mauser question.... 7mm vs. 8mm


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hipoint
November 6, 2011, 04:51 PM
I love my 8mm mauser, I've owned several and always kept one around. I've recently learned (thanks to this forum) that modern american ammo for the 8mm is loaded weak due to the possibility of someone putting it in one of the older mausers and making their gun look like something out of looney tunes...

so question is, how about the 7mm mauser? I don't know much about them, just that they exist, and that's it really. Pro's and con's for each? Since commercial ammo for the 8mm is loaded weaker, would a 7mm be a better choice or is it loaded pretty weak as well?

I always like to throw the biggest piece of lead possible down range, but if it isn't giving up too much I might start looking for a 7mm

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LoonWulf
November 6, 2011, 04:55 PM
the 7mm is also loaded down, as far as i know atleast. The mausers the 7 was designed for were the older small ring, not as strong as the later large ring. I still think its a great cartridge, and id like to get a modern action chambered for it.

hipoint
November 6, 2011, 04:58 PM
here is something I just found... a very interesting piece of b.s.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2WNX8MM-1.html

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/66215-5.html

one is for winchester super x and the other is for remington core-lokt ammo... Check the specs for each, they are EXACTLY the same. I have serious doubts they would be EXACTLY the same, if nothing else the bullet shapes should affect velocity at 300 yards???

hipoint
November 6, 2011, 04:59 PM
the 7mm is also loaded down, as far as i know atleast. The mausers the 7 was designed for were the older small ring, not as strong as the later large ring. I still think its a great cartridge, and id like to get a modern action chambered for it.
so basically I might as well just stick to my ol faithful 8mm? maybe I'll just get another one, maybe get one that's not been sporterized just for the heck of it...

LoonWulf
November 6, 2011, 05:05 PM
They might be loaded to "spec" or to generate the same trajectory out of a standard 98 so the sight line up (and if you happen to fire one in the smaller bore it would be fine). Again, im not really very knowledgeable about these things, so you may want to wait for others to weigh in :D

R.W.Dale
November 6, 2011, 06:26 PM
Here's the scoop

Anything METRIC is 9times in 10 laughably dumbed down as factory ammunition from American companies due to the phobia they have of guns from non English speaking countries.

And by metric I mean with an X in the name

posted via tapatalk using android.

valnar
November 6, 2011, 06:41 PM
Can you even get 7x57 surplus any more? I was going to buy a rifle for it as a nice intermediate cartridge until I realized I can't find any cheap ammo for it.

waidmann
November 6, 2011, 06:41 PM
Not only downloaded but sometimes with .321 bullets. You gotta go European if off-the-shelf is all you shoot.

bpsig
November 6, 2011, 06:54 PM
Yes the 7 mm is still loaded but it is sometimes hard to find or seasonal run like the 6.5x55.
I found a new in box 7mm mauser 100 + age and condition and is still that way. but soaking the wood in oil to restore it looks like a dried out cigar but coming back great. I have winchester and rem, but would look for some pri or s&b for current or try global samco they had it by the case but was corrosive. mausers ammo is definately downloaded here
but euro 8mm was sometimes mg 42 ammo so can be hot. 8 is a stomp on the shoulder with steel but stock if not held tight. 7mm is a supposed to be slap . However the 6.5x 55 is a push and easy all day long range like the 7mm. It is a reloaders dream can do a lot.

morcey2
November 6, 2011, 08:14 PM
Here's the scoop

Anything METRIC is 9times in 10 laughably dumbed down as factory ammunition from American companies due to the phobia they have of guns from non English speaking countries.

And by metric I mean with an X in the name



Not hardly. The problem with 8mm is that SAAMI doesn't distinguish between 8x57J and 8x57JS. J has a 0.318 bullet diameter and JS has a 0.323 diameter. Fed/Win/Rem all load so that the round won't blow up a 1888 commission rifle that hasn't been converted to handle JS rounds. That limits the load to a 35000 PSI max pressure. (their choice of round-nose bullets doesn't help much either.) Every reload manual I've seen has listed at least 45,000 PSI as the max, with many going higher than that because they've never seen an unconverted 1888 either. CIP, the european analog to SAAMI list 8x57JS max pressure as 57,000 PSI. Loaded to that, it'll do anything you want it to do. With the 170 grain bullet that the domestic loaders use, you should be getting at least 2650 fps instead of the pathetic 2360/2250 that you get currently.

As for the 7x57, they're loaded to be safe in the rolling block rifles that were chambered for them around the turn of the 20th century. They're limited to 51,000 PSI, which is still less than becomes unsafe in even a small ring mauser let alone a large ring. At that pressure, it's still a very useful cartridge with good ballistics, but can do better. CIP specifies just a hair under 57,000 PSI. The difference is going to be about 100 fps between the loadings, as compared to 300-400fps with the 8mm.

Of the two, I'd pick the 7x57 if you're not handloading, but the 8x57 if you are. If you're a little sensitive on the recoil side of things, the 7mm in factory loads has a bit less than even the pathetic 8mm factory loadings.

I'd say get a 7x57, since you already have some 8x57 rifles and start handloading for both of them. They're both great cartridges, but the 7mm is more useful if you're not handloading.

(or get some BVAC 8mm which is 175 grain spitzers loaded at ~2600 fps.)

Matt

Glen
November 6, 2011, 08:23 PM
It would be nice if you could reload the 8mm. I started out on the cheap, using a Lee Loader to get decent velocities out of that rifle. Also European loads are good if you can get them. I too like the 7mm, but I thought I would wear out the 8 first before changing the barrel. Ha! I can't seem to wear out though.

Cosmoline
November 6, 2011, 08:33 PM
I've shot both quite a bit over the years. The biggest difference is the type of rifles generally available in each chambering. The majority in 8x57JS in this country are military surplus Mausers, of course. There are some commercial Mausers, some special imports and of course Bubba sporters in the chambering.

With the 7x57 there are a lot more factory made bolt actions available. CZ has put out a really sweet 550 in 7x57. Ruger has a truly wonderful light weight No. 1 sporter in 7x57, and I believe they produced the M77 in that chambering as well over the years.

For hunting with either handloads are a good idea, but you can get European factory rounds in full octane. The only big drawback with 8x57JS handloads is a number of the 8mm bullets are for the 8mm Rem Mag and may not expand reliably. I'm not sure how big of an effect that would have in reality, but it's a consideration. I was in general MUCH happier with the selection and availability of top quality 7mm rounds vs. 8mm for handloading.

rcmodel
November 6, 2011, 08:39 PM
SAAMI spec for 8mm Mauser is 35,000 PSI.
SAAMI spec for 7mm Mauser is 51,000 PSI.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

Speer #13 from 1998 says the 7mm is 46,000 CUP and 8mm is 37,000 CUP.

The problem is, the "old" 8mm was orginally chambered in the .318" bore 1888 Mauser, and there are still a lot of them floating around.
Wouldn't do to slip a 55,000 PSI, .323" bullet commercial round in one of those old boys!

The "new" 7x57mm Mauser was introduced in the "new" and stronger 1893 Mauser, which is safe with the current pressure standard.

SAAMI does not take into account the much stronger 8x57mm 98 Mauser or Remington 700 Classic we might actually want to shoot at full potential.

rc

wlewisiii
November 6, 2011, 09:39 PM
I prefer 7 mauser myself. Cheap ammo is called reloading. Dies, brass, cast lead bullets, LR primers & your favorite powder and be done with it. If it's a stock military barrel, use heavy bullets (168, 175 gr.) and if it's sporter use lighter bullets (139/140 gr.).

Limey46
November 6, 2011, 09:40 PM
Nobody's mentioned this yet, so I will. Prvi Partizan makes excellent 7mm Mauser ammo and AIM Surplus sells it cheap(ish). My FN 49 loves it.

wlewisiii
November 6, 2011, 10:04 PM
MidwayUSA carries it too. It's the only factory load I'll buy between cost and loading issues. Plus it's excellent brass for reloading :)

NCsmitty
November 6, 2011, 10:40 PM
Some of the European ammo makers load the 8x57 Mauser a bit hotter than domestic US ammo makers. Sellier & Bellot lists a 196gr @ 2600fps and Wolf Gold has a 196gr @ 2500 and those numbers are much better than the anemic US loads.
Nosler Custom has some good 8x57 ammo, but at $52 a box, it's a bit pricey.

It's hard to beat your own reloads in 8x57 Mauser, and can match the 30'06 in performance, with a bullet of your choice.


NCsmitty

Vaarok
November 7, 2011, 12:49 AM
Personally, I really just prefer the 7x57 as a hunting cartridge. There's miniscule difference, but I find 7mm more pleasant to shoot. Surplus ammo's almost nonexistant, though.

WardenWolf
November 7, 2011, 08:16 AM
As stated before, go PRVI Partizan. Pretty much all their stuff is loaded to military specs, and they even make a match 8mm round. I've got a pair of World War II-era Mausers in 8mm, a German and a Turk. I find they're both very pleasant to shoot with the PRVI ammo. 8mm is such a devastating round, too. Few people realize how far it outperforms old standbys like .30-06 and 7mm Rem. Mag, and that it does so despite having very good recoil characteristics.

highlander 5
November 7, 2011, 08:39 AM
I belive Norma loads their 7 and 8 mm Mauser ammo on the warm side.

morcey2
November 7, 2011, 08:42 AM
One caveat w/ Prvi Partizan and 8mm. They have two different loadings, one marked '8mm Mauser' and the other marked '8x57 IS'. The first is for US consumption and is lightly loaded, but not quite as much as the domestic stuff. Most of the rounds available are 196 grains at 2180 fps, while the european loadings are 2460 fps. I haven't seen the 'IS' boxes available here, but apparently they show up occasionally. The biggest benefit to using the PPU rounds is that the bullet had a much better BC than the domestic loads.

As for 7mm, they all are loaded the same. Which is good. I picked up 4 boxes of it at Cabela's a year or so ago when they went on sale for $14/box.

Also, with the 7mm. (I think this was mentioned earlier, but I'm not sure...) if you're using a surplus rifle w/ the original barrel, it'll probably shoot better with heavier bullets (160 grain+) than the 139/140 grain standard rounds. That said, my 7mm mex mauser sporter shoots them both very well.

So split the difference and get a 7.65x53 Argie. :neener:

Matt

SaxonPig
November 7, 2011, 08:49 AM
All American ammo is loaded down to varying degrees. European ammo tends to be much hotter.

I have some Austrian 7x57 dated 1970 loaded with 139 grain BT FMJ bullets that clocked 2925 FPS from the 24" barrel of my custom M98 that I sold to a friend a few years back. This stuff is amazingly consistent running no more than 5 fps variation. I would not have thought that even possible but this is what I saw.

BTW- The 8x57 is a good caliber hampered a bit by the lack of variety in bullet selection. IMO the 7 is a better choice if you reload as there are more choices in bullets. Also, the 7x57 is maybe the best CF rifle cartridge ever designed. A perfect balance of power, long range capabilities, and mild recoil. I have several rifles in 7x57 and love them all.


http://www.fototime.com/13533652253A49D/standard.jpg


http://www.fototime.com/E8CD1A8074154CD/standard.jpg


http://www.fototime.com/2B252A97154B18D/standard.jpg

hipoint
November 7, 2011, 09:52 AM
thanks guys, that was some good information! I'll probably just stick with my old standby 8mm. I was just curious if they downloaded the 7mm as well.

I keep on thinking about getting into reloading, but I'm not a precision paper puncher and really I only shoot my guns for hunting, so ammo lasts quite a while with me. I figure to get everything I need to get started in reloading I'd spend about $500 bucks for cheap stuff, that same $500 dollars would buy enough ammo for me to shoot for quite a while so that's why I keep talking myself out of it. That and the fact that I live in a temperate rain forest so our humidity level is stupid high all the time... I think I would have a heck of a time keeping powder good in this environment. I have a hard enough time keeping my guns from rusting.

LoonWulf
November 7, 2011, 10:43 PM
lee kit cost me less then 100, Dies for the rounds you want to shoot regularly should be 20 apiece, misc should come out to less then 50. I live in hawaii, rains every night and fogs ever afternoon and in the morning. My powder is fine, my rifles on the other hand are slowly getting painted to save on the oiling.

Beak50
November 8, 2011, 04:55 AM
I Love reloading for my M-48 yugo,I use 150gr.Hornady sp' and Nosler Custom comp 200 gr. along with 200gr. Accubond,s from Nosler with Remington Brass and cci250 Primers.The Nosler's Is what it like's best for some reason"I'm thinking the weight".I can't hunt anymore due to physical limitation's so reloading and target shooting are what I do now.Also I'd like to thank NCsmitty for all the knowledge I've learned and put to use from him.I'd like to run into him at a gun show.

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