What's your opinion on ccw for a woman?


PDA






Sammenspiel
November 2, 2011, 09:36 PM
Greetings all,

My mother recently decided that she wants to get a handgun to carry when she is out, now that I'm the last of the children to go off to college, and my father has been traveling frequently for work lately. I think that it is a good choice, even though we certainly do not live in a bad area by any means. She just doesn't want to feel hesitant to go out alone.

The thing that I'm not sure about is that she was against having a handgun in the house for the longest time. I have quite a few long guns which she has no problem with, but I think she is uneasy about small firearms because she thinks they are more accident-prone. I told her it's like any other gun, treat it with respect and it won't go bang unless you want it to. I believe she does plan on attending handgun safety and self defense courses so I think she will be able to feel more comfortable with it, and she will get a good amount of practice since she hasn't really been shooting much. Alrighty sorry for the babble, I just want to know your opinion on which type of handgun we should be looking for. My mother is around 110 pounds i think, she's small. I'm just thinking a compact 40 S&W with a decent magazine capacity that won't break the bank. Then again I'm not 21, so handguns haven't been my focus. Any help will be really appreciated, thanks everyone.

*EDIT*
I've noticed by the comments that a good portion of people think that I'm trying to pick my mom's gun for her. This isn't the case, as I have said I am not 21 and don't really know much about what exactly to look for in a handgun, and she is the one who's going to be carrying. I made the suggestion of a 40s&w from what I've heard people discussing in the shop, I guess I was wrong about it. I'm just asking for suggestions to get at least a starting point, not criticism. I guess I miscommunicated my intentions, apologies folks. :rolleyes:

If you enjoyed reading about "What's your opinion on ccw for a woman?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Bobson
November 2, 2011, 09:42 PM
Most people are going to tell you to have her go rent some handguns and let her pick.

I say she needs to focus on one of two things: Easy concealability, or light recoil. You can't have the best of both worlds, but with patience, you can find a happy medium.

IMO:

Best of concealability - S&W 642 (.38+P)
Best of low recoil - CZ P-01 (9mm)
Happy medium - Glock 23 (40)

smalls
November 2, 2011, 09:47 PM
There are numerous threads on picking guns for other people. They all say "don't". As in, let HER choose. Take her to a gunshop, go rent and shootbsome different guns in different calibers. How do you know she likes .40 s&w?

TexasRifleman
November 2, 2011, 09:51 PM
Yep, go rent guns and let her try many. And don't stick with autos, she may very well prefer a revolver. Don't let your preferences put her in the wrong gun.

Dnaltrop
November 2, 2011, 10:04 PM
Ask your mom for a trip to the gun store, but she has to grope for herself. Some women don't mind the .40, some get skittish with a .22.


One thing you can help her consider is how she's going to carry, a gun you withdraw from the folds of a handbag has more of a chance to snag than if your mom is the sort to strap on a belt and wear a full size anything holstered inside the waistband.

If she's uncomfortable with the act of actually carrying once she has it... the odds are greater that she won't have it when she needs it most.

Skribs
November 2, 2011, 10:06 PM
CCW for a woman is same as CCW for a man. Find a gun that:

*Fits the user's hands
*Has at least enough power to reliably penetrate to the target's vitals with the defense load of your choice
*Is not so heavy on recoil that the user will develop a flinch with the defense load of your choice
*Which will fit in the location in which the user decides to carry with as little printing as possible.
*Is reliable enough to trust to go bang when you pull the trigger, and will not go bang when you do not pull the trigger.

Other things, such as whether or not you want a manual safety, the capacity you want, caliber choice (keeping in mind minimum power and maximum recoil thresholds), are up to the user.

All of these seem to apply to both men and women. I don't see why "for women" should be considered, unless you're specifically looking for a gun that will conceal in a purse or under women's attire.

Nushif
November 2, 2011, 11:28 PM
All of these seem to apply to both men and women. I don't see why "for women" should be considered, unless you're specifically looking for a gun that will conceal in a purse or under women's attire.

This. Simple as that.

Mr.Blue
November 2, 2011, 11:34 PM
I'd stay away from .40 and steer her towards 9mm. Most people feel that it takes more time to get proficient with .40 due to the "snappy recoil". Today's 9mm loads are very effective. They also are easier on the wallet and recoil is lower.

Depending on where she will carry the gun on her person, different guns fit the bill. For overall purposes I love my S&W M&P 9c. It holds 12+1 and has great ergonomics for most people. The adjustable palmswells really make the gun comfortable for most hands.

I also like the CZ P-01, but it may be too heavy for some to carry around. That said, it's all steel and can be used to crack someone over the head in a pinch.

bigfatdave
November 2, 2011, 11:44 PM
YOU and she should read everything at
http://corneredcat.com/
and
http://womenofcaliber.wordpress.com/

And stop even thinking about picking out a gun for her.
Your job is to get her the biggest pile of guns you can, and help her note what she does and doesn't like about each gun. You should go with her to some classes, as a student ... choose classes with range time, you're likely to find friendly people willing to let her run a few rounds downrange through their guns at such classes.
Hell, if you're near me, I might be able to provide some example guns and open up the range, although my schedule sucks right now ... if you posted a location someone might make a similar offer and/or suggest a place/person to get classes.

ugaarguy
November 2, 2011, 11:50 PM
I believe she does plan on attending handgun safety and self defense courses so I think she will be able to feel more comfortable with it, and she will get a good amount of practice since she hasn't really been shooting much.
Keep encouraging her to take both classes. After completing both of those I'm confident that she'll have a good foundation on which to choose her own carry gun.

KAS1981
November 3, 2011, 12:14 AM
My opinion on women carrying concealed is, find a gun you can shoot & carry well, buy it, and practice practice practice.

wrench
November 3, 2011, 12:36 AM
What Skribs said, I've never heard it stated any better.

jeepmor
November 3, 2011, 12:46 AM
Let her pick based on feel and natural pointing of the gun.

TheHighRoadDude
November 3, 2011, 12:48 AM
^^The better question is what is she doing out of the kitchen!?!? :neener:



Just joking, I agree with everyone else. Rent some at a range and see what feels natural for her.

Cheers! Sorry for the joke couldn't help myself :rolleyes:

ku4hx
November 3, 2011, 03:55 AM
When someone tells me they want to get a gun for "self defense" and ask my opinion, I always ask them the same thing. Are you prepared to take a human life and in doing so deprive someone of a son, daughter, father, mother, cousin, best friend or otherwise loved one. If they hesitate, I tell them to get a baseball bat.

Too many long term non gun owners who have asked me about a gun, want one for the intimidation factor and not to actually shoot, want the cheapest gun they can get, want it to have no recoil, be essentially costless to shoot and require little to no training to learn how to be accurate with it. Not all are that way, but start talking about a .22 to learn on and then moving up to a combat weapon and they change their tune right quick when they learn of even the minimum time and expense I think it will take them to get up to speed.

Some people are different; my wife is one. She would shoot and knew how to handle a gun but just wasn't "into" the self defense aspect. Then one day she had to repel an 11:00AM front door crashing home intruder with the Glock 23 in her bedside table. Just recently she's bought a Glock model 26, a .22 rifle, a 20 GA shotgun (she's taking skeet and trap lessons) and a Ruger Mark III Target .22 auto. With the Mark III she entered her first woman's only pistol match two weeks ago and won!

My wife has bought into the program but it's taken years to get there. I'm a happy man for a variety of reason.

mrgreentie
November 3, 2011, 08:57 AM
Hands down, without a doubt, I'd suggest a Smith & Wesson 642 (http://gunzoo.com/gun/Smith--Wesson/Model-642)

...

2wheels
November 3, 2011, 09:11 AM
You'll have to find something she can handle well, and isn't afraid to practice with. I think a 9mm or .38 Special would be ideal (maybe a larger .380?), I've met plenty of women who can handle bigger calibers, but judging by the size of your mother she might not enjoy shooting a .45 or even a compact .40.

Honestly, if my mother carried I would be OK even if all she was willing to carry was a .22LR, at least she's willing to carry something.

fpdsniper
November 3, 2011, 09:13 AM
"When someone tells me they want to get a gun for "self defense" and ask my opinion, I always ask them the same thing. Are you prepared to take a human life and in doing so deprive someone of a son, daughter, father, mother, cousin, best friend or otherwise loved one. If they hesitate, I tell them to get a baseball bat."

While I respect your opinion on this, I have to disagree with part of it. Throwing in the "son, daughter, father, mother, etc." spin on protecting your life puts added stress to an already stressful decision. You're also putting a human face on an inhumane person. (attacker) To me, it's like taking someone that has decided to not be a victim, and talking them out of it. Better to help her establish a mind set of not being a victim, and supporting it. As far as which pistol to get, she should try as many as feasible to make he choice. However, I'd make sure she tried out a Kahr CM9 or PM9. Easy to conceal, lightweight, accurate, reliable, and easy to shoot.

PabloJ
November 3, 2011, 09:20 AM
Greetings all,

My mother recently decided that she wants to get a handgun to carry when she is out, now that I'm the last of the children to go off to college, and my father has been traveling frequently for work lately. I think that it is a good choice, even though we certainly do not live in a bad area by any means. She just doesn't want to feel hesitant to go out alone.

The thing that I'm not sure about is that she was against having a handgun in the house for the longest time. I have quite a few long guns which she has no problem with, but I think she is uneasy about small firearms because she thinks they are more accident-prone. I told her it's like any other gun, treat it with respect and it won't go bang unless you want it to. I believe she does plan on attending handgun safety and self defense courses so I think she will be able to feel more comfortable with it, and she will get a good amount of practice since she hasn't really been shooting much. Alrighty sorry for the babble, I just want to know your opinion on which type of handgun we should be looking for. My mother is around 110 pounds i think, she's small. I'm just thinking a compact 40 S&W with a decent magazine capacity that won't break the bank. Then again I'm not 21, so handguns haven't been my focus. Any help will be really appreciated, thanks everyone.
Ole' model S&W 640 in .38.

harmon rabb
November 3, 2011, 09:26 AM
a compact 40s&w for someone's first gun? especially a 110lb woman? really? jesus christ.

Skribs
November 3, 2011, 11:01 AM
My first gun was the smaller of the two XDm .40s (before they came out with the Compact), and at the time I was a 135-pound 22-year-old.

For those saying "you shouldn't pick the gun for her", I've actually been to the range with my Mom and knew she liked revolvers. When my Dad and I went to get her a birthday present, we picked one based on how easy it would be for my Mom to grip it, and got her an SP101. So sometimes it can work out, so long as you know what she likes.

beatledog7
November 3, 2011, 11:58 AM
Her opinion matters way more than ours.

The Lone Haranguer
November 3, 2011, 12:50 PM
The thing that I'm not sure about is that she was against having a handgun in the house for the longest time.
With such a long-held attitude, perhaps she should ask herself a more fundamental question. If the moment should come when the gun has to be used, can she?

W.E.G.
November 3, 2011, 01:06 PM
a compact 40s&w for someone's first gun? especially a 110lb woman? really? jesus christ.

That about sums it up.

Note the OP's post count.
Troll?

Fastcast
November 3, 2011, 01:20 PM
I don't believe a lady of her age and firearm experience is going to like or feel comfortable with a semi-auto or the .40 cal.

I'd have her look at a 38sp......S&W 642 or Ruger LCR......Ultimately it's her decision but nothing wrong with you directing her, as long as it's in the appropriate direction and I don't believe a semi-auto .40 cal is the way to go....IMO

3KillerBs
November 3, 2011, 06:53 PM
I cannot say enough about the quality of Kathy Jackson's advice at www.corneredcat.com

I've never shot .40 caliber but I see no intrinsic problems with a woman shooting any caliber, no matter how powerful, from a gun that fits her hand and which she has proven capable of controlling.

There is, however, an extremely wide selection of 9mm guns available to fit any size hand and to fit almost any need for capacity, concealability, weight or lack thereof, etc. so a 9mm is probably a good place to begin unless she shows a strong preference for revolvers.

For a first gun I would recommend against anything VERY small or VERY light since small, light guns are notoriously difficult for a beginner to shoot well and its discouraging to shoot badly.

Since she has, in the past, been highly concerned about accidents she might appreciate one of the guns with the multiple types of redundant safety -- regular, grip, trigger, ... .

3KillerBs
November 3, 2011, 07:11 PM
...

All of these seem to apply to both men and women. I don't see why "for women" should be considered, unless you're specifically looking for a gun that will conceal in a purse or under women's attire.

Well, ...,

We woman DO have to conceal under women's attire. And you've probably noticed that our bodies are not the same shape as men's bodies. That does make a difference. ;) :D

But on a related note, I wish people would not hear the word "woman" and automatically think "purse carry".

There are so many times when its a major social faux pas to refuse to put down your purse that, IMO, purse carry should be considered, like dayplanner carry and briefcase carry, a specialized means of dealing with a situation where no other option is viable, rather than the default.

Shawn Dodson
November 3, 2011, 07:17 PM
I just want to know your opinion on which type of handgun we should be looking for.

A handgun she can comfortably carry ON HER PERSON. A handgun carried off body in a purse may not be available to her when she NEEDS it. A handgun that's uncomfortable and a PITA won't be carried.

Revolver or automatic pistol? How much time and effort is she willing to invest learning and maintaining skills required to quickly clear jams?

3KillerBs
November 3, 2011, 07:18 PM
...

While I respect your opinion on this, I have to disagree with part of it. Throwing in the "son, daughter, father, mother, etc." spin on protecting your life puts added stress to an already stressful decision. You're also putting a human face on an inhumane person. (attacker) To me, it's like taking someone that has decided to not be a victim, and talking them out of it. ...

Well said.

Women already face so much social pressure to always put others, ANY others, ahead of themselves that when a woman contemplates not being a victim she should be reminded that she has the absolute right to defend herself and her children against anyone who presents a threat.

As for depriving someone of "son, daughter, father, mother, etc.", ...

Its not the defender who has made that decision. The attacker is the one who, in addition to not caring about the negative effects of his/her actions on his/her intended victim has CHOSEN to not care how his/her actions rebound on those who love him/her.

punkndisorderly
November 3, 2011, 07:36 PM
Put me down with all of the other "Let her pick it out" posts. Ideally, before the gun, get her training. Preferably including range time with a revolver and a semi. Then find a range who will rent and let her try some out for herself.

I hear a lot of people say the person should find something that fits their hand. The problem is, until someone gets the fundamentals of grip, sight picture, stance, etc. they won't have a context to put it in. Also, something that feels great after a few minutes handling in a store may not feel so great when actually fired. Also, some guns that feel great at the range may not feel so great after 10 hours on the hip.

ku4hx
November 3, 2011, 08:09 PM
The stress of my question is most intentional. I want people to understand what they are ultimately planing on doing if worst comes to worst. Do you believe the consequences of your actions are not to be considered and understood?

The use of deadly force is a very serious situation with ramifications of various sorts for the rest of the involved individual's lives.

I never approach the subject with the idea of putting anybody at ease. I venture to say most people who have guns for self defense have not only never used one in such circumstance, but their perception of what happens when a bullet, or multiple bullets, hit a living human being is based on what they see in movies and TV: clean, clinical and bodies looking like they're just asleep. There are real pictures of deadly shootings all over the web and people generally consider them disgusting. Maybe you and your significant other would like to spend some time viewing them and then discussing that happening in your living room for whatever reason. I'll bet that will a surreal experience and likely very short.

People need to face the fact of what they might do and make an informed decision.

hercster
November 4, 2011, 11:43 AM
Put me down with all of the other "Let her pick it out" posts. Ideally, before the gun, get her training. Preferably including range time with a revolver and a semi. Then find a range who will rent and let her try some out for herself.

I hear a lot of people say the person should find something that fits their hand. The problem is, until someone gets the fundamentals of grip, sight picture, stance, etc. they won't have a context to put it in. Also, something that feels great after a few minutes handling in a store may not feel so great when actually fired. Also, some guns that feel great at the range may not feel so great after 10 hours on the hip.
Since none of us was born holding a handgun, I have a hard time with the notion of "feels good in the hand". Almost every non shooter that gets to handle one of my better guns reacts about the same way and says the same thing; "ohhhh that's heavy". How can someone judge how a gun fits the hand if that person hasn't been shown how to operate all the controls and in the case of an auto, the slide? To many, a smaller gun will feel better initially but the real test is after 20 or so rounds and shot and the gun has been reloaded and made ready a few times. I wouldn't suggest my SIG X-five to any person looking for a self defense handgun; nor would I suggest a small light and "feels good in the hand" .327 Magnum revolver. There is only one way of making an intelligent choice in the case of a new shooter and that comes after instruction and some time shooting and doing all the related handling. This isn't going to happen in the store or someone's living room.

harmon rabb
November 4, 2011, 02:36 PM
Put me down with all of the other "Let her pick it out" posts. Ideally, before the gun, get her training. Preferably including range time with a revolver and a semi. Then find a range who will rent and let her try some out for herself.


I agree with all of this. I stupidly bought a PK380 for my wife as a carry gun, making the decision on my own. The slide is very easy to rack, the gun is very light, and the recoil is very low.

My wife could never get on with the mag release and just doesn't feel comfortable enough with semi-autos. Plus it somehow tosses brass right down her shirt (me, it flings right over my shoulder). Kind of a wasted purchase.

So she decided she wanted the smallest reasonable revolver with the lightest trigger. Got her a LCR and life is good. Apparently she really doesn't care about recoil. Cares more about having a short reach to the trigger.

SSN Vet
November 4, 2011, 04:11 PM
A nearby gun club with a very active membership offers the basic NRA classes for handgun safety and home defense.

The neat thing they do... is that at the end of the class, they have a range session where they have a table with ~25 different handguns on it. And each class participant is free to test fire as many as they like. The club members offer up their guns for the use of the class and the class fees pay for ammo.

I'd love to get my wife to take the class.... but we're scramblin' to make ends meat and raise our kids.

Any guys up in the north east with the same problem as the OP should check into Major Waldron's Sportsmen's Assoc. in Barrington, NH.

Skribs
November 4, 2011, 04:32 PM
But on a related note, I wish people would not hear the word "woman" and automatically think "purse carry".

I was only saying purse carry as it would be a different consideration than carrying on your body. In a social setting, men are not expected to carry a backpack or briefcase, and I wouldn't consider a fanny pack as socially acceptable. It is a valid assumption that a woman will have a purse, and it happens to be something that would conceal a gun better than what most women go out wearing.

I understand that men and women have different attire and body shapes, but I think the same basic principles apply for concealing a gun on your person.

CMC
November 4, 2011, 04:37 PM
I see a lot of reccomendatons for compact handguns Glock 23 and S&W 642.
IMHO these small handguns are for experts or individuals with lots of experience shooting handguns , women or men.
These small handguns have very stout recoil and are hard to hit with if you are a first time shooter.
They are very discouraging to first time shooters.
If anything a small handgun should be a 22 long rifle.
I start new shooters with a Browning buckmark which is kind of heavy and has low recoil, it is also very accurate.
The new Ruger Sp101 22 lr would be a good starting point.
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SP101-22.htm
Smith Also makes a J frame in 22 lr.
Once she masters a 22 she can move up to a bigger calibers ans she gains confidence.
A coworker 's mother had an attemped break in into her home , he got her a 5 in Aluminum frame Kimber 45 1911 and a J frame Smith, both guns were too much for her as recoil hurt too much.
He ended up getting her a 22 conversion for her Kimber, he carries a small Glock 45 and he though thats what she needed. He did not ask for my opinion and I did not give it to him.
I know this because I saw his mom and him at the rangeshooting the 22 and she said the 45 and 38 hurt her hands too much.

chieftain
November 4, 2011, 04:55 PM
My 24 y/o Daughter is a CCW carrier/user. Of course here in Arizona there is no permit required. She, like her older sister started shooting with my MKII Ruger when she was 8.

On her 21st Birthday I gave her the first handgun, a Government model Combat Elite Colt. Set it up with very thin grips, low thumb safety, short trigger extended Mag release etc.... for my 4'10" girl. She shoots the heck out of it and regularly shoots IDPA, club steel, and pin matches with me.

For CCW I got and set up a 9mm EMP by Springfield for her. I have one and like it. So I got little sis one too. She said all my other compacts, Glock 26, HK 2000sk, S&W M&Pc, Ruger SR9 etc.... were to "Kluncky", her words. Because of her small hands double action doesn't work well for her. And her primary shooter is a 1911 action same as the EMP.

In the end, let the lady choose her own weapon.

I do disagree with the fellow suggesting the priority for choosing a fighting weapon though.

Number #1 must always, ALWAYS, be reliability, then fit. In fact the three most important requirements of a fighting weapon is reliability, reliability, and reliability. Everything else is secondary.

Remember the difference between a mother, a daughter and a wife. You can get rid of a wife.

Good luck.

Fred

Psa1m144
November 4, 2011, 05:15 PM
I think it has been said a couple times already but for good measure.... http://corneredcat.com/

bigfatdave
November 4, 2011, 11:10 PM
Hands down, without a doubt, I'd suggest a Smith & Wesson 642
A lightweight snubby revolver?
Yeah, that will be fun and easy to gain skill with

Snubbies, mouseguns, and derringers are overspecialized for first guns, I suspect that having snibbies shoved into their hands has turned more women off of shooting as a hobby and/or made shooting for defense seem like too much trouble than it was worth

bigfatdave
November 4, 2011, 11:19 PM
Number #1 must always, ALWAYS, be reliability, then fit. it should be noted that reliability of most modern guns is pretty good, and can be improved with magazines/ammo selection and basic maintenance ... while fit is something you're stuck with when you get the weapon, other than changing out grips/stocks or adding those silly rubber sleeves, you get the hand interface you bought.

Fit IS #1, because you can't "fix" a bad fit
Reliability is #2, but a gun that can't be made reliable is still a deal-breaker

(this applies to everyone, regardless of plumbing)

harmon rabb
November 5, 2011, 08:39 AM
I understand that men and women have different attire and body shapes, but I think the same basic principles apply for concealing a gun on your person.

i'm willing to bet what positions conceal well on women are different than what conceals well on men. i also think appendix carry would work very well on most women, because they have breasts pushing their shirt outward and blousing it away from their stomach.

PowerG
November 5, 2011, 08:51 AM
I've always felt a good discussion on mindset is the best place to start. Getting the right gun is the easy part. After that, let's have safety training until she can teach it.

Hangingrock
November 5, 2011, 09:05 AM
There are venues that have women only firearms classes. Most likely the perspective being taught is better than male opinion.

Jonah71
November 5, 2011, 09:34 AM
a compact 40s&w for someone's first gun? especially a 110lb woman? really? jesus christ.
My thoughts exactly. I'm a pretty big guy and have fired a lot of guns, but it took me forever to get it right with my Glock G23 .40 cal. I was thinking more of a .380acp or at the most a .38 spec.

Blue68f100
November 5, 2011, 07:31 PM
Purses are stolen every day which should only be consider if that's the last option. If she goes shopping at the grocery store does she sits her purse on the cart? If so it may not in her control if needed. Snatch and grab happens all the time in parking lots. Once this happens you have a gun that's out of your control, in the hands of bad persons. Once you start carrying the gun it must be in your control 100% of the time or securely locked up.

Let her pick and shoot as many as she can before deciding. Even if she finds one early on keep her test firings guns. She may find something she like better. I know quite a few that carry full size 1911's on there person.

ROCK6
November 6, 2011, 01:33 PM
I personally wouldn’t recommend something like a .40 S&W for a first gun, but then I don’t know your mother either. One of my young female Army officers took a CHL class with my wife and I; she was about 5’2” and not much over 100lbs…her qualifying pistol was a Glock 27 that she had never fired before! I quickly went over the operation and she smoked the qualification course; the .40 S&W concern really depends on the user. I would also comment that from the many women I’ve informally worked with on the range, they often lean back when they shoot; this often causes more perceived recoil and less control. Once they learn how to properly lean into their shooting, the recoil becomes less of an issue and the fear of caliber not a major problem.

My wife most often carries her .380 Bersa, but enjoys shooting my .45 at the range. Lots of good advice, especially from Ms. 3KillerBs. My wife doesn’t carry in her purse, only on her person. Even with the more “fitting” clothes, she really likes her Crossbreed IWB. She does want to try a shoulder holster for certain occasions, so I’ll get her a Galco rig to test out.

It would be good practice to not only handle several handguns, but to also try and put 20-50 rounds through as many as she can. It’s good advice that even the best handling handgun may not feel as good when you’re on the range. My wife has difficulty with several pistols when trying to rack the slide and that is a concern she has but she’s changed her technique to work around that issue (more ‘push’ than ‘pull’).

Good luck and let us know what your mother ends up choosing and make sure to encourage her to take a class or two.

ROCK6

3KillerBs
November 6, 2011, 07:10 PM
The stress of my question is most intentional. I want people to understand what they are ultimately planing on doing if worst comes to worst. Do you believe the consequences of your actions are not to be considered and understood?

The use of deadly force is a very serious situation with ramifications of various sorts for the rest of the involved individual's lives.

I never approach the subject with the idea of putting anybody at ease. I venture to say most people who have guns for self defense have not only never used one in such circumstance, but their perception of what happens when a bullet, or multiple bullets, hit a living human being is based on what they see in movies and TV: clean, clinical and bodies looking like they're just asleep. There are real pictures of deadly shootings all over the web and people generally consider them disgusting. Maybe you and your significant other would like to spend some time viewing them and then discussing that happening in your living room for whatever reason. I'll bet that will a surreal experience and likely very short.

People need to face the fact of what they might do and make an informed decision.
For me it boils down very simply.

If its him or me its going to be him.

I'm not the one who decided that violence would be inflicted on someone at that time. The attacker is the one who made that choice.

3KillerBs
November 6, 2011, 07:42 PM
i'm willing to bet what positions conceal well on women are different than what conceals well on men. i also think appendix carry would work very well on most women, because they have breasts pushing their shirt outward and blousing it away from their stomach.

That will depend on the individual woman's weight and build. I'm too heavy right now -- the gun barrel is pushed out rather than nestling into the hollow in front of the hipbone (some barrel-forward cant would help -- I'm going to modify my bellyband now that I'm used to using it).

It will also depend on her favored style of dress. Its a great position if you wear oversized t-shirts or babydoll shirts. Not so great if you like closely-fitted shirts.

I like using two positions not frequently mentioned.

1. In the bellyband right under my bra. I can draw through the neckline with the gun vertical. Once I do my bellyband modification project it will have a horizontal holster that will conceal a larger gun. Small-busted women won't do so well with this.

2. In the bellyband just above the waist under my strongside arm. Its rather like a vertical shoulder holster except on the strong side. There are some restrictions on how long a gun I can still draw, but so far that's been the best thing I've found for winter when I'm wearing layers or bulky sweaters with higher necks that don't allow a neckline draw.

A smaller-chested woman could so the same on the weak side as if it were a normal shoulder holster and thus would have more room to draw since she wouldn't be pulling it up into her armpit. I can't reach across the obstacles to achieve that myself. :D

Nushif
November 6, 2011, 08:07 PM
My wife likes tight on top and loose on bottom, so for her ankle carry has worked very well, actually.
But concealing a handgun is so individual I would attempt it neither for another male nor female, period.
People gotta figure two things out for themselves:
What do I carry?
How am I gonna carry it?

Shadow 7D
November 6, 2011, 08:18 PM
I have seen a woman amply conceal a small pistol (think a P32 or derringer) in her cleavage
that she is built differently only means that wear of the CCW might differ
the rest is the same no matter who you are

- find a gun you like and is reliable, and shoot, shoot, and shoot some more.

Also
something to remember
in the Army Airborne school (where they make Paratroopers)
it isn't the first jump that is difficult, it's the second
training takes you through the first, you just do what you have done, follow the guy in front of you out the door.

Thinking in a SD of the whole consequences etc. is usually result in NOT firing, but that's a liability once the gun is pulled.

Pyro
November 6, 2011, 08:19 PM
After living in a city like Akron, women are more at risk than men are. Period.

abq87120
November 7, 2011, 10:50 PM
My wife started with a Glock G26 sub-compact carried in a Galco CCW purse. She found the 9mm was too heavy, 31 oz with 12 rounds (finger extension). She moved to a Ruger LCP, a .380. Less than 12 oz with seven rounds. BUT... the LCP has a trigger pull from hell and kicks a lot, not a fun gun at the range. But it can put seven rounds in a six inch paper plate at ten feet in less than four seconds.

She did the shoot-all-the-guns thing to get started and was most accurate with the G26. It's still her favorite gun but is just too danged heavy. Better one in the purse than one in the glove compartment.

1911 guy
November 8, 2011, 08:55 AM
same as for anoybody else.

Find a gun that fits, then carry the largest caliber you can comfortably carry and shoot available in that platform.

Chuck Dye
November 9, 2011, 02:22 PM
Read this thread

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=467134

on The Firing Line, especially the posts from pax.

Kathy Jackson, pax, has a lot of knowledge and experience and her comments on hand strength and double action are cause for concern. Hunters are familiar with how, taking a shot on game, we may barely perceive recoil we find punishing on the range. No doubt we would empty a revolver or DAO semi-auto in a fight unaware of the double action trigger pull. The problem is, as in that hunting shot, that results will depend a great deal upon how much we have practiced. If double action work is difficult enough to limit practice, I think it is, as pax concluded, not for defensive carry.

Paladin7
November 10, 2011, 01:31 PM
If this has already been covered, please excuse me, since I did not have the time to read through all the posts...

I would strongly suggest you not allow her to pick a gun. If she has no experience the chances of her making a good choice is very slim.

What she needs is training first. Get her to a good basic handgun safety course followed by a good CCW course that goes over not only the mechanics of shooting, but covers the legal issues involved in CCW. That is JOB ONE.

For a beginner, I would also strongly suggest you guide her toward a revolver as her first handgun. The manual of arms is a lot simpler and when she learns to handle it well, she will be in a much better position to move to a semi-auto or just stick with the revolver.

Training first will make all the difference.

If she doesn't want to invest the time in training and instruction, then tell her not to even think about carrying a gun.

My 2 cents...

chieftain
November 10, 2011, 04:30 PM
If this has already been covered, please excuse me, since I did not have the time to read through all the posts...

I would strongly suggest you not allow her to pick a gun. If she has no experience the chances of her making a good choice is very slim.

What she needs is training first. Get her to a good basic handgun safety course followed by a good CCW course that goes over not only the mechanics of shooting, but covers the legal issues involved in CCW. That is JOB ONE.

For a beginner, I would also strongly suggest you guide her toward a revolver as her first handgun. The manual of arms is a lot simpler and when she learns to handle it well, she will be in a much better position to move to a semi-auto or just stick with the revolver.

Training first will make all the difference.

If she doesn't want to invest the time in training and instruction, then tell her not to even think about carrying a gun.

My 2 cents...

Once again, thinking for other folks rarely ends well.

How much training did you pay for without a weapon?

As with my daughters, I own a bunch of handguns (about 75), had my daughters shoot what ever caught their fancy, and a bunch of suggestions. Took them to a range to try some that I did not have.

My oldest who does not carry, liked the Glock 30 best. My youngest who does shoot and even competes on occasion choose a Government model (full size 5") 45acp 1911. Asked for a Colt on her 21st birthday. I got her and set up a Colt Combat Elite. Thin grips, low thumb safety, short trigger, flat Main spring housing etc. For CCW she got a little Springfield EMP. Oh, she is 4'10" just over 100 lbs.

I tried to push her to a Glock 26, HK P2000sk LEM 9mm, M&P 9mm, etc.... My youngest thought they were "klunky" and she preferred the 1911 system/single action. Of course, she shoots the Colt regularly for grins and giggles.

I recommend everyone try a Glock 9mm 17/19/26/34 or S&W M&P 9mm Pro/L/FS/Compact for their first gun when I am asked. I usually let them shoot each of those models of mine, just to try them. Some like the HK P2000sk, and now the new Ruger SR9c too.

Kahr, but reliability is often raise as an issue with some Kahrs I have owned. Kel-Tec etc....

Let the lady decide for herself. My only direction is when a less than reliable or underpowered weapon is chosen. I will not go to 380's except for extreme situations.

If the lady is recoil sensitive, usually a large frame 380 is required. Bersa, Beretta, SIG 230/232 etc is what I go to. The small compact models usually recoil to much for the recoil sensitive.

Wherever you wind up, trust the shooter. THEN get them to school/training with their chosen weapon, understanding that after shooting it in training she may choose to go with a different gun.

One lady friend went to Gunsite with her SIG 239 9mm which she had been shooting for a couple years before I met her. They, Gunsite, sold her a M&P 45 full size. As soon as she got back I swapped her a M&P compact 9mm (ammo costs being my primary issue, recoil was secondary). She has been shooting that compact gun with 17 round magazines and spacers for competitions, and CCW/EDC with the 12 round magazines for about a year and a half now. Tried to offer her a fullsize 9 but seems to really love her compact. She is deadly with that little M&Pc.

Reliability, fit, recoil, ammo cost, ability to maintain, etc...

Let the ladies choose with assistance for their purposes, not yours.

Good luck.

Fred

230therapy
November 10, 2011, 04:35 PM
Yes, your mother should carry a handgun or three.

She should also attend safety training, state mandated concealed carry permit course, and at least one two or four day tactical training course from a recognized school or instructor.

Paladin7
November 11, 2011, 02:48 PM
chieftain, my post wasn't clear... I'm not suggesting she not pick a gun, what I meant to say was that she should not pick a gun first. I think she would be better off taking an NRA basic firearm safety course or something like that first, then choose.

This will give her some good info on the various types of handguns, their actions and she can ask questions and get some good answers to help her in her search.

With some basic training, she'll be better equipped to make a good decision for herself, then she can move on to more in depth tactical training.

Also, next time I'd appreciate the courtesy of a clarifying question before you take a swipe...

230therapy
November 11, 2011, 03:51 PM
I also advocate training first and using a semi-automatic handgun provided by the trainer. The training should be a two to four day "Level 1" course. The reason for this is that she does not know what she likes in a handgun. There are very small details that turn out to be very important. Features such as how the bottom of the triggerguard interacts with the the middle finger, texture of the grip, relationship of a safety or button to the hand, angle of the front sight, and so forth. For example, I seriously dislike the texturing on the HK USP 45 Compact and 20 LPI checkering on 1911's. Once she has taken such a course, she'll have a much better idea of what features that will work for her. More importantly, she'll also know what doesn't work for her.

Waywatcher
November 11, 2011, 04:41 PM
My 130 pound wife really enjoys my Glock 23; a compact .40.

I like it too.

To the OP, I think your logic was sound, don't pay too much attention to the people who say that a .40 is too much for a small woman. (veiled or not) It isn't.

harrygunner
November 11, 2011, 08:36 PM
If you're not "into guns", consider having your mother attend a beginner's session with a trainer.

IMO, pre-supposing small revolvers or .380-9mm pistols for woman is a mistake. Some find it easier to handle a semi-auto over a revolver, especially finding the trigger harder to pull on double action revolver.

I took a woman to the range this week to assist her in choosing a handgun.

The range was nice enough to allow us to handle several guns in a separate room before she rented any. I kept my bias to myself as best I could, focusing on her grip, her ability to reach the trigger, etc.

She's in her fifties, small and not strong. Her main issue was racking the slide, even as I taught her to push the frame away, not pull the slide toward her.

I gave her a mini-training session focusing on safety, stance, grip, sighting, etc.

She shot 9mm, .40S&W and my 1911 in .45ACP. I did not see her flinching or anticipating the shot by pushing the muzzle down. She said recoil was a non-issue.

I was very impressed with her groups. No shotgun pattern, most in a 4" circle at seven yards on her first time at a range.

She wound up wanting either a HK USP Compact in .45ACP or a 1911 Commander in .45ACP.

Similar result with my daughter a few years ago when she was eighteen. After shooting several guns, she wanted my Sig P229 in .40S&W. So, I gave it to her.

SorenityNow
November 12, 2011, 09:20 PM
Im takin my mother to the gun range on tue to rent and take a look at weapons. This topic would be great for her to take a look at

If you enjoyed reading about "What's your opinion on ccw for a woman?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!