Buy a 22 plinking pistol or a 22 conversion?


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Dr_2_B
November 5, 2011, 05:24 PM
I am at a place in my pistol shooting where I want to improve my tactical shooting. I don't need IDPA now, I need to shoot about a thousand or two rounds at man-sized targets and get to the point where I can hit consistently and quickly and with quick, accurate follow up shots.

I want to do this with a 22 before I go to the larger calibers. My question is, should I get a 22 conversion for one of my many defense-caliber pistols or should I buy a 22 pistol, Ruger Mark III or something?

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Bobson
November 5, 2011, 05:35 PM
Realistically, you'll get very little benefit out of that thousand+ rounds if you shoot them out of a completely different gun than the one you carry. I wouldn't bother taking the time to do it unless you go the conversion route, but that's just me.

ColtPythonElite
November 5, 2011, 05:52 PM
Realistically, you'll get very little benefit out of that thousand+ rounds if you shoot them out of a completely different gun than the one you carry



Sorry, I don't agree...I find that practice with any handgun helps hone skills. My selection is pretty wide and I can transition from one to another easily. I shoot weekly, but may not shoot the same gun/caliber/action twice in a row. I find just shooting keeps me pretty sharp.

Just this week, I did my required qualifications with a semi-auto duty weapon and then turned around and qualified with a big bore revolver that I had never qualified with before...First time out of the gate, I shot the big bore with in two points of my duty weapon.

Pilot
November 5, 2011, 06:10 PM
Conversion kits like the CZ Kadet Kit, and Marvel unit for the 1911 are really top notch. I put them right up there with my Ruger MK II's. However, I like having both the conversion unit and the dedicated .22 pistol, so if this is your first .22, then get something like a Ruger MK II or Browning Buckmark.

ku4hx
November 5, 2011, 06:45 PM
A .22 handgun of any kind can be a very inexpensive way to get familiar with shooting, i.e. proper grip, proper sighting and etc. However, it seems to make sense that if your idea is to become proficient with a certain gun, you need to do a lot of shooting with THAT gun in order to gain proficiency with it.

If that were not the case, you'd see the military and law enforcement agents practicing and qualifying with pellet guns.

glockman19
November 5, 2011, 06:47 PM
It all depsnds...

I have a Ruger Mark III Hunter 6 7/8" Fluted barrel I love...

I did however get a .22lr conversion for my 1911...I love it too.

I am planning to get a .22lr conversion for my Glock 19.

I like the ability to practice with less expensive ammo...I also like the dedicated .22..

There is no wight or wrong answer.

If you already have a handgun that you can convert then it certainly makes sense to get a conversion kit...however if you don't have a dedicated .22lr it might be a nice addition to your collection.

ColtPythonElite
November 5, 2011, 06:48 PM
I know of at least one LEO agency that uses Ruger 22/45's to hone the proficiency of new officers that need help.

Walt Sherrill
November 5, 2011, 07:29 PM
If you already own a gun for which a quality conversion kit is available, get the kit. If not, get a good, inexpensive used .22 pistol.

If you have a CZ, get a Kadet Kit. If you have a Glock, there are several kits available. If you have a 1911, look into the Marvel kits. (The Marvel Kits are expensive, but the worst are quite good, and the best are as accurate as any dedicated .22 used in matches and competition.)

Dr_2_B
November 5, 2011, 07:49 PM
If you have a Glock, there are several kits available.

Walt, I have a couple CZs but I'll probably go the Glock route. I'd most likely get a conversion for either my G23 or my G27. Do you know if there is interchangeability with a conversion kit between the 2 sizes (I.e. will fit both the G23 & G27)?

Radagast
November 5, 2011, 08:16 PM
Conversion unit.
I sold off my Ruger MKII & 22-45 years ago with no regrets, they did nothing to improve my shooting for IPSC as they did not match the feel or controls of my centerfire guns.
Tactical/practical/defensive shooting is more than rounds down range or trigger control, it's reloading, working the safety, mag release,, instinctively picking up the sights, draw stroke and a few other variables that come from making the gun an extension of your body.
If you buy a plinker and train a lot you will master accuracy and basic trigger control. You will still have to relearn it to suit the centerfire you intend to shoot with, and you will have to unlearn the controls to relearn the new set, even if you are a good shooter.
I was on the Australian IPSC team many years ago. I shot mainly with a Glock, sometimes with a Beretta. I had a draw stroke that would naturally knock off the safety on the Beretta and was suitable for both guns. When I shot a match with a 1911 I drew and failed to disengage the safety - under pressure I had reverted to what I trained for. This is a good example of why I think a conversion kit is a good idea - with most it will duplicate the factory controls and sights.

My Beretta practise kit did improve my shooting with the Beretta.
My S&W Model 18 in .22lr certainly improved my shooting with My Model 66 in .357 Magnum.
Conversion kits weren't available when I bought my Glock 17, so 20,000 rounds of 9mm went down the pipe. A conversion kit would have been much cheaper.

Oh yeah, don't buy a Ceiner conversion. His reputation for poor quality control and non existent service goes back a decade and he has now been charged with fraud, so may not be in the gun business much longer.

hirundo82
November 5, 2011, 10:06 PM
Either a conversion kit or dedicated .22 will help your shooting IME. My skill has improved noticeably since I bought a Buckmark. That said, I'm eagerly awaiting TacSol introducing their conversion kit for the compact Glocks (I carry a G19).

1SOW
November 5, 2011, 10:43 PM
I advocate both; but if you're specifically planning to use this as training for comp, get the conversion kit for your comp pistol. You'll get BOTH the shooting basics training and better learn to handle your go-to pistol that you'll have to use to learn recoil management.

GCBurner
November 5, 2011, 10:51 PM
Any kind of practice helps, but I like the .22 conversion units I got for my 1911A1 and my Glock 30. They have the same sights, and the same trigger pull as with the .45 uppers, and fit the same holster for practicing up for IDPA shooting. It's a whole lot cheaper to go through 100 rounds or so of .22LR than .45 ACP a few times a month, too.

22-rimfire
November 5, 2011, 10:52 PM
Shooting a 22 will help, but I don't think you need to shoot thousands of rounds that you expect will make you proficient with your carry gun/home defense gun.

If you go this route, I would choose a 22 with similar feel as the center fire handgun.

Walt Sherrill
November 5, 2011, 11:20 PM
Walt, I have a couple CZs but I'll probably go the Glock route. I'd most likely get a conversion for either my G23 or my G27. Do you know if there is interchangeability with a conversion kit between the 2 sizes (I.e. will fit both the G23 & G27)?

Sorry, can't help you there. I've had Glocks, but no conversion kits. (I have a 35, now.) That said, IF YOU HAVE A CZ, I'd recommend a Kadet Kit.

My Kadet Kit is so accurate I eventually traded away my Ruger Target Competition, which was the long-barreled stainless slab-sided model. Nearly everyone I've talked to about Kadet Kits has had the same sort of results. They cost a bit more, but seem to be worth it.

As is the case with others here, I don't know how much "transfer" of skills are possible when shooting a .22 as substitute for shooting a larger caliber gun. I know that trigger control can improve, but seriously wonder just what else is gained. (Everyone has opinions on this, but I've never seen anything BUT opinions...)

.

bigfatdave
November 5, 2011, 11:44 PM
Using a conversion kit with your carry gun implies that you would never change your carry gun.

If there is a kit, and it is affordable (your call there) feel free to get it as a traing tool and toy.

But in the long run, you'll want a dedicated target pistol anyway, so the real answer is both

BullfrogKen
November 6, 2011, 12:08 AM
If you don't reload, I suggest you use the money there and start.

7.62 Nato
November 6, 2011, 01:38 AM
Both. If you can only afford one, get the pistol. I've bought handguns for less than prices I've seen on many kits.

Sergei Mosin
November 6, 2011, 02:16 AM
I've thought on and off about a .22 pistol, but most of the offerings out there are so ugly I can't bring myself to buy one. The ones that aren't hideous are expensive (CZ Kadet, Beretta 87) or not quite what I'd trust quality-wise (GSG 1911-22.) Surely someone out there can manufacture a more attractive .22 pistol?

bigfatdave
November 6, 2011, 03:30 AM
spend more time looking at the sights, less time staring at it in profile

chris in va
November 6, 2011, 03:33 AM
I have a Kadet for my 75BD. It is a great tool for IDPA practice, cuts down on flinching too.

MikePaiN
November 6, 2011, 06:44 AM
I find that .22 practice is important and it does keep up my centerfire skills.
My main .22lr pistol was a 5.5" Buckmark Camper URX. This .22 was one hell of a shooter BUT it never suited me as good "practice pistol" its trigger, controls and feel were way to far off from my centerfires. I always felt like I could get more out of my .22lr practice time if had a more suitable pistol. I've tried a few "conversions" but they never seemed to work well. After lots of searching and much debate..I decided to pick up a Sig Sauer Mosquito.
I'm not going to review the Mosquito here, but mine has been great with no issues and it makes an excellent trainer, far better than a "target" .22lr like the Buckmark.
Here it is with my Beretta PX4 .40
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x298/Mikepain_pics/DSC04058.jpg

pazz
November 6, 2011, 11:46 AM
I think the cheaper route would be just do buy a good .22lr to
target practice with

MTO
November 6, 2011, 12:30 PM
We got the Kadet kit for my wife's CZ-75, and in spite of the cost (a dedicated .22lr pistol in addition to the CZ-75 would have been far cheaper), I highly recommend this route.

I strongly believe that my centerfire shooting benefits from trigger time with .22lr. It's especially useful as a diagnostic tool if I'm struggling with centerfire for whatever reason, so I always keep one handy when practicing even if it never makes it out of the range bag. A flinch or a push or a pull is easier to see using .22lr, and I find that it doesn't matter how similar the .22lr pistol is to whatever gun I am not shooting well because whatever bad habit I'm trying to nip in the bud will show itself if I transition immediately to a string with the .22lr.

One other thing about the .22lr. I find it is critical for new shooters because blast, recoil, and adrenaline can disorient first-time shooters to the point that their brains cannot make the connection between what is happening on their end (grip, sight picture, and trigger squeeze) and where the bullet strikes the target. Reducing the blast and recoil helps them to make that connection. While I am certain that I just stated the obvious for most members here, I think this "newness" factor also manifests for experienced shooters trying to master new skills. For instance, the first time I ever tried a controlled pair was with centerfire, and I had no idea what the heck was happening the second time I pulled the trigger. I knew I had a flash-like sight picture, but the bullet strike was all over the place no matter what I did. It wasn't until I tried it with .22lr that I saw that it was my first shot of the pairs that was wild. I was focusing so hard on getting the follow-up shot right that all of my training to land the first shot went out the window somewhere between ready and that first squeeze.

2wheels
November 6, 2011, 01:31 PM
If you want to train for your carry pistols, the closer you get to them the better. So a conversion kit, or a VERY similar .22LR pistol is your best bet.

TonyT
November 6, 2011, 05:49 PM
If you want more trigger time with your favorite centerfire semi auto pistol then a 22 conversion unit is the way to go. However if you desire a reliable 22 pistol then purchase a 22 caliber pistol.

Walt Sherrill
November 6, 2011, 06:10 PM
However if you desire a reliable 22 pistol then purchase a 22 caliber pistol.

And your reason for that statement is what, exactly? Are you claiming (based on something other than conjecture) that conversion kits are less reliable than dedicated .22s?

The CZ Kadet is a 9mm frame with a .22 top unit. The Kadet Kit added to a 9mm or .40 CZ is exactly the same gun.

The Marvel .22 conversion kit for 1911s is renowned for both quality, reliability, and accuracy.

The main reason for NOT getting a conversion kit is that some of them aren't as accurate as a dedicated .22. Some -- but, not all.

If you get one that is accurate, you've arguably got the best of both worlds. And at least two (cited above) are as accurate as dedicated .22s.

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