Cimarron and ACI Brand Reliability?


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fishblade2
October 21, 2011, 01:47 AM
I find the older guns of the west pretty interesting. I have been looking up older models of the past years gone by and I have found two major brands that keep popping out: Uberti and Cimarron. After some research and questioning I have found that Uberti make a fine shooting gun but what about Cimarron? I haven't really found much detail on them. I know that their prices are pretty high so I just wanted to know if their quality matches it. Along with that I did notice that ACI made a couple revolver guns (But of course are known for other guns more) but how reliable are their guns? Thanks for any comments and help provided!

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StrawHat
October 21, 2011, 07:06 AM
Cimarron is merely an importer of firearms. (Not unlike Sears). Uberti is a manufacturer and makes firearms for Cimarron. Cimarron supposedly has a deal with Uberti for a better finished firearm than the "others" get. Other importers are Navy Arms, Dixie Gun Works, and the Log Cabin Shop. Some of the box stores import also.

Pietta is also a maker of decent quality western style firearms, as is Pedersoli. I have firearms from all three and all have needed some work to become what I wanted, but they were very good platforms with which to start.

calaverasslim
October 21, 2011, 07:46 AM
Actually Beretta owns Uberti now, but thats inmaterial. Thats why you may see a Uberti and a Beretta pistol look identical.

Most of the Itialian imorts need work right out of the box. They can be a little rough and their main springs will need replaced within months.

If you want a top of the line, right out of the box, single action pistol, then spend a little more money and buy a USPFA, the Rodeo, or one of the others. These USPFA single actions are some of the sweetest revolvers right from the chute. Puts Colts to shame.

fishblade2
October 22, 2011, 01:52 AM
what type of work do they usually need, is it easy to get the parts for them to be fixed, and what is the price tag on some of these corrections? Any tips on things to change out as soon as I buy one to avoid a disaster?

flightsimmer
October 22, 2011, 04:20 AM
Quote - Most of the Itialian imorts need work right out of the box. They can be a little rough and their main springs will need replaced within months.

This brings up a question I have about flat main springs.
I you file, smooth and polish the edges of a flat main spring to a mirror finish, does it help prevent main spring breakage?
I know on metal aircraft propellers that if you file out and smooth dings and dents that it helps prevent propeller failure from stress risers.

StrawHat
October 22, 2011, 06:31 AM
One of the reasons imports are less costly is the lesser amount of hand fitting done in the factory. When I get a revolver (Colts1860 or 1861) I dissemble it and look for burrs on the working or moving parts. I clean and polish any mating parts so they fit together correctly. DO NOT alter the angle between the trigger and hammer! I also inspect and remove burrs from the ratchet end of the cylinder. I have an assortment of files, stones and stick (to which I glue crocus cloth or fine wet/dry paper) to help me accomplish this.

I look at the inside of the frame and remove burrs and such. If there are machine marks where the parts move, I polish them a bit. Not a lot of polishing is needed. Not looking for a mirror finish, just remove things that will get in the way of the moving parts.

I also polish the pivots (screw) on which parts rotate and lightly polish the holes in the parts.

Springs have gottten so weak since I started shooting these revovlers they are almost worthless. A weakly powered spring does lighten the trigger pull but most shooters can not take advantage of a light pull, especially with Colt style sights, anyway. The shooters are better served with a stronger spring that keeps the spent caps on the cones and out of the action. I have made stronger springs for my revolvers and prefer tham. You may not and choose to keep the light mainspring. That is what makes a good race, different opinions.

Is a lot of work needed on these imports? Not really, they are mostly okay right from the box. I doubt it takes more than 1 - 2 hours to do what I have mentioned. I buy used so I may have to do a bit more work to get them where I want them.

calaverasslim
October 22, 2011, 08:01 AM
+1 with strawhat. Unfortunatly most folk do not know as much as they need to do the work strawhat is talking about.

Leave the mainspring alone and just replace it with a Wolff mainspring and your problem is fixed.

flightsimmer
October 22, 2011, 10:10 AM
+1 with strawhat. Unfortunatly most folk do not know as much as they need to do the work strawhat is talking about.

Leave the mainspring alone and just replace it with a Wolff mainspring and your problem is fixed.
What if Wolff doesn't list one for your model?

I just purchased a new spare main spring from Uberti (VTI Gun Parts) for their Stallion which is about a 20% smaller frame than the full sized model "P" 1873 Colt SAA copy.

InkEd
October 22, 2011, 10:21 AM
Here are some other options for you to checkout....

If you're looking for a SAA type gun (besides an actual Colt), alot of people feel that while not the most historically accurate the Ruger Vaquero and New Vaquero are some of the best choices. Based on what I've heard USFA makes some great (but pricey) guns. Lastly, the STI Texican revolvers seem to be pretty nice too.

FWIW I like the Ruger New Vaquero the best and really enjoy mine.

StrawHat
October 23, 2011, 07:48 AM
flightsimmer Quote:What if Wolff doesn't list one for your model?

I just purchased a new spare main spring from Uberti (VTI Gun Parts) for their Stallion which is about a 20% smaller frame than the full sized model "P" 1873 Colt SAA copy.

For what model revolver are you trying to get a spring?

Hondo 60
October 23, 2011, 02:56 PM
Most of the Italian imports need work right out of the box. They can be a little rough and their main springs will need replaced within months.

That certainly has NOT been my experience.

I have a Uberti & just sold a Cimarron.
(actually the Cimarron is a Uberti - just fitted & finished by Cimarron)

Both were of excellent quality right outta the box.
Very accurate with 2 1/2" spread free hand at 10 yards. (see target)

They can do the same at 25 yards from a rest.

http://www.jbabcock.net/guns/uberti_target.jpg

CraigC
October 23, 2011, 03:03 PM
I work over the actions of all my single actions. The later model Italian replicas tend to be on par with Colt as far as roughness. Which is not a good thing. They have gotten much better in recent years. ALL benefit from some judicious stoning of the lockwork and new springs. The only new single actions I've experienced that do not need an action job is USFA but they too need new springs.

flightsimmer
October 23, 2011, 03:12 PM
For what model revolver are you trying to get a spring?
Well I've already purchased a new (factory lightened) hammer main spring from VTI Gun Parts for the Uberty, Stallion which is the same gun as the Cimarron, Lightning or Model "P" Jr.
But all of the springs I've seen have relatively rough edges on them so I took and carefully filed one of them length wise and rounded the edges, then stoned it and sanded it with #400 w/d paper and finished it with jewlers rouge and a buffing wheel to a mirror finish, being careful not get it heated up, hoping that it would prevent a failure.

flightsimmer
October 23, 2011, 03:29 PM
Here are some other options for you to checkout....

If you're looking for a SAA type gun (besides an actual Colt), alot of people feel that while not the most historically accurate the Ruger Vaquero and New Vaquero are some of the best choices. Based on what I've heard USFA makes some great (but pricey) guns. Lastly, the STI Texican revolvers seem to be pretty nice too.

FWIW I like the Ruger New Vaquero the best and really enjoy mine.

I also have a stainless 4-3/4", "Old model" Vaquero in 45 Colt caliber and I want to buy a stainless "New model" Vaquero 4-3/4" in 357 Magnum and my local gun shop has one but with all of the guns I already have, I'm finding it hard to justify buying another one.
But the Ruger single actions are good to go right out of the box it seems.

BTW, there are kits or parts to easily convert a flat main spring single action to a coil spring like the Rugers, I"ve seen some somewhere, maybe in a magazine.

Red Cent
October 23, 2011, 06:54 PM
Taylor's Firearms also import the Ubertis.

The Smoke Wagon revolver is more smooth than the USFA out of the box. These revolvers are personally gone over ny Cody Conagher aka Don Jones, a good friend and one of the top SA gunsmiths in the United States.

I am not sure of the comparison that is being used. I would challenge anyone to compare a tuned SA by Cody or a couple of other very competent SA gunsmiths. And they are not a race gun. They will pop any primer you can buy.

Strawhat, I think the innards of a black powder pistol cannot be compared to a smokeless revolver. You need some strong springs in yours.

A $1200.00 Colt needs improvement from the box. Unless you like the heavy springs and the stiff action.

The recent Ubertis can really be made to run.

StrawHat
October 24, 2011, 07:33 AM
Red Cent, you are correct about the C&B compared to the cartridge revovler. For some reason I thought the OP was asking about C&B revolvers. but even the cartridge revovlers from Italy benefit from a going over. Of course, so do some of the "Made in USA" revolvers. The nice thing about having shot originals and replicas is I get to compare them and find similarities and differences. Basically, they all can benefit from some fine tuning. Some require more than others. Since the 70s. I have used the replica revolvers as my basic revolvers for competition and retired the originals. It is a bit easier to adjust something made in the last decade rather than trying to fit parts to something made 150 years ago.

I recently rebuilt a ASM Richards conversion of the 1860, spring and innards, but it is a C&B at heart. The Model Ps I have worked on were a bit easier, just springs and polishing.

PRM
October 24, 2011, 02:47 PM
I've been shooting single action guns for over 30 years. My favorite is a 1960s era 3rd Generation Colt.

I've have owned and shot a number of the Uberti cap and ball revolvers and they have been on par with my Colt 2nd Generation and Signature Series guns. One of my recent acquisitions is a Uberti Remington New Army in SS. It's an all around fun gun, reliable and well built.

As previously posted, Cimarron is an importer and carries mostly Uberti firearms. They are supposed to be top of the line, "hand picked" Uberti firearms, and they do offer some different finishes you can only get through them. I own two of their guns. First, was a Cimarron Lightning. Out of the box the firing pin was too short and would barely dent the primers. Cimarron offered to fix the gun, but considering shipping cost and turn around time, I had a local gunsmith fabricate one and I was back in business in two days. This has been a great little gun. Second, was a Bisley Model. This gun was nothing but trouble. To start, the cylinder had been so aggressively buffed in the final finish that it would not lock up. It kind of became a project gun that grew in cost as it went. By the time it was right, the only thing left of the original gun was the barrel & frame. I know you can get a lemon with any brand. My Bisley, must have gone through QC five minutes before closing on Friday. I'm not saying I would not buy another Cimarron if the price was right, but it would be hard for me to buy a Cimarron over the standard Uberti considering the extra cost. I would have been money ahead and had a much nicer gun if I had bough a USFA to start with.

tpelle
October 26, 2011, 01:28 PM
I have a Cimarron Model P in .45 Colt. Just bought it a couple of months ago. FYI, the hand spring (probably the most commonly broken leaf spring on Colt SA actions) is actually a coil spring and plunger a la Ruger.

dprice3844444
October 26, 2011, 02:49 PM
flight,just imagine your wife justifying a new pair of shoes/handbags,then buy it

flightsimmer
October 27, 2011, 02:38 PM
I got to thinking that although the frame on the Uberti, Stallion / Cimarron, model P Jr. / Lightning, is about 20% smaller as you can see in the picture, the grip is the same size as the full sized model P, so the lightened, Wolff flat hammer spring probably would fit.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/flightsimmer_2009/PA270010.jpg

Factory lightened Wolff hammer spring.
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/flightsimmer_2009/SAA20Mainspring.jpg

PRM
October 27, 2011, 03:10 PM
Flightsimmer

Have they changed the grip size on the Model P Jr? I looked at one about 8 years ago when I bought my Lightning and if I remember correctly the older guns had a smaller grip than the full size.

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