1911 sloppy trigger fix, help please.


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1hogfan83
October 20, 2011, 05:42 PM
i recently purchased a sw1911pd of which i love, very acurate and all around great gun. my only complaint with the gun is that it has a sloppy trigger. it has a pretty crisp break in the trigger, about 4.5 pounds but it moves up and down, left and right. my big question is, can i just buy a drop in trigger, preferably from wilson combat? i really dont want to send it in to a gunsmith if its a simple job. thanks for all your help.

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rcmodel
October 20, 2011, 05:48 PM
A drop-in trigger still has to be fitted to the frame.

Your stock trigger can be adjusted to some extent.
Side to side movement by spreading the steel trigger bow to better fit the slots in the frame.

Up & down could be helped with a series of center-punch divots on the bottom of the aluminum finger piece, or peening the finger piece to make it expand on the bottom, then refitting with a fine file for a perfect sliding fit.

rc

David E
October 20, 2011, 05:52 PM
Sounds like a non-problem to me.

Magoo
October 20, 2011, 06:03 PM
If you're not happy with it, it sounds like a problem to me.

"Drop in part" should be made illegal in reference to 1911 parts. It just aint fair to say. You might get lucky here and there, but for the most part, 1911 pieces need fitting. You may or may not have the skills and tools for any particular piece.

There's a ton of info out there if you want to go the DIT route. There are lots of competent smiffs out there if you don't or need a bailout part of the way through.

Old Fuff
October 20, 2011, 06:34 PM
This issue in S&W 1911 style pistols has been brought to my attention before. In examining dimensions between the frame, trigger fingerpiece and USGI blueprints I found that the slot in the frame for the fingerpiece was oversized, where the fingerpiece itself was undersized. The result was excessive slop.You may be able to install a so-called "match trigger," with an oversized fingerpiece and not remove any material.

rogerjames
October 20, 2011, 06:55 PM
I bought a solid aluminum trigger from Midway to replace the 3-hole version. It definitely was not drop in. The trigger was too tall vertically to fit into place. After spending an hour "carefully filing" the top and bottom of the new trigger with a medium stone, it wasn't any closer to fitting.

Then I pulled out the dremel :evil:

After about 5 minutes with the dremel, the trigger dropped in nicely.

Like other's have said... It wasn't even remotely close to "drop in", but you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a certified tool whiz either.

Old Fuff
October 20, 2011, 07:04 PM
Yup....

But on the other hand if you had a frame where the slot was oversized in a vertical direction...

Then maybe... ;)

1hogfan83
October 20, 2011, 10:04 PM
i dont know enough about 1911's to do it myself, i may just send it into a gunsmith and send the wilson combat parts. i want a bob tail mainspring too so just kill to birds with one stone.

Drail
October 20, 2011, 10:53 PM
It is really a pretty simple fitting job. Don't use stones for this. A smooth file followed by some sandpaper is better and doesn't clog your stones up with aluminum. All frames are different. Sometimes they need a LOT of material removed and sometimes they almost really do "drop in".

tlen
October 21, 2011, 01:44 AM
The "slop" in the trigger doesn't affect function and is common with
SW1911s. I'd leave it alone and move on.

1hogfan83
October 21, 2011, 09:12 AM
the sloppy trigger deffinatly effects the function. i certainly wouldnt accept this in a rifle and this is going to be a carry gun. i have read on the wilson combat parts reviews that some litteraly drop in and others take 10-30 min after a little sanding or filing. i know they arent an expensive part but i really dont want to screw it up.

Old Fuff
October 21, 2011, 09:44 AM
If it isn't clear, understand that they (or you) don't modify the frame, just the trigger. The trigger fingerpiece is made oversized to that it can be fitted.

Since you have other work in mind, I would let the gunsmith take care of the whole project.

And from a personal point of view, I think that S&W - as well as other manufacturers - should be able to meet or exceed the generous dimensions and tolerances found in USGI service pistol blueprints. Given that the frames are supposedly made using state-of-the-art CNC machines why should the fit between the fingerpiece slot in the frame and the trigger's fingerpiece be so far off?

I wouldn't "move on," I'd ask some pointed questions. :cuss:

Drail
October 21, 2011, 09:55 AM
Probably because most 1911 manufacturers don't make small parts like triggers but buy them from an outside vendor but not one that makes them oversize to allow for precise fitting in frames that are held to fairly loose tolerances. And they figure that most consumers don't know or care about precision. Most people now seem to only be concerned with the weight and the mag capacity. Or the finish. Most consumers today purchase things because of how they "look". Cars. Clothes. Houses. Firearms.

1hogfan83
October 21, 2011, 10:12 AM
I totally agree with you, the only reason i havent thrown a fit and sent it back is because the gun has been totally reliable and has no other problems. i bought it through the mail. i used a internet dealer, buds gun shop, and got a killer price on it. i have to concentrate and hold the trigger up to the top of the frame to get the close groups, i cant rely on that in a gun fight.

Bozwell
October 21, 2011, 11:38 AM
That sounds like something I would call S&W about. That gun has a fairly hefty price tag and, in my mind, you should have to break out your files or consult a gun smith on a brand new gun to get the trigger to fit properly. If it was me, I'd send it back and have one of their smiths fit it properly (and expect them to pay for shipping as well). I doubt their customer service dept. would give you any pushback on this request.

Old Fuff
October 21, 2011, 11:52 AM
Probably because most 1911 manufacturers don't make small parts like triggers but buy them from an outside vendor but not one that makes them oversize to allow for precise fitting in frames that are held to fairly loose tolerances.

It's true that most manufacturers (and that includes Colt's) buy small parts and magazines from outside vendors. However I would hope that when these parts arrive a representive sample is inspected to be sure they "are to print," (the gun manufacturers' print, not necessarily USGI drawings).

The CNC machined frame should have a precisely cut fingerpiece slot in the frame because all of the bragging about "modern machinery" comes down to precision. If the slot is what it should be the vendor should be able to hold the height of the fingerpiece to dimensions that insure no-fitting interchangability without excessive vertical movement.

rcmodel
October 21, 2011, 11:55 AM
S&W must have thought there was a problem.
They supposedly fixed it on the new E-series guns.

Note feature A5.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_770151_-1_757752_757751_image

See this about that halfway down the page:
http://funreviews.net/publish/SportsandRecreation/Smith_Wesson_s_New_SW1911_Pistol_Line.php

rc

1hogfan83
October 21, 2011, 12:15 PM
since my gun isnt an E series gun i dont know if they put of thought into my nagging since even the review guns were having this problem. maybe i should have just bit the bullet and bought the E series and slept a few nights on the couch. who knows. unfortunalty my wife knows how much guns cost and knows the difference between each one of them.

1911Tuner
October 21, 2011, 01:02 PM
This issue in S&W 1911 style pistols has been brought to my attention before. In examining dimensions between the frame, trigger fingerpiece and USGI blueprints I found that the slot in the frame for the fingerpiece was oversized, where the fingerpiece itself was undersized.

Ya know, Fuff...I see things like this and I shake my head. The 1911 and its variations have been in continuous production for a century now. This thing ain't exactly a Swiss watch. Why is it that the various clone makers seem to feel like they don't need to look at and follow blueprint dimensions?

Beats all I ever seen.

Old Fuff
October 21, 2011, 01:21 PM
Beats all I ever seen.

I think what's behind it is that for many (not including us) buyers now want big-boy toys, not service pistols as such. Rattle-bang is out and tightness simply for tightness sake is in. A lot of the makers don't make the parts that go into they're products, and if they can be put together and people will buy them, why worry? It isn't that a tight gun can't be reliable, but rather to be so they must be bench assembled, one at a time. Less tight (if built right) are more reliable, but less accurate then is generally demanded - even by those who can't hit the side of a barn while inside with the door closed. :what:

If you just assemble parts that you buy elsewhere, why do you need any blueprints? :banghead:

Skylerbone
October 21, 2011, 02:13 PM
As an E-Series owner I can assure prospective owners that the problem most certainly WAS addressed. Unfortunately, the problem most certainly STILL REMAINS.

Rather than programming the new CNCs in the Maine facility to properly cut frame dimensions, S&W chose instead to add material to the top of the trigger shoe via two "steps". Mine was still loose and as I value a clean trigger I fit a new Grieder.

To the OP: since parts are decidedly not drop-in, in my case requiring thinning of the sear feet, polishing of the bow and the usual filing to height, I would recommend adding a bit of Bondo or similar to the top and carefully filing to fit. The Wilson would be a good second option as the bow is shorter than the standard Grieder (which can be ordered with a slightly shorter bow) but will need to be adjusted properly for height by filing and length using the tabs.

The SW1911 is by no means a traditional 1911 but mine has been reliable thus far with no suspect wear to speak of. The only other real change would be to a lighter recoil spring as the OEM is a heavy, stiff, short lived bit of bailing wire junk. I like my Smith but I'm sticking to Colts from now on.

Greg528iT
October 21, 2011, 02:21 PM
See this about that halfway down the page:
http://funreviews.net/publish/Sports...istol_Line.php

Nice find RC.

While those little pads could be eliminated with using the original USGI dimensions and tightening the tolerances, a manufacturer would lose twice. The supplier of the triggers would charge more (they almost always do) and they would lose being able to advertise the custom fit feature.

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