What would YOU have Done?


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Blain
January 30, 2004, 01:25 AM
Here is a thwarted robbery attempt from another board. I thought it was too good to pass up. The story really got me thinking about what I would do in a self defense situation. Ask yourselves, what would you do if you found yourself in the same situation as this gentleman?


http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=13627&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I live in a very rural area. The houses are on 5 acre lots. Not every lot has a house. My closest neighbor is 3 lots away. The lots are 330ftx660ft.

Lately this area has been getting a lot of robery's and a couple of home invasion robbery's too. An elderly couple were reciently killed when they found someone in their house.

Last night @ 11:55P I heard a truck coming up my dirt road. I'm the last house on the road. There's 5 signs that say "Private property" "Private road" etc. The last sign says "turn around here" and has an arrow pointing to a safe spot for lost people to turn around.

This truck ran through my closed gate and came right up to my front door! I grabbed my 12guage Hi-Standard and ran out side to see what all the racket was. I was only wearing my underwear.

Hiding behind my Jeep I yelled for them to leave. They (male voice) said "Ok, just a minute" I said "No now".

They backed down my driveway about 25 ft. Then came flying up the drive way again. I could see that it was an old 60's Dodge truck, no plates, 3 people in it and a ugly green.

I said "I thought you were leaving, I have a gun". They turned the truck around very slowly right in my driveway. Drove about 10 ft, stopped, put the trans in park, killed the engine and lights. They were no more than 30 ft away.

I said "You better f%$kin leave. I heard from the truck "Dude, were here lets just do it" another voice said "It looks like a BB gun to me".

I heard one of the doors open. You know the sound of an old door on an old truck, squeeks and the striker rubs the lock mechanism.

I said "You need to leave" and racked the gun. I heard another door open and a foot hitting the gravel driveway.

I raised the gun and fired a shot in the air about 20 ft to their right.

Heard both doors slam shut, the engine start and they drove off with the lights off and very slowly.

Turned the lights on about 75 ft down the road. I Called a neighbor that lives down the road and he saw the truck drive by his house.

I called the cops. Told them what happened. A cop called me and took a report over the phone and told me to call if I saw them again. (DUH)


My favorite response so far,
as soon as I heard them say "I think its a BB gun" I would have put a 1oz slug in their rear window and let god sort them out.
:D

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Mulliga
January 30, 2004, 01:35 AM
No way to verify if it's true, but I'd say the shotgunner acted responsibly. Even if those guys were thieves, I'm not sure the death penalty via 12 ga. is the right answer:evil: .

7.62FullMetalJacket
January 30, 2004, 01:35 AM
I think he handled it OK. Like Goldilocks.

In most states you must be in immediate danger and probably in the domicile to use lethal force.







OK, maybe I would have fired a little closer :evil:

Gewehr98
January 30, 2004, 01:36 AM
wait for it:







The One, The Only...





Ultimate Shotgun!:uhoh:






(Couldn't resist)

tc300mag1
January 30, 2004, 01:37 AM
I would have done what he did to be on the safe side course should have waited to rack the shotgun so they could hear it

Josey
January 30, 2004, 01:39 AM
I have been IN this SHTF scenario. I dumped a cylinder full of 180 gr Winchester Supreme 357 Magnum out of my wheelgun into the truck. The SO thought a truck with 6 357 Magnum holes in it would be easy to find. Not yet. In my area, the crime was arson by firebombing. No questions were asked. Sheriff interviewed me and I went on my way.

444
January 30, 2004, 01:42 AM
I wouldn't have gone out of the house, let alone in my underwear.
I would have stayed in the house. If they wanted to enter the house, it would have been a fatal mistake.

larry_minn
January 30, 2004, 01:43 AM
Well first he should really put on his pants. IMO you are at a psychological disadvantage when in just underware. (where do you put ammo/light/cell/etc?
I don't go outside without pants/shirt/shoes and gun/cell. Let them break in I was planning on putting new floor coverings on porch and kitchen. I would like to think in that situation (with minor mods for me) I would have lit them up to begin with then moved. With what was said about (we are here lets do this and them getting out of truck AFTER many warnings) I tend to think I would dump half a dozen warning shots from AR. ANY response other then leaving and rest of mag goes into truck.

S_O_Laban
January 30, 2004, 01:46 AM
This sounds like a "Fudd file" episode.

I can't imagine leaving the house undressed without looking out a window to see what's up first. :scrutiny:

This truck ran through my closed gate and came right up to my front door! I grabbed my 12guage Hi-Standard and ran out side to see what all the racket was. I was only wearing my underwear.

IMHO this is a major tactical error. Your legally in a lot better shape inside your house than out. Why step outside the best defensive stucture you have. I wonder.....:scrutiny:




edited for untactical grammar:D

Blain
January 30, 2004, 01:46 AM
Sounds like a perfect opportunity to use...
wait for it:







The One, The Only...





Ultimate Shotgun!:uhoh:


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=762538
The view they would have seen.

Black Majik
January 30, 2004, 01:50 AM
wait for it:







The One, The Only...





Ultimate Shotgun!






(Couldn't resist)

http://socalsportbikes.com/xmb/images/smilies/spit.gif

yayarx7
January 30, 2004, 02:15 AM
This is Texas, I would have put a "warning shot" into the truck. From everything I have garnered a warning shot is a tactically bad mistake, it rarely ever results in the cessation of anything, and then you are 1 round down. Nope, no warning shots here.

OTOH, You are not in jail, or dead, so you must have done the right thing.

BluesBear
January 30, 2004, 04:10 AM
I agree with S_O_Laban :rolleyes:

I doubt a single word of it is true.

HunterGatherer
January 30, 2004, 04:14 AM
I know what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't fire into the air. Warning shots are stupid Hollyperv stunts for starters. That aside, the gun will be just as loud if fired into the front lawn. Lot less chance of killing the neighbors too.

foghornl
January 30, 2004, 08:37 AM
Could have done things a bit better, perhaps, but I'm not about to MMQ (Monday Morning Quarterback) this thing. You and yours are all OK, so that is what counts.

That being said, MY warning shot consists of the "Snick." of the safety being set to 'Fire' mode

Legionnaire
January 30, 2004, 08:43 AM
If true, sounds like it worked out okay. But terrible tactics on the part of the homeowner. He made some bad assumptions about the nature of the threat and left a secure position ... in his underwear? :scrutiny:

dinosaur
January 30, 2004, 08:46 AM
This one happened last week not too far from me. It was in the local paper (Hazleton Standard Speaker) but since I`m cutnpaste handicapped, I couldn`t find it.

Guy goes up his driveway and sees a car with 3 males parked behind the house. They`re strangers (supposedly) and they`re doing a joint or booze. He challenges them and one pulls a knife and approaches the owner. The owner goes to his car gets a 9mm and fires a warning shot into the ground. This enrages the guy with the knife and he charges. Ok, wait for it, the clown with the gun throws it away and and goes hand to hand, er knife. :what: He gets stabbed but luckily not too bad. The cops collar the 3 mutts later.

Alan Fud
January 30, 2004, 11:40 AM
Posted by S_O_Laban: ... This sounds like a "Fudd file" episode ... Yep, definitely one for the "Fud Files" ;)

I question the decision to go outside. If the three men refused to leave or thought that the home owner was bluffy and he was forced to shoot them, I would think that he would be on shakey legal ground since MOST state require you to flee before engaging deadly force unless you are in your home. Don't think the defense of standing your ground extends outside of your house onto your property but I could be wrong.

444
January 30, 2004, 11:45 AM
I don't understand the whole thing about leaving the house when you hear a noise or suspect someone is outside. That seems to be a common theme in these stories.
Home Invasion Tip of the Month: Let one guy walk into the crime scene and hide near the door. When we pull up in the truck, the home owner will immediately leave cover/concealment/light/extra ammo and weapons/the phone/his family............................. no matter how he is dressed to see what the noise is. You can then either club him in the back of the head, shoot him in the back, or just ignore him and walk right into the door he came out of, since you know it isn't locked. In fact, you can be rounding up the loot in the house while Bubba engages him in a pissing match outside in the street. He is willing to stay there all night exchanging threats with Bubba. Works everytime just like Pavlov's Dogs.

JamisJockey
January 30, 2004, 12:18 PM
first problem,
Underwear isn't tactical enough. I would have had to bug out to the house, get my CQB gear on, check my comm with homebase, check my loadout of 200rounds, 2 pistols, 50 rounds each, and maybe my MBR with 300 rounds.
Then, I would have mall ninja'd back to the front yard, layed down a base of fire, and probably thown a flashbang or two...
:p







Firstly, 444 is right. From a non-ninja Tactical point of view, running outside exposes you to a multitude of unknown dangers. Unfortunately, staying inside could force escalation. If they come through the door you pretty much have to shoot them. Outside, you might stand a chance of scaring them off. However, I'd stay inside, and I never go outside to investigate noises.
If the account is real, the homeowner acted right, IMHO. Although, I think its a bb gun would have probably been where I would have launched the warning shot into the quarter panel of the truck to 'mark it'.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
January 30, 2004, 12:40 PM
To continue the "This is Texas" school of thought...

I prefer at least an 800 meter security zone around a residence. I love wide open spaces. My wife refers to it as 'the kill zone'. She's after me to put the classic sign up on the gate regarding aiming points and precision riflery.

Lost? Need directions? Go to the C-store down the road.
Leave your vehicle and walk up toward the house where I can see you if you can't ring the intercom on the gate.

Man but I love this place.

Regards,
Rabbit.

HankB
January 30, 2004, 12:41 PM
staying inside could force escalation. No, staying inside doesn't "force" someone else to do anything - you are NOT responsible for anyone else's behavior. What staying inside DOES do is guarantee that any escalation will be THEIRS, which would look good if things come to a civil suit from their surviving kin.However, I'd stay inside Which, given circumstances as described, would be the smartest thing to do.

444
January 30, 2004, 12:43 PM
Here is a great senario. Bad Guy gets out and walks to house - hides in shadows toward rear of house. Bubba drives truck into driveway. Homeowner immediately runs outside in his underwear like a moth to a flame. Like a gravitational pull, it is irresistable to him. This is obvious because homeowner can't give up every tactical advantage fast enough, he can't even wait long enough to get dressed. He is like an alcoholic that hasn't had a drink for three days running after a bottle. While homeowners full attention is focused on the truck and Bubba (again irresistable to homeowners everywhere), Bad Guy in shadows takes the opportunity to walk into the house, and LOCKs homeowner outside in his underwear. He then has his way with the wife, throws some loot into his sack and hops out the window on the other side of the house while homeowner is torn between beating on the door and exchanging idle threats with Bubba. Any time Bubba thinks homeowner is getting too distracted with the house, he does something different like moving the truck or turning the headlights on or off. Homeowner responds like the puppet on a string that he is because homeowner reacts to Bubba, not the other way around. Bubba is dictating the course of events. Bubba can play with him all night if he wants, or kill him at will because puppet/homeowner is in front of the "curtain of light" provided by the trucks headlights; puppet/homeowner can't see what Bubba is doing behind the curtain of light.
If homeowner ever starts actually thinking about his situation he eventually realizes that not only are his family not safe, he isn't either. He thought he was tough with the shotgun, but now realizes that he has Bubba in front of him behind hard cover (the truck), he has another guy behind him in the house, and that guy came from behind him - who else is behind him ?
This is commonly known as walking into an ambush.

12 Volt Man
January 30, 2004, 01:08 PM
I think I would have taken off my underwear so that when I crapped my pants there would be less of a mess. :D
Anyway if this is a true story, he protected his house and family well. I think that with legal issues, if he had shot one of them he would have been better off to wait inside. It would have been a fatal mistake for them to come inside his house. It would suck bigtime to be 3 against one if all three were armed.

Alan Fud
January 30, 2004, 01:08 PM
444, very good points. Another reason why discussing "hypotheticals" is beneficial.

JamisJockey
January 30, 2004, 02:33 PM
DOES do is guarantee that any escalation will be THEIRS,
Very good point. Until they come through the door, there is no escalation. And, you get the chance to arm yourself to the teeth, and you know the layout of your home, thus ensuing a tactical advantage.

If I lived on the dirt road as described, I'd probably install flood lighting, switchable from the inside. Light up the neighborhood, call the police, and release the hounds!
:neener:

Daedalus
January 30, 2004, 04:18 PM
I think I would have chosen something in the nature of an Evil Black Rifle in this situation and done all my talking from the upstairs window through my "15$ garage sale impulse buy" megaphone.

We would discuss the terms of their hasty retreat first with the megaphone, then with a hail of 7.62x39 if negotiations go sour.

ksnecktieman
January 30, 2004, 10:36 PM
#1 If there is a warning shot, it should mark their truck, the tailgate would be good.

#2 They came in through a "closed gate"? That is the time to dial 911.

#3 I agree, he should have dealt with it from inside the house. Standing beside the door, not directly in front of it.

#4 Was there area lights? Why not? There should have been, either motion detecting, or with a switch. Illumination may have scared them away.

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