[Balog]

So I'm out for an early morning walk with my beloved wife, and the subject of hunting came up. I was saying how much I missed it, that I wanted to shoot the ducks and geese in the pond we were walking around etc. Her response was a vigorous "Well, when does deer season start?" I was a little taken aback. I explained that it would probably be expensive to get tags, a deer rifle, enough ammo and range time to be proficient, and that I didn't know how to butcher a deer. I started to explain that I was thinking of getting into varmint hunting when she cut me off. She said (and this is the great part) that she didn't care about the cost, and that she really wanted me to "shoot something I can cook." :what: I tell you, I got a good one. :D

P.S. Oh, and she liked the idea of cooking up an elk even more than a deer. :)

[WYO]

Well, I don't know what deer tags cost in "directly below date registered," but you can buy rifle/scope combination packages for a lot less than most people spend on a big name semi-auto pistol or tactical black rifle. The scope will be something you eventually will want to replace, but you will be in the game for around $400.

The harder part is finding someone to show you the ropes. If you could post a more precise location, I'm sure there are people on THR and other forums who would be glad to point you in the right direction.

On the subject of keepers, my wife encouraged me to buy my first hunting gun with the proceeds from returned wedding gifts, 25 years ago.

[Balog]

Hello WYO. Sorry, I forget that I don't show where I'm at in my profile. I live in Arizona. I posted the following two threads about my hopes of beginning to hunt varmints.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61784
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62015

As to affording a deer rifle....

I've been having trouble finding steady employment lately. Seems no one wants to hire someone who's going off to boot camp in a few months. :mad: What gun money we have is earmarked for getting my wife her CCW and a good pistol and concealment rig to go with it.

It sounds like you've been blessed in the wife department as well. Congratulations on making 25 years! In today's society that is becoming a sadly unusual event. :(

[redneck]

You don't need a "deer rifle" , don't you have a 12 gauge ? No reason you can't smack a deer with that and a good slug load.
I'm not all that familiar with the terrain out in Arizona but I was under the impression that it was pretty rough in some places. I'd think you could find where animals are going to water and set up a stand, or sit on the ground somewhere with a good shot along the trail coming in. You'd definitely be good for anthing out to 50 yards with a rifled slug. Maybe farther, it all depends on if you can find a brand your gun likes.
You don't have to go for the 400 yard shots across the plains.

Don't know what permits cost in Arizona but its not that expensive here. I'm planning on finally getting a license and all that together this year and I think deer tags are around $20 (for Ohio residents) Hunting license is about the same.

All that said, yep you've got a keeper there with your wife :D

[ACP230]

Neat story.

If you were here there'd be a few reasonably priced used deer rifles you could look over down at my favorite dealer's place. My best one is a used Ruger 77 that I got at a place up the street from his. Accurate and in .250 Savage which is hard to find. Single shots made by H&R come in deer and elk calibers and are fairly cheap. I don't favor them, but would use one in a pinch.

About work, have you checked out the temporary help joints?
When I was in college I made a few bucks that way.
Now I'm too set in my ways to do it.

The local paper has a lot of turnover in its paper prep department. They haven't run an ad in a few weeks, but it will be in again soon, I'm sure. The hours are bad, and stuffing ads into papers must be annoying but they are used to people checking in and out a lot.

[Balog]

Let me just clarify something. I don't know anything about hunting big game. I have a bit of experience stalking rabbits and gophers, but I've never had anyone to teach me about anything larger. A big part of my reluctance to go through the process of getting a permit (or tag or whatever one needs to go after deer here, I'm still checking on that) is that I don't think I would have a very good chance. I wasn't thinking about using a shottie, that's a good idea. I'd have to figure out how to plug the mag tube, tho. I think the regs say the capacity has to be limited to only two or three?

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it.

Edit for a bit of a sentence insufficiently deleted.

[twoblink]

Balog..

Rule #1 of hunting big game; have a big enough gun! (as much as I love .22LR's, that's not gonna do it.)

Rule #2 see it before it sees you

Rule #3 If it's charging at you.. you are SOL..

Rule #4 be sure you know what the big game looks like in the wild. They usually don't look like what you think they look like when they are in their natural environment.

Rule #5 have a plan B, and probably a backup gun on ya.

Rule #6 go to a butcher and start to take a few looks at them cow diagrams. Know where the major "high quality" entry points are (shoulder shots, heart shots etc...) so you can down the animal quickly and humanely...

Rule #7 ask Art, he's the Oracle here on THR... :D

[Balog]

twoblink: great advice. I have a couple questions tho.

Rule #4. How can I learn what the little buggers look like in the field?

Rule #7. Does that mean Art is actually a little old black woman who's a computer program?:eek: :p :p

[ACP230]

Since the 1940s there have probably been 500 books on deer hunting published. If the librarians out there haven't gone completely PC some should still be in the stacks.

Lots are available from Powells, Amazon and others internet book sellers.

Some that I learned a lot from when I was starting out are;

Shots At Whitetails by Larry Koller

Deer Hunting by Norman Strung

and a book by Francis E. Sell. (I don't see it on the shelves and don't remember the title.)

In magazines, Deer and Deer Hunting is pretty good.

I've done most of my hunting in Michigan, except for one trip to Utah.
Out there I could see almost forever compared to here. I still found it helpful to keep the wind in my face and move slowly and quietly.

[Art Eatman]

Best way I know about how to learn to hunt deer is to go hunt deer. You don't need a gun to go look for them. And you can go look for them any time it suits you and you have the free time...

SFAIK, most of Arizona's deer are mule deer, except for the Coues deer in southern Aridzony. Mule deer are interesting critters. They tend to laze around more than whitetails; they act like they just aren't as snoopy and curious about what goes on around them. My favorite method is to go to where a buck oughta be, and kick him out of bed.

In the more open and brushy country: Generally, they'll lay up on the downwind crest of a ridge. They won't be far from a saddle in the ridge. That way, anything coming over the ridge is behind its own smell, alerting the buck. Anything coming up from below, he can see or hear. When Bucky runs, he'll go into that saddle, avoiding being skylined and moving through the thicker brush. He'll go upwind, since he can smell any boogers ahead of him.

So, you climb up to the top of a ridge and ease along. You're going generally cross wind; if you're quiet, you can get fairly close before Bucky jumps and runs.

If you're in heavier timber, I've found bucks laying up at the uphill side or end of a clearing on a mountainside. Not far back in from the edge of the timber...

Now, all this stuff is generalizing. The big problem is that Bucky never read the book I wrote. :D

The mainest thing, really, is the learning how not to make any noise when you walk. And learning just what sort of clothing doesn't go, "Weeeep, weeeep..." when you rub past weeds and small brush. And camo ain't necessary; Bucky only sees shades of gray. Any old worn out khakis will do.

:), Art

[TallPine]

I don't know anything about hunting big game.
Well, just get out of town and go hiking around in deer country. Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn more than anyone can tell you. Look for tracks, and notice where the deer bed down and water.

Most of us "hunters" are out and about in the wilds most of the year - it's not a once a year event.

Um... if you're marching for Uncle Sam in a "few months" won't you be in uniform by the time deer season comes around next fall ....? :confused:

[Balog]

My wife has requested that, for Valentine's Day, I take her shooting. Just when I think she can't get any better :)

[sumpnz]

With the drought here in AZ the game and fish folks probably won't be issuing very many tags this year. 2002 was a record low for number of tags, and 2003 was even lower. My neighbor and I put in for tags last year in one of the historically highest draw-success rate units and were aced out :fire: . So was a co-worker of mine. So, if you don't have any bonus points, don't count on being drawn.

That was supposed to be my first hunt, ever. Hopefully this year I'll get drawn, but since I haven't yet taken the (optional for adults) hunter safety course (worth 1 perm. bonus point) and since I didn't get a bonus point for missing the draw (I elected to only get a hunting license if I was successful in the draw), I'm not going to hold my breath. (My plan is to hope to actually get drawn for deer, and get a bonus point for elk.)

That said, find somebody willing to show you the ropes. My neighbor would have done that had we been drawn, and for this year that same co-worker mentioned above has kindly agreed to do the same if we get drawn :cool: . The "ropes " would include everything from pre-season scouting, to what to bring (some items are more obvious than others), to how to stalk the deer, and how to clean it once it's dead.

You can read all you want, but at least I find that until I actually DO something, it's all academic, and having an old-hand to show you how it's really done is worth more than all 500 books published about deer hunting combined.

[rust collector]

Sumpnz, I have to agree that experience is the best teacher. However, one of the best parts of any hunting expedition for me is the anticipation and the runup to the actual event. I want to know about buck fever before the crosshairs start jumpin all over, my palms are sweaty, and my eyes start blurring. I want to know what I'm getting into. I want to know the country, where the deer are when, and how to get where they want to go, before they get there.

You've got a lot to do with your luck. Why not take the safety course and get the bonus point? You may pick up a useful nugget or two of info. And a small game or general license might be useful for some practice hunting of vermin. There are field dressing instructions galore on the web, videos, and books. And, as you've discovered, there is a lot of hard won experience here at THR. Don't limit your enjoyment to a week or two if you're lucky in the draw. Gear up, mentally and physically.

Yep, reading is nowhere near as fun as doing. But it gives us the tools to do a better job. And to make some decisions about the info our buddies are dishing out. They sometimes are heavy on smoke and light on fire!

[sumpnz]

rust_collector,

I've been trying to take the safety course, but right now, at least, there are not any offerings in Tucson (considering that it's usually 2-3 hours per session over 6-8 sessions going out of town is not an option). I'm hoping a course will be offered here before I have to apply for the draw so that I can at least get the one bonus point.

I have my hunting license now, and a .22, so rabbits are going to be on the menu this weekend! :evil:

Considering that the draw takes place in July, with hunting starting in late Oct., if I'm successful, I intend to do probably 2 pre-season scouting trips in the unit I get the tag for (probably one in mid-September, and one in early-mid Oct). I rather doubt I'd have the time for much more than that, espically considering that my wife is due to have our first baby in just a couple of months. But, I do certainly agree that the more you get "out there" the more likely you are to be successful, and more importantly the more likely you are to have a fun time.

[Balog]

Tallpine: well whattya know, so I will. I leave in August (shoulda been January, dammit), and I didn't know when the season was. D'oh!

Hmmm, mountain lion starts in July, tho.:evil: I hear they're pretty tasty.

[ksnecktieman]

Maybe you should try to get live advice. Any gun shop, or shooting range is going to have hunters around, that will be happy to give advice (all advice is just an opinion, you will get lots of different opinions) Listen and learn. Tell them you have never been hunting and want to. You may find a volunteer to take you out and show you where to go and what to look for.

If you just go out and walk around where you can hunt, and watch for tracks and animals you will learn a lot. One thing you will learn is that animals have preferred paths, and if they walk one route tonight there is a good chance they will walk it tomorrow night.

[Balog]

ksnecktieman: you're right. I'm probably over-thinking this. I've always been a bit anxious about starting into a new activity (shooting, driving, etc). I need to just get out there and start learning the land. Yet another reason to hate living in the city. [/sigh]
I'd love to get live advice, but I never know how to approach people about stuff like this. Darn my poor social skills. :banghead:

[sumpnz]

Balog, Here's a thought. Once you're in the military you're bound to run into tons of people that grew up hunting. Once you get settled in wherever you are stationed, ask around to find out who those people are, and then apply for permits (if necessary for the state you're stationed in) and have them take you out and show you how it's done. Most of those (military) guys that I've met are happy to introduce newbies (including me) to hunting, and I've never even been in the military.

In the mean time, the advice on hiking around deer country is worth following. At the very least, when you actually get out with someone to hunt Bambi, they'll be impressed with the effort.

[Balog]

sumpnz: good advice, but I wanna kill stuff now! Hehe.

[ACP230]

Balog:
Is the javalina season still in progress there?

They're look like small pigs.
People hunt them with handguns and .30 Carbines. Varmit rifles are also used, I hear.
I've never hunted these critters but always wanted to.
A copy of the game regulations from a sporting goods store, or a visit to the AZ Fish & Game (DNR) website would tell you if they're still legal game.

I've heard they are great barbecued, and that some people don't care for them. I'd like to try them barbecued myself.

[sumpnz]

It's way to late to get a pig tag here. Applications closed back in October. They have what they call a HAM (Handgun Archery Muzzelloader) hunt for javalinas here. The magnum revolvers are fairly commonly used for that, though a guy at work said my .40S&W would also work. There are also rifle hunts, but I think the HAM is probably most popular.

From what I've been told javalina are about the stinkiest critters out there. And that's just on the outside :barf:

However, I've been told that if they are prepared correctly, they can be tasty. The hard part, supposedly, is seperating the musk gland without it spoiling the meat.

AZ hunting regs can be found at http://www.gf.state.az.us/pdfs/h_f/fall_hunt_regs.pdf and http://www.gf.state.az.us/pdfs/h_f/spring_hunt_regs.pdf

Those are are the 2003-2004 regs. 2004-2005 regs should be posted sometime in April, I think. Maybe March, but not later than the end of April.