Loads for .311 jacketed in 30-06 ( 1917 5 groove)


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Fast flyer
November 3, 2011, 12:15 AM
Anyone come up with a good load for 160- 180 gr .3105 or .312 303 bullets for the 30-06? I know this sounds like a contradiction in terms, but I have a 1917 eddy stone with 5 groove barrel. Slugs out at .311 trying to get rid of flyers and get this thing to group better than 4 moa? :banghead:

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ArchAngelCD
November 3, 2011, 12:23 AM
If you barrel is actually .311" there in no reason not to use published load data for the .308" 30-06 with the wider bullets. All thing are the same except for the bullet diameter and that is of no consequence because of the matching barrel diameter. Pressures won't increase like they would if you were loading a .311" bullet for a .308" barrel so existing 30-06 load data is valid.

Welcome to the forum...

Fast flyer
November 3, 2011, 12:42 AM
I totally agree with you, I have fired some test rounds at minimum and working up just to err on the side of caution, no signs of over pressure.
With a few die hard enfield guys out there, im trying not to reinvent the wheel to find accuracy and a good hunting load.

ArchAngelCD
November 3, 2011, 01:06 AM
With a few die hard Enfield guys out there, I'm trying not to reinvent the wheel to find accuracy and a good hunting load.
That's a totally different matter. The Enfield is usually in .303 and the M1917 is usually in 30-06. You also mentioned your rifle is a 30-06. Just because the bore is oversized doesn't change the fact it's a 30-06 so Enfield ammo load data will do you no good at all. A good 30-06 hunting load is a good hunting load no matter what rifle it's shot from as long as it's accurate.

My favorite 30-06 load for use in a bolt action rifle would be the first load I try in that M1917 even though you will be using a wider bullet to compensate for the oversized bore.

Fast flyer
November 3, 2011, 02:28 AM
Arch,
Thanks for the reply!
Cheers

badger brown
November 3, 2011, 11:22 AM
howdy, the only problem i had with doing .311 bullets is just because your barrel is .311 the chamber at the neck has not been enlarged. yes it will chamber but when you pull the trigger there is no room for the expanding neck and it holds on to the bullet and pressure shoots through the roof, makes your 30-06 look like a belted case and the primer stick inside your m1 . my barrel slugged out at .320". it would be better if you had it chambered for a 311-06 or rebarreled .

badger brown

rcmodel
November 3, 2011, 01:16 PM
How exactly did you measure a slug from a 5-groove barrel?

It's just not possible with any standard dial caliper or micrometer.

No matter how you measure it, you have a land on one side and a groove on the other.

The only way I know of to do it is try fitting the slug in a series of .308", .309", .310" & .311" bullet sizing dies.

If it fits you must acquit!

rc

1KPerDay
November 3, 2011, 02:17 PM
Maybe he measured the diameter with a piece of string, divided by Pi... multiplied by the radius, or ulna... or... rotation of the earth...

I forget. But math was never my strong subject. :D

Fast flyer
November 3, 2011, 10:24 PM
Wow, doesn't take long does it?
We all know about the caliper issue with 5 groove, thanks for the input.

Badger ,you make an interesting point on the chambering issues. Haven't seen any of the overpressure signs you mentioned. Cartridge in .3105 gravity feeds.
I'll spec chamber and loaded cartridge.

Btw, what rifle were you referring to at .320 slug?

Fast flyer
November 3, 2011, 10:42 PM
Arch,
I was calling my 30-06 an enfield, you are obviously a historian and I'll address it as a " model of 1917" so there's no confusion. Don't think I would use powder data for a .303 in a 30-06. Although the irony is I'm using the bullet.

ArchAngelCD
November 4, 2011, 02:10 AM
I was just trying to avoid confusion, I wasn't talking down to you and I hope you didn't take it that way.

badger brown
November 4, 2011, 11:20 AM
i used a 000 buck to slug the barrel of my M1 Garand. it was worn out when i bought it . i've had it rebarreled with a new barrel and shoots a lot better. when i got it it wouldn't hit with in 6" of a 12" tree . now it shoots around 1" groups at 100 yards. back to work , be back at 11:30.

bb

Fast flyer
November 4, 2011, 01:31 PM
Bb,
.320 is really bad, amazing you could find the round at all!
My 1917 enfield, yes enfield , mics at .3105 and it's obviously slightly larger than that due to the error's other's have had so much fun pointing out! My point here is , IMHO and many others, the barrels on p14 and p17 are one and the same. If you ask yourself why hatcher made the point about 5 groove, there must been some contention and lots of politics with a 5 groove left hand twist going on an American rifle, needless to say they were all changed to 2-4or 6 groove at first time thru depot for overhaul. Kind of makes you wonder way? Politics ,accuracy or or all of the above!

Ff

badger brown
November 4, 2011, 04:44 PM
the tree was in the edge of a pond, the water was the backstop. the slugs almost came out sideways and made a big splash. just be careful ! even if you have to cast a mold of your chamber to measure the neck. i think i have an NRA reloading book that has chamber blueprints . i'll try to find it this weekend and let you know monday.

bb

1KPerDay
November 4, 2011, 07:08 PM
............

Fast flyer
November 4, 2011, 07:26 PM
Great minds think alike, going to spec the chamber and see what is fact from fiction.
Ff

Fast flyer
November 4, 2011, 07:45 PM
1k,
:cool:

1KPerDay
November 4, 2011, 08:38 PM
Same to you... :cool:

I was actually wondering if there's a reliable method for measuring the bore of a 5 groove barrel with normal calipers. Like, can you determine the depth of the grooves and subtract one of those values from the final or something.... hmmmmm

Galil5.56
November 4, 2011, 09:03 PM
////

Fast flyer
November 4, 2011, 09:53 PM
1k,
A wise man once said: you can't unring a bell"
:cool:
Cheers
Ff

Rory McCanuck
November 4, 2011, 10:18 PM
Same to you... :cool:

I was actually wondering if there's a reliable method for measuring the bore of a 5 groove barrel with normal calipers. Like, can you determine the depth of the grooves and subtract one of those values from the final or something.... hmmmmm


Not calipers, they tend to be too inaccurate, but a micrometer will work nicely.
Cut a strip out of a pop can and wrap it around the slug.
Measure the width of the whole package, and subtract 2X the thickness
of the pop can.

Those 5 groove barrels have been known to be very accurate ;)

Fast flyer
November 5, 2011, 01:34 AM
Hi rory,
I've read that and tried it. It sounds great in theory, but doesn't work to well in application. Didn't use a pop can, I used shim stock. If you use a mic and roll the slug to hit the high points you can get very close, not perfect, but close enough to know if there is a problem.

I've seen lots of 1 moa from cast shooters using Lyman's .311299 or bigger,
Haven't seen any signed targets from jacketed rounds, not to say there not out there, just haven't seen them.

The ever elusive 1 moa was unheard of in 1917 for an issued infantry rifle. I think the specs were closer to 4 moa. When the tin coated bullet came out they tighter up, set alot of new records and actually redesigned The targets to increase difficulty to reflect the improvements.

If anyone has a 5 groove eddystone that's shooting 1 moa that's awesome, pm me and let me know what the secret is! I'm still trying to get there with mine.

Fast flyer
November 5, 2011, 01:38 AM
Here the tin bullut and a little history,
Enjoy!
http://www.odcmp.org/1101/can.pdf
Ff

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