CZ75s and XTPs, TC flat points incompatible?


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PO2Hammer
October 21, 2011, 02:55 AM
Seriously considering a CZ75b as my next pistol, loving everything about it including ergonomics, the Kadet conversion and more.

I have 300 124 grain XTPs, about 500 HAPs (same profile as XTP) and some of Berry's 124 HBFP. I'm concerned they won't work well in a 75.

I can handle loading them to a shorter OAL, but have read a lot of threads over at the CZ forum and elsewhere where people have feeding trouble with XTPs and other truncated cone shape bullets.

What do the CZ shooters here think?

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PDC
October 21, 2011, 03:22 AM
I load all sorts of bullets for my 75B.

One type is the Montana Gold 124 grain JHP. It has a truncated cone profile very similar to the Hornady bullets, thereby requiring a much shorter OAL.

I load them with Titegroup to an OAL of 1.085 (based on my chamber measurements), and they shoot like a dream and are ridiculously accurate. I have no problems with feeding.

I use a slightly reduced charge from what I use for my Berry's 124 grain RN and HBRN to account for the much smaller available case volume. This was empirically determined from a lot of bench testing.

Hope this helps!

PO2Hammer
October 21, 2011, 12:27 PM
Yes, thanks.

amlevin
October 21, 2011, 01:00 PM
I load only Montana Gold 124gr JHP's for my CZ75 SP-01. OAL of 1.125" works great but anything longer is a pain. For some reason CZ makes their chambers real short when compared to others like on my Sig.

I've considered getting a reamer and reworking the barrel but for the price it would be more cost effective to just buy a custom replacement with dimensions more like the Sig.

chris in va
October 22, 2011, 01:56 AM
I tried a CN lead bullet for my CZ but soon discovered (as you did) the leade is extremely short and it wouldn't chamber properly. Now I would imagine a JHP design to not have the same issue as they are usually sized to .355 while my lead bullet was .357.

I've since switched to a 'cowboy bullet Lee 358-125-RF mold but it still has to be loaded short, 1.01oal. Thousands down the pipe, reliable as FMJ.

On a side note I'm finding my new 97b has the same teething problem. Headed to the range tomorrow with some really short 1.17's to see if they finally chamber properly.

RustyFN
October 22, 2011, 01:50 PM
I have a CZ 75BD Police. I have only shot Berry's 124 grain FP's through it so far and have had no feeding problems. You will have to seat thwm deeper. Just keep seating one a little deeper and keep doing a barrel drop test until you find the OAL that works. I had to seat the Berry's down to 1.036 to get them to chamber.

PO2Hammer
October 22, 2011, 04:13 PM
Thanks Rusty.

armarsh
October 22, 2011, 11:13 PM
I've shot 124 grain XTP's , gold dots, Remington JHC, and Montana Gold in my CZ75. No problems with any of them.

jfremder
October 23, 2011, 08:07 AM
Seriously considering a CZ75b as my next pistol, loving everything about it including ergonomics, the Kadet conversion and more.

I have 300 124 grain XTPs, about 500 HAPs (same profile as XTP) and some of Berry's 124 HBFP. I'm concerned they won't work well in a 75.

I can handle loading them to a shorter OAL, but have read a lot of threads over at the CZ forum and elsewhere where people have feeding trouble with XTPs and other truncated cone shape bullets.

What do the CZ shooters here think?
Never any issues with any jacketed, but my CZ-75b does have a very short chamber. MB Small ball (LRN) need to be at a 1.06" COAL to chamber properly, requiring an associated drop in the charge weight.

zeke
October 23, 2011, 08:11 PM
Am loading 124 xtps for a cz 75b and a cz 75 compact. The compact has a very short lede (spelling), and the 124 xtp at 1.113 fits without jamming into the rifling. Never had any problem with the xtps and the cz's.

PO2Hammer
October 23, 2011, 09:01 PM
Excellent. I ordered a new 75b poly coat Saturday.

Hopefully my supply of XTP's, HAP's and HBFP-TP's (Berry's) will shoot well.

I'll probably order some HBRN's from Berry's, I need some more plated DEWC's for my .357s anyway.

1SOW
October 23, 2011, 09:45 PM
I shoot the 75B 9mm and have loaded all the above except the xtp.
Using the "drop-in test", determine the the oal your gun will chamber easily. I use the oal that touches the leade/forcing cone MINUS .015". This allows a little slack for press and other variations.

My 75B and my son's Shadow will chamber the MG 124 jhp at 1.10" reliably X thousands of times.

The Berry's 124HBRN is a good shooter that will load out to SAAMI max length++ with no chamber problems.

I've seen that on truncated cone/conical bullets--no ogive, the point the bullet changes from straight sidewall to the cone-shape will need to be the same distance above the case mouth (+/- case length differences) for virtually any bullet of this type, FP or HP. CZ's shorter chamber needs a shorter oal to stop the longer bullet sidewall from contacting the forcing cone/leade.

JMHO, YMMV

rfwobbly
October 23, 2011, 10:40 PM
What 1SOW said is good info.

I've loaded Hornady XTP, HAP and TAP without any feeding issues, but the OAL will be shorter than what Hornady manual recommends. When loaded correctly, they shoot very well. Same for the 3 different Berry FP. Any bullet with a conical nose and sharp shoulder is going to require some research on your part.

I've also not seen any nose shape that had issues climbing the CZ feed ramp.

The bullets that really DO give CZs a hard time are the Flat Point Round Nose (on the left, below), because the ogive is blunt and the full .355 diameter comes out so far. The resulting useful OAL of a brand I tested came out shorter than 1.000". Not only did I have doubts about the feeding reliability, there was no load data anywhere at that short length.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sGua8rQCV7E/S3YuUS6TZyI/AAAAAAAACu0/8VRRqOxmSU8/s640/zero.jpg

For those reasons, I'm mostly shooting HP and RN these days. The Berry 124gr RNHP deserves special attention.

;)

PO2Hammer
October 23, 2011, 10:42 PM
I've seen that on truncated cone/conical bullets--no ogive, the point the bullet changes from straight sidewall to the cone-shape will need to be the same distance above the case mouth (+/- case length differences) for virtually any bullet of this type, FP or HP. CZ's shorter chamber needs a shorter oal to stop the longer bullet sidewall from contacting the forcing cone/leade.
Good info.

All the good advice should minimize the learning curve with the 75 and is appreciated.

Looks like my RN/RNFP recipes will transfer from my Glock to the CZ.
I'll rework all the cone shape loads after I get the gun.

I do plan to load up some .356"/130 plated RN's ahead of time just to have something to shoot when it comes in.

I have a chrono on loan for the next week or so, I better take full advantage of it. Hopefully the warm weather stays around a while.

Thanks all.

rfwobbly
October 23, 2011, 10:44 PM
I do plan to load up some .356"/130 plated RN's ahead of time just to have something to shoot when it comes in.

All 6 Berry plated RN (115, 124, 130, 135, 147 & 124 HBRN) will load out to the SAAMI max with room to spare. Load away.

If you enjoyed reading about "CZ75s and XTPs, TC flat points incompatible?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!