littleguns223
November 9, 2011, 09:27 PM
Does anybody have a good load for the 38spl using missouri 125gr tc bullet hardness of 12? I am having problem using bullseye. Cant get the charge right having a leading problem
leading problem
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Bmac1949
November 9, 2011, 09:40 PM
I don't know about the 38spl but I had the same problem with my 1911 leading up. I started out using MBC 200gr swc over 4 grains of Bullseye and ended up using 5gr before the leading was under control. Apearently it takes that much powder to get the bullet to seal the barrel so that hot gasses won't melt the lead (if this isn't right I'm sure someone will explain). So, you might try upping the charge if it is still within the limits of you loading manual. Hope this helps.
16in50calNavalRifle
November 9, 2011, 09:54 PM
littleguns, what's the revolver being used? I think that's a key part of the discussion.
Funny, I was thinking of posting something very similar, and ask the folks here about my hunch.
In my case it's a K-frame S&W (Model 66), using almost exactly the same load (MBC 125 - Cowboy #17, except Trail Boss or HP38 instead of BE). The leading I have experienced is limited to some flecks/spots, plus sometimes just a faint hint of a wash, around and just past the cone. I haven't been able to confirm it as I haven't had enough test rounds to fire in order from lighter to heavier charge and then the reverse, but it seems that some leading occurs no matter the size of the charge (I have gone from just above starting to max load for both powders).
Like bmac says, leading near the cone can mean the barrel hasn't sealed and gases are burning/depositing some lead. But I was wondering if in my case it might be a result of bullet size as opposed to charge level.
Is it possible that the MBC 125 LRNFPs are so short that the gases are getting out ahead of the bullet as it jumps from the cylinder to the cone? And that this might be true even if the bullet is achieving a good seal with the bore as it proceeds past the cone? So that my solution would lie in a combo of the right charge, but also the longer/larger bullet.
As I was about to try larger (158 grain SWCs) bullets anyway, perhaps I'll get my answer. But I'd be interested in the views of experienced lead shooters here (and yes I did do some searching but did not find anything directly on my question, though I might have overlooked something).
Funny, I was thinking of posting something very similar, and ask the folks here about my hunch.
In my case it's a K-frame S&W (Model 66), using almost exactly the same load (MBC 125 - Cowboy #17, except Trail Boss or HP38 instead of BE). The leading I have experienced is limited to some flecks/spots, plus sometimes just a faint hint of a wash, around and just past the cone. I haven't been able to confirm it as I haven't had enough test rounds to fire in order from lighter to heavier charge and then the reverse, but it seems that some leading occurs no matter the size of the charge (I have gone from just above starting to max load for both powders).
Like bmac says, leading near the cone can mean the barrel hasn't sealed and gases are burning/depositing some lead. But I was wondering if in my case it might be a result of bullet size as opposed to charge level.
Is it possible that the MBC 125 LRNFPs are so short that the gases are getting out ahead of the bullet as it jumps from the cylinder to the cone? And that this might be true even if the bullet is achieving a good seal with the bore as it proceeds past the cone? So that my solution would lie in a combo of the right charge, but also the longer/larger bullet.
As I was about to try larger (158 grain SWCs) bullets anyway, perhaps I'll get my answer. But I'd be interested in the views of experienced lead shooters here (and yes I did do some searching but did not find anything directly on my question, though I might have overlooked something).
zxcvbob
November 9, 2011, 10:09 PM
Another possible fix is giving the bullets a thin coat of Lee Liquid Alox.
Does the leading actually build up and/or hurt accuracy? My .41 Mag leads with moderate cast bullet loads, but it doesn't build up and it doesn't hurt anything, so I *try* not to worry about it.
Does the leading actually build up and/or hurt accuracy? My .41 Mag leads with moderate cast bullet loads, but it doesn't build up and it doesn't hurt anything, so I *try* not to worry about it.
StandingTall
November 10, 2011, 07:34 AM
Does anybody have a good load for the 38spl using missouri 125gr tc bullet hardness of 12? I am having problem using bullseye. Cant get the charge right having a leading problem
In another post, you stated you were using HP-38 for your 9mm loads. I suggest using the same powder for your 38spl loads. I also load 9mm and .38spl and use HP-38 for both. No problems here.
In another post, you stated you were using HP-38 for your 9mm loads. I suggest using the same powder for your 38spl loads. I also load 9mm and .38spl and use HP-38 for both. No problems here.
USSR
November 10, 2011, 08:12 AM
Does anybody have a good load for the 38spl using missouri 125gr tc bullet hardness of 12? I am having problem using bullseye. Cant get the charge right having a leading problem
littleguns223,
Your problem no doubt lies with the bullet being too small for your cylinder throats and the bullet being too hard. That's the problem with store bought lead bullets (one size fits all), and the reason I cast my own.
Don
littleguns223,
Your problem no doubt lies with the bullet being too small for your cylinder throats and the bullet being too hard. That's the problem with store bought lead bullets (one size fits all), and the reason I cast my own.
Don
Hondo 60
November 10, 2011, 09:44 PM
Leading can be caused by several factors.
Driving a bullet too fast is just one.
Driving it too slow can leave leading as well.
But the one reason many overlook is that the bullet is not correctly sized for your chambers & throats.
Have you slugged your chambers and barrel?
I know this is getting beyond some shooters.
But if your chamber throats aren't perfectly round, or aren't all the same size, or are smaller than the barrel, this will cause leading.
A cheap fix is to get a pure copper chor-boy.
Take one strand and wrap it around a bore brush or mop.
I clean normally using Hoppe's #9.
After I'm done I use a bore light.
If there's any leading just 5 or 6 swipes & the lead is gone.
Hope this helps.
Driving a bullet too fast is just one.
Driving it too slow can leave leading as well.
But the one reason many overlook is that the bullet is not correctly sized for your chambers & throats.
Have you slugged your chambers and barrel?
I know this is getting beyond some shooters.
But if your chamber throats aren't perfectly round, or aren't all the same size, or are smaller than the barrel, this will cause leading.
A cheap fix is to get a pure copper chor-boy.
Take one strand and wrap it around a bore brush or mop.
I clean normally using Hoppe's #9.
After I'm done I use a bore light.
If there's any leading just 5 or 6 swipes & the lead is gone.
Hope this helps.
bds
November 10, 2011, 10:57 PM
More info on cause/prevention/removal of leading (see Chapter 7) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=615067
Here's an exceprt from Chapter 7:
Leading is the number one fear that most non-casters have that prevents them from starting to cast their own bullets. Part of the problem is however, that many of these would-be casters aren't really even sure what "leading" really is, or what causes it; it's just something they've heard, or read, about, and they understand that it can have a negative impact on a gun's accuracy. It is basic human nature to fear the unknown. Some shooters experiment with commercial cast bullets to see how they work and find foreign looking deposits in their barrels and think it must be leading, when in fact it's just residual bullet lube. Sometimes these shooters will experience legitimate leading at intermediate velocities (say 1000 fps or so) and wrongly assume that these deposits would be more severe at higher velocities, and just give up on cast bullets in general. The purpose of this chapter is to define what leading is, what it's root causes are, how a shooter can avoid it, and if afflicted, how a shooter can remove it easily; in short, to dispel the unknown.
Definition of leading. Leading is the deposition of significant amounts of bullet metal on the bore. It can take many forms -- streaks, chunks, splotches, films, etc. (more on this in a minute). It's important to recognize that the mere presence of streaks in the bore is not an indication of leading; many types of bullet lube (especially the commercial hard lubes) leave perfectly innocuous streaks in the barrel that have no negative impact on firearm performance (if a wet patch removes the deposit, it probably wasn't lead). Nor is a gray "haze" on the bore surface necessarily a problem; it can be an indication of a leading problem, but it can also be simply a reflection of the alloy of barrel steel used, how the rifling was cut, or a reflection that the barrel isn't "broken in" yet. The inexperienced cast bullet shooter commonly (and falsely) believes that leading has but a single cause -- the bullet was too soft for the velocity, and lead was stripped off the bullet as it raced down the bore. To this novice shooter, the only solution to leading is to cast the bullet harder, which may solve the problem, but in many cases it won't (and in certain cases it will actually make the leading worse). If the harder bullets don't solve his leading problem, the novice generally walks away thinking that it's impossible to shoot cast bullets without leading a barrel, when in fact the real problem is simply one of misdiagnosis. So let's look at some of the firearm and ammunition issues involved in leading, so our forensic examination of a leaded revolver can provide an accurate diagnosis of the cause.
Here's an exceprt from Chapter 7:
Leading is the number one fear that most non-casters have that prevents them from starting to cast their own bullets. Part of the problem is however, that many of these would-be casters aren't really even sure what "leading" really is, or what causes it; it's just something they've heard, or read, about, and they understand that it can have a negative impact on a gun's accuracy. It is basic human nature to fear the unknown. Some shooters experiment with commercial cast bullets to see how they work and find foreign looking deposits in their barrels and think it must be leading, when in fact it's just residual bullet lube. Sometimes these shooters will experience legitimate leading at intermediate velocities (say 1000 fps or so) and wrongly assume that these deposits would be more severe at higher velocities, and just give up on cast bullets in general. The purpose of this chapter is to define what leading is, what it's root causes are, how a shooter can avoid it, and if afflicted, how a shooter can remove it easily; in short, to dispel the unknown.
Definition of leading. Leading is the deposition of significant amounts of bullet metal on the bore. It can take many forms -- streaks, chunks, splotches, films, etc. (more on this in a minute). It's important to recognize that the mere presence of streaks in the bore is not an indication of leading; many types of bullet lube (especially the commercial hard lubes) leave perfectly innocuous streaks in the barrel that have no negative impact on firearm performance (if a wet patch removes the deposit, it probably wasn't lead). Nor is a gray "haze" on the bore surface necessarily a problem; it can be an indication of a leading problem, but it can also be simply a reflection of the alloy of barrel steel used, how the rifling was cut, or a reflection that the barrel isn't "broken in" yet. The inexperienced cast bullet shooter commonly (and falsely) believes that leading has but a single cause -- the bullet was too soft for the velocity, and lead was stripped off the bullet as it raced down the bore. To this novice shooter, the only solution to leading is to cast the bullet harder, which may solve the problem, but in many cases it won't (and in certain cases it will actually make the leading worse). If the harder bullets don't solve his leading problem, the novice generally walks away thinking that it's impossible to shoot cast bullets without leading a barrel, when in fact the real problem is simply one of misdiagnosis. So let's look at some of the firearm and ammunition issues involved in leading, so our forensic examination of a leaded revolver can provide an accurate diagnosis of the cause.
murf
November 11, 2011, 10:26 AM
if the bullet is bevel-based, you are probably going to have a leading problem that won't go away. just clean the lead out when it gets bad and keep on shooting.
murf
murf
kelbro
November 11, 2011, 12:10 PM
Some barrels lead lightly up to a certain point and then quit. If you keep cleaning all the lead away, it keeps leading.
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