[backbencher]

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/proper-appropriation-of-voluntary-tax-dollars-generated-by-the-nfa-branch-of-the-batfe/

[Bobson]

Seems like a step in the wrong direction, IMHO.

From OP's Link:
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES (ATF) NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT BRANCH (NFA) DOES NOT HAVE THE PROPER TECHNOLOGY NOR THE MAN POWER TO EFFECTIVELY SERVE THE TAX PAYERS THAT IT IS BOUND BY LAW TO SERVE, PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION.
In other words: "The BATFE isn't doing a good-enough job of regulating Americans efficiently. Let's change that."

Why not work to eliminate the problem itself? This is like people giving a reach-around to the BATFE so they're more gentle while they screw us. Shouldn't the goal be to stop getting screwed?

Figuratively, of course.

[Justin]

I'm sorry, but the BATFE's job is to process the paperwork for those who want to legally possess NFA items.


A $200 per-item tax is more than enough money for them to be able to streamline the process. Five month waits just for the ATF to give their "ok" on a suppressor is ridiculous, and this is further compounded by the fact that there is no automated way to track the process online, so if you want to know where you're at in the queue, you have to call an ATF inspector and ask them directly.

Linoge at Walls of the City has a pretty good diatribe about this exact thing. (http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2011/11/good-to-know-my-tax-dollars-are-being-wasted.html)

Like it or not, the NFA isn't going away any time soon, so it's counterproductive to claim that adding more inspectors and streamlining the paperwork process to acquire NFA items is somehow better.

[Sam Cade]

Online petitions are a waste of time unless you are in the business of harvesting email addresses....like the folks who provided the above petition.

Care2 currently provides users with access to a wide array of resources, including, various communications tools, forums, shopping services, personalized content and branded programming through its network of properties (the "Service"). You also understand and agree that the Service may include advertisements and that these advertisements are necessary for Care2 to provide the Service.


Don't be dumb. Don't sign stuff like this.


http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp

[backbencher]

I'm sure if you search on the original link, you can find arguments for & against. I signed the petition - if you don't want to, no worries.

[backbencher]

I'm sure if you search on the original link, you can find arguments for & against. I signed the petition - if you don't want to, no worries.

[Sam Cade]

To the OP:

So how, exactly, would this have ANY possible effect?

[Sam Cade]

What kind of companies does Care2 not allow to be advertisers?

One of our most important commitments to our members is to not allow deceptive advertising or harmful products on our site. We will not accept advertising for gambling, pornography, alcohol, firearms or tobacco products.

In essence, this particular "petition" provider exists to deliver targeted advertising to a self selected consumer.:rolleyes:



Care2 (www.care2.com) is the largest and fastest-growing online social network of “do gooders” who take action every day to make a better world. Founded in 1998, Care2 has grown to 16 million members, with a monthly unique audience of more than 11 million people, and is consistently ranked by Quantcast among the top 200 U.S. web networks by traffic. Nearly 10,000 new members join Care2 every day, attracted by countless opportunities to discover, share and take action. Care2’s members tend to be well-educated women between the ages of 25 and 60 (average age is 39), with strong “green” values and a desire to support social justice, save the environment, protect animals and live healthier, more sustainable lives. For more than 700 leading nonprofit organizations, Care2 has become a preferred source for recruiting new members, supporters and donors online. A rising number of these nonprofits have made Care2 a central component of their strategy to attract new grassroots donors and win major advocacy victories. Care2 has also significantly extended the reach and impact of its clients’ campaigns by creating the Care2 Take Action Platform, a vertical ad network of about 130 partner websites – including Grist, Mother Jones, AlterNet, TreeHugger, MTV, Ms. Magazine, eNature.com, CafeMom, Woman's Health, Prevention, LinkTV, DailyKos, Talking Points Memo, Wonkette and many others -- that promote Care2 campaigns via a widget and email placements to a combined 100 million additional civic-minded people who are similar to Care2’s own millions of members.

[jmorris]

Hmm, what a great time in history to ask for more (larger) government.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Hmm, what a great time in history to ask for more (larger) government.

A larger government is when they have more say in your life and businesses, this is just asking to have more employees to run a specific job.

[jmorris]

A larger government is when they have more say in your life and businesses, this is just asking to have more employees to run a specific job.

More employees = more money needed to pay them = more out of my pocket = more say in my life. I look at it pretty simple more/larger less/smaller.

[Justin]

More employees = more money needed to pay them = more out of my pocket = more say in my life. I look at it pretty simple more/larger less/smaller.

They're already getting paid via the $200 tax stamp. If you look at the blog post I linked to earlier, it's quite clear that there's plenty of money for them to hire more inspectors, but unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any accountability for what is being done with the collected taxes.

If a government's purpose is to serve the people, and if said government is going to make its citizens jump through hoops to attain permission to do certain things like drive automobiles or own sound suppressors, it's hardly out of line to expect that such paper shuffling be done in a relatively quick and efficient manner.

[Birch Knoll]

Do you honestly think that $200 stamp covers the salaries and overhead involved for the months and months that it takes ATF to process a form?

[Ian]

There are 10 examiners who do NFA transfers. They did more than 100,000 of them last year, which comes to more than $2 million in tax stamps. So right now, they have $200,000 per year for each examiner (from the really pathetic state of the registry, we know they aren't spending much on software or upkeep). That looks like enough money to get a few more people, or at least convince the existing ones to do their jobs a little faster.

If you had to wait six months to get federal approval to join a church, you can bet there would be lawsuits up the yin-yang. Shouldn't be any different with guns (well, we shouldn't have this transfer tax in the first place, but you see what I mean).

[jmorris]

If a government's purpose is to serve the people

That is a common view these days. Everyone wants something from the government, like they produce something, not just take things from those that produce.

I hold a conservitive view, the purpose of government is to protect the individual rights of its citizens.

[jmorris]

There are 10 examiners who do NFA transfers. They did more than 100,000 of them last year, which comes to more than $2 million in tax stamps. So right now, they have $200,000 per year for each examiner (from the really pathetic state of the registry, we know they aren't spending much on software or upkeep). That looks like enough money to get a few more people, or at least convince the existing ones to do their jobs a little faster.

Not the way they do things. You don't remember the hearings about out of control goverment spending an the $20,000 allen wrench? If you really want to make it better for less money you would just hire a private company to take over the registry.

[Justin]

I hold a conservitive view, the purpose of government is to protect the individual rights of its citizens.

What is protecting the individual rights of a nation's citizens if not a fairly obvious sort of service?

Not the way they do things. You don't remember the hearings about out of control goverment spending an the $20,000 allen wrench? If you really want to make it better for less money you would just hire a private company to take over the registry.

Hence the previously posted questions regarding what happens to the NFA taxes that are collected.

The bottom line is this:

The NFA isn't going away any time soon, and as such, the government has a duty to execute the handling of taxes and filing of paperwork in somewhat efficient and expedient manner.

Five months or more is not in any way, shape, or form efficient or expedient, and clearly the BATFE should hire more examiners in order to expedite the NFA process.

[jmorris]

Quote:


I hold a conservitive view, the purpose of government is to protect the individual rights of its citizens.


What is protecting the individual rights of a nation's citizens if not a fairly obvious sort of service?

In that context it would meet my definition.






The NFA isn't going away any time soon, and as such, the government has a duty to execute the handling of taxes and filing of paperwork in somewhat efficient and expedient manner.

I agree it's not going away but from a tax collected/service speed standpoint they are no worse than the IRS. With what the IRS collects from me each year service should be instant.

To be honest for the time frame the NFA tax has remained the same $200 (1934) I don't expect much anyway. Based on the Consumer Price Index average compiled by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, that $200 in 1934 would be $2785 today. I would expect quite a bit faster service at that point.

[Mahnmut]

On another forum, silencertalk I believe, it was mentioned that the money collected from the Tax stamp has been earmarked for HUD housing.

Their funding must come from elsewhere.

[fulltanghalo]

There are 10 examiners who do NFA transfers. They did more than 100,000 of them last year, which comes to more than $2 million in tax stamps. So right now, they have $200,000 per year for each examiner (from the really pathetic state of the registry, we know they aren't spending much on software or upkeep). That looks like enough money to get a few more people, or at least convince the existing ones to do their jobs a little faster.

Quickly, 100k x $200 = 20 million but a FOIA requests, posted on silencer talk, for revenue generated from SOT fees and Stamps put the numbers at
2007 - $6,911,574.43
2008 - $8,625,776.18
2009 - $9,916,321.54
2010 - $9,713,974.43

Problem is the ATF isn't self funding, all that money just goes back into a general fund. They get their money from budget requests from our congress critters....