to single stack or not???


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bevans
October 27, 2011, 04:43 PM
Here is my situation.

I have a g26 and lcp that I use for ccw. I love both. I can conceal the g26 but the muzzle rise from it makes me nervous to even attempt shooting one handed at the range. Last range trip i started using the thumbs forward grip and it helped the muzzle flip alot, but agin I would hate to shoot it one handed. I have small hands.. with a one handed grip it feels as if the g26 could easily be ripped out of my hands in a struggle. I have gap floor plates, pearce extensions and flush mags they all shoot the same. So I have been considering selling it for a kahr cm9 or similar single stack.

I rented the cw9 at the range(only model they rent) and it shot ok but felt a little better in my hand. I just KNOW my glock is reliable and am not sold on kahr reliability. I also have looked at lc9, pf9 and pps but cant rent any(cant even find a pps to hold). Also I would like to stick with a short grip because if I carry with a pearce grip it prints. I dont realy want to sell the g26 but funds are low and I dont see the need for 2 similar ccw 9mm pistols.

Now I'm trying to decide what to do and could use some opinions.

Im thinking either keep the g26, or sell it and get kahr cm9 or sig p290 for ccw

or trade the g26 for a g19 and put a light on it (currently have p239 no rail)for nightstand duty and start saving for a new ccw 9mm.

I have a guy who wants to buy the 26 tomorrow so im trying to decide something tonight.

Thanks and sorry if this sounds scatter brained... too many options.

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Andrew Wyatt
October 27, 2011, 04:47 PM
Pick up a glock 19. The bigger handle on it makes it easier to shoot, and its not too large for carry.

I would not reccommend a kahr as your primary gun. for a backup, it's fine.

go take a pistol class from a good instructor.

gunsablazin
October 27, 2011, 05:27 PM
I recommend that you get a pistol that fits your hand, you may have to shoot with one hand or even left handed. The Glock is a very fine pistol no doubt, but if you are not comfortable with it, its not for you.

451 Detonics
October 27, 2011, 05:46 PM
Given the average length of the majority of gunfights and the low round count in them I feel perfectly well armed with a single stack, I carry my HK P7M8 quite often with my PF-9 used as a BUG. I have a Glock 19 as well but I am more accurate with the HK.

Shoot as many as you can then decide which fits your needs best...

forindooruseonly
October 27, 2011, 06:27 PM
I would not reccommend a kahr as your primary gun. for a backup, it's fine.

Just curious, but why?

Notoast
October 27, 2011, 06:30 PM
I have small hands and I put a talon grip on my G26 and that helped a lot, especially one handed with the stock mags. Two handed with thumbs forward it's great. It's basically a laser cut piece of skateboard tape but really gives good purchase on the grip and is simple to install. At first it was pretty abrasive but after 200-300 rounds the surface eased up and it has been going great for the past several thousand rounds. If your carry method has the grip against bare skin it's not what you want.

camsdaddy
October 27, 2011, 06:31 PM
I have a Glock 26 and a CM9 and a 3913 S&W. The later two are single stack 9's. I carry them all in different situations. I assume the 3913 is roughly the same size as the CW9 which is one size larger than the CM9. I shoot all three fairly accurate. I dont mean combat accurate I mean the are all more accurate than I am. I have had the 3913 for 10+ years and never a hiccup. Ive had the 26 for 4 ish years and the CM9 for a few months. I have shot the CM9 300-400 rounds. The only issue I have ever had was because there was build up on the transfer bar not allowing the trigger to reset. Well I have fixed that problem but Im not 100% confident as of yet. There are many who are. I will say this gun is far more accurate than it should be. Most days my 26 gets the nod. I dont know which I would keep if I could only have one. I would have a hard time choosing. I can say that I have shot the S&W and the Glock not just dirty but nasty and neither have missed a beat.

camsdaddy
October 27, 2011, 06:35 PM
Notoast I have that grip on my 26 as well. I have found that I only use the outside because I found the inside rubbed my skin and was rough on my finger during the draw. I found with just having one side it gives me super grip even when shooting in the South Ga heat and humidity.

97guns
October 27, 2011, 07:47 PM
there nothing as slick as a slim 9mm, hides away easily, hardly even kniow its there

Shawn Dodson
October 27, 2011, 08:09 PM
What load are you shooting that makes you nervous about the G26's muzzle flip? Are you planning to shoot this same load in a smaller pistol?

My carry guns are a Glock 19 and a Kahr PM-9. Which one I choose to carry depends on how I'm dressed.

Sgt_R
October 27, 2011, 08:27 PM
http://www.concealablecontrol.com/

These might look kindof gimmicky, but I have them on my G26 and they do help.

R

bevans
October 27, 2011, 08:49 PM
I have been shooting 115 gr FMJ WWB, 124 gr Winchester +p hp bonded and 115 gr blazer fmj. They all felt the same.

It might all be in my head... I havent attempted to shoot it one handed yet.

I use to have a glock 17 and after I got my carry permit I traded it for a 26. I went to the range and ran about 70 rounds thru it and noticed alot of muzzle flip compared to the 17. I would get thru half a mag and have to re grip. On the next range trip I ran 50 rounds thru it with the thumbs forward grip and it tamed the muzzle flip a good bit(didnt feel like it was gonna jump out of my hands).

But I still have two concerns,(1) with a one handed grip I can take my weak hand and easily roll the pistol out of my strong hand.... makes me nervous to think if there was a struggle and I only had a one handed grip the pistol could be taken from and used against me and (2) Maybe it was just a weak grip the first range trip but that muzzle flip would have been too much for a one handed grip.

Again it could all be mental... I hate going to my range its indoors, too many people, they have a glass window separating the pro shop from range so everyone can see you shoot, and I always feel nervous the entire time im there and cant concentrate on proper form... I have social anxiety it sucks. Anyway I cant decide if I should keep it, i love the reliability , ease of maintenance, 33 rd mags and im one of the few who actually like the way glocks look.

I got a guy who wants to give me $480 for my 26 (only 130 rounds thru it), with 3 mags, 2 holsters, gap and pearce floor plates.

bevans
October 27, 2011, 08:54 PM
oh yea, I always hear people saying the lcp is snappy and hard to shoot but to me with my smaller hands my lcp is so easy, no recoil at all and i dont use the pinky ext.. So that got me thinking maybe I should try a slim 9mm.

BossHogg
October 27, 2011, 11:04 PM
I think the single stacks are the way to go. the S&W 3913 is most excellant for CCW and overall range use.

I trust single stacks over double stacks for reliability.

Alberforth
October 28, 2011, 01:59 AM
Make.... decisions.... slowly....

Get training, work on your technique. Right now you're not in a great position to make judgments about these issues necessarily. You might be right in your thinking, but you might not.

CM9 may feel just as flippy to you as the G26, since the grip is about as long. I have a Kahr P9 'Covert (PM9 size grip) and I feel just a bit more flip shooting it than my G26--but I have long fingers and the Kahr grip is a little small for me.

You should try shooting one handed. I found that one-handed the whole arm helps absorb recoil instead of having two arms tending to focus the recoil into your wrists. But these issues all boil down to: get some good coaching. You can find lots of advice online about shooting technique but shooting well isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition.

Remllez
October 28, 2011, 01:45 PM
I don't know how small your hands are but you did say you shot a G-17 which isn't that small grip wise. You may not want to hear this but it will help you nonetheless, get a good stress ball or grip exerciser and use it every time you get a chance for at least a month.

Use it until you don't think you can do anymore then force yourself to do a couple more. Make sure to include your offhand as well, add a little 2 pound dumbbell and do wrist curls both underhand and overhand, all these exercises can be done while watching TV, reading, driving etc.

I guarantee your grip will feel rock solid and shooting 1 handed will be much easier than you ever thought possible. Incorporate dry firing into these exercises to build muscle memory and you should be good to go!!

Alberforth
October 28, 2011, 03:43 PM
Great advice. I used a Captains of Crush gripper to make big improvements in my grip and my shooting.

Andrew Wyatt
October 28, 2011, 04:14 PM
Just curious, but why?

The Kahr has some quirks, like needing to use the slide release to chamber a round (the rounds hang up on the slide release if you use the pull the slide to the rear method), and expensive magazines. It's also not really as reliable or as sturdy as larger guns.

With a backup gun, you don't really need to have a bunch of magazines, and you aren't going to be shooting it as often as you'll be shooting your primary gun.

bevans
October 28, 2011, 05:00 PM
thanks guys.

I'll definately try the stress ball. I put a hogue grip on the 17 and think that contributed alot. It wasnt as slippery and I had a full grip. I didnt want to put the hogue on the 26 because it would catch my shirt and ride up.

I ended up selling the 26 today I thought $480 was a good price and if I wanted I could buy another with that money.

Now, I think im going to order the Walther PPS .... buds has it for a good price and there is a $50 mail in rebate. So i should get it for around $540. But im still thinking about a LC9 and with the left over money buying a .22 rifle. Anyone have experience with these 2 models?

Shawn Dodson
October 28, 2011, 05:15 PM
The Kahr has some quirks, like needing to use the slide release to chamber a round (the rounds hang up on the slide release if you use the pull the slide to the rear method), and expensive magazines. It's also not really as reliable or as sturdy as larger guns.

I retract and release my Kahr PM-9 exactly as I do my Glock 19. I've never experienced a failure to feed with the PM-9. The only time I operate the slide lock on my pistols is when I want to lock open the slide.

I've been shooting & carrying the PM-9 for over 3 years and I've never had a problem with reliability either. It fires everytime I press the trigger. No failure to feed, no failure to extract, no failure to eject, no failures of any kind. I shoot Speer 124gr Gold Dot +P and 124gr FMJ handloads for training that are loaded to achieve the same velocity as the Gold Dot +P.

As for sturdiness - I've had zero issues with anything that might be in any way related to it somehow not being "sturdy".

Andrew Wyatt
October 28, 2011, 07:25 PM
My PM-9 has A malfunction every time i don't use the slide release, and it has issues lighting off some remington ammo.
Kahr recommends that you always use the slide release because of the issue i have. (page 16 of the manual)

Kahr recommends a recoil spring replacement every 500 rounds (which is on par with basically every other small gun)

I shoot whatever's cheaper at Walmart.

The gist of the post is that for primary weapon, a G19 is a better choice, because it doesn't have the design compromises of the PM-9 to make it a small gun.

JDGray
October 28, 2011, 07:50 PM
I would not reccommend a kahr as your primary gun. for a backup, it's fine.


8rds of 9mm, in a very controlable package, why not? Carry extra mags if it makes you feel better. I don't know one person who carries 2 guns, hard enough concealing one.

msparks
October 28, 2011, 09:40 PM
You might want to get to a gun shop where you can try various models out. Buying online without holding etc can be a mistake.

hickok45 does a good review of the walther pps. if that helps.

Good luck on your search.

Pilot
October 29, 2011, 06:24 AM
I 2nd the HK P7M8 or P7 PSP which is what I carry as an alternate to my PCR. The P7 is easy to shoot one handed. Its weight and low bore axis greatly reduce muzzle rise.

WVleo
October 29, 2011, 07:33 AM
I also have a PM9 and I find Your response rediculus ! I would not use bulk Remington ammo from a Wal-mart for CCW and I now just rack the slide to engage the first round in My pistol using WWB or any other ammo. All 4 of My mags have wolf springs and I did change the recoil springs after the first 1200 rounds. No issues with this weapon at all. Your experiences may be tyed to either Your individual gun ( if so send back to Kahr for a look ) , or You personal shooting habits. But I have red hundreds of Kahr owners not having issue with there weapon so I find Your statement very isolated. Glock 19 is a fine weapon if the grip angle fits Your shooting style, I myself just do not like the fit to My hand, others find it fits well and thereofre shoots well for them. I did handle a PPS and did not like the control locations Myself ( slide lock, mag release, trigger safety thing inside the trigger ) but others find it works for them. Check out a few pistols before buying a weapon that You intend to protect Yourself with . ...wvleo

The Lone Haranguer
October 29, 2011, 08:44 AM
A PM9 isn't going to have less felt recoil or muzzle rise/flip than a G26, simply because there is less grip to hold onto. Personally, I have a hard time improving on the combo you have now. If anything, perhaps you could add a G19 for a bigger gun. It is still quite compact for its 15+1 capacity, and if you have difficulty controlling its recoil, perhaps an objective look at your shooting technique is in order. :)

WvHiker
October 30, 2011, 12:11 AM
I also think you might try out a G19. You liked the 17, but the 26 was too small...it might be just right.

Andrew Wyatt
October 31, 2011, 01:56 PM
I also have a PM9 and I find Your response rediculus !
I would not use bulk Remington ammo from a Wal-mart for CCW and I now just rack the slide to engage the first round in My pistol using WWB or any other ammo. As quoted in my post above, the Kahr manual specifically tells you to use the slide release or malfunctions may result. As for go time ammo, i have a couple magazines of hornady XTP, 124 grain that sit in the magazines when i'm not shooting it. 9mm premium ammo is expensive.
No issues with this weapon at all. If you've had no issues with the weapon at all, you haven't shot it enough.
Your experiences may be tyed to either Your individual gun ( if so send back to Kahr for a look ) , or You personal shooting habits. The slide release and maintenance intervals are right out of the kahr manual, dude. You've managed to get one that performs better than kahr says it does.
But I have red hundreds of Kahr owners not having issue with there weapon so I find Your statement very isolated. My Comments are right out of the kahr manual. if that's isolated, i'd like to see your definition of widespread.

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