracy at 25 yd and 50 yd was as good as most 629's with 4" barrels which I have tested.

Workmanship and external finish were OK with regard to functionality, but problems with fit and finish did detract from the appearance of the revolver. One problem which could have affected reliability and accuracy was the loose fit of the hammer which caused it to rub against the frame when firing. It took less than 30 minutes to stone and polish the frame to eliminate the problem. I had to stone off some sharp edges on the hammer spur and trigger. There were visible tool marks in the chambers and on the rear of the frame where the rear end of the cylinder pin engaged the frame. The extractor star was crudely machined and showed rough tool marks. The rear sight blade had a very loose fit and had a lot of play, but it didn't seem to detract from accuracy.

The amount of play in the cylinder with the trigger held to the rear after dry firing was more than I usually see in a new Ruger or a Smith. The cylinder gap was .009 which is within SAAMI specs, but, IMO, is excessive. The length of the cylinder is almost .1" shorter than the cylinder length I have measured on my 629 classic. That could limit the use of the heaviest bullets, and Taurus does not recommend bullet weights over 240 gr in Trackers. Overall, I would say that the fit of the cylinder was looser than with most out of the box Smiths and Rugers.

None of the observed problems with workmanship seemed to affect functioning, reliability, or accuracy. The ported barrel means that shot shells should not be used and also results in difficult cleaning when lead bullets are used. From the POV of practical functionality as a trail gun, I would say my Tracker (after about an hour of hand work with a polishing stone) was equal to most 629's I have examined and tested. It could be a good choice for a trail gun which is carried a lot but seldom fired with maximum loads.

The firing pin spring broke after a lot of dry firing (more than 500) without snap caps, but the Taurus manual recommends against dry firing with this revolver.

One big problem for me was that there are few aftermarket accessories available for the Tracker. A nice Hogue grip, 5 shot HK speed loaders, and holsters designed for S&W L frames represents a pretty complete list of available accessories. There is no way to mount a red dot mini reflex sight on the 4" barrel Tracker without some custom work.

I have also examined and fired several other Taurus revolvers and semi-autos which have belonged to friends. They seemed to function and shoot pretty well, but we did have occasional stove pipe malfunctions with a 9mm 24/7. Could have been the low cost practice ammo we were using.

Overall, my view of Taurus handguns (based on my limited experience) is that they are often based on a good design concept, and most of them seem to function and shoot well. Workmanship problems which degrade the cosmetic appearance and finish are fairly common, but workmanship problems do not usually have a negative effect on reliability or safety. I don't know much about their long term durability and reliability.

Even though my Tracker has been quite satisfactory, I probably won't buy another Taurus. I think they need to increase their quality control, fit, and finish and also improve customer service. Even if that means raising the price another $50 to $100, it might make them fully equal to many US made handguns.

I recommend that you carefully inspect before you buy, and don't forget the feeler gauge to measure the cylinder gap if you are looking for a revolver.

joed
October 19, 2011, 10:57 PM
I own a stainless Taurus model 445 and like it, and I said I'd never own one. My opinion is getting a good one is a crap shoot. I've handled some that were horrible and some that were good.

My advice is I wouldn't own one unless I could put my hands on it first.

MCgunner
October 19, 2011, 11:32 PM
My advice is I wouldn't own one unless I could put my hands on it first.

I can say that for Smith and Wesson and Ruger, too, and I own both.

DenaliPark
October 19, 2011, 11:56 PM
For years I have heard about the badly made Tauras firearms. Thinking back, I have only read about the "problem" guns. I mean I cannot remember reading about the hammer, trigger, springs, or any other part of the lockwork.

In the current American Rifleman, they have a review on the new Tauras 22lr/22 Mag revolver. Very good looking revolver.

Is anybody aware of a common problem with the handguns?

http://www.taurususa.com/2011newcatalog/
Yeah, they are produced by Taurus, and "uhh" their customer service is as good as their guns! If you buy one and it runs fine, then you go, if by chance it doesn't, then you don't!

saemetric
October 20, 2011, 12:04 AM
I have only one:the holy grail of Tauri-the blued 3" M431 in 44 spl. Perfect in all respects

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn147/saemetric/4311.jpg

RNB65
October 20, 2011, 12:10 AM
<deleted>

Owen Sparks
October 20, 2011, 12:46 AM
My brother has a .44 Special exacty like the one in post #13 except the barrel is an inch longer. It has held up fine for 15 years through a moderate amount of shooting.

VampyreDark
October 20, 2011, 01:07 AM
My brother in law has the tracker 357 and I have the Rossi 357 (made by Taurus). Honestly, his Taurus 357 is a nice gun, but I do not prefer it to my Rossi. No matter though, I think they are good guns. My cylinder has more play in it then his though, so maybe Taurus is a little better, but I dont know how because they are the same company.

Saemetric, that gun looks awesome dude!

weregunner
October 20, 2011, 05:29 AM
I own 17 Taurus revolvers. That's from .22lrf to .44 Special.

3 revolvers, model 65,66,and 85CH, have been in my battery for over 25 years. Closer to 30 years.

When I needed handguns to help protect my family and myself I was on a budget. The Taurus line filled the bill. I was able to buy 2 centerfire revolvers that were and are are reliable,accurate, and durable.

I took things very seriously and looked the revolvers over with a critical eye and a checklist for buying handguns. This was back in the middle 1980s.

I also looked at used guns and other brands and could not find anything in my price range. Taurus did fit the price range and performance. I've sold off two Taurus revolvers to get more Taurus revolvers. None of these has had any problems.

Only one gun ever was sent to Taurus in Miami, by that's the way guns are fixed is by going to Miami, and that was something of a problem I created.

The ball bearing in the adjustable sight slipped out and was lost. I had turned the sight one too many times when that happened. Taurus replace the sight on the 669 without charging a thing. Yet, it was my mistake.

I've carried and use Taurus models 65,66, 82,85CH,327,431,441,856,94,and 941. No problems there.

You wanted actual Taurus owners' experience. Here it is.

As for actual satsified owner experiences I can bring 18 typed pages full of links. Yes, there are a fewe exceptions.

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/4696-show-us-your-taurus-revolvers.html
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-complaints/1792-taurus-accomplishments.html
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/56575-cylinder-slide-shop-works-on-taurus.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/8307-taurus-vs-s-w.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/member-introduction/2340-richard-taurus-international.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/firing-line/56991-tired-taurus-haters.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/45625-taurus-revolver-disassembly-pictorial-guide.html

I do own a Taurus 990, but just in .22lrf. The 990 balances well and is accurate.

It would be better if people focus on the 990 as that is the model for which info has been asked for.

Those who have actual verifiable Taurus experience with their .22lrf revolver line are relevant. Those who do not are irrelevant.

Anecdotal that is second party or third party evidence is irrelevant.

If a gunshop feel Taurus is not a good brand then they have no business selling them. Selling supposedly sub-par guns means the seller's credibility is shot. Why would a shop sell sub-standard merchandise? They'd go out of business very quickly.

Most of the supposed problems would have been found prior to the person buying the gun.

Quote from another thread.

Inspecting a Revolver

All of this works with DA or SA wheelguns..."close the action" on most DAs means swing the cylinder in, on SA types, close the loading gate, on breakopens, close 'em. UNLOADED.

WARNING: most of these tests require violation of the "finger off trigger" rule. Therefore, be extremely careful about safe muzzle direction and making sure the gun is unloaded ahead of time, PERSONALLY, as you begin handling it.

Note: bring a small flashlight, something small and concentrated. A Photon or similar high-powered LED light is perfect. You also want feeler gauges if you're not used to eyeballing cylinder gaps; at a minimum, bring a .002", .004" and .006".

Note2: no dry firing is required or desired at any point.

Cylinder play.

1) With the gun UNLOADED (check for yourself!), close the action.

2) Thumb the hammer back, and while pulling the trigger, gently lower the hammer all the way down while keeping the trigger back - and KEEP holding the trigger once the hammer is down. (You've now put the gun in "full lockup" - keep it there for this and most other tests.)

3) With the trigger still back all the way, check for cylinder wiggle. Front/back is particularly undesirable; a bit of side to side is OK but it's a bad thing if you can wiggle it one way, let go, and then spin it the other way a fraction of an inch and it stays there too. At the very least, it should "want" to stop in just one place (later, we'll see if that place is any good). The ultimate is a "welded to the frame" feeling.

Cylinder gap

4) Still holding the trigger at full lockup, look sideways through the barrel/cylinder gap. If you can get a credit card in there, that ain't good...velocity drops rapidly as the gap increases. Too tight isn't good either, because burnt powder crud will "fill the gap" and start making the cylinder spin funky. My personal .38snubbie is set at .002, usually considered the minimum...after about 40 shots at the range, I have to give the front of the cylinder a quick wipe so it spins free again. I consider that a reasonable tradeoff for the increased velocity because in a real fight, I ain't gonna crank 40 rounds out of a 5-shot snub.

If you're eyeballing it, you'll have to hold it up sideways against an overhead light source.

SAFETY WARNING: This step in particular is where you MUST watch your muzzle direction. Look, part of what's happening here is that you're convincing the seller you know your stuff. It helps the haggling process. If you do anything unsafe, that impression comes completely unglued.

Timing

5) You really, REALLY want an unloaded gun for this one. This is where the light comes in. With the gun STILL held in full lockup, trigger back after lowering the hammer by thumb, you want to shine a light right into the area at the rear of the cylinder near the firing pin. You then look down the barrel. You're looking to make sure the cylinder bore lines up with the barrel. Check every cylinder - that means putting the gun in full lockup for each cylinder before lighting it up.

You're looking for the cylinder and barrel holes to line up perfectly, it's easy to eyeball if there's even a faint light source at the very rear of both bores. And with no rounds present, it's generally easy to get some light in past where the rims would be.

Bore

(We're finally done with that "full lockup" stuff, so rest your trigger finger.)

6) Swing the cylinder open, or with most SAs pull the cylinder. Use the small flashlight to scope the bore out. This part's easy - you want to avoid pitting, worn-out rifling, bulges of any sort. You want more light on the subject than just what creeps in from the rear of the cylinder on the timing check.

You also want to check each cylinder bore, in this case with the light coming in from the FRONT of each hole, you looking in from the back where the primers would be. You're looking for wear at the "restrictions" at the front of each cylinder bore. That's the "forcing cone" area and it can wear rapidly with some Magnum loads. (Special thanks to Salvo below for this bit!)

Trigger

7) To test a trigger without dry-firing it, use a plastic pen in front of the hammer to "catch" it with the off hand, especially if it's a "firing pin on the hammer" type. Or see if the seller has any snap-caps, that's the best solution. Flat-faced hammers as found in transfer-bar guns (Ruger, etc) can be caught with the off-hand without too much pain.

SA triggers (or of course a DA with the hammer cocked) should feel "like a glass rod breaking". A tiny amount of take-up slack is tolerable, and is common on anything with a transfer bar or hammerblock safety.

DA triggers are subjective. Some people like a dead-smooth feel from beginning of stroke to the end, with no "warning" that it's about to fire. Others (myself included) actually prefer a slight "hitch" right at the end, so we know when it's about to go. With that sort of trigger, you can actually "hold it" right at the "about to fire" point and do a short light stroke from there that rivals an SA shot for accuracy. Takes a lot of practice though. Either way, you don't want "grinding" through the length of the stroke, and the final stack-up at the end (if any) shouldn't be overly pronounced.

Detecting Bad Gunsmithing:

OK, so it's got a rock-solid cylinder, a .002" or .003" gap, and the trigger feels great. Odds are vastly in favor of it being tuned after leaving the factory.

So was the gunsmith any good?

First, cock it, then grab the hammer and "wiggle it around" a bit. Not too hard, don't bang on it, but give it a bit of up/down, left/right and circular action with finger off trigger and WATCH your muzzle direction.

You don't want that hammer slipping off an overly polished sear. You REALLY don't want that. It can be fixed by installing factory parts but that will take modest money (more for installation than hardware costs) and it'll be big time unsafe until you do.

The other thing that commonly goes wrong is somebody will trim the spring, especially coil springs. You can spot that if you pull the grip panels, see if the spring was trimmed with wire cutters. If they get too wild with it, you'll get ignition failures on harder primers. But the good news is, replacement factory or Wolf springs are cheap both to buy and have installed.

There's also the legal problems Ayoob frequently describes regarding light triggers. If that's a concern, you can either swap back to stock springs, or since you bought it used there's no way to prove you knew it was modified at all.

In perspective:

Timing (test #5) is very critical...if that's off, the gun may not even be safe to test-fire. And naturally, a crappy barrel means a relatively pricey fix.

Cylinder gap is particularly critical on short-barreled and/or marginal caliber guns. If you need every possible ounce of energy, a tight gap helps. Some factory gaps will run as high as .006"; Taurus considers .007" "still in spec" (sigh). You'll be hard-pressed to find any new pieces under .004" - probably because the makers realize some people don't clean 'em often (or very well) and might complain about the cylinder binding up if they sell 'em at .002".

The guns in a dealer's "used pile" are often of unknown origin, from estate sales or whatever. Dealers don't have time to check every piece, and often don't know their history. These tests, especially cylinder gap and play, can spot a gun that's been sent off for professional tuning...like my snubbie, the best $180 I ever spent.

As long as the gun is otherwise sound (no cracks, etc) a gunsmith can fix any of this. So these tests can help you pick a particularly good new specimen, or find a good used gun, or help haggle the price down on something that will need a bit of work.

It wil be recommended that you actually go to your local gun stores. Handle and shoot as many Taurus model 990,970,941 or 94s and make up your own mind if these rimfire handguns meet your needs.

My 94 and 990 meet my needs. Thes can be used for a trail gun,fun gun,understudy gun, or for defense in pinch.

Use the checklist provided and you cannot go wrong.

evan price
October 20, 2011, 06:34 AM
Taurus gets beat up on the forums because when one is bad, it gets talked about but when they are good nobody really talks a lot.

I currently own a Taurus 605 .357 Mag snub nose (like a J-frame). As far as problems with the gun- when I got it the sideplate screws kept getting loose and I almost lost one; but some blue lock-tite solved that once and for all. I had it at the range last week- it's a ccw gun carried IWB usually- and it seemed to me that the blueing was already mostly off the high spots. Taurus' blueing is an odd color, sort of a graphite silver blue color, and it looked neat when new, now it looks like it needs reblued. That said, it is a CCW gun that gets carried so I don't expect it to look like new forever.
As far as function, it has never missed a beat and I keep it loaded with Hornady XTP 140-gr JHPs.

With Taurus, like ANY manufacturer, there are a few bad ones that slip through. Their customer service has been slow in the past. I can't complain, I've never needed it.

oldfool
October 20, 2011, 07:50 AM
Red Cent,
if you pay closer attention to Taurus threads, I suspect you will find significant repetitive praise of some specific models, and repetitive complaints about other specific models. Somewhat vintage related as well, but not so much so as model specific. I suspect the more practiced gun hands (in general) are probably a little better at picking out the better models vs. the problematic ones, which just might have a little to do with why some models yield higher satisfaction to owners than others.

There are really only 3 mass producers of revolvers still in the game, S&W, Ruger, and Taurus. Of the three, Taurus is clearly the lowest price, highest volume maker, and it shows up in their overall product line (erratic) quality. It is a tad naive for people to expect top tier quality at lowest average price. Luck of the draw is always factor in any firearm, but the less you pay, the more relevant the 'luck' factor is, no big surprise. I personally think they push their production lines too hard for volume and rush their products to market too quickly, focusing their marketing efforts on "different" ('differentiating the product', 'telling the tale', 'high sku count' in sales lingo) vs. consistent quality in manufacturing and/or time spent in development.

The three I own are good ones (model 66 and model 96 revolvers, and model PT99 autoloader, all decades old vintage). Seems like I am not the only one who had good luck with those models. I likewise hear very few complaints and much praise of the basic 85 series revolvers and 92 autoloaders. There are others. There are also specific models which are notorious for repetitive issues. You cannot browse many Taurus threads (here or elsewhere) without noticing that. Claiming that criticism of such is just hearsay (much less heresy) is just plain silly.

Caveat emptor applies always, yes.
But the more you lower your price point sights, the warier you need be.
A man can only have just so much luck.

No one with common sense expects a Heritage Rough Rider to compete on quality and round count with a S&W K-22 or Colt Diamondback. Most of us don't even expect a Ruger Single Six to do that. Nobody expects a Hi-Point to compete on quality with a Glock or Les Bauer, either. You don't always get what you pay for, but you mostly will get "fair expectations" per pricing, if you pay close attention. Pay attention. Be double wary when shopping the low end of the price range. Be triple wary of "new & improved" because it mostly isn't. Sticking with well proven models (in any brand) is not a bad option.

Bargain hunting never was an easy adventure, but IMO, the preponderance of opinion to be found on most non-branded gun forums (this forum in particular) is pretty doggone reliable, even if somebody's woobie feelings occasionally get hurt. So I do disagree with EvanP on that point. If interested in a specific make/model/caliber.. ask about specific make/model/caliber, not just a "brand". You ask only about "brand", you are just going to be a magnet for love/hate threads, people who "will never own one" for all sorts of non-firearm reasons, and/or woobie syndrome.

But having said all that, there are very few current production Taurus models I myself would personally recommend to close friend or family. How it is.

PS
when it comes to expressing your opinions on gun forums "vote early and vote often"
I do
It's a dirty rotten thankless task, but somebody has to balance weregunner's opinion of the Taurus 94/941 :D

CajunBass
October 20, 2011, 09:42 AM
I've owned three Taurus revolvers. Two the them, a Model 66 and a Model 85, I will admit that I didn't shoot them a lot, because I didn't have a place to shoot back then. When I did they worked fine. The 66 especially was one of the best looking, best feeling guns I've ever owned. I traded it off when I got bit by the "small, CC, semi-auto" bug. I should have just taken two asprin, and gone to bed for a couple of days and kept the Taurus.

The third one was a Model 82...83...something like that. A Model 10 heavy barrel lookalike anyway. I got that one back in the 80's and shot the snot out of it. Mostly wadcutters, but that gun would shoot. The blue wasn't as nice as a S&W, and the grips looked like they had been carved out a 2X4 by some guy using a Swiss Army knife, but they worked.

I've seen several of those old Taurus 38's for sale recently. I've been tempted to buy one for old times sake and just because they're inexpensive.

Old Fuff
October 20, 2011, 09:58 AM
The Old Fuff will try to correct a misconception: :uhoh:

Holding the trigger all of the way back on a Smith & Wesson, Ruger or Taurus double-action/hand ejector revolver doesn’t have any particular affect on cylinder rotational movement or “final lock-up.” The only American made revolver where this is true is on Colt’s made between 1908 and 1969-1970, with the exception of the Python and some D-frame snubbies that continued in production.

Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus revolvers are deliberately made to have a very little rotational “wiggle” when the cylinder is locked so that a slightly misaligned chamber can align itself with the bore as a bullet passes through the chamber throat into the barrel.

The flashlight method of checking chamber/bore concentricity is flawed in that a light can cast a misleading shadow. Gunsmiths use a gauge called a “range rod” to determine concentricity, and on one of the aforementioned Colt’s this is a critical matter, while much less so with S&W, Ruger and Taurus products.

Perhaps a more common cause of cylinder/barrel misalignment is a sprung or bent crane (Colt) or yoke (S&W) caused by someone flipping the unlatched cylinder in and out with a flip-of-the-wrist, which is a Hollywood stunt that should always be avoided.

Occasionally someone will challenge my position, claiming that they’re particular S&W is indeed tighter when the trigger is held all of the way back. This can happen if the side of the hand is pressing against the side of the ratchet tooth, but the condition, if it happens, is not intentional and it’s seldom the case on all chambers. It is in fact detrimental if the chamber and bore are not concentric, and the cylinder can’t move enough so that they can be.

Guillermo
October 20, 2011, 10:15 AM
Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus revolvers are deliberately made to have a very little rotational “wiggle” when the cylinder is locked

This is absolutely critical information...especially for the Colt buyer.

If your Colt is as loose as a even a tight Smith...DO NOT SHOOT IT.

The damage you do will NOT be cheap.

bikemutt
October 20, 2011, 10:35 AM
Another thing to keep in mind related to Taurus' history of poor quality control -- If you get a bad one that needs factory repair, it has to be shipped to the factor in Brazil. Factory repairs with Taurus can take a long time.
I'm sure a company the size of Taurus, doing the volume they do, has frequent courier service between service and manufacturing. And no manufacturer is immune from delays, I had reason to send a gun back to CZ for minor repair and was told the were backed up "weeks". I ordered the part and fixed it myself.

bikemutt
October 20, 2011, 10:53 AM
This is absolutely critical information...especially for the Colt buyer.

If your Colt is as loose as a even a tight Smith...DO NOT SHOOT IT.

The damage you do will NOT be cheap.
So, I'm seriously considering a used Colt Anaconda I found at a rural gun store. The store says < 300 rounds through it. It does NOT lockup tight, it's more like my Smiths, Rugers or Tauri. I don't consider it loose per se, but it sure isn't like my Detective Special which is stupid-tight.

Should I pass on this one? He's asking about 20% less than what I've been accustomed to seeing.

MedWheeler
October 20, 2011, 11:08 AM
I had a M94 from 1990-1996. It was purchased to use as a trainer, and then a bedside gun, for my then-wife. I also had (still have) a M66 purchased in 1987, as my first handgun. The M94 was indeed a fine shooter, and never gave me any issues. Over that period, I probably only put maybe 500 rounds through it, though. I let her take it with her when we divorced in 1996.
The only issue I have had with the M66 is the tendency of the ejector rod to thread loose after many, many trigger/hammer cycles. When it comes loose, it locks the cylinder, and I had to press it inward slightly with a small tool to release it. A little Loc-Tite fixed the issue.

Guillermo
October 20, 2011, 11:30 AM
Bikemutt,

after checking the gun twice to make sure it is unloaded, pull the trigger double action letting the hammer down gently. But do not release the trigger... hold the trigger back.

At that point there should be no rotational movement of the cylinder. Zero. Nada. None.

Until that point a little rotation is normal.

Good luck on that big boomer.

Red Cent
October 20, 2011, 11:54 AM
The inquiry sprang from being curious, not from an intention to buy. True or not, I have been influenced by the remarks made over the last forty years or so.
Back in the 60s and 70s, the attempt of Tauras to copy the Smith was looked upon as "cheap made imitations" and were prone to bad quality control. As I said, I have never owned one. All second hand information.
A comparison, I suppose, would the Dan Wesson. I own one. I use it in competition but it will never equal a K or L frame Smith. I have those also.

It is interesting to hear first hand remarks from the old timers and the young'uns.

MCgunner
October 20, 2011, 12:31 PM
Taurus gets beat up on the forums because when one is bad, it gets talked about but when they are good nobody really talks a lot.

In my experience, when I've bought a new or used Taurus and posted on how well it shot or how much I was pleased with it, all I got was a bunch of a**wipes telling me what a POS it is, as if they had shot it and it fell apart on 'em or something, internet know-it-alls probably never picked one up in the first place telling me my gun is crap.

So, I don't bother anymore except on taurusarmed.net. :rolleyes: The boards are what they are.

Triggernosis
October 20, 2011, 01:10 PM
Taurus makes good guns, as does Rossi. They're just not typically finished as well as S&W's.

Old Fuff
October 20, 2011, 01:21 PM
So, I'm seriously considering a used Colt Anaconda I found at a rural gun store. The store says < 300 rounds through it. It does NOT lockup tight, it's more like my Smiths, Rugers or Tauri. I don't consider it loose per se, but it sure isn't like my Detective Special which is stupid-tight.

Should I pass on this one? He's asking about 20% less than what I've been accustomed to seeing.

No you shouldn't - unless of course I can get it. :evil:

Eventually the management at Colt's woke up and saw the light. Starting in 1969-70 they begain to introduce an entirely new line of revolvers that wouldn't require the precise handwork that they're older models that dated back to 1908 did. These - and the very fine Anaconda is one - are like Smith & Wesson's, Ruger's and Taurus guns in that the cylinder should have a little rotational wiggle when the cylinder is locked so that the chamber can self-align with the bore.

Your Detective Special should be "stupid(??) tight," but if you happen to know a gunsmith that has a range rod for .38 Special you might have him check to see if the chambers all line up with the bore. No disassembly is necessary, and it should take less then 5 minutes.

Also, if there are questions in your mind you can return it to Colt for a full inspection and tune-up. They charge, but it's worth it for the peace-of-mind.

Onward Allusion
October 20, 2011, 01:27 PM
bikemutt
So, I'm seriously considering a used Colt Anaconda I found at a rural gun store. The store says < 300 rounds through it. It does NOT lockup tight, it's more like my Smiths, Rugers or Tauri. I don't consider it loose per se, but it sure isn't like my Detective Special which is stupid-tight.

Should I pass on this one? He's asking about 20% less than what I've been accustomed to seeing.

<deleted>

Ahhhhhh - I just read OF's follow-up.... This is good to know......

Onward Allusion
October 20, 2011, 01:31 PM
evan price
Taurus gets beat up on the forums because when one is bad, it gets talked about but when they are good nobody really talks a lot.

But isn't this the way it works for most products? If they work as intended you hardly hear anything unless they perform in a stellar manner. If they don't then the bad news travels 10x over.

Old Fuff
October 20, 2011, 01:56 PM
Ahhhhhh - I just read OF's follow-up.... This is good to know......

Now wait a minute!! I get to steal it first... :evil: :D

This is not a perfect solution, but it generally works.

If you are looking at a Colt double-action/hand ejector revolver.

Go to www.proofhouse.com

Look for the name of whatever revolver you are interested in, and you will find a list of serial numbers vs. year manufactured.

If the starting year is 1908 but not later then 1970 it is probably one of the older style guns. If it is 1970 or later it is likely one of the newer models.

In doubt? You can always ask on The High Road. ;)

Oh darn!! I just found out the Anaconda isn't listed. The answer should be 1990

againstthagrane
October 20, 2011, 02:31 PM
i had a pt1911. that thing was a straight up piece of crap. i bought it before i knew better. stovepipes, rounds not feeding, barrel nut was hard as hell to rotate. finish would scratch if you drop a feather on it. save up an extra $150 and get a nice pistol. i have no experience with any of their othe models, but the one i got was a piece...

MCgunner
October 20, 2011, 02:47 PM
i had a pt1911. that thing was a straight up piece of crap. i bought it before i knew better. stovepipes, rounds not feeding, barrel nut was hard as hell to rotate. finish would scratch if you drop a feather on it. save up an extra $150 and get a nice pistol. i have no experience with any of their othe models, but the one i got was a piece...

No, it was a 1911, ergo piece of crap. I got rid of two, a AO and an AMT, and never tried it again. Actually, one got stolen and the insurance bought me a Ruger P90. I was and am happy, now.

sixgunner455
October 20, 2011, 03:02 PM
I have handled a number of Taurus firearms.

I have a friend who has had a 605 stainless for five years or so. He's not a high-volume shooter, but he's had no issues. It is surprisingly controllable with Magnum ammo, but he and his wife mostly shoot it with .38 Specials.

My father bought a model 85 stainless this summer. We shot the snot out of it while he was visiting. No issues.

edit to add: Oh, I just remembered a Taurus 9mm I shot a couple of boxes through when I was thinking about buying it. The Beretta copy. It was a good gun. Sights weren't quite on, but it was accurate enough and chewed through everything I fed it without fuss.

Another friend has one of the tip-up barrel .22 pistols. It jams a lot.

Byrd666
October 20, 2011, 03:23 PM
I own a Taurus 66B4- Model 66 blued 4" barrel 7" round .357mag - and love it. No problems with any ammo of any sort, from cheapest factory to cheapest reloads. Though it really likes Remington ammo of any sort for some reason. Now that the action has been broken in, the trigger is smooth in DA or SA mode. Its as accurate as my Smith and fairly comfortable in a hip holster when I'm out in the woods or out in the fields.

The semi autos on the other hand are hit or miss. Of the few guys and girls I know that own one, most have had nothing but trouble with them. The others just swear by them.

dallascj
October 20, 2011, 04:18 PM
The Old Fuff will try to correct a misconception:

Holding the trigger all of the way back on a Smith & Wesson, Ruger or Taurus double-action/hand ejector revolver doesn’t have any particular affect on cylinder rotational movement or “final lock-up.” The only American made revolver where this is true is on Colt’s made between 1908 and 1969-1970, with the exception of the Python and some D-frame snubbies that continued in production.

Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus revolvers are deliberately made to have a very little rotational “wiggle” when the cylinder is locked so that a slightly misaligned chamber can align itself with the bore as a bullet passes through the chamber throat into the barrel.

The flashlight method of checking chamber/bore concentricity is flawed in that a light can cast a misleading shadow. Gunsmiths use a gauge called a “range rod” to determine concentricity, and on one of the aforementioned Colt’s this is a critical matter, while much less so with S&W, Ruger and Taurus products.

Perhaps a more common cause of cylinder/barrel misalignment is a sprung or bent crane (Colt) or yoke (S&W) caused by someone flipping the unlatched cylinder in and out with a flip-of-the-wrist, which is a Hollywood stunt that should always be avoided.

Occasionally someone will challenge my position, claiming that they’re particular S&W is indeed tighter when the trigger is held all of the way back. This can happen if the side of the hand is pressing against the side of the ratchet tooth, but the condition, if it happens, is not intentional and it’s seldom the case on all chambers. It is in fact detrimental of the chamber and bore are not concentric, and the cylinder can’t move enough so that they can be.
Old Fuff,
Thank you for all of that info. I have never heard that about cylinder lockup or concentricity before. I have experienced the shadowing when trying to look with a flashlight though.

dallascj
October 20, 2011, 04:35 PM
Another thing to keep in mind related to Taurus' history of poor quality control -- If you get a bad one that needs factory repair, it has to be shipped to the factor in Brazil. Factory repairs with Taurus can take a long time.
RNB,
Get your facts straight before spewing this kind of dis-information. All Taurus N. American repairs are handled by their repair center in Miami, FLORIDA!

RNB65
October 20, 2011, 09:30 PM
RNB,
Get your facts straight before spewing this kind of dis-information. All Taurus N. American repairs are handled by their repair center in Miami, FLORIDA!

Is this a fairly recent change? I have a buddy who has had to send in 2 Taurus wheelguns for warranty repair. Both time, he was told that it had to go back to the factory in Brazil for the repair and each one took a good 3 months before he got the gun back.

duck911
October 20, 2011, 09:52 PM
I own a 685 (8 shot ported .357). It is the smoothest shooting .357 I have ever shot and it has a GREAT trigger. I have put enough rounds downrange with the firearm that at this point I would trust my life to it.

--Duck911

bikemutt
October 20, 2011, 10:06 PM
I own a 685 (8 shot ported .357). It is the smoothest shooting .357 I have ever shot and it has a GREAT trigger. I have put enough rounds downrange with the firearm that at this point I would trust my life to it.

--Duck911
^^^ what said, X2.

weregunner
October 21, 2011, 07:55 AM
Just as an aside. I do own two Taurus PT-22s.
Like a lot of other small guns and this is true for all .22lrf firearms, there these are picky about the ammunition used.

My two,old and very new, both like CCI Mini-mags and Remington Golden Bullets. No problems.

Firing these takes some practice with the trigger, the proper solid grip,and dedication to it. So do other mini semi-autos.

Proper techniques go along way to having the gun be reliable.

Do not fire hyper velocity rounds through the PT-22. The same goes for the Beretta version, the 21A.

I also second McGunner's points.

weregunner
October 21, 2011, 08:19 AM
Red Cent. Go ahead and read the links given above. You might be surprised by what you see. Informed as well.

Also be advised that many of us who own Taurus own many other brands,makes, and models of firearms.

For example, in handguns I own Beretta,Ruger, Springfield, and SIG products.

The choice to buy a Taurus was with a critical eye and inspection of the firearms in question. It was to get the most bang for the buck and what the firearms meant to me and it's use. I would not settle for anything that to protect my life and the lives of others on a whim or something flawed. if these guns did not were not durable and reliable we owners would not buy those. For the price the Taurus line fits the bill for most of us.

Yes, there are some exceptions. All the gun makers have their slip ups. I can bring many pages of links from here,TFL, and from another gun forum if needed.

The Raging Taurus and Tracker line were built to last and for hard use. This they do.

Do some research here.

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/

You can peruse the links,do research, and ask the actual owners about the various models if you wish. Yes, this takes time, but anything that is worthwhile does.

There used to be a Taurus Talk Forum, but MSN saw fit to end their forum for obscure reasons.

Some times it takes a specific forum for a specific type or brand of gun to be a source. I do that for Ruger (two forums for that), when I wanted a Springfield XD the I went to the XD Talk Forum, when I wanted a Beretta I went to the Beretta forum. Same went for the SIGs I own. Yes, I used this forum as well, but I researched the firearms to a high degree before the purchase. I even read up on them in publications. That includes police and tactical journals. Annual or otherwise.

Taurus has been recommended in the Gun Digest Books for police use where they have had to buy their own arms. These were authored by Mas Ayoob and Chuck Karwan over the years and decades.

Taurus has been documented for saving police and civilian lives in these books as well. That includes Marshall and Sanow books as well.

These picky police and civilians would not have used these handguns if they were flawed.

So pick what you will as far as a firearm goes.

What's being offered is facts. Not "conventional wisdom" that is not wise.

Guillermo
October 21, 2011, 11:17 AM
Starting in 1969-70 they begain to introduce an entirely new line of revolvers that wouldn't require the precise handwork that they're older models that dated back to 1908 did

whoa...hold your horses there bucky (specifically your Colts).

was not the Anaconda lockwork just a larger, beefier version of the Trooper IV?

Dogguy
October 21, 2011, 11:27 AM
Taurus makes a lot of different models and they sell them fairly cheap compared to the competition. They are very popular as bargain guns for lots of people. Dealers sell a lot of them and dealers like them a lot for that reason.

What you don't see is a lot of police officers carrying Taurus handguns. You don't see a lot of military agencies using Taurus handguns. You don't see a lot of competitive shooters using Taurus handguns. Not that you won't find "some" cops, military or competition shooters using them, but you won't see "lots" of them.

Gun writers praise in print every firearm made. You are unlikely to see Massad Ayoob or Chuck Karwan actually carry a Taurus handgun.

I have a friend who has two Taurus handguns. One works well and has been 100% reliable for him. I like it enough that I would like to have one like it. The other Taurus he owns is a disaster. There are so many things wrong with that particular gun I would trust a slingshot over it for self defense. That seems to be the case with Taurus--one gun off the production line is perfect and the next one off is scrap metal. It leaves me with the opinion that buying a Taurus handgun is a crapshoot. I personally prefer better odds.

Old Fuff
October 21, 2011, 12:36 PM
was not the Anaconda lockwork just a larger, beefier version of the Trooper IV?

Yup. On that point you are correct. But the Trooper Mk. V didn't originate in 1908, and therefore didn't have the "bank-vault-door" lockup.

Trooper Mk. V = 1982 to 1986

RatherNotSay
October 21, 2011, 12:41 PM
Had a 24/7 oss and will never buy another tuarus again. Their warranty is cool and all but their motto is "well we don't build it right so keep sending it in till we fix it." Do a search on how many police/military use ANY of their stuff. I would trust my life with a baseball bat before I picked up a taurus.

weregunner
October 21, 2011, 02:59 PM
What has a 24/7 got to do with this? This thread is about revolvers. Not pistols and 1 case does not make a whole brand,make, or model bad.

20 typed pages of 24/7 owners links who find those just fine can be brought forth if needed. And you have what?

In the links I have provided is the case that S&W has had numerous recalls and problems with revolvers, pistols, and rifles.

With what is in the link it could ascertained that all S&W is junk and I will never by one because of that. Yet anyone foolish to buy into that would be an idiot. We all know that S&W normally makes good stuff.

It's in the OP's best interests to go and examine for himself and actually see and make the judgment for himself.

weregunner
October 21, 2011, 03:26 PM
Just for the record Taurus just broke into the military and police market here in the last year or so. They have a tactical division in the U.S.A..

Also as far as police go:
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/international/23817-taurus-revolvers-used-by-south-american-police-military-.html

As far as the military goes:
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/24-7-series/52731-why-u-s-armed-forces-did-n-t-buy-taurus-tactical.html

Quote from another thread:

.

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07-27-2011 01:57 AM#14




jwc007




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PT92's and all variants are on the approved lists of many USA Police Agencies that do not issue a standard handgun. I know of two Police Officers that currently carry a PT92 as their primary duty handgun. Also, the PT92 is standard issue for some Philippine Military and Police agencies.


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07-27-2011 11:00 AM#15




redjeep




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A few years ago I was in an army surplus store in Fort Wayne , Indiana. In the back they had tons of manuals on guns that our armed forces used and there must have been 500 or more manuals on the Taurus 92 model. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. Our military must have considered the Taurus around the time they were looking at the Berretta and maybe someone jumped the gun ( no pun intended, well maybe) on printing field manuals for them.














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07-27-2011 03:47 PM#16




JR




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Large Military and Police Orders usually REQUIRE that the guns be manufactured in the country using them. Note that Beretta built in Accokeek, Md. after they received the bid. Glock is assembled in Smyrna, Ga. Sig located a plant in New England before they became American owned. FN is also in the same boat. They received a bid award for M4 barrels, and are now in the Carolinas.

Taurus has, so far, successfully fought off building the majority of it's guns outside of Brazil, and military and police orders suffer because of that. Many Brazilian LEOs carry Taurus weapons. Same with several sections of the Brazilian military. There have been small orders to police in the Middle East, Africa, and other South American countries.

End of quote.

So there are actual reasons why Taurus is not in the police and military markets until know. That is in large numbers.
It's also apparent from the LEOs who've been there and done that that Taurus are in American police holsters and being used as backup guns. Maybe not like some brands, but this puts things into perspective.

People seem to be speaking out of ignorance or on things they know little or nothing about.

I am using these examples to show that Taurus products of various types do make it into military or police use more than some seem to know about.

Revolvers have been on the down swing as far as police and military use for years now. That for the U.S.A.. I've seen a lot of revolvers in small city or town police holsters. So trying to tie Taurus to the police or military now is not an issue as pistols are now "cutting edge".

Let's stay on topic. No offense to mods here.

If you have something on Taurus revolvers,fine. That's the topic the OP was shooting for. That being the case then it would help everybody.

As stated before it would be a good thing if the OP were to get and get some hands on experience with the all the various models and see for himself. If he liks them fine. If not then that is his call for himself.

RatherNotSay
October 21, 2011, 05:44 PM
One case? google is filled with taurus rants. Granted every gun has it's bad apples every now and then but taurus is just ridiculous. I noticed you have taurusarmed in your sig....I would imagine you would know better. If it was one common problem I would understand but there is everything from stuck slides to mag problems. That is most models.

Google "taurus cylinder lock up" and see what comes up. How do you get a revolver wrong

South American police reference....pfft...

MCgunner
October 21, 2011, 10:44 PM
http://www.chuckhawks.com/smith-wesson_dark.htm

bikemutt
October 21, 2011, 11:15 PM
No you shouldn't - unless of course I can get it. :evil:

Eventually the management at Colt's woke up and saw the light. Starting in 1969-70 they begain to introduce an entirely new line of revolvers that wouldn't require the precise handwork that they're older models that dated back to 1908 did. These - and the very fine Anaconda is one - are like Smith & Wesson's, Ruger's and Taurus guns in that the cylinder should have a little rotational wiggle when the cylinder is locked so that the chamber can self-align with the bore.

Your Detective Special should be "stupid(??) tight," but if you happen to know a gunsmith that has a range rod for .38 Special you might have him check to see if the chambers all line up with the bore. No disassembly is necessary, and it should take less then 5 minutes.

Also, if there are questions in your mind you can return it to Colt for a full inspection and tune-up. They charge, but it's worth it for the peace-of-mind.

The deal has been sealed. Didn't want to trade what I traded but sometimes ya' gotta just go for it.

Ridgerunner665
October 22, 2011, 12:04 AM
I have only owned a very few revolvers, an SP 101, a Blackhawk, a couple of 22's, and I just recently bought a Rossi (made by Taurus) 357. Its a 4" and its a pretty darn decent gun I believe...smooth in the action, accurate, decent trigger.

I have owned other Taurus guns that were complete crap...3 of them (semi autos), but that wheelgun is a keeper.

oldfool
October 22, 2011, 12:33 AM
Chuck Hawks is so old, he makes me feel almost young
still lost in the brand-woobie wars between S&W and Colt
(some just never did get over it)
so what ?

suggestion -
do a poll on Taurus as 'brand', non-model specific
do a poll on S&W as a 'brand', non-model specific
do a poll on Ruger as a 'brand', non-model specific
do a poll on Colt as a 'brand', non-model specific
(or Glock, Springfield, Browning, Kimber, Sig, Beretta, whatever)
Throw out as no-count every poster who fails to name one they themselves have handled, shot, and/or owned.

Let us know how many of those polls yield the result:
(as seen here on THR just recently)
one out of five "great"
50% "ok"
one out of five "bad"
(do ignore the leftover percentage, they probably just be internet pretenders)
20% failure rate, re: customer/owner satisfaction ???

wow

But if you don't like the poll results, just do it again, but this time do it only on a same-one-branded fan forum. Anticipate a more favorable result.
But if asking on a non-branded forum, try not to ask people (as an exclusive demographic) who own or work in gun shops about their experiences with return/complaint rates on 'brand' only criteria.
If that still doesn't satisfy, you could ask Jeff Quinn if he likes that (brand X, Y, or Z) new gun he just reviewed, and/or check out 'gunzine' ads. Complaints = zero.

I own only three Taurus handguns, all owned many years, all great
(figure the odds on that.. sure beats one in five, don't it)
Only two current NIB production revolvers are on my personal wish list
one a Taurus
one a S&W
go figure the odds on that

Could be the difference between me and some folks, is that I just really don't believe that 1 out of 5 THR members are idiots, just because at least one in five doesn't like what I like.
(and they don't)

That along with the fact I don't suggest to people that, should they have rotten luck with some one brand, they just really need to buy another 4, to get happy... or that they are just too dumb to inspect a gun held in hand before buying, because if they had enough sense to keep on trying, trying, they might hit that one in five great without hitting the "you lose" one in five a second time.

PS
I know that's harsh, but trust me, you don't know harsh until you ask me about that brand new AMC station wagon I bought for the wife from Mockingbird AMC in Dallas. BEST warranty of any brand, advertised and guaranteed. It was painted "lemon yellow"; figure the odds on that. (No, I never bought another AMC).

thefamcnaj
October 22, 2011, 01:31 AM
I can't speak to all tauruses seeing as how they have 1000 different models, but the ones i"ve tried have been waste of money. Very problem mattic semi's for me personally. I gave up on the company a long time ago and won't give them another shot.

againstthagrane
October 22, 2011, 05:26 AM
"No, it was a 1911, ergo piece of crap. I got rid of two, a AO and an AMT, and never tried it again. Actually, one got stolen and the insurance bought me a Ruger P90. I was and am happy, now."

So much fail in this comment I don't even know where to begin.

jad0110
October 22, 2011, 09:18 AM
As a revolver nut and collector, I go to lots of pawn and gun shops, gun shows, etc looking at mostly used wheel guns, predominantly S&Ws, Rugers and Tauri. Mainly, I just enjoy the "thrill of the hunt". Often, I don't buy anything. When I am looking to make a purchase, and when end up passing on a revolver, I've noted the reasons for passing vary by brand. Here are my observations on why I end up passing on each of these 3 brands, worth exactly what you paid for it :p :

- S&W: Interestingly, the vast majority of S&Ws I handle pass the revolver checkout with flying colors. Normally I pass because the asking price is way too high for my local market. I'm talking S&W Model 10-6s for $700 and Model 27s for $900 and over. 4" Model 19s for $600 aren't an uncommon sight either. Every now and then one comes along for the right price, and I usually snatch it up.

- Ruger: The most common reason I end up passing on Rugers is they often show obvious signs of abuse, specifically that they've fired massive quantities of full power +++ H Bomb loads. I'm talking totally trashed. I picked up a Speed Six once that had over .01" of end play :eek: (I just stopped measuring at .01", it was actually more than that). Many I handle have near that amount. Also, forcing cones are often heavily eroded with a LOT of flame cutting of the top strap.

So it would seem that most take the old saying that "Rugers are built like tanks" as not only the gospel, but as a challenge. :D

- Taurus: Like S&W, I pass on many because of price. In my region, Tauri's are often as or nearly as expensive as S&Ws. Particularly the Model 66, which is typically about $450 - $500 where I live (used), same as a S&W 66. But also, numerous examples are out of spec enough in one manner or another I end up passing. Yes, they have a lifetime warranty, but I have dealt with Tauri's customer's disservice department once and I don't care to go there again. Loose rear sights, cylinder gap too tight or too loose, too much end shake, crappy trigger, etc.

I've owned 3 Taurus revolvers. As for great vs junk, I am 2:1. And this is basically what I have observed myself: they are either excellent firearms, or excellent door stops :p .

Everyone makes lemons, though Taurus does appear to make a higher percentage of lemons than say Ruger or S&W, at least in my experience and observations. Particularly with certain models (the PT-22 and Model 94 come immediately to mind). As always, check before you buy. A good one will give you years of enjoyment, without regard to the brand.

However, given my observations above, I will not buy a Ruger or Taurus sight unseen. I have bought a Smith or 3 through gunbroker though with great success.

As for Taurus, I picked up this 3" .44 Spl Model 431 about a year ago for $268. It is an absolute gem in every respect. And the 6" model 66 I sold 5 years ago? I regret selling it every day. The model 94 OTH? Good riddance.


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Taurus%20Model%20431/DSC02292.jpg

Old Fuff
October 22, 2011, 10:18 AM
The deal has been sealed. Didn't want to trade what I traded but sometimes ya' gotta just go for it.

Oh Darn!!!! It's news like this that may force me to become honest... :banghead:

I was hoping some foolish widder lady would pick it up and I could flim-flam.... :uhoh:

Ya' wouldn't consider a straight up trade for a nickel plated Iver Johnson .32 top-break with genuine pearl handles would you? :D

Guillermo
October 22, 2011, 10:53 AM
ya' wouldn't consider a straight up trade for a nickel plated iver johnson .32 top-break with genuine pearl handles would you?

hey!!!

You offered that to me for a diamondback!!!

Old Fuff
October 22, 2011, 10:58 AM
You offered that to me for a diamondback!!!

Yes, but you foolishly didn't take my generous offer - so eat your heart out... :scrutiny: :D

Guillermo
October 22, 2011, 11:46 AM
so eat your heart out

well I will just have to console myself with my "new" 5" pre-model 10.

:neener:

sixgunner455
October 22, 2011, 12:02 PM
jad, I have to confess that I used to drool over a Taurus 431 that I could never afford when I was in college. I have a S&W 13-3 that (mostly) satisfies my "need" for a 3" fixed-sight revolver that size, but, nice as it is (oh, and it is nice), it still doesn't have those really fat chambers that 431 has ...

Old Fuff
October 22, 2011, 12:04 PM
well I will just have to console myself with my "new" 5" pre-model 10.

Well go ahead...

Never would I consider letting you have my ah.... well.... somewhat perfect Iver Johnson for an ordinary, common Smith & Wesson!

Besides my revolver has genuine mother-of-pearl stocks that are only missing a few small chips, and your S&W probably has less then outstanding wood.

jfurlong
October 22, 2011, 11:50 PM
I know this is a revolver forum, but my only experience owning a Taurus was a .380 auto. I owned the .380 for three years, never had a mechanical problem or even a jam. the reason that I got rid of it was that it was so spectactularly innaccurate. At 15 yards the pattern covered about 5 feet. Not good for shooting at anything more than 10 feet away.

Dogguy
October 23, 2011, 12:18 PM
At the risk of continuing to speak from a position of "ignorance", I would point out that Taurus has been in the business of manufacturing firearms since 1939. Yet they never achieved a reputation beyond that of a second-tier arms maker.

I'm well aware that Taurus revolvers and automatics have both been used effectively for self defense. I'm well aware that there are well made and reliable Taurus handguns out there. After all, I once owned a second-tier Charter Arms .38 that was smoother and more accurate than a comparable S&W .38 I also had at the time. But I wouldn't put Charter Arms, as a manufacturer, in the same category of S&W or Ruger or the old Colt revolvers. That's not to say these top-tier arms makers don't put out a POS on occasions. All of them make lemons. I've had a couple of S&Ws that seemed like they were put together by blind monkeys on caffeine binges. But these lemon events are relatively rare.

If you have a good Taurus handgun, that's wonderful and I'm happy for you. You drew a good hand. But don't expect a good hand on every future deal based on a few lucky draws.

Guillermo
October 23, 2011, 01:05 PM
But don't expect a good hand on every future deal based on a few lucky draws

This is sadly true.

And not just of Taurus. These days S&W revolvers fall into the same category, albeit at a much higher price.

Triggernosis
October 23, 2011, 01:17 PM
These days S&W revolvers fall into the same category, albeit at a much higher price.
Agreed!

Guillermo
October 23, 2011, 01:24 PM
Because of the "shot in the dark"/"luck of the draw" nature of new revolvers were I in the market for a new double action revolver (I am not) I would look very hard at Taurus' products.

While they are not as good as a great old Smith, neither is a new Smith.

Depending on the specific gun, I might pop for the Taurus.

I think the OP is well served considering the brand

ljnowell
October 23, 2011, 03:06 PM
No, it was a 1911, ergo piece of crap. I got rid of two, a AO and an AMT, and never tried it again. Actually, one got stolen and the insurance bought me a Ruger P90. I was and am happy, now.
__________________

Wow, irony. Arent you the guy that bent out of shape over people knocking your Taurus? And because you bought two crappy brands of 1911s, they are all crap?

jad0110
October 23, 2011, 09:34 PM
jad, I have to confess that I used to drool over a Taurus 431 that I could never afford when I was in college. I have a S&W 13-3 that (mostly) satisfies my "need" for a 3" fixed-sight revolver that size, but, nice as it is (oh, and it is nice), it still doesn't have those really fat chambers that 431 has ...

Got a 13-3 too. I don't know which I like more though. Of course, I can say that about all my guns.


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%2013%20357%20Magnum/DSC07829.jpg

MCgunner
October 24, 2011, 03:13 PM
Wow, irony. Arent you the guy that bent out of shape over people knocking your Taurus? And because you bought two crappy brands of 1911s, they are all crap?

They fed ball fine..after some work. :rolleyes: That's what they were designed to do. I don't like 1911s for multiple reasons. For one, I shoot and carry revolvers and the manual of arms is quite different. To keep my practice effective, I carry autos that function with a long DA pull of the trigger first shot, no safeties, like my revolvers.

I consider 1911s outdated at any rate. Why buy a gun that won't feed anything, but ball except for it MIGHT if you get 200 bucks or more in smithing done to it? You might can buy one that works out of the box.....for a price. I don't have that sort of money, so I wouldn't know. Les Bauer ain't in my budget. As .45s go, I'm plenty happy with my Ruger KP90DC. Only thing I did to it was a Hogue grip.

So, anyway, keep your POS 1911 and live happy....just givin' it back.

TIMBO749
October 24, 2011, 03:19 PM
I have a Taurus PT 100,2 650 CIA's,PT740 slim and a Millenium Pro PT 140 AND HAVE 0 PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

weregunner
October 25, 2011, 05:51 AM
Welcome to the forum TIMBO and nice post.

weregunner
October 25, 2011, 05:56 AM
The beauty of this is that they've had nothing to hang their hat on overall.:eek::uhoh::banghead::banghead::what::rolleyes:

againstthagrane
October 25, 2011, 06:31 AM
They fed ball fine..after some work. That's what they were designed to do. I don't like 1911s for multiple reasons. For one, I shoot and carry revolvers and the manual of arms is quite different. To keep my practice effective, I carry autos that function with a long DA pull of the trigger first shot, no safeties, like my revolvers.

I consider 1911s outdated at any rate. Why buy a gun that won't feed anything, but ball except for it MIGHT if you get 200 bucks or more in smithing done to it? You might can buy one that works out of the box.....for a price. I don't have that sort of money, so I wouldn't know. Les Bauer ain't in my budget. As .45s go, I'm plenty happy with my Ruger KP90DC. Only thing I did to it was a Hogue grip.

So, anyway, keep your POS 1911 and live happy....just givin' it back.

someone who is defending taurus has no room to bash 1911's. if you can't shoot a 1911 well, you're just not a good marksman. i don't have one anymore, but a well made 1911 is one of the most wonderfully balanced pistols in the world. and a 1911 with a quality trigger is a thing of beauty.

sixgunner455
October 25, 2011, 07:03 AM
Taurus is a brand, 1911 is a design. Taurus even makes a 1911! Maybe he'd like it if he got one that was a Taurus!?

:D

I like the Ruger P90. Odd feel, a bit funny balance, but the one I shot was reliable and v e r y accurate.

bentongunclub
October 25, 2011, 09:11 AM
Hello RedCent. Taurus 1911 pistol is at the bottom of my personal list and I do not plan on spending my personal $$ on any other Taurus pistol. After my 1911 experience I have absolutely no plans to evern try one of their revolvers.

I have one (1911 style) that I sent back twice and the Taurus folks said nothing is wrong with it. It took about 500-700 rounds before it would not lock back on a mag with rounds still in it. If you want aftermarket clips you need to take your pistol to the store and try each mag individually because not all of them will work and some will not even fit in the mag well. I have not had a problem in the last 150-200 rounds but I will never trust my Taurus with anything other than target shooting in a controlled environment or as a hammer (always make sure it is unloaded before using as a hammer, safety is always my primary concern).

The Lone Haranguer
October 25, 2011, 01:50 PM
A Taurus PT945 I had in 1995 was one of the worst handguns I ever had. Before, during and after the three attempts made to repair it, it never fired more than two consecutive shots. Granted, this was a long time ago, but I tend to hold grudges.

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