Hikock45's comment on Smith & Wesson M&P trigger vs Glock trigger


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wacki
October 22, 2011, 02:24 AM
Hikock45 said the Smith and Wesson M&P trigger was "sweet, almost too sweet".

According to wikipedia Glock has:

The factory-standard two-stage trigger has a trigger travel of 12.5 mm (0.49 in) and is rated at 25 N (5.6 lbf)

The M&P trigger (according to wikipedia):

The M&P factory trigger is of the jointed type and has a trigger travel of 7.6 mm (0.3 in) and is rated at 29 N (6.5 lbf). The M&P45c models have a slightly higher rated trigger pull of 31 N (7.0 lbf).

Why is higher lbf better? That is opposite of what I would of thought.

source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_M%26P

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Jim Watson
October 22, 2011, 06:55 AM
Lighter is generally better, but...
First, subjective feel can matter more than small measured differences.
Second, measured trigger pulls can vary a good deal from catalog descriptions.
Those numbers have way too many decimal places. 5.6 and 6.5 lbs are not really a difference in mass produced guns built out of stamped parts.

JDGray
October 22, 2011, 07:32 AM
I traded a M&P9, for a G19 because of that sweet trigger:barf: An Apex sear can help, but no thanks.

Quoheleth
October 22, 2011, 07:49 AM
I respect Hickock45's opinion, but regarding the M&P, his opinion differs from mine.

Had an M&P and sold it because of the trigger's "snap." Bought a SR9c and never looked back.

Q

jmr40
October 22, 2011, 09:27 AM
The actual weight of a trigger pull is less important than crispness or consistency. I'd much rather have a 5-6 lb trigger that broke crisply at exactly the same pull weight everytime than a 3-4 lb trigger that was mushy and sometimes broke at 3 lbs and other times at 4 lbs.

I much prefer the Glock trigger because if it's consistency and crispness.

97guns
October 22, 2011, 10:08 AM
im like hikock, never really pulled a trigger i didn't like, my carry piece is an LC9

Skylerbone
October 22, 2011, 11:01 AM
Don't know the man myself and I don't rely on web video opinion to make up my mind.

Some will prefer one trigger to another for reasons entirely their own. Honestly, anyone who thinks the Glock or M&P stock triggers are a deciding factor ought to have their head examined. Both can be improved exponentially with a bit of effort but neither will ever be a great trigger. Maybe Jewel or Timney will someday offer drop in modules but until that day I'll base decisions on reliability, accuracy, ergonomics, simplicity and warranty.

Which ever you chose or choose, base it on the idea that things like trigger and sights ought to be modified (and modifiable) to suit your individual needs.

jon_in_wv
October 22, 2011, 12:20 PM
I prefer the trigger of the M&Ps in general. I like the reset of the Glock but the trigger of the M&P is just "smoother" to me.

ShawnC
October 22, 2011, 01:52 PM
im like hikock, never really pulled a trigger i didn't like, my carry piece is an LC9
You've obviously never fired a Taurus PT111 millenium...:barf:

ritepath
October 22, 2011, 08:55 PM
I have a PT145....LOL you pull it to where it stops then pull it a little harder to make it go boom.

Oh and I don't mind the trigger on my M&P 9c but I can't shoot it for crap for some reason.

mike.h
October 22, 2011, 10:12 PM
thanks 97 guns, this could be my new signiture...'never really pulled a trigger i didn't like' ;)

22lr
October 22, 2011, 10:15 PM
I love the M&P triggers, the apex helps make it better but I can rock the stock one. Personally I hate the trigger blade in the Glocks. Its just my preference, not the gospel, just preference.

Frozen North
October 22, 2011, 10:17 PM
I guess we are all entitled to our opinions. I really don't like M&P triggers at all.

Hangingrock
October 23, 2011, 08:24 AM
Having both the S&W MP9 and Glock G17 there are the oblivious differences in trigger design. Having more experience with the Glock G17 I tended at first to have a preference for the Glock as opposed to the S&W. Firing both on a regular basis I’ve become accustomed to both trigger systems. I’m not into modifying the trigger systems of handguns be they semiautomatic pistol or double action revolvers that are dedicated for CCW.

We make decisions constantly be they good, bad, or indifferent. You’ll prosper or fail by your decisions but in the end no one promises you tomorrow.

MrWesson
October 23, 2011, 10:27 AM
The trigger on my M&P wasn't great when I bought it but after bout round 500 its better than ANY other striker fired pistol I have shot.

I own a G26 and have shot a friends SR9(IMO the worst) and XD.

GLOOB
October 24, 2011, 02:25 AM
The actual weight of a trigger pull is less important than crispness or consistency. I'd much rather have a 5-6 lb trigger that broke crisply at exactly the same pull weight everytime than a 3-4 lb trigger that was mushy and sometimes broke at 3 lbs and other times at 4 lbs.
I think there's more to it than that, even. I have SA pistols that I can't shoot well, despite having consistent and crisp triggers. The problem with them is the heavy weight plus the overtravel. It's very difficult to keep the sights still with that combination.

Apocalypse-Now
October 24, 2011, 03:50 AM
well if some guy on youtube says so, that's good enough for me.

NMPOPS
October 24, 2011, 06:22 AM
I like my NY1 trigger in my Glocks. Who is Hicock45 and what makes him an expert 'cept You Tube??

Sent from my Ally

Apocalypse-Now
October 24, 2011, 07:55 AM
I like my NY1 trigger in my Glocks. Who is Hicock45 and what makes him an expert 'cept You Tube??

He's far from an expert. he's a simply glock fan with a bunch of YouTube videos. He's a good shot, so he gives many the mistaken impression of authority.

HOOfan_1
October 24, 2011, 08:42 AM
I've never heard Hickok comment on the heaviness of a trigger...if anything he has tried to dismiss the fact that heavy triggers are to be scorned. He has done several videos shooting revolvers double action.

What I have heard him comment about is travel before break. He seems to like a short travel...the M&P seems to have a shorter travel. It is his opinion...no reason to let it shape yours, form your own opinion.

mgmorden
October 24, 2011, 09:26 AM
well if some guy on youtube says so, that's good enough for me.

There's a lot of goofy folks on Youtube, but Hickok ain't one of them. He's an excellent shot, knows his stuff, and is not a mall ninja type. He may be part of the "new media" movement, but he's more more akin to an established gun writer at this point.

Now, it may be that you don't trust any reviewers regardless of source, and that's fine, but don't lump Hickok in with the mall ninjas.

He's a good shot, so he gives many the mistaken impression of authority.

Yeah, he's well versed on firearms and obviously knows how to use them well . . . he can't possibly know what he's talking about :scrutiny:.

sturmgewehr
October 24, 2011, 09:48 AM
Hickok doesn't make his bias a secret. In nearly every video he produces, regardless of the subject matter, he's wearing Glock promotional items like hats, shirts, etc. He's a Glocker, through and through.

Does that mean you should dismiss his opinion? I don't think so. Sure, you can't expect an unbiased opinion from him but then who here isn't biased towards a particular brand or model of firearm that you shoot well? Hickok chooses to be honest about his bias and announces it in every video with his attire. He doesn't try to disclaim his affinity for Glock products in the slightest. It's admirable, IMHO. You know where you stand with his opinions because he's upfront about it.

As someone else mentioned, he's about as established as one can get in terms of being a gun writer. The guy owns, shoots and has experience with a wider spectrum of firearms than most posters here. That gives him a unique perspective on things, which means his opinion, while perhaps biased, is rooted in actual experience vs. what someone else may have read in a magazine or online.

ATLDave
October 24, 2011, 10:01 AM
I don't think Hickock45 holds himself out as an "expert." To the contrary, he seems to disclaim such titles on a regular basis. He simply makes observations. He acknowledges his own preferences and biases. He "shows his work" anytime he is taking an affirmative position. He would be the first to tell you, I think, not to rely blindly on anything he says. He may not qualify as an expert, but he is, IMO, an extremely credible witness/source of information.

BTW, I do not care for Glocks at all, though I respect them. Despite Hickock45's affinity for them, I still really enjoy his videos.

sturmgewehr
October 24, 2011, 10:04 AM
I agree ATLDave. I too believe he's a very credible source of information. He also is very entertaining to watch. He's funny, articulate, creative, and his videos are more fun to watch than most.

Apocalypse-Now
October 24, 2011, 06:39 PM
Yeah, he's well versed on firearms and obviously knows how to use them well . . . he can't possibly know what he's talking about .

prove it.

post a link to a video of his where he addresses something other than aesthetics, ergonomics, or basic features listed on a million websites.

i can tell you he's mentioned in at least one vid that he's "no expert". ;)


not ragging on the guy, but i don't consider him any type of authority or expert just because he films himself shooting.

mgmorden
October 24, 2011, 06:53 PM
prove it.

post a link to a video of his where he addresses something other than aesthetics, ergonomics, or basic features listed on a million websites.

i can tell you he's mentioned in at least one vid that he's "no expert".


not ragging on the guy, but i don't consider him any type of authority or expert just because he films himself shooting.

You seem to be posting conflicting info. Does he simply not comment on anything of note or is he incompetent?

Realistically, he does comment on a lot of stuff, but he also keeps it basic for a broad audience. He also doesn't merely film himself shooting - he proves time and again that he's darned good at it.

Your comments come off a bit like yelling that a racecar driving doesn't know what he's doing just because he wins races. The man is familiar with just about everything, and have proven on video that he can shoot - very well - just about anything he decides to pickup. Does he need to put a light on the front rail and talk about mall tactics before he knows what he's doing?

Apocalypse-Now
October 24, 2011, 07:26 PM
You seem to be posting conflicting info.

how so? :confused:

i posted that he has basic, and not expert knowledge of guns, and is a good shot.

jon_in_wv
October 24, 2011, 07:38 PM
My carry gun before the M&P 9C was a Keltec P11. If you want to feel a bad trigger, shoot one of those for a while. The M&P is a dream after that.

sturmgewehr
October 24, 2011, 11:09 PM
I've yet to meet anyone that was an "expert" regarding a wide variety of firearms. It would be impossible for most folks to do. I've meet subject matter experts that knew a lot about weapons like the AR15, 1911, AK, Glock, etc. To be an expert at something you need to study it, master it's use, know every possible nuance about that firearm. You can only do that with a finite number of weapons, certainly not all of them or even a large number of them.

No, Hickok isn't an expert with all firearms, but then I've yet to meet someone who was. That's a bit of a lofty expectation for anyone, including Hickok.

Skylerbone
October 24, 2011, 11:24 PM
I've met a few, they are a rare breed. The most notable was my best friend's father who was stationed in my hometown at the close of his military career as a small arms expert.

As has been mentioned however none of us claims to know Hickok personally and to some of us that makes all the difference.

reb27
October 25, 2011, 02:38 PM
Heck yeah, Hickok is an "expert." If you have to get rid of some rampaging, out of control lawnmowers, piloted by plastic lawn owls, he's the man to call to rid yourself of them!:)

smitty704
October 25, 2011, 03:30 PM
My M&P 45c has about 3000 rounds down the pipe and it is NICE! The trigger is just as nice as my g19 if not better. Yes, it is a little heavier then the glock, but it is a very "sweet" trigger. That gun is by far the most reliable, and sexy pistol I have seen in a while.

rcjohnson
October 25, 2011, 09:27 PM
I agree ATLDave. I too believe he's a very credible source of information. He also is very entertaining to watch. He's funny, articulate, creative, and his videos are more fun to watch than most.
This ^^^ and ATLDave's comment. Hickock45 is refreshingly honest in his reviews. Some people just can't handle that.

I also agree with the early comment that a consistent trigger is (far) more important than the trigger weight. It's like trying to juggle jello. blech! That may have been a factor in his review, or a difference in take up, creep, etc.

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