Second Amendment defender on hunger strike--Francis Warin in Ohio


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Seminole
August 11, 2003, 06:06 PM
From the Toledo Blade (http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030810/NEWS08/108100094)

One man's lonely fight to bear arms
Weapons maker embraces jail to redefine Second Amendment
(THE BLADE/LORI KING)
Francis Warin is on a hunger strike to try to force authorities to release him from the Lucas County Jail.


By JOE MAHR
BLADE STAFF WRITER

Francis Warin had a nagging habit.

Nearly 30 years ago, he toted a submachine gun into Toledo's federal courthouse and made a simple demand: Arrest me.

He got his wish.

Two months ago, the Ottawa County man mailed a homemade gun and silencer to an assistant U.S. attorney. To ensure there was no confusion, he sent the package by certified mail, complete with his return address.

Warin again got his wish: He was arrested once more.

Now the 72-year-old gun-rights advocate is fighting to get out of the Lucas County Jail - staging a hunger strike to try to force authorities' hands.

The French immigrant insists his actions make sense. They're part of his on-again, off-again quest to challenge what he perceives as restrictions on the right to bear arms as covered by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

His accent still thick after 42 years in America, the balding professional weapons designer believes the courts have stripped the Second Amendment of its meaning, and he's willing to be the legal guinea pig to fix it.

"Civil cases don't go anyplace," Warrin told The Blade in an interview in jail. "So what are you left with?"

Never mind that Warin's tried before and failed. Never mind that nearly all courts, for six decades, have limited the power of the Second Amendment. Never mind that even some pro-gun advocates question Warin's tactics. Never mind he could now spend more than two years in a federal lockup.

Friends insist Warin isn't mentally ill or dangerous. They say he's just passionate - and persistent.

Back in the 1970s, he had to practically beg to be indicted.

And the latest indictment took four years of taunting: threatening to bring a bomb to the FBI, boasting of illegal silencers he had made, and even taking out a newspaper ad to question why he hadn't been indicted.

Getting out of jail, however, could be even harder.

Promising to follow the law if released before trial, Warin even enlisted the help of a family friend - the wife of Lucas County Domestic Relations Judge Norman Zemmelman - to vouch for his character in court.

"I'm as scared of weapons as anyone," said Connie Zemmelman, a local attorney. "But there is absolutely no question in my mind that he would never hurt anyone."

Prosecutors successfully argued before a local magistrate that Warin - the man who for years struggled to get arrested - is now too dangerous to let free.

"You just don't know what a person like this is capable of doing," said Tom Weldon, an assistant U.S. attorney Toledo. "If he's this desperate to gain attention, what's next?"

Birth of a crusader
At a London, Ont., gun show in 1970, a gun collector offered to sell two men a rare German machine gun. They agreed on a price, and decided to meet in Detroit to make the sale.

But as the two men crossed the U.S. border, federal Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents surrounded their car and arrested them. The "collector" turned out to be an undercover agent.

Warin was in that car as well. It was his two friends who were detained. He said he escaped arrest only because he happened to be out in the parking lot of the gun show when the undercover agent approached his friends.

While his friends weren't prosecuted, Warin said he became enraged at what he considered the trampling of his friends' Second Amendment rights.

So Warin began his quest.

By day, he worked designing weapons at the Port Clinton defense contractor ARES. By night, he researched case law and the debate surrounding the meaning of the amendment's 27 words: "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

To gun-control advocates, the amendment guarantees citizens the right to guns only if they're part of an organized state militia, like a National Guard.

But to gun-rights advocates, the amendment means anyone has the right to a gun - whether they?re in a militia or not.

It's a debate that has more at stake than intellectual fodder.

Because the gun-control "militia" interpretation has prevailed in the courts for more than half a century, it has been easier for lawmakers to expand the main battlefront over gun-control - with laws that range from weapons bans to firearm registration.

But a growing number of scholars and federal courts are adopting the pro-gun interpretation of the second amendment. If adopted universally, it could reshape the battlefront - with the courts likely overturning many gun-control laws, both sides have said.

That intellectual movement has happened, however, in spite of Warin.

In 1972, the mechanical engineer filed a class-action lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Toledo asking the federal court to revisit the interpretation of the Second Amendment. The court refused.

In 1974, the father of two young boys decided to engage in "civil disobedience" to call attention to his cause. He built his own "cheap" submachine gun and refused to pay the $200 registration tax.

After no one would arrest him, an inpatient Warin hauled the homemade machine gun to the ATF?s courthouse office. He expected ATF agents to handcuff him immediately.

"They said, 'OK. Go home. We'll call you,'" Warin recalled.

Finally, two months later, he complained about his plight in a story in The Blade, and Warin was soon indicted. He was fingerprinted, photographed, and sent home to await trial.

His case would be a legal backfire.

Aided by his then-attorney, Norman Zemmelman, Warin tried to prove his Second Amendment rights overshadowed the tax law. But he lost at both the district and appellate court.

Prosecutors and gun-control advocates across the county, like Dennis Henigan, cite that appellate opinion as some of the strongest judicial language ever written to limit the reach of the Second Amendment.

"Mr. Warin succeeded in making [case] law that is directly contrary to his point of view," said Mr. Henigan, legal director of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington.

After the Supreme Court refused to hear Warin's appeal, he ended up with a felony conviction on his record. But U.S. District Court Judge Don Young took pity on him.

"Imprisonment for Mr. Warin, however good it might make him feel, would be ruinous to his family," Judge Young said at the time.

The judge even waived the normal probation restriction on possessing weapons so Warin could keep his job. Warin considered it victory enough, but decades later he would decide to test the issue again in a way that would consume his golden years.

'Fighting a pillow'
A Lucas County corrections officer slowly wheels Warin into a visitors' room at the county jail. Partially slumped over in his wheelchair, Warin offers a weak smile and later admits he feels a "little bit woozy."

He's been refusing food for nearly all of his time in jail. He's down to about 113 pounds, from 160 pounds in May before he went to jail. Exhibiting the clinical detachment of a man of science, he's nonchalant about the prospect of being convicted and dying behind bars: "People die every day."

Warin almost died once before, he offers, when gangrene sent him into a coma at age 11. Besides nearly crippling him, the disease sent him on the path to America.

The only son of a French business executive and homemaker, Warin spent most of his childhood in the French colony of Morocco, dreaming of designing weapons. But in France, only military officers were allowed to design weapons, and Warin couldn't be in the military because of his disabled legs.

He became a welder in France and emigrated to America in 1961. By 1970, he landed a job at the upstart company ARES, nestled in the back of the Erie Industrial Park just west of Port Clinton.

Former co-worker Herb Roder, now president of ARES, recalled Warin as a "very talented" gun designer. And the 1974 court case made it clear to co-workers that Warin had strong convictions. His career didn't suffer from it.

By 1999, he had retired and was living on about $1,000 a month in Social Security payments. He tried to buy a gun - a time when background checks had been phased into law. He said he dutifully disclosed he was a felon, but thought Judge Young?s waiver would let him buy a gun. It didn't, and the quest resumed.

When federal authorities wouldn't give him an audience to discuss the matter, he told a Sandusky FBI agent that he could "bring a bomb to your place." Warin insisted the bomb would be inoperable, but agents still raided Warin?s tri-story home in Oak Harbor that he shares with a wife and a grown, disabled son. Agents confiscated 22 weapons, but didn't arrest Warin.

In neat, handwritten motions he signed with only his last name, Warin fought the seizure in civil court as a violation of his Second Amendment rights. But the judges sided with prosecutors, who said Judge Young's special waiver three decades ago applied only during Warin?s three-year probation period. Afterward, he was a regular felon with no right to guns.

Deciding again to get arrested, Warin learned of a Kansas man convicted a decade ago for making a homemade silencer. So he made the same kind of silencers and dropped them off to Oak Harbor police officers in 2001.

Nothing happened.

Six months later, a frustrated Warin ran a legal notice in a Port Clinton newspaper describing what he had done. He complained that "indictment should have been the consequence."

Nothing happened.

Warin grew impatient again.

"To tell you the truth, I was at the end of my rope," he recalled. "I was pushing the envelope, and still it was like fighting a pillow. I finally decided to go through the envelope."

The final battle
The package arrived in the U.S. Attorney's office in Toledo about 12:30 p.m. on a Monday. An employee signed for it, but immediately became suspicious of what could be inside.

A security officer X-rayed it, and it was eventually opened. Inside was a small, homemade gun capable of firing 22-caliber bullets. Attached was a cardboard silencer. A one-page letter was enclosed asking for "prosecution and return of property." It was signed "sincerely, Warin."

Prosecutors would follow at least one of his wishes.

Two days later, on May 21, agents arrested Warin on weapons charges and confiscated more than 46,000 rounds of ammunition, six hand grenades, six firearms, four handguns, and diagrams of firearms and silencers, according to court records.

And prosecutors went one step further than their predecessors three decades ago: They put him in jail and fought to keep him there.

"He's increasingly desperate to gain attention, and his behavior is desperate over the years," Mr. Weldon said. "In these times, with the heightened security alerts, why should we assume he's not a danger? We have to assume he is."

Friends disagree.

"Francis is a good person. He?s a compassionate person," Mr. Roder said. "He is not a crackpot. He has very strong convictions - whether you agree with him or not."

Warin's family declined to be interviewed for this story. Warin said his wife, who works in an Oak Harbor nursing home, hasn't been surprised by his actions: "She has been with me for 42 years."

He dreams of a full-fledged hearing on his case before the U.S. Supreme Court. The pro-gun interpretation has been adopted by a growing number of scholars and even Attorney General John Aschroft - making it more likely the high court could eventually step in.

But Warin's prosecution likely won't be that test case.

Ms. Zemmelman gives it a "zero" chance. So does noted gun-rights advocate Stephen Halbrook, a Virginia attorney who has fought in many high-profile gun cases.

He scoffs at Warin's tactics.

"I don't know of any responsible Second Amendment advocates who would suggest that anybody get arrested," he said.

Before being wheeled back to his cell, Warin said he has no regrets. His explanation comes with a simple shrug.

"I had to do what I had to do," he said.

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MicroBalrog
August 11, 2003, 06:14 PM
You know, if enough people did that, they would no longer be able to enforce their silly laws... but that will never happen.:(

Mark Tyson
August 11, 2003, 07:31 PM
I don't recommend his tactics- they're more than a little foolhardy if you ask me. But his spirit is commendable. There's a man who's willing to lay it all on the line. There's a guy with a real pair of cast iron cajones who will stand up for what he believes in. This tough old man has got some serious intestinal fortitude. You know, if everyone just ignored the law the way this guy was doing, they'd never be able to enforce these ridiculous laws on us. I wish we had more like him.

geekWithA.45
August 11, 2003, 07:48 PM
Then what are we all worried about?

Standing Wolf
August 11, 2003, 08:29 PM
Hmmm....If it's so tough to get arrested...
Then what are we all worried about?

I doubt we are, if only because there are millions of us law-abiding American citizens and only a few thousand individuals who'd seriously like to disarm us all.

geekWithA.45
August 12, 2003, 05:57 AM
I doubt we are, if only because there are millions of us law-abiding American citizens and only a few thousand individuals who'd seriously like to disarm us all.


The problem is that democracy only works for people who show up.

If they show up more than us, there's still plenty of folks who will shrug and hand them in saying "it's the law", to plenty of other folks who are also shrugging saying "I have my orders" as they feed pistols to presses.

What's going on in Australia AS WE SPEAK sickens me. Honest gunowners are in an inextricable trap, with no exit other than compliance or radical action.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35341

Carnitas
August 12, 2003, 03:28 PM
Think we could get Jim to do some of that stuff? ;)

DigitalWarrior
August 12, 2003, 03:29 PM
"He's increasingly desperate to gain attention, and his behavior is desperate over the years," Mr. Weldon said. "In these times, with the heightened security alerts, why should we assume he's not a danger? We have to assume he is."

This induces a violent rage within me. :fire:

DO NOT ASSUME!!! WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO ASSUME!!! YOU MAY NOT JUDGE A MAN BASED ON ACTIONS HE HAS NOT TAKEN YET!!!!!! THE MAN WHO SAID THIS IS
EVIL!!!!!!!!

MicroBalrog
August 12, 2003, 03:31 PM
We have to assume he is

Why? Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?:neener:

rock jock
August 12, 2003, 06:02 PM
Cuckoo-cuckoo.

MicroBalrog
August 12, 2003, 06:04 PM
Cuckoo-cuckoo.

Huh?:confused:

Kharn
August 12, 2003, 06:21 PM
Microbalrog:
Its a close impersonation the sound one of those clocks with the bird inside makes (the bird comes out and goes cuckoo-cuckoo every hour to mark the time), its a way of saying the guy's missing a few marbles.

Kharn

MicroBalrog
August 12, 2003, 06:24 PM
Kharn: I know that. The guy seems perfectly sane to me, though.

Mark Tyson
August 12, 2003, 06:33 PM
deleted

Cosmoline
August 12, 2003, 06:55 PM
It's civil disobedience. Maybe not as well planned as it should be, but it's certainly admirable nevertheless. And we must all be prepared to do it. Four million people demanding to be arrested would be quite a sight to behold.

rock jock
August 12, 2003, 07:18 PM
Sorry, but to be effective, acts of civil disobediance must be done with intelligence. Running headlong at the frontlines in a battle as a lone soldier without a leader or a unit to back you up may show some guts, but that is about all. The fight will continue and you will be but a reddish blot on the landscape. Knowing your enemy, planning effectively, working with a team, waiting until the right moment, and using your combined forces to maximize your firepower is a much better strategy. And, I would add, there are people who are working to do just that. Mr. Warin could have used his obvious passion to a much greater degree if had offered to join up and fight with others. But, he chose to go his own way. Maybe he's been watching too many "Army of One" commercials.

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 02:16 PM
One man's lonely fight to bear arms
By Joe Mahr



Francis Warin had a nagging habit.

Nearly 30 years ago, he toted a submachine gun into Toledo's federal courthouse and made a simple demand: Arrest me.

He got his wish.

Two months ago, the Ottawa County man mailed a homemade gun and silencer to an assistant U.S. attorney. To ensure there was no confusion, he sent the package by certified mail, complete with his return address.

Warin again got his wish: He was arrested once more.

Now the 72-year-old gun-rights advocate is fighting to get out of the Lucas County Jail - staging a hunger strike to try to force authorities' hands.

The French immigrant insists his actions make sense. They're part of his on-again, off-again quest to challenge what he perceives as restrictions on the right to bear arms as covered by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

His accent still thick after 42 years in America, the balding professional weapons designer believes the courts have stripped the Second Amendment of its meaning, and he's willing to be the legal guinea pig to fix it.

"Civil cases don't go anyplace," Warrin told The Blade in an interview in jail. "So what are you left with?"

Never mind that Warin's tried before and failed. Never mind that nearly all courts, for six decades, have limited the power of the Second Amendment. Never mind that even some pro-gun advocates question Warin's tactics. Never mind he could now spend more than two years in a federal lockup.

Friends insist Warin isn't mentally ill or dangerous. They say he's just passionate - and persistent.

Back in the 1970s, he had to practically beg to be indicted.

And the latest indictment took four years of taunting: threatening to bring a bomb to the FBI, boasting of illegal silencers he had made, and even taking out a newspaper ad to question why he hadn't been indicted.

Getting out of jail, however, could be even harder.

Promising to follow the law if released before trial, Warin even enlisted the help of a family friend - the wife of Lucas County Domestic Relations Judge Norman Zemmelman - to vouch for his character in court.

"I'm as scared of weapons as anyone," said Connie Zemmelman, a local attorney. "But there is absolutely no question in my mind that he would never hurt anyone."

Prosecutors successfully argued before a local magistrate that Warin - the man who for years struggled to get arrested - is now too dangerous to let free.

"You just don't know what a person like this is capable of doing," said Tom Weldon, an assistant U.S. attorney Toledo. "If he's this desperate to gain attention, what's next?"

Birth of a crusader
At a London, Ont., gun show in 1970, a gun collector offered to sell two men a rare German machine gun. They agreed on a price, and decided to meet in Detroit to make the sale.

But as the two men crossed the U.S. border, federal Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents surrounded their car and arrested them. The "collector" turned out to be an undercover agent.

Warin was in that car as well. It was his two friends who were detained. He said he escaped arrest only because he happened to be out in the parking lot of the gun show when the undercover agent approached his friends.

While his friends weren't prosecuted, Warin said he became enraged at what he considered the trampling of his friends' Second Amendment rights.

So Warin began his quest.

By day, he worked designing weapons at the Port Clinton defense contractor ARES. By night, he researched case law and the debate surrounding the meaning of the amendment's 27 words: "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

To gun-control advocates, the amendment guarantees citizens the right to guns only if they're part of an organized state militia, like a National Guard.

But to gun-rights advocates, the amendment means anyone has the right to a gun - whether they're in a militia or not.

It's a debate that has more at stake than intellectual fodder.

Because the gun-control "militia" interpretation has prevailed in the courts for more than half a century, it has been easier for lawmakers to expand the main battlefront over gun-control - with laws that range from weapons bans to firearm registration.

But a growing number of scholars and federal courts are adopting the pro-gun interpretation of the second amendment. If adopted universally, it could reshape the battlefront - with the courts likely overturning many gun-control laws, both sides have said.

That intellectual movement has happened, however, in spite of Warin.

In 1972, the mechanical engineer filed a class-action lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Toledo asking the federal court to revisit the interpretation of the Second Amendment. The court refused.

In 1974, the father of two young boys decided to engage in "civil disobedience" to call attention to his cause. He built his own "cheap" submachine gun and refused to pay the $200 registration tax.

After no one would arrest him, an inpatient Warin hauled the homemade machine gun to the ATF's courthouse office. He expected ATF agents to handcuff him immediately.

"They said, `OK. Go home. We'll call you,'" Warin recalled.

Finally, two months later, he complained about his plight in a story in The Blade, and Warin was soon indicted. He was fingerprinted, photographed, and sent home to await trial.

His case would be a legal backfire.

Aided by his then-attorney, Norman Zemmelman, Warin tried to prove his Second Amendment rights overshadowed the tax law. But he lost at both the district and appellate court.

Prosecutors and gun-control advocates across the county, like Dennis Henigan, cite that appellate opinion as some of the strongest judicial language ever written to limit the reach of the Second Amendment.

"Mr. Warin succeeded in making [case] law that is directly contrary to his point of view," said Mr. Henigan, legal director of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington.

After the Supreme Court refused to hear Warin's appeal, he ended up with a felony conviction on his record. But U.S. District Court Judge Don Young took pity on him.

"Imprisonment for Mr. Warin, however good it might make him feel, would be ruinous to his family," Judge Young said at the time.

The judge even waived the normal probation restriction on possessing weapons so Warin could keep his job. Warin considered it victory enough, but decades later he would decide to test the issue again in a way that would consume his golden years.

`Fighting a pillow'
A Lucas County corrections officer slowly wheels Warin into a visitors' room at the county jail. Partially slumped over in his wheelchair, Warin offers a weak smile and later admits he feels a "little bit woozy."

He's been refusing food for nearly all of his time in jail. He's down to about 113 pounds, from 160 pounds in May before he went to jail. Exhibiting the clinical detachment of a man of science, he's nonchalant about the prospect of being convicted and dying behind bars: "People die every day."

Warin almost died once before, he offers, when gangrene sent him into a coma at age 11. Besides nearly crippling him, the disease sent him on the path to America.

The only son of a French business executive and homemaker, Warin spent most of his childhood in the French colony of Morocco, dreaming of designing weapons. But in France, only military officers were allowed to design weapons, and Warin couldn't be in the military because of his disabled legs.

He became a welder in France and emigrated to America in 1961. By 1970, he landed a job at the upstart company ARES, nestled in the back of the Erie Industrial Park just west of Port Clinton.

Former co-worker Herb Roder, now president of ARES, recalled Warin as a "very talented" gun designer. And the 1974 court case made it clear to co-workers that Warin had strong convictions. His career didn't suffer from it.

By 1999, he had retired and was living on about $1,000 a month in Social Security payments. He tried to buy a gun - a time when background checks had been phased into law. He said he dutifully disclosed he was a felon, but thought Judge Young's waiver would let him buy a gun. It didn't, and the quest resumed.

When federal authorities wouldn't give him an audience to discuss the matter, he told a Sandusky FBI agent that he could "bring a bomb to your place." Warin insisted the bomb would be inoperable, but agents still raided Warin's tri-story home in Oak Harbor that he shares with a wife and a grown, disabled son. Agents confiscated 22 weapons, but didn't arrest Warin.

In neat, handwritten motions he signed with only his last name, Warin fought the seizure in civil court as a violation of his Second Amendment rights. But the judges sided with prosecutors, who said Judge Young's special waiver three decades ago applied only during Warin's three-year probation period. Afterward, he was a regular felon with no right to guns.

Deciding again to get arrested, Warin learned of a Kansas man convicted a decade ago for making a homemade silencer. So he made the same kind of silencers and dropped them off to Oak Harbor police officers in 2001.

Nothing happened.

Six months later, a frustrated Warin ran a legal notice in a Port Clinton newspaper describing what he had done. He complained that "indictment should have been the consequence."

Nothing happened.

Warin grew impatient again.

"To tell you the truth, I was at the end of my rope," he recalled. "I was pushing the envelope, and still it was like fighting a pillow. I finally decided to go through the envelope."

The final battle
The package arrived in the U.S. Attorney's office in Toledo about 12:30 p.m. on a Monday. An employee signed for it, but immediately became suspicious of what could be inside.

A security officer X-rayed it, and it was eventually opened. Inside was a small, homemade gun capable of firing 22-caliber bullets. Attached was a cardboard silencer. A one-page letter was enclosed asking for "prosecution and return of property." It was signed "sincerely, Warin."

Prosecutors would follow at least one of his wishes.

Two days later, on May 21, agents arrested Warin on weapons charges and confiscated more than 46,000 rounds of ammunition, six hand grenades, six firearms, four handguns, and diagrams of firearms and silencers, according to court records.

And prosecutors went one step further than their predecessors three decades ago: They put him in jail and fought to keep him there.

"He's increasingly desperate to gain attention, and his behavior is desperate over the years," Mr. Weldon said. "In these times, with the heightened security alerts, why should we assume he's not a danger? We have to assume he is."

Friends disagree.

"Francis is a good person. He's a compassionate person," Mr. Roder said. "He is not a crackpot. He has very strong convictions - whether you agree with him or not."

Warin's family declined to be interviewed for this story. Warin said his wife, who works in an Oak Harbor nursing home, hasn't been surprised by his actions: "She has been with me for 42 years."

He dreams of a full-fledged hearing on his case before the U.S. Supreme Court. The pro-gun interpretation has been adopted by a growing number of scholars and even Attorney General John Aschroft - making it more likely the high court could eventually step in.

But Warin's prosecution likely won't be that test case.

Ms. Zemmelman gives it a "zero" chance. So does noted gun-rights advocate Stephen Halbrook, a Virginia attorney who has fought in many high-profile gun cases.

He scoffs at Warin's tactics.

"I don't know of any responsible Second Amendment advocates who would suggest that anybody get arrested," he said.

Before being wheeled back to his cell, Warin said he has no regrets. His explanation comes with a simple shrug.

"I had to do what I had to do," he said.

Related Links:

Source: The Toledo Blade








I have long said that someone declaring a hunger strike could force a ruling out of the SCOTUS if they did it right. Will he? Time will tell.

Jeff White
January 29, 2004, 02:52 PM
I have long said that someone declaring a hunger strike could force a ruling out of the SCOTUS if they did it right. Will he? Time will tell.

Time will prove that this is a crazy tactic. He is starving himself to death for nothing.

Jeff

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 02:57 PM
Well, if I were him ("If I were a rich man"), I'd wait with the starvation thing till my SCOTUS brief got filed. Then I'd put them before the choice of starving a man to death or making a ruling.

Of course, I'm not him. I'm not in America, and I don't know if I would have the courage.

Nightfall
January 29, 2004, 02:57 PM
Micro, the SC has no problem letting people rot in jail because they don't want to bother simply stating that the 2nd means what it says. I hardly think a starving man will even get a raised eyebrow from them. :(

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 03:00 PM
What of the really, but REALLY bad PR, even amongst non-gunnies?

Don Gwinn
January 29, 2004, 03:00 PM
A Frenchman who gets it.

Sad to say, no, I don't think SCOTUS or anyone else who "counts" cares about a hunger strike. We shall see.

ChiefPilot
January 29, 2004, 03:34 PM
While I agree that his cause is a good one, his method reminds me of a child holding his breath until he gets what he wants. I don't think his tactics will prove very effective.

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 03:36 PM
Gandhi employed similar tactics IIRC.

IMHO he should have waited until his case got filed for SCOTUS or at least a Circuit court.

Jeff White
January 29, 2004, 04:13 PM
The American legal system won't be blackmailed. That is exactly how the court will look at those types of tactics. If the court doesn't think his case should be seen based on the merits of the case, the fact he's on a hunger strike won't sway them. It's cold, but his life is unimportant.

If the court did hearthe case to get him off hunger strike, what would prevent him from going on a hunger strike if they didn't rule the way he wanted them to? Would the court then be obligated to change the ruling?

I checked the Constitution. I don't see any provisions for hunger strikes granting access to any courts. The court can't grant cert based on those tactics. It would open them up to hearing all kinds of BS just because someone felt strong enough about it to go on a hunger strike.

Here the cause is good, but the tactics are flawed.....

Jeff

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 04:29 PM
You might be right, but that's not the way the "mushy middle" will see it.

If the image "They let a man starve just so they could dodge the issue" will stick, then this will be a few more nails in the coffin of gun control.

dischord
January 29, 2004, 04:29 PM
This is an old story from August: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=35259&highlight=Warin

Anyone know what's become of him?

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 04:31 PM
So did Simo Hayha...

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 04:36 PM
Is this the same guy that did this (http://www.guncite.com/court/fed/530f2d103.html) in 1976?

Erik
January 29, 2004, 04:45 PM
The courage of one's convictions is at times a powerful tool. Let's hope this is one of those times.

MicroBalrog
January 29, 2004, 04:48 PM
Can a mod merge the duplicates, please?

Bill Hook
January 29, 2004, 05:02 PM
Finally, a Frenchman with some balls.

How nuts could he be? He left France for the USA.:D

Kim
January 29, 2004, 07:19 PM
What I see wrong with the picture is if this was any other person in jail for civil disobedience he would have a group of civil riights lawyers fighting to get him out. However when it comes to the 2nd amendment nobody will show up. Which was harder a black woman sitting down on the front of a bus or what this guy has done? Of coarse that Black woman already had the lawyers of the ACLU waiting in the background to fight her fight with her. There was politicians standing up talking of the injustice. None for this man. He may seem like a fool but so have others who stood up for their rights in the past who are now heros.:(

Chris Rhines
January 29, 2004, 08:23 PM
This man is an inspiration for all of us who actually care about our rights.

- Chris

DrDremel
January 31, 2004, 03:16 PM
Well I know Francis personally. He is a very smart man. He is the only person I have ever met that the government is afraid of. He is his own lawyer, since he knows the subject better than any lawyer that he can afford since he is not rich. ATF does not like the fact that prison time does not scare him and trying to stretch a case out to bankrupt him will not work since he is not paying a lawyer. Francis talked to me about this after he did it. He told me he will not tell me anything before hand so that I can not be part of a conspiracy or an accessory. Francis is home on a tether. As if a man of his age with one leg that does not have thigh muscle function could get very far. Besides, he does not want to run, he has been trying to get to the supreme court about this issue for almost 20 years. Francis is a very smart designer, he also designed a device that will make a 1911a1 pistol fire at over 1000 rpm. This rapid fire devide was so good that ATF took him to court over it. Since it pushed your finger off the trigger until such time as the gun was in battery again, it was not a machinegun. This is not by an opinion letter but was the verdict in the court case. He is preparing his case right now. The silencer that he built and sent was an exact replica of a device that was built in another case. It mas made out of toilet paper, tape and kleenex. Francis picked this because it was eay to make and ridiculous that it would be considered a silencer. H

DrDremel
January 31, 2004, 03:25 PM
He took out an add in the paper there to declare that he had built it beacause in the past, when he tried to get arrested, they refused to. This was because they knew that he was determined to go to court and that no tactic would stall him or make him plead to any lesser charge. NRA of course would not help him from the beginning almost 18 years ago. Francis is a one man legal battle that the government does not know how to stop. Francis designed a floding machinegun, a .223-12gauge, a cannon, and various other gun related devices. It is too bad that no one else is willing to lay it on the line like he has. He is also the least threatening person you will ever meet. A soft spoken man, non-violent, very intelligent, and very dedicated to this. Over the years it is sad to hear of the ways in which he has been lied to and treated by the government.

MicroBalrog
February 2, 2004, 12:59 PM
Is there's anything the ordinary 2A supporter can do to help?

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