Watch for a double charge ???


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Whitetail1
October 20, 2011, 02:07 PM
I have been reloading 9mm and .45 for a couple years with about 10k+ through my Lee Classic turret. I am very diligent about looking in EVERY case for powder as i place my bullet in place. Last night I was shocked when a saw what seemed like a double charge as I was about to place the bullet in place. For about 10 seconds I second guessed everything I had been doing for the last 2 years and was about to start pointing fingers elsewhere. I just couldn't believe I double charged a round. I took the shell out of the holder and dumped the powder out and found the case had about 1/3 of it's volume filled with hard clay like dirt. The case didn't get cleaned out in my tumbler very well. (i had a match in the rain and everything was a mess the week prior.)
If i hadn't been diligent about looking in every case this could have been disastrous.
Word of wisdom and lesson learned. LOOK IN EVERY CASE NO MATTER HOW CERTAIN YOU ARE!

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rcmodel
October 20, 2011, 02:25 PM
+1
I inspect everything once before it goes in the tumbler.
And a second time when it comes out.

If that don't find it, the depriming punch will when I size & expand after the first cleaning.

In addition to mud pack, I have found range pick-ups with:
* Spider nests firmly glued inside cases.
* Rocks stuck tight in cases.
* Cigarette filters somebody had rolled up and stuck in cases.
* Old fired bullets jammed back inside cases.
* Smaller caliber cases wedged inside larger caliber cases.

rc

1in9twist
October 20, 2011, 04:12 PM
Creepy stuff. I had a hibernating bee in one of my .223 cases a while back. That was fun......:mad:

jmorris
October 20, 2011, 04:20 PM
Another reason why I love the powder check die.

sugarmaker
October 20, 2011, 04:40 PM
Anything I load requires 2 levels of verification for:

Double / missing charge

VISUAL is 1 means - I must see the powder in each case. Dillon Powder check on progressive or shake / crunch / maybe some feel (all this depends on the fill level) on single stage is the 2nd means - this is the AUDIO check, on every round. I also use powder that more than half fills the case.

High primer - seat feel and tactile on hand prime or single stage.
Body die or 2nd resize after seating the primer on progressive - haven't seen a primer yet that'll stick out under sizing forces, even with dirty pockets.

inverted / missing primer / forgot to deprime old case

Feel on the press and visual - i always place my rounds base up in an MTM or equiv. box - it's part of my inspection procedure.

Hondo 60
October 20, 2011, 04:49 PM
Whitetail1 - Thanks for posting.
Hopefully this'll be a reminder for everyone.

beatledog7
October 20, 2011, 05:03 PM
Part of my case prep routine is to run a nylon brush into the case and then do a visual check. If the brush won't go in cleanly, or if I can't see through the flash hole, that case has something in it that must come out.

Walkalong
October 20, 2011, 06:50 PM
Always check for small cases in your .45 Colt brass. ;)

gamestalker
October 20, 2011, 07:10 PM
Getting complacient about inspecting your brass can lead to a very bad experience. If your inspecting your brass properely, you shouldn't be discovering such things as clogged brass during the seating step.

EddieNFL
October 20, 2011, 08:15 PM
I am very diligent about looking in EVERY case for powder as i place my bullet in place.

Lots of folks rely on powder checkers, but I'll never trust a mechanical device/battery more than my eyesight.

1SOW
October 21, 2011, 01:06 AM
Good post. Good catch.

I had a rock lodged in a 9mm case once.

Dirt is a problem in my area, so I soak and pre-wash my cases when I get home from the range. This doesn't mean cases don't need checking, just that not as many will have dirt problems, and my tumbler media stays clean longer..

Keep double checking.

Walkalong
October 21, 2011, 08:46 AM
I brush the inside of every case I scrounge before it is tumbled and put away for later use. I do not do it with my fired brass, but it starts off OK, and as many times as I handle it before it gets a powder charge, I will catch something in it. Should it get that far, I also "see" each powder charge I seat a bullet over, and would hopefully catch it as the OP did.

My "brass brusher" is an old centrifuge that I put a chuck on to hold brushes.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=151288&stc=1&d=1319197526

jmorris
October 21, 2011, 11:08 AM
Quote:


I am very diligent about looking in EVERY case for powder as i place my bullet in place.


Lots of folks rely on powder checkers, but I'll never trust a mechanical device/battery more than my eyesight.


They haven't made crank start carburated cars in 80 some odd years and to not trust any mechanical device you'd need a heck of a horse. As far as simple devices go a PC die would be at the top of the list, way down that list you would find pace maker and others that people these days don't live without.

Whitetail1
October 21, 2011, 11:27 AM
Nice brusher Walkalong. This looks like a good way to get my son involved in the reloading process. He shoots almost as much as me at 11 years old now.
Thanks for the tip.

Maximumbob54
October 21, 2011, 12:10 PM
Assuming you are using the Pro Auto Disk or the Adjustable Charge Bar on a Lee Classic Turret, I'm not sure how you would get a double charge. I love that press. I tried for a while to figure out a way to get a case activated powder meter on the Lee Powder Through Expander die and just ended with I could buy the RCBS or Hornady system with the Powder Funner mod and it would have worked but it was really bulky. I love that press.

Whitetail1
October 21, 2011, 12:27 PM
I do have the Pro auto disc. I have never had any issues. It is very reliable. I found a whole bag of discs at a garage sale and have tweaked several for specific loads. I color coded them and use a chart to keep them straight. The whole system has been flawless. I get about 150-175 an hour without killing my self and this is good enough for me.

chrt396
October 21, 2011, 04:03 PM
If you were powder charging the round and noticed all the clay like dirt in the case...how did you re-size, de-cap and re-prime without running in to that obstruction?

EddieNFL
October 21, 2011, 09:08 PM
They haven't made crank start carburated cars in 80 some odd years and to not trust any mechanical device you'd need a heck of a horse. As far as simple devices go a PC die would be at the top of the list, way down that list you would find pace maker and others that people these days don't live without.
Faulty analogy. Anyway, there's no need to defend your choice; it's your's to make.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
October 21, 2011, 09:15 PM
This is one reason I clean every primer pocket.
This would not slip by my process of cleaning primer pockets.

1SOW
October 21, 2011, 10:45 PM
Most straight wall case pistol shooters don't clean primer pockets.

Walkalong
October 22, 2011, 12:00 AM
I know I don't.

Greg Mercurio
October 22, 2011, 06:03 AM
OP: How did the case get de-primed?

jmorris
October 22, 2011, 10:00 AM
Faulty analogy. Anyway, there's no need to defend your choice; it's your's to make.



I'll never trust a mechanical device/battery more than my eyesight.


Not defending any choice, simply pointing out, like it or not, every day we have our lives in the "hands" of both electrical and mechanical devices. This is due to the fact they don't get tired or bored of doing the same thing over and over. They are also very repeatable from one device to another. If this were true about eyes as well...well there would not be threads like this one every few days.

Walkalong
October 22, 2011, 10:41 AM
Excellent point.

It is quite easy to lose focus and miss looking into a case. Focus is something we have to guard against losing any and all the time we reload. :)

RandyP
October 22, 2011, 12:24 PM
+1 on the auto-advancing Lee turret - it would require 'extra' special effort to double charge a case. I never thought about clay inside a spent case before - I scrounge all my brass at an indoor range that prohibits smoking, so there is not much foreign material than can get stuck in a case and make it past my inspection when I am separating the spent brass pre-tumbling.

I deprime/prime on the press - perhaps the decapping pin would go right thru any dirt/clay with ease and not be noticed?

Uniquedot
October 22, 2011, 12:57 PM
I left some clean once fired rifle cases in the shed once and a mud dauber built nests in them. I carefully inspect the insides of any cases that were left uncovered now.

RustyFN
October 22, 2011, 02:04 PM
I have reloaded safe ammo for years without a powder check die, don't need one now. How did people load safe ammo all these years before the powder check die came out? :D

jmorris
October 22, 2011, 06:57 PM
Many have done and continue to do just fine. Others start "kaboom" threads. I am one of those that think airbags in cars don't allow elimination of the weak minded but I still put babys in car seats instead of the package tray like "in the good ole days".

EddieNFL
October 22, 2011, 07:51 PM
...and I don't run redlights just because my truck has airbags and seatbelts.

There's nothing wrong with using check dies, I just trust my eyes more than a battery or mechanical device. If my eyes stop working, I'll know immediately. No wondering when the battery died or the die hung up.

Walkalong
October 22, 2011, 09:17 PM
I made my own powder check die years and years ago, but decided visually checking the powder was better for me. That works fine for a single stage, and for the Projector/now the LNL presses. It may not work for some progressives with where the powder is dropped and which way the case is going.

Strykervet
October 22, 2011, 09:41 PM
I tumble, size and decap, trim, then run them through various operations on the RCBS prep station. I use a digital dispenser and scale, and a single stage press. I do one at a time. When I dump one charge and return the pan, it is dispensing the next load while I am seating the bullet on the previous load. Don't seem to have problems this way, but I'm still careful.

Kind of slow, but I get real good ammo this way, better than I can buy.

beatledog7
October 22, 2011, 11:02 PM
I deprime/prime on the press - perhaps the decapping pin would go right thru any dirt/clay with ease and not be noticed?

That has happened to me. That's why I run a brush all the way into every case.

orionengnr
October 23, 2011, 09:54 PM
...how did you re-size, de-cap and re-prime without running in to that obstruction?
Yep, that was exactly what I was wondering...

Whitetail1
October 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
I sized the case and re primed in stage one of the turret and didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. The dirt in the case was still stuck to the bottom of the case. it must have had a hole in it where the de-priming pin went through it but i didn't look it over very closely. I just knew it didn't belong in there. I load a lot of range brass and occasionally get a batch of brass that must be of military specs as they are harder to size and re-prime. I would have to guess when the dirty case came along i must have thought it was one of these. Usually when i have one that is a little tougher, i look it over a second time after it's completion to be certain it was one of the military type cases. If is was not, it is pulled apart, inspected and reloaded.
I run a pretty tight ship at my re loader. I'm not doing because i need a lot of ammo. I do it save a little cash and for my own satisfaction when i shoot a match. I only load about 5K a year.

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