removing a thumb saftey?


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thefamcnaj
October 28, 2011, 12:12 PM
I just bought an xd 45 and love it, it taking the place of the G21 on the nightstand as soon as it proves itself. The only thing I don't like is the manual thumb saftey. I feel it unnecessary. I want it removed. Is this a bad idea? Will it affect the function of the gun? Can a good smithy remove this easily. Reason I'm asking is I may carry this gun in the winter, and I don't carry pistols with thumb safties.

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rcmodel
October 28, 2011, 12:21 PM
Yes it is a bad idea for legal reasons.

In the event you ever use the gun for SD, or someone else has an accident with it, you could be in deep dodo with a civil lawsuit.

I fail to see a problem with leaving it on the gun.
If you don't like safety's for some unknown reason, just don't use it.

rc

ku4hx
October 28, 2011, 12:28 PM
It's your property and you can make any changes you want to. But why try and make it into a Glock? If you prefer the Glock format stick with that.

Not to mention the possible legal issues of removing the safety to make it "more lethal". Brings to mind the Black Talon fiasco. Words do matter and making a gun "unsafe" can have unexpected consequences.

thefamcnaj
October 28, 2011, 01:47 PM
Well I like the glock and xd format equally well. Giving the slight edge to the xd's for ergo reasons. I just feel like the grip saftey and the double trigger are more than enough. Now knowing that there could possibly be legal issuse with removing the saftey I'll leave it alone. Thank you so much for the replies. I would have been making a potentially big error in judgement. I can always count on thr to come through.
Its not that I don't like safty's its just that the internal mecs are enough for me to feel safe.

2wheels
October 28, 2011, 03:01 PM
I wouldn't mess with the gun, if you're really set on an XD w/o a safety sell yours and buy one.

Telekinesis
October 28, 2011, 03:12 PM
I agree that you should leave the safety on the gun. Just carry with it in the "fire" position or sell your XD and buy one without a thumb safety.

tbutera2112
October 28, 2011, 03:38 PM
ive never even seen one with a manual thumb safety...didnt know they existed lol learn something new every day

i agree - try to trade it for one without MTS or sell it and buy a different one

log man
October 28, 2011, 10:55 PM
I do believe thumb safety is a misnomer for an XD, it does have a grip safety however.

LOG

Strykervet
October 28, 2011, 11:21 PM
Whatever you do, if you do decide to remove it, make dang sure you either replace it or restore it back to original and working order, or else disclose this and in writing in the bill of sale if you ever sell the piece.

That is very important.

I disabled the key locks on a couple Smith revolvers that had them. I filed down the pin on the flag so everything looks normal, they just don't work. I think it increases reliability due to inertia possibly engaging the lock during firing. It has happened, rare, but possible. I don't plan on ever selling them, but if I did, I'd disclose it or replace the flags with new ones.

But I agree, if you don't like the manual safety, just get a Glock (make sure it is a 3rd gen!). Those are what I use, I have six. I think of them as tools, not as works of firearms art. I always wear a G29 or 27, my wife carries a 17. We have a 21 for bedside. I have total confidence in them, more so than a revolver in fact. My wife's 17 is a 2gen with tons of rounds down the tube, one factory rebuild, and I've rebuilt it and tuned it over the years. The pistol was made in '85 I think, a police pistol, and rebuilt before or after Glock did that trade for .40 pistols and resold the old ones. It is not only accurate, it is reliable and a great pistol. I'd carry it myself. She has polished components to reduce trigger pull, but a NY2 to increase it to a smooth but stiff pull.

The reason we like them as defensive weapons, among other things, is the fact they have no external safeties to manipulate. All three are inside. To me, it is the pinnacle of defensive hardware. Lots of other good stuff out there, yes indeed, but if you want these kinds of features, don't modify an important part of another pistol, just get a Glock. Seriously.

thefamcnaj
October 28, 2011, 11:59 PM
But I agree, if you don't like the manual safety, just get a Glock (make sure it is a 3rd gen!).
I love glocks. I own 8 of them because they are what I cut my teeth on when I was a newbie. I was what you'd call a fanboy I guess. Now after time in the gun world I've branched out. As far as polys go I like the xd and glock platform all the same. I was just curious what you guys thought as it had never occured to me until this morning to remove the TS.I'm not real fond of letting go guns in the collection as the previous three times I did I regretted it. So I'm just going to buy one with out a thumb saftey. A used one in nice condition. XD's are pretty easy to find around here. I'm just thankful I asked this question here on thr before I just made the decision to do it, as I never even considered possible legal repercussions.

Lucky Derby
October 29, 2011, 12:02 AM
I do believe thumb safety is a misnomer for an XD, it does have a grip safety however.

LOG
The XD is available with a thumb safety in addition to the grip safety. This is an optional feature.

log man
October 29, 2011, 12:33 AM
The XD is available with a thumb safety in addition to the grip safety. This is an optional feature.

Yes, am aware of an aftermarket thumb safety for the Glock, and perhaps the XD, but not stock, I believe. Glock did make a special run for an Australian Police Dept. Haven't heard of SA offering a TS for the XD. Any links?

LOG

thefamcnaj
October 29, 2011, 12:57 AM
@ log man-The ts option is only available on the xd 45. Not sure about the xdm 45, mine did not have a ts. None of the other calibers in the xd series offer a ts. You can go to any gun shop and they'll order you one with or with out the ts, and there is no price differense. Cant provide any links but I'm sure its on SA's web site.

log man
October 29, 2011, 01:02 AM
@ log man-The ts option is only available on the xd 45. Not sure about the xdm 45, mine did not have a ts. None of the other calibers in the xd series offer a ts. You can go to any gun shop and they'll order you one with or with out the ts, and there is no price differense. Cant provide any links but I'm sure its on SA's web site.

Interesting. I can't find it though at the SA website. http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php

Just like to see the factory part, that's free.

LOG

MrCleanOK
October 29, 2011, 01:18 AM
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/54131

Googling "xd 45 thumb safety" would have solved the mystery for you.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

log man
October 29, 2011, 02:11 AM
You're right, but can't find it offered at the Springfield Website. http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php Curious.

LOG

ugaarguy
October 29, 2011, 02:50 AM
Logman, it IS on the SA website. You're not looking hard enough.
Click on "XD 4" Service Model" Click on the pull down menu "Select Model For Specs". It's in the list between "XD9613HCSP06 45 ACP BI-TONE" and "XD9701HCPS06 9MM V-10 PORTED, BLACK". It's a factory model.
It's even hidden in this post if you look a little deeper.

gvf
October 29, 2011, 03:26 AM
I just bought an xd 45 and love it, it taking the place of the G21 on the nightstand as soon as it proves itself. The only thing I don't like is the manual thumb saftey. I feel it unnecessary. I want it removed. Is this a bad idea? Will it affect the function of the gun? Can a good smithy remove this easily. Reason I'm asking is I may carry this gun in the winter, and I don't carry pistols with thumb safties.
How are you going to leave it on your night stand or CCW it? Cocked and UNlocked?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

ESPECIALLY at night when you can wake up groggy and grab a safety-disabled gun. Welcome to the world of Criminally Negligent Homicide.

David E
October 29, 2011, 03:37 AM
. Haven't heard of SA offering a TS for the XD. Any links?

LOG

It's available with or without. Try the www.Springfield-Armory.com link......:rolleyes:

OP, if you don't like thumb safeties, why did you buy the harder to find version that has one?

2wheels
October 29, 2011, 07:11 AM
You're right, but can't find it offered at the Springfield Website. http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php Curious.

LOG
I'll help ya out, go to Springfields website, look at the XDs, select the XD45, it's the very last model option on the drop down menu.

ugaarguy
October 29, 2011, 09:03 AM
How are you going to leave it on your night stand or CCW it? Cocked and UNlocked?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

ESPECIALLY at night when you can wake up groggy and grab a safety-disabled gun. Welcome to the world of Criminally Negligent Homicide.
Most XDs don't have a thumb safety, although they do all have a grip safety. It's not disabling the safety as much as it's changing it to a different factory configuration. All S&W certified M&P Armorers are trained to install & remove the thumb safety ob those pistols to fit user preference. I'm not sure if the XD thumb safety is removable at the Armorer level, but the fact that almost all XDs don't a thumb safety indicates that they're perfectly safe without said thumb safety.

In other words, you're jumping to conclusions, and blowing this way out of proportion gvf.

log man
October 29, 2011, 12:11 PM
I'll help ya out, go to Springfields website, look at the XDs, select the XD45, it's the very last model option on the drop down menu.

There it is! Now would be interested as to how this safety works, sear is blocked by the grip safety, so is the thumb safety redundant, or block the striker.

LOG

thefamcnaj
October 29, 2011, 01:42 PM
ESPECIALLY at night when you can wake up groggy and grab a safety-disabled gun. Welcome to the world of Criminally Negligent Homicide :)
I needed a good laugh. thank you. I sleep with glock 30 chamberd on the night stand or carry it in the winter with one in the pipe, no thumb saftey on it. Would this be considered criminal neglegent homocide? It was a simple question requiring a simple answer that was done quite well in post 6.
OP, if you don't like thumb safeties, why did you buy the harder to find version that has one?
Thats a fair question. I bought it because I only paid 300 dollars for it. Couldn't pass that up with or with out a ts.

ATLDave
October 29, 2011, 01:51 PM
Gadzooks, the cult of Glock has really taken hold when people are talking about removing safeties from guns that have them. Jeez, if you don't want to ever have the gun in "safe" mode, just don't flip the dang switch!

If you trust yourself to never, ever, ever accidentally pull the trigger, then why not trust yourself not to ever accidentally put on the safety? :confused:

W L Johnson
October 29, 2011, 06:53 PM
Just ignore it and get on with life. It's always amazed me how bent out of shape some people get over a control you don't have to use if you don't want to.

masterofchaos
October 29, 2011, 09:20 PM
thefamcnaj, I don't like safetys either so I bought a DAO Sig P250. No need to cock and lock...And to pull that trigger I will need to have enough sense (its a 5-6# I believe).

Maybe consider selling your XD for a XD version or another gun without a safety??

chicharrones
October 29, 2011, 11:26 PM
The suggestions to just leave the safety off are not good at all for people not trained to sweep off a safety. If a shooter is conditioned to aim and shoot a DA revolver or a Glock style firing system, then what happens when a gun with a manual safety is drawn under stress and the safety accidentally was flicked on?

Nothing. No bang right when you need it.

IMO, guns with manual safeties should be carried by people conditioned to carry those type of guns. People conditioned to use carry guns without manual safeties should stick to guns without manual safeties. Not counting range guns or guns in the collection, of course.

VBVAGUY
October 29, 2011, 11:38 PM
Here you go, I hope this helps. God Bless :)


http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=135

ATLDave
October 30, 2011, 12:37 AM
IMO, guns with manual safeties should be carried by people conditioned to carry those type of guns. People conditioned to use carry guns without manual safeties should stick to guns without manual safeties. Not counting range guns or guns in the collection, of course.

That sounds right, but, again I ask:

If you are so confident that you will never accidentally engage the "bang switch," why are you worried about accidentally engaging the safety? Are we to believe that your index finger is smart, but your thumb is retarded?

thefamcnaj
October 30, 2011, 01:40 AM
Are we to believe that your index finger is smart, but your thumb is retarded?:D Now that was funny I must say.
I don't hate the gun, I'm actually quite fond of it. I just won't cc it. It will be my range 45. I only paid 300 for it, its not that big of deal. I'll just keep carrying my g27 or 30 or the xdsc none of which have the ts.
When my wife bought me an sr40c as a gift, I took it to the range and was working on drawing the weapon. This was my first experience with a ts. I was all excited about possibly carrying it. I just didn't like having to sweep the saftey down.
That day I realized it just wasnt for me. One of my best friends who is a Leo and my ccw instructor both said if I was comforable in condition 1 WO a ts, then thats the way to go. I agree with them. Thats just me personaly, my shooting buddy is the opposite. No ts....no carry.
The xd will go on the, "shoot the crap out of but don't carry shelf" in the safe beside the 1911's:)

ugaarguy
October 30, 2011, 09:03 AM
If you are so confident that you will never accidentally engage the "bang switch," why are you worried about accidentally engaging the safety? Are we to believe that your index finger is smart, but your thumb is retarded?
The trigger is surrounded by a guard which prevents its accidental engagement. The safety lever left exposed on the side of the slide. While uncommon, they have been known to move from getting bumped, or rubbed as they move around throughout the day being carried. Some holsters reduce this risk, but not all. There are extremely few (if any at all) holsters suitable for carrying semi auto pistols which do not cover the sides of the trigger guard. If this doesn't make sense, please let me know what I need to clarify.

Mike J
October 30, 2011, 09:31 AM
Maybe you should try to find someone that would like to have one with a thumb safety that has one without it. Straight across trade & you both would be happy.

chicharrones
October 30, 2011, 01:33 PM
That sounds right, but, again I ask:

If you are so confident that you will never accidentally engage the "bang switch," why are you worried about accidentally engaging the safety? Are we to believe that your index finger is smart, but your thumb is retarded?

As I said, it is my opinion. If a person is conditioned to carry without a manual safety on the gun, why introduce an extra possibility of failure to fire the gun?

For people that use manual safeties on a daily carry basis, this obviously does not apply.

ATLDave
October 30, 2011, 02:57 PM
chicharrones, I would respond by asking: Why would I not introduce an additional element to prevent an ND? There are lots of documented ND's every year. How many guys lose a gunfight because they were fumbling with a safety? Seems like a risky solution to a low-risk (non-existent?) problem.

chicharrones
October 30, 2011, 03:40 PM
Guns with manual safeties can have negligent discharges as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

As long as the trigger is not pulled, a gun with a manual safety or a gun without a manual safety is unlikely to fire.

I am not making a point to convince people to carry a gun with or without a manual safety. People that carry make that decision themselves and train for the type of gun they choose. Either way works, but the operator of the gun should carry the gun type they are familiar with. This probably goes just as well for safeties that sweep up vs. safeties that sweep down, like a 1911 vs. a 92FS.

ATLDave
October 30, 2011, 03:49 PM
Guns with manual safeties can have negligent discharges as well.

Sure, but they require two mistakes.

chicharrones
October 31, 2011, 09:08 AM
No doubt, it takes two moves if the safety is on. Again, I am not discrediting the use of a manual safety.

My whole point from my first post is, I believe it to be unwise for a person conditioned/trained to carry only pistols without a manual safety to be advised to carry a manual safety gun by simply leaving leaving the manual safety in the off position.

In casual shooting and hunting, I've seen people that have a gun with a manual safety carry their guns without their safeties on as a practice. Considering the type of guns they were carrying (single action), I consider that very unsafe. I've seen those very people accustomed to leaving their safeties off, miss a shot because they went to pull the trigger on target and "somehow" the gun safety was on. They were conditioned to not sweep off a safety and missed a shot (hunting). That was their fault and misfortune.

If this were to happen to someone that carries concealed, the fault and misfortune could harm the shooter trained to carry a non-manual safety gun.

My belief is if a person is going to dedicated themselves to carrying a manual safety gun after years of carrying a non-manual safety gun, they would need to train for that gun. There is some quote out there about "reverting to your level of training under stress".

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