[Groundhawg]

Opinions please ...
if you paid for a custom rifle and it came with at least one major flaw...
just one.
would you say something to the smith ?
would you expect it to be corrected aka MADE RIGHT ?
WHAT would you do if he refused ?

[Rail Driver]

Yes, yes, and I would either dispute charges with my credit card company, file a small claims (or the relevant type) lawsuit, or both... All depending on the issue at hand, because what constitutes a major flaw for me may not be one for you and vice versa.

[REDMASTA]

Yes you didn't pay for a custom rifle with a flaw. Let him know right away, if he has any respect for his work I'm sure he'll fix it without issue. If he refuses depending on how you paid you can take it up with your credit card company. If you paid cash not much you can do unless you want to take him to small claims. Other than that you can also go to online and leave negative reviews on google, yelp, yellowpages, local section on online forums to hopefully warn others etc...

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

It actually happened to me!
I did much business with this person until they did that. That was the "last straw......".:banghead::cuss::fire:

Back then, I was young and dumb.:uhoh::(
Had it happened today, I would be spitting fire!:fire::evil:
They WOULD GIVE ME ALL MY MONEY BACK if it were to happen NOW instead of over 30 years ago.:fire::cuss::fire:

I refused to do ANY MORE business with this particular person.

If they refused, I guarantee they would have much less business from that one "shady" transaction! MUCH LESS!

[9mmepiphany]

If you want a really helpful answer, you're going to have to be more specific about the flaw.

Many folks have unrealistic expectations of handwork, for that reason alone it is usually wise to look into a craftsman's prior work. If something bothers you when you get you gun back, the best thing to do is to ask...not accuse...him about it. A professional will correct it, if it truly is a flaw.

A common complaint that I've seen is checkering. Machine checkering is usually flawless, handcheckering seldom is...you are actually paying for the flaws when you ask for handcheckering. The same applies to in-letting a barrel or action

[JHenry]

Yes, if your going to pay the extra money for a custom rifle and theres a major problem with, your entitled to a fix or a refund

[Mac's Precision]

9mm is right. We would need to have specific details about your complaint. A picture would go a long way to getting an honest opinion.

In my shop, I will address issues that arise provided that they are legitimate and a result of my work. Any professional should stand behind his work provided your complaint has merit and is something able to be addressed. For example, aftermarket stainless parts MIGHT not match the color of stainless on a Colt 1911. There can be a little variance in shade of grey or silver. That is not a flaw in my book as long as the part installed works 100% and was installed properly. If it is a cosmetic color thing then you might not have much to say there.

Help us understand what is going on...and we can be more effective in response.

[Tim the student]

I wouldn't accept a "major" flaw on a Stevens - but your definition of major may be different than mine.

If he refused, I'd dispute the charges if I paid by CC - if i paid by cash I'm not sure what I'd do.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Cosmetic or functional flaw? No flaws that directly affect the rifle's functioning should be accepted, of course. If only cosmetic, how bad? Something like a small ding or scratch in the stock or metal finish could have even happened during shipping and not left his shop in that condition.

[Bubbles]

What's the flaw? There's a big difference between a problem with the finish that could have been caused by the shipper, versus the thing won't hit a pie pan reliably at 100 yards.

[jonn5335]

If you are shelling out big bucks for a high quality custom rifle and you have shelled out the cash you should receive a high quality custom rifle cosmetic or not if I drop some major dollars on a rifle it better not have a scratch on it I would ask the SMiTH about it first very nicely and see if he makes it right which most self respecting smith's would if not tell him you want the rifle fixed or a refund don't take it too far too quick

[N003k]

Just jumping in here given I was just reading about this. It concerns a BP custom rifle, and apparently the maker agreed to refund MORE than the amount the OP was out on the deal, and the OP turned him down.

Post from our Feedback area (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=620114)

Link to gunloads.com concerning it. Post 28 is from the seller and has an image of the email response to the offer. (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=128475&page=2)

OP: It sucks what happened, but, honestly, if there's no chance of just getting it fixed, why not just ACCEPT the refund?

[Groundhawg]

over 1000 dollar muzzleloader
nose cap dented n crooked and gaps filled with wax and
a glue n sawdust patch to the butt stock where the bugs went in.
Pics of the stock in gunsmith section.
man made no attempt to make things right during the first ten attempts.
days later after reading online reviews he says he wants to make things right.
have not heard an apology nor do I think he is sincere to make it right.

[MachIVshooter]

From the perspective fo a business owner:

Sometimes customers are more of a pain than they're worth and need to be fired. Seeing the post on the other thread, this seems such a case.

Offer of a full refund effectively voids the contract for the rifle; You cannot force him to redo it. I've never had a customer badmouth me like you did him, but if I did, I'd do exactly what Stolzer did-give all their money back, write "VOID" on their invoice and refuse to do business with them in the future.

I'm not saying that turning out shoddy workmanship (if it really is) is a good business practice, nor is refusing to fix it. But offering a full refund was all he is legally obligated to do.

[mnrivrat]

The answer is yes - of course you should not pay for a major flaw.

In your case specificaly, more details would be needed because "major flaw" can mean a lot of things to different folks.

[shiftyer1]

IIIIFFF this is the same gun that NOO3k posted links to, I feel he did try to make it right with you. If this is a sentimental gun then tell him as much and maybe he can fix it 100x better at his cost. I did some searches on the man's work and service, yours is the only issue i've found.

[Psa1m144]

If the link posted by NOO3k is in fact the issue that you are talking about, I have to say that Stolzer has been more than fair no matter what the issue with the gun is.

If the link is incorrect then I ask you to be more specific about the issue because at this point its all conjecture and "he said she said."

[shiftyer1]

^^^^^what he said:)

[N003k]

I'll quite well apologize if this is another issue, but given the timing of it all, it just seems to be what you're most likely referring to. Once again, if that IS what you're referring to, he has been fair, even if it might have taken a bit or not. Take what you can get, and find someone else to make you a rifle, or just buy a high quality pre-built one. I get the feeling that if you don't take the refund, you're just going to be stuck with a rifle you don't like and wont use, and over a thousand dollars poorer.

[Groundhawg]

or restock it myself ...
and live with it.
never got the feeling a refund would be sent out in this case.
owned over 140 rifles and handguns ... ordered countless custom pieces and just
felt a refund would never be seen.
Not sure if I handled it 100% right but I am sure he could have done better.
point was if one just one flaw was cause enough for a rebuild n made right.

[shiftyer1]

He offered to refund his work, so you just assume he won't make good? You stated the price you were out and he beat it. Maybe after owning over 140 rifles and handguns and all them customs you've just brought yourself to unreasonable expectations?

[Tim the student]

If the link posted by NOO3k is in fact the issue that you are talking about, I have to say that Stolzer has been more than fair no matter what the issue with the gun is.

I agree. Judging from what I have read, I wouldn't hesitate to do business with Mr. Stolzer. He sounds like a stand up guy.

[Groundhawg]

OK ...

[Groundhawg]

STAND UP GUY ?
they use glue n sawdust to patch new stocks ...
sorry not buying that one.
my point was when he was initially contacted he would not rebuild it right.
and offered a refund not including anything for the barrel.
was not till days later , he made a higher refund offer.
I wanted the gun made right ... not a refund.
sorry I even asked.

[Flopsweat]

...
I wanted the gun made right ... not a refund.
...

Not your choice. If you refuse to accept his refund offer that's your problem.

You can tell a lot about a person by how they carry themselves in a conflict. Stolzer is looking like a stand-up guy. You, not so much. You're coming across like one of those self-absorbed teenagers on a reality show. You're not the only belle at the ball sweetheart.

[Groundhawg]

No just the cripple who got kicked again ...
no problem.
After awhile you get used to it.

[N003k]

I'm sorry Groundhawg, I'm not sure exactly what your situation is, nor what your state of health is, however you seem to indicate quite often you're in poor health, and I'm sorry that's the case. However your health really isn't relevant to the deal. You got a rifle, you were displeased with the work. You've been offered a refund for MORE than what you've paid for it, including the barrel you put towards it.

Given the way you act, and the fact you seem to be trying to damage this persons reputation over one thing that he seems to have made a good faith effort to make right, I'm not surprised that he is opting for a refund rather than a replacement, as without any evidence to the contrary, we're forced to assume the way you act now is how you always act.

In addition, as your health has nothing to do with the deal, nor the quality of the work, nor how it's worked out so far, it starts to seem like you're using it as a way to gain pity, or an excuse for the way you act. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, however all I have to go on is reading a few of the posts involved in this, including those I posted before.

You seem to be fixing the rifle yourself, great, I'm sure a lot of us would like to see it when you're completly done, however you had another option to make things right with the maker of the rifle, that you opted not to take, despite that it was a more than fair offer. Hopefully you realize that he really hasn't wronged you, and are able to move on from this.

[sugarmaker]

Hard to get perfection in a $1K gun, muzzleloader or otherwise. It's not in the perfection league - entry level is about $4K and climbs fast. Production guns cost $1K. I'd take the refund, save another few thousand, and get something high end. A $1K gun is one you can hunt with.

[Rshooter]

Wow, take the refund and let it go.

[trex1310]

No just the cripple who got kicked again

Boo hoo, I'm crying my eyes out. I'm a cripple too, but not in the
head. What has being a cripple got to do with anyting anyway?
The man offered you a refund. Either accept it or keep the rifle,
but quit whining about it and don't use your disability to get
sympathy for your position. It makes us other cripples look bad.

[rbernie]

Dupe.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=621388