Your opinion on Makarov as a carry weapon ?


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Wanderling
November 21, 2011, 09:41 PM
Makarov, from everything I read, seems to be a very reliable gun. It's also fairly inexpensive - the new ones seem to go for around $280. That's about the range of Bersa / Taurus. But Mak seems to have a special reputation for ruggedness and reliability.

So, the question - would it make a good carry gun ? I.e. is it compact enough, and is the round powerful enough for self defense (assuming use of JHP ammo).

Also if you have any recommendations on where to find them at a better price.

Thanks !

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mgmorden
November 21, 2011, 09:49 PM
I have one of the Imez commercial Makarov's in .380 that I occasionally carry. It works fine, but I have a few issues with it (none of them show stoppers). For one, its wide for what it is. Don't get me wrong IN GENERAL it's a thin gun, but some of the new polymer single stacks squeeze a 9mm into a thinner gun (ie, a Kahr CW9, Ruger LC9, Keltec PF9, etc).

Mine also has some uncomfortable points - when holstered, the safety and to a lesser degree the lanyard ring rub on my side. That could be solved with some holsters (and replacement grips for the lanyard ring), but it is uncomfortable. When drawn, the underside of the trigger guard also is a bit sharp. It's never cut me, but it is uncomfortable. This might just be an issue on mine though as mine is a commercial Mak which I heard is a bit rougher than the military ones.

All in all though, like I said: no show stoppers. They're extremely reliable and I have no qualms with the round they fire.

As to price, I know Wideners has the Bulgarian Makarovs for $219:

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000214&dir=700|1012|1026

Wanderling
November 21, 2011, 09:53 PM
Wow, thanks ! This is the best price I've seen yet. Definitely something to think about.

vellocet
November 21, 2011, 09:54 PM
I like the way Wideners is showing a pa-63 manual with the Mak. The two guns are completely different. The pictured pistol looks pretty beat-up,too. True about the commercial russian mak, tho, it is my least-liked pistol using the 9x18 round.

mgmorden
November 21, 2011, 10:02 PM
There's a picture of a PA-63 on the manual. If you read the cover though it's a combo manual for several guns including both the PA-63 and the Makarov distributed by CAI (the importer). They likely just save a good bit of cash combining the printing jobs (and a lot of the standard CYA stuff like firearms safety is the same regardless).

As to the condition - the pictured one looks fine to my eyes. Pretty standard wear for a military/surplus gun.

Wanderling
November 21, 2011, 10:08 PM
What would you recommend, then ?

I don't want to spend more than $300. The reason being, I've already bought a gun this year, my primarily intent was range / home defense rather than CCW. So I got a Glock 17. I really like it and I will be carrying it whenever I feel like it / am dressed appropriately etc. But it's probably too sizeable for EDC.

G19 isn't that much smaller. G26 has way too small of a grip. Both are another $500.

I shot a friends' stubnose Taurus and I hated the short grip.

Mak is inexpensive, has a full size grip yet seems to be small enough for easy and comfortable concealment. And it's supposed to be dead reliable. I wouldn't trust any $200+ gun with my life, but the combination of cheap+reliable is very tempting.

The wear doesn't bother me as much. I would hate to scratch my new $500 gun, but a bit of holster wear on a EDC cheap gun is OK.

What else is out there to consider ?

rule303
November 21, 2011, 10:20 PM
I carry a PA-63. Different gun, same idea. Large enough to shoot accurately, small enough to carry comfortably, reliable as heck, and cheap. The 9x18 round is no powerhouse, but has proven itself capable.

dovedescending
November 21, 2011, 10:21 PM
Consider the CZ 82 if you're interested in the Mak. Same ammo, similar size and weight, but with the added advantage of being able to carry 12+1, a button release for the magazine instead of a heel catch, and a DA/SA setup that allows you to carry in condition 1 if you wish.

gbran
November 21, 2011, 10:23 PM
The Mak is a great platform. They are small enough and reliable. It comes down to whether you feel comfortable with the cartridge.

Wanderling
November 21, 2011, 10:29 PM
I guess I am comfortable with the cartridge. It's supposed to be slightly more powerful than .38, but closer to it than to 9mm Luger. To me it sounds like with a JHP ammo it's going to give any potential attacker some serious headache. I don't think I would want to be shot with .22 let alone a bigger caliber. I know there's a lot of people out there who would feel naked with anything less than .40, but if Mak was good enough for the Eastern Block police and military, it should be good enough for self defense me thinks.

mgmorden
November 21, 2011, 11:17 PM
I wouldn't personally look at the CZ-82 for concealed carry. I may just be overly picky, but to me my CZ-82 feels a LOT wider then the Makarov. Only possible way I'd think about carrying it would be in a pancake holster under a coat. Definitely not IWB like I wear the Mak. Aside from concealability though, the CZ-82 is definitely a great value.

bdb benzino
November 22, 2011, 12:15 AM
The Mal is great for CC if you are on a budget.

TehK1w1
November 22, 2011, 12:47 AM
It's an accurate, very reliable gun. It's perfectly adequate for CC as long as you are willing to accept it's shortcomings. Downsides are large size and weight for it's caliber and capacity, and ammo can be hard to find locally.

PabloJ
November 22, 2011, 01:42 AM
I have one of the Imez commercial Makarov's in .380 that I occasionally carry. It works fine, but I have a few issues with it (none of them show stoppers). For one, its wide for what it is. Don't get me wrong IN GENERAL it's a thin gun, but some of the new polymer single stacks squeeze a 9mm into a thinner gun (ie, a Kahr CW9, Ruger LC9, Keltec PF9, etc).

Mine also has some uncomfortable points - when holstered, the safety and to a lesser degree the lanyard ring rub on my side. That could be solved with some holsters (and replacement grips for the lanyard ring), but it is uncomfortable. When drawn, the underside of the trigger guard also is a bit sharp. It's never cut me, but it is uncomfortable. This might just be an issue on mine though as mine is a commercial Mak which I heard is a bit rougher than the military ones.

All in all though, like I said: no show stoppers. They're extremely reliable and I have no qualms with the round they fire.

As to price, I know Wideners has the Bulgarian Makarovs for $219:

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000214&dir=700|1012|1026
It took < 10minutes with wire cutter and flat metal file to take care of the so called shortcomings. Metal hand saw could be used instead of wire cutter.

mgmorden
November 22, 2011, 03:33 AM
It took < 10minutes with wire cutter and flat metal file to take care of the so called shortcomings. Metal hand saw could be used instead of wire cutter.

You removed the safety and decreased the gun's width with a metal file? You're good :).

In all seriousness though, I don't want to remove the lanyard ring on the existing grips, so that's out. I'll eventually get replacement grips to take care of that problem I also don't want to take a file to the trigger guard as they'll mar the finish. Just personally, aside from more or less drop-in replacement/upgrade parts, I usually try to avoid any home-gunsmithing on my guns.

WardenWolf
November 22, 2011, 04:16 AM
Speaking from personal experience going that route (and I started my own thread nearly identical to this):

A Makarov is a fine gun. Accurate, reliable, and with an excellent pull-down safety and hammer block until the trigger is pulled. However, it is a little large for concealed carry (particularly in handle length) and maybe a little heavy. It also greatly benefits from a Wolff heavy recoil spring.

A good alternative, however, is the Polish P-64. It fires the same round, but is quite a bit smaller and more concealable. They're also incredibly cheap, around $170. Its downside is its very heavy double action trigger pull and small sights, as well as rather rude recoil. However, a set of Wolff springs and some SiteGlo paint mostly solve these problems. This is what both I and my father both carry.

If you want new grips, Marschal Grips (http://www.marschalgrips.com) are available for BOTH the Makarov and the P-64. These will dramatically improve the look and feel of the gun. They're a MUST for the P-64, as they also serve to make it more comfortable to shoot.

Cactus Jack Arizona
November 22, 2011, 04:45 AM
I have two Russian Commercial Makarovs and both of them are great to shoot. I don't have any issues with either of them and they perform beautifully. I'm not really sure what sharp edges the other poster was talking about. Mine are both clean as whistles.

It is not a pocket pistol by any stretch of the imagination. They are of considerable weight, 27oz. Not sure if that is without the magazine or with a full magazine. However, with a Pearce rubber grip installed it is one of my favorite CCW pistols. If my back is not bothering me I carry it roughly 95% of the time.

If used for SD, you must pay attention to the ammo brand and type while practicing. In my Maks for instance, Wolf FMJ, Silver Bear FMJ and HP's, and the Hornady XTP HP function great. However, I have accuracy issues when using Brown Bear FMJ.

Keep in mind, most of the ballistic tests I've seen online do not put a favorable light on the expansion of the Silver Bear HP's. Since I am not a ballistics expert and not able to perform such tests myself, I am only reporting what I have seen online. Your results may vary.

J&G Sales usually has Bulgarian Makarovs, however their price escapes me at this late hour. Good luck.

1911Tuner
November 22, 2011, 06:00 AM
Sure. Why not? Its ballistics are similar to the .38 Special, and while nobody would accuse it of being the Hammer of Thor, it's not exactly anemic or ineffectual, either.

I've heard horror stories of tweaked-up bad guys absorbing multiple body hits with .38s without effect...but those would likely have happened with .357 Magnums under the same circumstances.

robinkevin
November 22, 2011, 08:35 AM
What would you recommend, then ?

I don't want to spend more than $300. The reason being, I've already bought a gun this year, my primarily intent was range / home defense rather than CCW. So I got a Glock 17. I really like it and I will be carrying it whenever I feel like it / am dressed appropriately etc. But it's probably too sizeable for EDC.

G19 isn't that much smaller. G26 has way too small of a grip. Both are another $500.

I shot a friends' stubnose Taurus and I hated the short grip.

Mak is inexpensive, has a full size grip yet seems to be small enough for easy and comfortable concealment. And it's supposed to be dead reliable. I wouldn't trust any $200+ gun with my life, but the combination of cheap+reliable is very tempting.

The wear doesn't bother me as much. I would hate to scratch my new $500 gun, but a bit of holster wear on a EDC cheap gun is OK.

What else is out there to consider ?
I would suggest you look into the Ruger LC9 or Kel Tec PF9 or P11... The Ruger will run you a little over $300 new but has a little better fit and finish. The Kel Tec PF9 is a fine little thin 9mm which you can always get a extended mag or grip extension for these small autos. Also this way your CC will fire the same ammo as your Glock 17.

My fear of the 9x18 pistols is look at a lot of the other import pistols that shoot surplus ammo, the surplus is drying up and now they can't find ammo. I don't see this ever being an issue with 9x19 ammo.

Also remember that $500 Glock is a tool, thats why Glock didn't spend much time making it pretty, its all about function and being built to last. Basically a Glock is design to be used not be a safe queen.

Pilot
November 22, 2011, 08:37 AM
I carry a Bulgarian Makarov sometimes, and also use it as a "car gun". It never hiccups, and is a pretty slim pistol, especially with the original, red star, military grips.

Blackhawk30
November 22, 2011, 08:50 AM
I've carried a Makarov since the early 90's.I am currently carrying a Russian comercial in 9x18.I have never had a jam with any of the Maks I've owned and shot.All are in 9x18.I have a rubber Pearce grip on mine.I hate the plastic ones that come with them.I carry it an a Wild Bill's Concealment rig.I bought 100 magazine @1.00 each back in the day.I'll never run out.The Mak is easier to shoot than a snubby revolver.Its also a throw away gun if it comes to that.

mgmorden
November 22, 2011, 09:20 AM
My fear of the 9x18 pistols is look at a lot of the other import pistols that shoot surplus ammo, the surplus is drying up and now they can't find ammo

Most of the 9x18 being sold isn't surplus. It's imported Russian commercial ammo. As long as people keep buying they'll keep making it.

Besides - I typically don't shoot a lot of the imported stuff like that or surplus anyways (I don't like steel cased ammo nor corrosive ammo), and I've still not had any trouble feeding my 9x18's or 7.62x25's.

robinkevin
November 22, 2011, 09:25 AM
I thought we was in some kind of trade blockade with Russia which kept use from importing their firearms... but their ammo is fine? I mean that's what killed the MP-412 REX revolver and why we can't get the MP-443 Grach.

Either way good to know... maybe I shall look into one once again down the road.

woad_yurt
November 22, 2011, 09:26 AM
The Makarov is a fantastic pistol and it's definitely carry-able with a decent holster. It's about as powerful as a .38 SPL and it'll last you for the rest of your days. I've owned three and still have one and all have been perfectly reliable. It's the only semi that I have found to be as reliable as a good revolver.*

The Feg PA63 is another great gun, very lightweight. I recommend a spring swap, though, as the originals are way too stiff. Also, there's a thumb rest on the left grip which makes it a bit too thick for my tastes. But, there are flat grips available.

* I did have one jam. I went to the range with a few people once and met up with a few more when we got there. In an attempt to make that gun jam, we shot about 450 rounds of Wolf soot-makers through it without any cleaning. It did then jam but we kept shooting for another 200 or so after that, without failure. The gun looked like the inside of a diesel tailpipe but kept on going.

mgmorden
November 22, 2011, 09:29 AM
I thought we was in some kind of trade blockade with Russia which kept use from importing their firearms... but their ammo is fine? I mean that's what killed the MP-412 REX revolver and why we can't get the MP-443 Grach.

The trade issue prohibits the import of SOME Russian firearms (IIRC, it's whatever we deem "non-sporting"). Others like hunting rifles and the like can still come in. Ammo can still come in fine.

sarge83
November 22, 2011, 09:38 AM
I carried a Bulgarian Mak for several years. Felt well armed and was carrying it the only time I had to draw in dangerous situation.

robinkevin
November 22, 2011, 10:27 AM
The trade issue prohibits the import of SOME Russian firearms (IIRC, it's whatever we deem "non-sporting"). Others like hunting rifles and the like can still come in. Ammo can still come in fine.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

JERRY
November 22, 2011, 01:30 PM
the mak is a good weapon, but if belt carry is the mode, id suggest a RIA compact.

PabloJ
November 22, 2011, 02:00 PM
You removed the safety and decreased the gun's width with a metal file? You're good :).

In all seriousness though, I don't want to remove the lanyard ring on the existing grips, so that's out. I'll eventually get replacement grips to take care of that problem I also don't want to take a file to the trigger guard as they'll mar the finish. Just personally, aside from more or less drop-in replacement/upgrade parts, I usually try to avoid any home-gunsmithing on my guns.
Just took off loop in the grip I'm left handed. I have eight mags plus few boxes of Fiocchi JHPs that I bought at Gander Mountain closeout price of $19/50. I'm very satisfied with this inexpensive but well put together weapon.

vellocet
November 22, 2011, 02:52 PM
For the size, you can get real nines about the same size and weight of a cz82. I would rather have a pa-63 than a commercial mak. I would rather have a military mak than a pa63. Wht not a p64? Cheap, small and accurate. Hey mgmorden, Widners should hire you.

Dr_2_B
November 22, 2011, 03:13 PM
I haven't carried my makarov much over the years (almost never) but not because I don't think it'd be a fine ccw piece. I'd think a guy'd be well equipped carrying one.

Dean1818
November 22, 2011, 04:11 PM
The biggest concern that I would have is the lack of quality JHP.

Some of the tested rounds I have seen did not expand. Which is a huge problem
For defense loads.

The CZ82 is an awesome gun though

doc540
November 22, 2011, 04:51 PM
To answer the OP's original question:

No, I wouldn't carry or rely on the Makarov round for self defense.

And I've owned them.

There are too many other inexpensive, higher-caliber concealed carry guns on the new/used market.

YMMV

gbelleh
November 22, 2011, 04:52 PM
I love Makarovs. I still carry my East German Mak occasionally, even though I have several "better options" available, including Kahr, Kel-Tec, Rohrbaugh, etc.

But, there's something special about the old Makarov that I enjoy. It's easy and comfortable to carry IWB, and 9 rounds of 115 grain Silver Bears in a totally reliable package makes for a good carry gun to me.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/gbelleh/3maks.jpg

WardenWolf
November 22, 2011, 05:33 PM
Buffalo Bore makes a NASTY 9x18 round if you're looking for extra power. Just make sure you install Wolff's heaviest mainspring if you intend to use this, though. Won't damage your gun any, but it will be rather rude to shoot.

Wanderling
November 22, 2011, 05:45 PM
Lovely trio. ;) The Mak is one of the classical guns, there's just something about it's lines that is very elegant and beautiful (for a gun anyway).

I looked at P64 but there's a lot of complaints about it having very rough triggers.

WardenWolf
November 22, 2011, 05:55 PM
Wanderling, with the spring kit, the first trigger pull is 18 pounds. After that, it's a VERY light trigger. I have my FEG PA-63 down to a 13-pound trigger pull on the first round, though. It's thinner and lighter than a Makarov, but longer. Beautiful little gun, though, with the silver alloy frame.

The Makarov has great lines, and points incredibly naturally. The trigger is also great. The Russians definitely hit upon a winner with that design. Amazingly simple, yet amazingly good in all respects. Accurate, great trigger, great safety, and completely reliable.

wnycollector
November 22, 2011, 07:41 PM
My first CCW was a Russian commercial MAK. As others have said, it was reliable, tough as nails and accurate. Loaded with the old wolf 100gr FMJ I never felt under gunned. That being said I think there are other better CCW choices out there for the same or less money. If you want to stay with the 9x18 the CZ-82 is a nice alternative if you want to go with a MAK sized gun and the P64 if you want a smaller package.

Deaf Smith
November 22, 2011, 09:01 PM
If all I had was one of my Maks, I'd be ok.

Sure I pack Glocks, but it's not the gun so much as what you can do with it.

And the Makarov is one of the better picks as for smaller autos. Right now the only competition I see with the Makarov is the Bersa (and it's a good little gun to.)

Deaf

Devonai
November 22, 2011, 09:46 PM
I love my IJ-70, and it gets a lot of carry time for ease of concealment and the ability to cram two spare mags into a single 9mm/40 mag pouch.

The_Armed_Therapist
November 22, 2011, 09:53 PM
http://www.jgsales.com/handguns-c-16_151.html Makarov
http://www.jgsales.com/handguns-c-16_235.html Tokarev
http://www.jgsales.com/handguns-c-16_155.html CZ Surplus
http://www.jgsales.com/handguns-c-16_385.html Polish P-64

Twmaster
December 10, 2011, 08:46 PM
I just bought a FEG PA63 at a gun show today. Lovely little pistol. With all the CZ82's, Makarovs, P-64's FEG's in country ammo should not be an issue.

I just bought a box of 'Monarch' FMJ at Academy.

Hornady also makes their critical defense for the Mak too...

I plan to use this as a carry gun.

wally
December 10, 2011, 09:07 PM
Heavy and under powered for its size. But it'll work fine.

If this size, weight, power, price range appeals, as said above take a look at the CZ82, more shots and a cocked and locked option.

I much prefer to shoot my CZ82 over my Maks, I've East German, Russian, and Russian "high capacity" 12 rounds -- same as the CZ82 but a lot harder to find mags for and fatter in the grip.

I will probably treat myself to a P64 this Christmas to add to the collection. The Bulgarian and PA-63, like the Maks, I'll have to find a gun show as I don't really want them bad enough to pay shipping & the transfer fee and have to drive to pick it up. The P64 I can now get on my C&R as with the CZ82.

Deltaboy
December 10, 2011, 10:34 PM
I loved mine except I got some ammo mixed up so I sold it they mix too easy with a S&W 40 cal ammo.

Twmaster
December 10, 2011, 10:39 PM
Wally,

I was looking for a CZ82 at the show today. The three I saw were all priced at a super special show prices. The least expensive was $395.... :scrutiny:

The little FEG was $162 with tax...

AT2
December 10, 2011, 10:51 PM
I have a Cz82 and a P-64. I love both for what they are, and I shoot them well. However, I was at a range in Virginia Beach last week and the RSO shot one ragged hole with some random ammo in my Cz82 at 15 yards it really shocked the heck out of me. I use Ball ammo in the winter and Hornady xtp in the summer.

MCgunner
December 10, 2011, 11:05 PM
No one's mentioned the P64 Radom? I got mine for 199 and I see 'em around for 175. It holds 6 9x18s, is about the size of a PPK. It's pocketable, though a might heavy being all steel. Mine is extremely accurate. It requires a Wolf spring kit if you wanna hit anything DA, but that cures it and is an easy install. These guns are C&R qualified and are former Polish military/secret police.

http://i44.tinypic.com/25tl36r.jpg

AT2
December 10, 2011, 11:34 PM
There is something about the P64 that for me at least it just points very naturally.

Twmaster
December 10, 2011, 11:35 PM
AT2: Did the RSO shoot with your pistol?

MCG: I heard the P64 took a mule to pop a round off in DA.... :) I did not see any P64s today. Now that I'll be starting a new job I'll be able to abuse my C&R some and get a P64. Although I have to say I just love the looks of this FEG I bought today. It's in super shape.

Stringfellow
December 11, 2011, 12:40 AM
I was looking for a CZ82 at the show today. The three I saw were all priced at a super special show prices. The least expensive was $395....

That seems to be the case at shows these days... :(

easyg
December 11, 2011, 12:15 PM
Well, you could do worse.

But honestly, you could also do a lot better than a Mak for a carry self defense pistol.

crazyjennyblack
December 11, 2011, 12:27 PM
Honestly, the makarov would be a wonderful weapon. But, for the power you're getting, you might as well get a P64. They can be had for about $160 shipped, and I've seen them at gun shows selling for about $40 less than the makarov. I qualified for my CCW license with a P64, and I practice with it regularly. It's alot smaller than the makarov, and thus conceals better, especially on female figures.

Also, consider that 9x18 has a bit more punch than .380, and is supposed to be ballistically identical to .38 special. If you're into handloading, combine that with some special JHP's that you pick out and load into mak brass, and you're good to go!

Some people say that the P64 is uncomfortable to shoot. I don't find it uncomfortable at all, and I use the black grips that came with it. The worst thing about it is the tough double action trigger pull on the first round, but you can always cock the hammer!

Twmaster
December 11, 2011, 05:15 PM
Jenny, do you have a link or dealer name with the P64 for that price? I have a C&R and would be able to get one next month.

Meanwhile, here is a photo of the PA-63 I bought at the gun show yesterday:

http://www.twmaster.com/stuff/shoot/feg/pa63.jpg

I'm leaving for a business trip to Dallas tonight. Otherwise I'd be at the range in the morning to give it a workout.

:D

krupparms
December 11, 2011, 06:36 PM
Both the PA-63 &the Mak.are fine guns.I have owned several different models of both.They all shot fine& handle fine. I put up a great PA-63 for a grandson. I have a HI-CAP MAK. That I bought by mistake. It is Russian & all beat up! That explains why it was so cheap! $150 cash at pawn shop. These guns are both good carry Guns. The PA-63 is .380 & the MAK. is 918
They are both reliable &accurate. I would not feel under gunned with them. CCI. BLAZER ammo with Gold Dot Hollow Points works fine in them both. GOD BLESS THE REPUBLIC OF THE USA!!

mljdeckard
December 11, 2011, 07:41 PM
The cartridge is borderline for defensive use, but the gun has a couple of things going for it. They are dead reliable. And while I don't want to use cheap steel-cased ammo in most of my guns, the Mak fals under my "Use Russian ammo in Russian guns" rule. You can get a LOT of practice in with it fairly cheaply.

majortoo
December 11, 2011, 09:39 PM
Both the Makarov and the CZ82 are excellent choices, with superb and richly deserved reputations for rugged reliability and reasonable accuracy. Regardless of your selection, I encourage you to consider your choice of ammunition carefully. If you are using this pistol for personal defense, please use hollow points. Further, practice soon and often with the selected ammunition. All ammunition is not created equal. Some hollow points will not function reliably in all pistols; even the Mak and the CZ....

AT2
December 11, 2011, 10:42 PM
@Twmaster


Yeah, it was my pistol. I'm not the greatest shot (Navy sharpshooter) and was always able to do a 3" group at that distance but the RSO just shot it lights out. He did however put a round into the floor when he didn't think the trigger was resetting (reason he was shooting it, helping me figure out *** was goin on).

towboat_er
December 11, 2011, 11:07 PM
I own A Russian Makarov, and it's a fine gun. I owned a PA63. May get another one. I now own a few CZ82's and and carry one daily.
In my opinion, they are the best bang for your dollar.
I have been considering a p64. Wanna use my C&R again. Wish the PA63 was C&R

woad_yurt
December 12, 2011, 09:31 AM
Wanderling:

J&G Sales has Bulgarian Makarovs on sale for $229.00. 'Tain't gonna get much better than that.

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