Bullet choice for low recoil hunting round


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rjfunk
October 20, 2011, 11:10 AM
Looking to load a low recoil hunting round for my daughter and wife. Tried the Rem managed recoil round two years ago. My wife put one in the boiler room at 89 yards. There was not more than a drop or two of blood and there was light snow/frost on the ground so it would be easy to see. I saw where the deer ran so we retrieved it (piled up 80 yards from impact), but the bullet punched a small hole in and out. Would have be the same with a FMJ!

The hodgdon H4895 loads show 100gr HDY SP or 110 SIE SPT. Will these expand at 2000 FPS (200 yards), but not splash on the shoulder at 75 yards? She should be shooting the lungs, but you never know!

I was thinking about Barnes Triple shock as it should not break up, but that would change the pressures, right? Also, the Hornady SST should work b/c it's a long range bullet and should expand very quickly, but the load data doesn't include 130gr bullets. Plus it would increase the recoil.

Has anyone had experience with low velocity bullet expansion?

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jmorris
October 20, 2011, 11:45 AM
For years I have used the 140 grain nosler partition out of a 7mm BR XP-100 on whitetail, always one shot stops, and less percieved recoil than a 44 mag revolver. A few years ago I wanted something similar, enough but not too much, for night hunting hogs. I looked into rebarreling a model seven I had in 7-08 but wound up simply downloading to 7mm BR velocites. At 200 yards and closer it would be hard to beat for recoil sensitive shooters.

Funshooter45
October 20, 2011, 12:22 PM
Actually, I have to go along with the bullet choices listed there by Hodgdon. I assume this is still for your 270 right? I have used a lot of the new fangled hi tech bullets and some of them work well. But I have always gotten very reliable results from those spire point bullets from Hornady and Sierra. They always seem to give at least decent expansion but I havenn't seen them blow up like an SST might. In this case I would give the nod to the Sierra. I think it's intended as a deer bullet whereas I think the Hornady bullet might be intended as a coyote bullet with a very thin jacket. I have always gotten exceptional accuracy with all the Sierra bullets I have used.

rcmodel
October 20, 2011, 12:29 PM
See this about that:
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

I'd also look long and hard at a 150 grain 30-30 flat-point at about 30-30 velocity.
Yea! That's gonna work I betcha!

Edited to add: Unless you are talking about a .270, as I just noticed in the above post!!

rc

bangaway
October 20, 2011, 01:23 PM
What caliber are you talking about? I use both bullets and weights in thirty caliber. If it is indeed thiirty cal. you need help with consider serra 125 gr. flat nose hp. In a 30-30 it runs at 2600 fps. My 30 herret and this head brings home deer. Hope this helps. Have fun and bangaway.

rjfunk
October 20, 2011, 04:05 PM
Sorry, yes I missed mentioning that this is for 270 cal

longdayjake
October 20, 2011, 05:27 PM
For deer you should use the 95 grain ttsx and drive it about 3000 fps. It is supposed to perform at as low as 1600 fps.

gamestalker
October 20, 2011, 06:02 PM
My choice would be to add two mercury tubes to her rifle. Each tube will reduce felt recoil by 20% - 30% so adding two of them will make that .270 win. a lot more comfortable to shoot, without having to risk using a load that isn't going to drop a full sized big game animal with confidence. I've been using these tools for about 20 yrs. for both the 7mm RM and the .270 win. and they are easy to install. I'm a small framed man, 125 lbs. 5' 5" so recoil has always been a big deal to me.

I have a friend that put two on his .338 WM and it makes even that heavy recoiling rifle with full house loads much more tollerable to shoot.

41 Mag
October 20, 2011, 08:44 PM
I have only used the reduced load from Hodgdon in a .308 for my oldest grandson so far, but I have tow more about ready to go at it so I know I will be after them again soon.

This said, I have used a load which I developed years ago when my mom was hunting. It used 46.5grs of IMR-3031, Win-WLr primers and Remington cases. I used the 130gr Ballistic Tip, and from the 22" barrel it ran just over 2700fps. It is probably THE most accurate load that rifle has ever shot, easily grouping 1" or so at 200yds. The best thing was in the 7.5# rifle it was like shooting a .243. My mom was in her early 70's when she finally decided to stop hunting. Up until then however she shot them every year. The daughter used them at 11 to shoot a feral hog at 350+ yards, and I used them on so many deer I lost count.

I know our deer are a quite a bit smaller but you could easily substitute the 130gr Accubond for almost identical results. I have found them to expand down to pretty low velocities. The Hornady SST is, IMO, more like the Ballistic Tip than need be, but there again they also have the Interbond as well. The Barnes bullets would also be great, they are what I used for the grandsons loads in 130grs.

Wishing you all the best and hope this helps.

rjfunk
October 20, 2011, 10:06 PM
I have only used the reduced load from Hodgdon in a .308 for my oldest grandson so far, but I have tow more about ready to go at it so I know I will be after them again soon.

This said, I have used a load which I developed years ago when my mom was hunting. It used 46.5grs of IMR-3031, Win-WLr primers and Remington cases. I used the 130gr Ballistic Tip, and from the 22" barrel it ran just over 2700fps. It is probably THE most accurate load that rifle has ever shot, easily grouping 1" or so at 200yds. The best thing was in the 7.5# rifle it was like shooting a .243. My mom was in her early 70's when she finally decided to stop hunting. Up until then however she shot them every year. The daughter used them at 11 to shoot a feral hog at 350+ yards, and I used them on so many deer I lost count.

I know our deer are a quite a bit smaller but you could easily substitute the 130gr Accubond for almost identical results. I have found them to expand down to pretty low velocities. The Hornady SST is, IMO, more like the Ballistic Tip than need be, but there again they also have the Interbond as well. The Barnes bullets would also be great, they are what I used for the grandsons loads in 130grs.

Wishing you all the best and hope this helps.
41Mag, was that load for your 308, or was that a 270 round?

Also, in the Hodgdon data, is the primer brand strict, or could I substitute a different primer, say Fed 210?

bigedp51
October 21, 2011, 12:34 AM
rjfunk

I hunt Eastern white tail deer in the woods where the average shot is 40 yards and in fields where 150 to 200 would be maximum. I have been reloading for over 40 years and all I use to hunt with are Hornady Interlock bullets. The reason for this is simple, one day at the range I decided to dig up my fired bullets in the dirt berm. The Sierra bullets came apart, the Speer bullets came apart but the Hornady Interlock bullets NEVER separated from the jacket when fired into the shale dirt bank. (hard lumpy dirt)

Looking at the ballistic chart in the Hornady manual for a .270 with an 130 grain Hornady spire point (interlock) With a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps at 300 yards it has a velocity of 2282 with 1503 foot pounds of energy and it will kill a western antelope or deer deader the hell at 300 yards.

A 30-30 with a 150 grain bullet at 2100 fps at the muzzle has 1469 foot pounds of energy and has kill deer for a 100 years. The .270 loading above will do the same at 1503 pounds of energy.

Download the 130 grain Hornady with H4895 to 2000 to 2300 fps and the recoil should not bother anyone. You will have bullet weight for angled shots and still have enough horse powder to kill a deer.

The .270 100 and 110 grain Hornady bullets are for light weight varmints and are not a interlock bullets and will come apart. Don't go with the lighter bullets, just keep the 130 and shoot it slower.

Rifle recoil calculator for the .270 and the 130 grain bullet
Standard factory loading 17 pounds of recoil
Reduced load with 130 grain bullet to 2300 fps is 10 pounds of recoil or a reduction of close to 40%

41 Mag
October 21, 2011, 05:45 AM
Originally Posted by 41 Mag View Post
I have only used the reduced load from Hodgdon in a .308 for my oldest grandson so far, but I have tow more about ready to go at it so I know I will be after them again soon.

This said, I have used a load which I developed years ago when my mom was hunting. It used 46.5grs of IMR-3031, Win-WLr primers and Remington cases. I used the 130gr Ballistic Tip, and from the 22" barrel it ran just over 2700fps. It is probably THE most accurate load that rifle has ever shot, easily grouping 1" or so at 200yds. The best thing was in the 7.5# rifle it was like shooting a .243. My mom was in her early 70's when she finally decided to stop hunting. Up until then however she shot them every year. The daughter used them at 11 to shoot a feral hog at 350+ yards, and I used them on so many deer I lost count.

I know our deer are a quite a bit smaller but you could easily substitute the 130gr Accubond for almost identical results. I have found them to expand down to pretty low velocities. The Hornady SST is, IMO, more like the Ballistic Tip than need be, but there again they also have the Interbond as well. The Barnes bullets would also be great, they are what I used for the grandsons loads in 130grs.

Wishing you all the best and hope this helps.
41Mag, was that load for your 308, or was that a 270 round?

Also, in the Hodgdon data, is the primer brand strict, or could I substitute a different primer, say Fed 210?

The load quoted with IMR-3031 was for the .270 Win using a 130gr Nosler Ballistic tip. It is a VERY mild load IMO and with the BT starting out slower I never experienced any explosive impacts like is sometimes seen with the higher velocity.

As for the Hodgdon data, I have used it with several brands of primers, but in doing so I started off with the start load and worked up. I've usually not had issues going from the Winchester primed loads to Fed or Rem, as they aren't quite as hot, but never the less, it is safer to start low and work up with any change of components.

With the reduced loads for the .308, I used the Youth data and started off practicing with some 125gr BT's, at the start load. At the time the grandson was only 3.5yrs old, and even those rocked him pretty well with the 6.5# rifle. Eventually as he got accustomed to them I switched over to the 130's and bumped the charge weights up. The last he was shooting was 40grs of H-4895 when he was 7, then he moved up to the daughters 6.5x55, and then on to a .243 and 25-06.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
October 21, 2011, 05:57 AM
Barnes Triple Shock X - period.

Barnes specifically states that an X-Bullet the next weight down than one would normally hunt with should be used, as they are so effective.

So, if you have, say, a .270 and would typically load 130g pills for deer, then drop down to a 100 to 110 grain X-Bullet! I am currently shooting 62g X's in my AR, however I am seriously thinking of dropping down to 55g or maybe even a bit lower in weight! With my 1:9 twist, I think part of my not being able to pull a real tight group may be in the weight being just a tad high for my barrel.

I used to be a fan of Nosler Partition, and that was all I shot. When the X came out, and I saw what it does, I changed from the Partition to the X, never looking back.

GooseGestapo
October 21, 2011, 10:03 AM
It will be important to let the daughter shoot the gun before actually taking it out hunting. And practice extensively with a .22lr of same action type.

Secondly, deer don't demand anything as exotic (read expensive) as the Barnes, ect. A good old Sierra 130gr Soft point will do the job well. And, you can buy 200 bullets for price of 50 of the exotic mono-metals.... Rifle may not even need resighting from full powdered loadings likewise.

I'd just use a starting load of either H4895, IMR4064 or IMR3031. Any of these should be accurate and recoil not objectionable. Ear protection is mandatory. It's the muzzle blast that generates more "issues" than the recoil itself from .270 class rifles.

Stock fit/misfit will be more of an issue as this alters perception of recoil. If stock fit is poor, recoil perception is increased.

I had the stock on my custom .257Roberts cut down for my wife and daughters. They all shot their first deer with it. A 100gr bullet at normal loadings was acceptable and none of them developed a flinch. However, all had shot a b/a .22lr extensively, and used an amplifying ear muff when hunting.
Now, with a 1.25" recoil pad in place to replace the original 5/8" pad, the rifle still fits me when wearing winter/hunting cloths....

kingmt
October 21, 2011, 02:04 PM
You want a bullet with a thiner jacket. I suggest a varmint bullet. Bullets react different when you slow them down. As you seen a slower bullet won't release its engery like the faster one.

Try 8gr Red Dot & work down or 15gr Blue Dot &work up. The lighter the better. You'll get hooked on them fast.

rjfunk
October 21, 2011, 02:17 PM
Goose, she's shooting 22lr bolt action right now as well as 223 savage bolt. I may just let her hunt with the 223 this year with a good bullet (Please don't flame me here on this subject as I know this is controversial for some). My wife has no flinch (she probably shoots better than me)! But I want my daughter to start right. And as always for me, hearing protection is a MUST, especially when target shooting. I can't bring myself to cut the Stock on my Browning A-bolt right now, but I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'm going to play with the 110 Sierra and H4985 for now and see how that works.

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