.30 Remington AR....No love


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Stack
November 23, 2011, 03:21 PM
I love AR's and to me the .30 AR looks like a sweet cartridge option except I think I may be the only person who thinks so.
The numbers look pretty good to me from a 20" bbl and there are scads of decent bullets available to the reloader right?
Can anyone tell me why there are so few apparent fans of this little round?

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68wj
November 23, 2011, 03:43 PM
It is a great cartridge, with great potential. If it didn't have Remington backing it, it would probably be in a better situation in the market. Unfortunately, that seems to be standard for when Remington's R&D hands over controls to marketing. This year it looks like they let AAC do their heavy lifting and appear to be having better success.

Kendal Black
November 23, 2011, 03:49 PM
I hope it will catch on, but it hasn't yet. It is a deer cartridge and there are already lots of those. While the AR is a fine hunting platform, there are already lots of other rifles that work just fine, so a better deer cartridge that can be fit into an AR-15 size rifle is not exactly earth shaking news.

I want the caliber to succeed because it is the kind of thing that allows more nearly general purpose usefulness from the AR-15. It is reasonable for the bolt action scout concept to give way eventually to a light self loader, and this cartridge is a step in that direction, though not the equal of the mighty .308.

Stack
November 23, 2011, 03:59 PM
I saw that AR Performance has discontinued their foray into the AAC.
I quote; " The 300AAC project was a miserable failure, it was inaccurate,
Remington never delivered the huge amounts of ammo promised, and now they are re-engineering the ammo. The mags do not work without modification.
Subsonic performance on anything other than paper is terrible and supersonic performance is 400fps slower than the 6.8 velocities so we have decided to abandon the 300 AAC project.
ARP is a very well respected house especially in the 6.8 arena. aybe I'll see if they're interested in doing a .30 AR for me?

68wj
November 23, 2011, 04:13 PM
I want the caliber to succeed because it is the kind of thing that allows more nearly general purpose usefulness from the AR-15. It is reasonable for the bolt action scout concept to give way eventually to a light self loader, and this cartridge is a step in that direction, though not the equal of the mighty .308.
I agree, but it doesn't offer too much more than the 6.8 SPC or 6.5G in terms of performance. The way it was originally marketed too made it seem too much of a one-off.

68wj
November 23, 2011, 04:15 PM
I saw that AR Performance has discontinued their foray into the AAC.
...
ARP is a very well respected house especially in the 6.8 arena. aybe I'll see if they're interested in doing a .30 AR for me?
I don't want to comment on that too much because the other threads (elsewhere) that have touched on it went downhill fast. I will say that there is some backstory to that decision, and it is his business. If you want a .30 option from them, ARP is considering considering doing a run of .30 HRT with estimated performance of 125gr at 2600 and a 110gr at 2800fps.

Ranger30-06
November 23, 2011, 10:17 PM
The .30 AR is really just a supercharged .300 Blackout, with the first being friendly to hunters, and the latter being friendly to suppressors and the tactical crowd.

The thing is, the .300 Blackout is fairly decent for hunting if someone wanted to make it work, and the .30 Remington AR is only marginally better. The biggest difference between the performance of these calibers is the .30 AR works better out of a 20"-22" barrel, but the Blackout works better in a 16"-18" barrel.


Obviously the .300 Blackout is a bit more popular than the .30 AR, so I would probably opt for an 20"-24" variant in .300 Blackout to squeeze out a little better performance. I suspect the .30 AR will have a short life because of the Blackout...

R.W.Dale
November 23, 2011, 10:31 PM
The .30 AR is really just a supercharged .300 Blackout, with the first being friendly to hunters, and the latter being friendly to suppressors and the tactical crowd.

The thing is, the .300 Blackout is fairly decent for hunting if someone wanted to make it work, and the .30 Remington AR is only marginally better. The biggest difference between the performance of these calibers is the .30 AR works better out of a 20"-22" barrel, but the Blackout works better in a 16"-18" barrel.


Obviously the .300 Blackout is a bit more popular than the .30 AR, so I would probably opt for an 20"-24" variant in .300 Blackout to squeeze out a little better performance. I suspect the .30 AR will have a short life because of the Blackout...

I would hardly call a 500+ fps velocity advantage as "margional"

Think of it this way the difference between 300blk and 30rar is about the same as comparing 30/30 to 30/06

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R.W.Dale
November 23, 2011, 10:33 PM
I don't want to comment on that too much because the other threads (elsewhere) that have touched on it went downhill fast. I will say that there is some backstory to that decision, and it is his business. If you want a .30 option from them, ARP is considering considering doing a run of .30 HRT with estimated performance of 125gr at 2600 and a 110gr at 2800fps.

I had an hrt upper.

Still have the bbl

Can't even give it away.

But yeah you're pretty close on its performance.

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brian923
November 24, 2011, 12:23 AM
Hey dale, ill take the barrel... If your just giving it away, ill give her a great home atop my AR. In all seriousness... I mean it...

As to the 30 ar, it would have done a lot better if it came out at the same time as the 6.5 grendal. Remington really droped the ball on the 6.8 spc, and then was shown up buy a bunch of guys who resercted the 6.8, and made it what it is today. Remington still feels that in its side... They were only interested in scoring a big military contract and once that feel through, they pitched the 6.8. Big mistake. Now there just trying to copy others to stay in the game. (300 blakout) Look at there rebadged dpms's with pretty paint jobs... Never really cared for remington..... Dont know why... :rolleyes:

Eb1
November 24, 2011, 12:37 AM
If you have a 30-30 you can load a 125 grain HP to 2500-2600 fps, and have the same ballistics.

R.W.Dale
November 24, 2011, 12:45 AM
If you have a 30-30 you can load a 125 grain HP to 2500-2600 fps, and have the same ballistics.

Except for falling way short of.

That's still almost 300 fps shy of what the RAR is doing with those weight bullets and not with nice pointey spitzers

30hrt will do that through an ar15 magazine again with nice pointey bullets


What is with all the levergun guys crawling out from around the baseboards lately and deraling EVERY thread to be about their choice platform

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cyclopsshooter
November 24, 2011, 01:13 AM
It looks like a 7.62x39... How do the ballistics compare?

jojo200517
November 24, 2011, 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by Eb1 View Post
If you have a 30-30 you can load a 125 grain HP to 2500-2600 fps, and have the same ballistics.
Except for falling way short of.

That's still almost 300 fps shy of what the RAR is doing with those weight bullets and not with nice pointey spitzers

30hrt will do that through an ar15 magazine again with nice pointey bullets


What is with all the levergun guys crawling out from around the baseboards lately and deraling EVERY thread to be about their choice platform


I think the thread is about the .30 AR not the .30 hrt. But I don't see where the .30 AR offers much over the old tried and true 7.62x39. Sure its a few more feet per second on what I'm reading tho that is kinda debatable (stats I read were for a 24 inch test barrel for the .30AR, didn't say what length for 7.62x39) Even if it does provide in my opinion a marginal advantage I'm not sure I see a real need for it personally.

The real reason I think its not getting much love is the same reason many new cartridges don't, they are something new, not the tried and true ones. Sure a few people will jump on the newfangled boat, others that don't see a big advantage will wait and see if it sinks or floats.

Oh and just for the record with the 7.62x39 ya can keep ya pointy bullets if that is all that important to ya, even feed em thru high capacity magazines.

What I really don't get where all you other semi auto guys get ya panties in a bunch because someone mentions a .30-30 that you automatically assume to be a tube fed lever gun.:scrutiny: My .30-30 is bolt action and feeds off a removable magazine and I can shoot pointy bullets just fine in it.

Eb1
November 24, 2011, 01:15 AM
I don't know about these lever gun guys.
I mean I just purchased a Dissipator with FN HF 1:7 twist 16" upper with MOE hand guards in 5.56 with a mid-length gas system. What is up with these lever guys? Seems they don't know anything but lever guns.
I was giving suggestions/making comments based on velocity and weight of the bullets in question, and I guarantee that most deer are shot below 100 yards at least in the south. So your little pointy bullets don't really mean anything. I bet the Sierra 125 grain HP @ 2500 fps does a better job than you think. Try it sometime. You might like it.
I wasn't trying to steer the OP away from what gun they like. I was just making suggestions and comparisons of .30 calibers in different platforms with different types of bullets, but you know us lever guys only like lever guns. What do we know?


P.S. At 5 AM I will be in the woods with a .25-06 with pointy bullets moving about 500 fps faster than your pointy bullets. Just for the record.


Sent via man in chair with a notebook.

LoonWulf
November 24, 2011, 01:16 AM
I think the .30 rar is a really niffty little cartridge I dont want it in an AR, id like it in a mini mauser :D or other small bolt gun. Hand load data for it looks pretty good.

P.B.Walsh
November 24, 2011, 08:58 AM
Or what ever happened to the .30 TC, 30-06 velocities in a .308 short action cartridge.....

jerkface11
November 24, 2011, 09:48 AM
But I don't see where the .30 AR offers much over the old tried and true 7.62x39. Sure its a few more feet per second

I think you're confused here. The HRT is the one with a slim advantage over 7.62x39. The Remington round has a few HUNDRED fps over it. It's more in line with .308.

jojo200517
November 24, 2011, 11:07 AM
It looks like the .30 AR is about 200-300 FPS slower in the 150 grain bullet range than most .308 ammo I'm looking at. Not to mention that there is a wider range of bullet weights and types available for the .308 .

I guess what I'm asking is other than a lighter platform in general does it offer any advantage over the .308?

I'm sure its a great little new cartridge don't get me wrong I was pretty impressed when I looked up the velocity and energy specs on it. I suppose it fits in the gap between 7.62x39 and .308 quiet nicely. That being said and already having both of them I don't see anything it can do for me realistically that neither of them can't already do.

R.W.Dale
November 24, 2011, 11:50 AM
I think the thread is about the .30 AR not the .30 hrt. But I don't see where the .30 AR offers much over the old tried and true 7.62x39. Sure its a few more feet per second on what I'm reading tho that is kinda debatable (stats I read were for a 24 inch test barrel for the .30AR, didn't say what length for 7.62x39) Even if it does provide in my opinion a marginal advantage I'm not sure I see a real need for it personally.

The real reason I think its not getting much love is the same reason many new cartridges don't, they are something new, not the tried and true ones. Sure a few people will jump on the newfangled boat, others that don't see a big advantage will wait and see if it sinks or floats.

Oh and just for the record with the 7.62x39 ya can keep ya pointy bullets if that is all that important to ya, even feed em thru high capacity magazines.

What I really don't get where all you other semi auto guys get ya panties in a bunch because someone mentions a .30-30 that you automatically assume to be a tube fed lever gun.:scrutiny: My .30-30 is bolt action and feeds off a removable magazine and I can shoot pointy bullets just fine in it.

I've killed deer at over 275yds with a 7.62x39mm ar15, I've built a benchrest rifle in that caliber and then "improved" it. I'm pretty sure I'm well versed in what its capable of. High capacity and 7.62x39 in the Ar15 = FAIL

If I tell you 30rar is an ENORMOUS step up then you can bank on that fact.


Oh and your 30/30 can only shoot the shortest stumpiest pointy bullets at fairly low pressures before it starts throwing shots wildly. Cause see I've owned a 340 or two a BFR and a 788 all chambered for 30/30. So I have a pretty good idea of what's possible there too.....;-)....k

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303tom
November 24, 2011, 11:55 AM
I love AR's and to me the .30 AR looks like a sweet cartridge option except I think I may be the only person who thinks so.
The numbers look pretty good to me from a 20" bbl and there are scads of decent bullets available to the reloader right?
Can anyone tell me why there are so few apparent fans of this little round?
There has actually been a better round than that since 1939, but it fell out of favor because it was NAZI & that is the 7.92x33 Kurz.........

R.W.Dale
November 24, 2011, 12:23 PM
There has actually been a better round than that since 1939, but it fell out of favor because it was NAZI & that is the 7.92x33 Kurz.........

How exactly is a 125 .323" bullet at 2200fps better than a 125g .308" bullet at 2750fps

I'm dying to know the reasoning behind this revelation

Heck my 450 upper moves bullets weighing 2x the mass of 7.92x33 at the same velocity

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68wj
November 24, 2011, 12:31 PM
There has actually been a better round than that since 1939, but it fell out of favor because it was NAZI & that is the 7.92x33 Kurz.........
Edit, Mr. Dale answered the question and it seems that it is, indeed, not better (or even very good).

Stack
November 24, 2011, 01:24 PM
Nothing really personal against lever guns, I have one and have had several but I really only have interest in the .30 Rem AR because it will chamber in an AR 15 and anything that will work in an AR can work in any other platform, obviously not in a tube but they do make clip fed levers etc. I have had a couple 7.62 x 39's in a mini 30 but I would not consider the round in an AR. I just think the little .30 AR deserves a bigger following. I'm looking for my next AR chambering and if not for the lack of support I'd be on it for sure.

hardluk1
November 24, 2011, 02:40 PM
If a guy that prefers the AR platfoum wants a better deer cartidge than a .223/5/56 the 30 rem, and the 6.8spc could be a better and choice in a lighter weight short barreled rifle. Thats all its about. Will it make it? Probably not but time will tell.

Stack
November 24, 2011, 03:01 PM
I have a couple 5.56 and 6.8's too. I just wondered why the 30 AR had so little support. I need (want) another AR. Just haven't picked a caliber yet. I was wondering what if anything made the .30 AR seemingly very unpopular.

230therapy
November 24, 2011, 03:03 PM
300 Blackout.

68wj
November 24, 2011, 03:09 PM
300 Blackout.
.45-70

What are we naming cartridges for? Did I win something.:uhoh::rolleyes:

Gtscotty
November 24, 2011, 03:14 PM
I think the 30 RAR would make a great short to medium range hunting cartridge in the AR platform... It seems to have several hundred FPS above either the 6.8 or the 300 AAC. For the folks asking why this cartridge is needed when we have 30-30s, .308s and the 7.62x39, I would only say that to me, the entire draw of this cartridge is that you can achieve power approaching that of the .308 in an AR 15 size platform without having to switch to the heavier, bulkier and more expensive AR 10 platform. It doesn't do anything that can't be done by other cartridges, except deliver that power and capability in the desired (AR-15) package... which, to me is significant. Add in the fact that there are more different bullets supplied in .308 cal than any other and it seems like it would be a very interesting cartridge to play around with. All this said, I don't think I'll pick one up anytime soon... I'm afraid the Remington marketing machine is going to allow this neat little cartridge to wither on the vine...

I was wondering what if anything made the .30 AR seemingly very unpopular.

Stack,

I've often wondered the same... from what I can gather it seems to be a classic marketing failure on Remington's part.

230therapy
November 24, 2011, 03:31 PM
There's very little support for 30 Remington. 300 Blackout is very similar and all that is required is a barrel change. Practically, this means people will buy the 300 Blackout upper and transfer their accessories. Owners can use their 5.56x45mm magazines. 220 grain bullets are available for suppressed weapons.

jmorris
November 24, 2011, 03:55 PM
None of the 30-221 style rounds has really taken off and every "new" one just hurts the survival of any of them.

Why? Supersonic performance that is lack luster vs the "6's" and subsonic performance that is poor beside the .452, .458 and 50 ar's.

If I wanted a good "different" ar it would be in 7mm BR.

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 05:03 PM
None of the 30-221 style rounds has really taken off and every "new" one just hurts the survival of any of them.

I find it surprising that you say that.

300 AAC BLACKOUT is a 300-221 cartridge. It is the final SAAMI standard, and that superceeds all of the previous wildcats. The survival of the others does not matter, as this is now standardized as 300 BLK.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/300%20AAC%20Blackout.pdf

It has taken off. It was introduced just a year ago, and the following companies have products for it:

* AAC - uppers, rifles, silencers, and ammunition.
* Adams Arms - rifles and uppers.
* All Weather Arms - brass processing.
* AR-Stoner - barrels.
* Atlanta Arms - ammo.
* Barnes Bullets - bullets.
* Black Hole Weaponry - barrels.
* Brad's Warehouse - converted brass.
* Bushmaster Firearms - uppers and rifles.
* BWE Firearms - rifles, uppers, and suppressors.
* CMMG - barrels, uppers, and ammo.
* Compass Lake Engineering - AR barrels.
* Cor-Bon - ammo
* Delta Company Arms - rifles, barrels, uppers.
* Dillon Precision - reloading conversion kits.
* Double Tap - ammo.
* DPMS - rifles and uppers.
* DS Arms - rifles and uppers.
* Forster - reloading dies.
* Grim Reaper Tactical - barrels and uppers.
* Gunn - ammo.
* Hornady - ammo, dies, brass.
* Kiss Tactical - lowers.
* Lee - reloading dies.
* L.E. Wilson - case gauges.
* Lewis Machine and Tool - barrels, uppers, rifles.
* Loki Weapon Systems - uppers/rifles.
* Lone Star Armory - 300 AAC BLACKOUT marked lowers.
* Lothar Walther - barrels.
* LWRCI - rifles.
* Match Grade Machine - Thompson barrels.
* McGowen Barrel - Savage and other barrels.
* McCourt Munitions - ammo.
* Model 1 Sales - AR barrels/uppers
* Montana Rifleman - barrels.
* Noveske - rifles and uppers.
* Olympic Arms - rifles and uppers.
* One Shot - ammo.
* Pac-Nor - barrels.
* Pacific Tool and Gauge - reamers and gauges.
* PalmettoStateArmory - uppers.
* PNW Arms - ammo.
* Primary Weapons Systems - rifles and uppers.
* Rainer Arms - barrels.
* Raven Armament Company - ammo and uppers.
* Redding - dies.
* Remington - ammunition.
* Right 2 Bear Ammo - ammunition.
* Robarms - XCR Micro rifle.
* Ron Williams - barrels.
* RUAG - ammo.
* Satern Custom Machining, Inc. - barrels.
* Selph Arms LLC - barrels, uppers, re-chambering, and rifles.
* SI Defense - barrels.
* Sig Sauer - rifles.
* Smith & Wesson - rifles, uppers.
* Sierra - bullets.
* SilencerCo - silencers.
* Southern Ballistic Research - ammo.
* Southwest Ammunition, LLC - ammo.
* Spike's Tactical - uppers and rifles.
* Summit - ammo.
* Surefire - 300 BLK sound suppressor.
* The Bullet Works - bullets and ammunition.
* Triton Arms - AR barrels.
* Ultra Tech - ammo (Australia)
* Umlaut Industries - 300 BLK caliber marked Rifles, Upper and Lowers. 16" and 10" Factory Title II.
* White Oak Precision - AR barrels.
* Wilson Combat - rifles, hunting and self defense ammunition.

Ammo prices for 300 Whisper(R) were $45 a box a year ago, and now for 300 AAC BLACKOUT they are $12.50 a box - soon to be $9 a box.

http://www.southwestammunition.com/product_p/300blk147.htm

Larger companies like DPMS, Sig Sauer, Bushmaster, Smith & Wesson, AAC all have rifles either out or on the way.

Brass went from $1 each to 10 cents each. It is going to be huge.

http://www.allweatherarms.com/1000-Pieces-Processed-300-AAC-Blackout-Brass-1000-Pcs-Processed-300-Blackout.htm

This is MUCH faster growth than 6.8 ever had, and ammo prices are much less - ensuring continued growth - especially with uppers down to $300:

http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-Forged-7075T6-A3-AR15-Upper-Receiver-300AAC---DSZM4CBU300SS/productinfo/DSZM4CBU300/

It works with normal magazines and bolts, and all you need is a barrel.

subsonic performance that is poor beside the .452, .458 and 50 ar's.

Those larger calibers have too large a bore to be quiet with a suppressor. Also, they don't have 30 round capacity in an AR. In other worse, they are far less desirable.

Stack
November 24, 2011, 06:33 PM
Turds? Why would you say that?

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 06:41 PM
I will edit it. I did not know that was there.

Stack
November 24, 2011, 06:54 PM
You can have your opinion. I don't mind whatever it is. I was just asking why you think so. The maker puts out very fine 5.56, 6.8 etc weapons, uppers etc. I know he did not do well with the 300 BLK but the only guy I know here who has a 300 is unimpressed at best. Different maker. The numbers just look crappy to me. I'd not consider one for my collection.

Stack
November 24, 2011, 06:55 PM
"here" being where I shoot.

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 07:01 PM
You can have your opinion. I don't mind whatever it is. I was just asking why you think so. The maker puts out very fine 5.56, 6.8 etc weapons, uppers etc. I know he did not do well with the 300 BLK but the only guy I know here who has a 300 is unimpressed at best. Different maker. The numbers just look crappy to me. I'd not consider one for my collection.

It was not just my opinion. The maker himself said his uppers did not work well. He gave up without investing in more R&D to perfect them.

As for you being unimpressed - it depend on your goal. Someone who wants to shoot at 600 yards from an AR - 6.5 G is the way to go. If you want lower cost ammo, 30 caliber from an AR using normal magazines and bolts with the full 30 round capacity - then 300 BLK is the way to go.

It has 16.7% more energy at 300 meters than even the hot Lapua 7.62x39mm ammo - and plenty of people are satisfied with that performance.

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 07:12 PM
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/401/300aacblk110grbarnessma.jpg

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/300-Blackout-1-400.jpg

This ammo is going to be very impressive.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/438/umcdsc01724small.jpg

And this ammo will be $12.99 MSRP per box - probably $10.68 at some dealers within a few months. And once that happens, the remanufactured ammo should drop to below $9 per box.

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 07:19 PM
$320 300 BLK uppers:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/foghorn/ds-arms-now-shipping-cheap-300-blk-uppers/

jmorris
November 24, 2011, 08:19 PM
I find it surprising that you say that.


300 AAC BLACKOUT is a 300-221 cartridge. It is the final SAAMI standard, and that superceeds all of the previous wildcats. The survival of the others does not matter, as this is now standardized as 300 BLK.

I guess its an answer to a question I never asked. It's no good for 3 gun (where having 30 rounds is important), too expensive for a plinker (where 9mm and 45acp AR's shine), subsonic bullet performance is poor on animals and supersonic they all give up 500-600fps to the 30 AR.


As far as not being able to make a big bore quite, my form 1 can for a 458 SOCOM makes less noise than an AAC 762 SD, AAC M4 1000 or an M4 2000. It however is not as compact as the others but it did cost a lot less.

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 08:23 PM
It's no good for 3 gun (where having 30 rounds is important)

Wow - your batting average is dropping with each post.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/10/horner-wins-tactical-optics-divison-at-multigun-nationals/

303tom
November 24, 2011, 09:07 PM
How exactly is a 125 .323" bullet at 2200fps better than a 125g .308" bullet at 2750fps

I'm dying to know the reasoning behind this revelation

Heck my 450 upper moves bullets weighing 2x the mass of 7.92x33 at the same velocity

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Sorry I was talking about the Kurz being better than the .300 AAC......

jmorris
November 24, 2011, 09:19 PM
I guess my batting average is dropping like the blackout does at distances. I should have said not good for 3 gun except in USPSA tacticle with an army made barrel and ammunition. BTW what did it wind up costing to have him shoot it?

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 09:22 PM
We had a $10,000 prize if anyone won with it, but there was no money if someone did not win.

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 09:23 PM
Everyone - 30 AR ballistics are reported for 24 inch barrels. 300 BLK ballistics are for 16 inch barrels.

Ranger30-06
November 24, 2011, 09:26 PM
Everyone - 30 AR ballistics are reported for 24 inch barrels. 300 BLK ballistics are for 16 inch barrels.
So they are pretty much identical, except one has a huge following and lots of support, and the other is a knock off that never really had any support to begin with.

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 09:27 PM
I guess my batting average is dropping like the blackout does at distances.

The (14.5 inch) M4 is rated by the Army as a 550 meter range. If you take the drift and drop, and apply it to a 9 inch 300 BLK upper, the same drift and drop happens at 440 meters.

So yes, it is less long range than 5.56mm, but the military group I asked said that 92% of their shots were under 300 meters. So they would rather optimize for the range at which they actually shoot, and 300 BLK has more power up close.

1911crazy
November 24, 2011, 09:28 PM
bullets are bit light in my opinion

rsilvers
November 24, 2011, 09:31 PM
bullets are bit light in my opinion

At lower velocities, expanding bullets don't expand as much, and actually go deeper. So for example, if you used 150-180 grain bullets in 300 BLK, they would over-penetrate.

110-125 grain bullets in 300 BLK or 30 RAR will more closely mirror the depth of penetration of 150-180 grain bullets used in 308/30-06.

68wj
November 24, 2011, 10:19 PM
It is a great cartridge, with great potential. If it didn't have Remington backing it, it would probably be in a better situation in the market. Unfortunately, that seems to be standard for when Remington's R&D hands over controls to marketing. This year it looks like they let AAC do their heavy lifting and appear to be having better success.
See, much better.:D And yes, I know that AAC doesn't work for Remington, but their ties are significant. How did this turn into another .300 thread? :scrutiny:

Stack
November 25, 2011, 12:02 AM
So, Let's see if I got this right. The .30 Remington AR is not a popular, albeit a superior cartridge because it does not have a cool name reminiscent of the effects of alcohol abuse and therefore being less easily promoted to the masses. Got it!

R.W.Dale
November 25, 2011, 12:30 AM
So, Let's see if I got this right. The .30 Remington AR is not a popular, albeit a superior cartridge because it does not have a cool name reminiscent of the effects of alcohol abuse and therefore being less easily promoted to the masses. Got it!

Don't think that just because velocity is higher that RAR holds all the cards. It is still a low capacity SINGLE STACK round that's more tailored to the hunters 5round mag. Where the 300blk rocks it from magazines just like 5.56


The biggest issue w the 300rar (aside from being vaporware) is that Remington has no comprehension whatsoever as to how to sell a consumer product. They couldnt convince Eskimos to buy warm cups of coffee

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Stack
November 25, 2011, 12:55 AM
Agreed, I was kinda pickin at someones scab there, lol

rsilvers
November 27, 2011, 10:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G92lIoa3fhY

Tirod
November 28, 2011, 10:47 AM
Well, claiming a cartridge is "superior" is hogwash - you have to define the task conditions to create an objective, and then who's going to deliberately pick the inferior one?

What's the reference going to be? May I suggest .50BMG? Point being, you can stack the deck and get any conclusion you want.

In a discussion about why the consumer might prefer one cartridge over the other, the real baseline items are affordability, versatility, and getting that extra notch up in performance.

The .30AR has to use a proprietary upper and bolt - it's a necked down .450 Bushmaster, after all. Had a standard or optional bolt face in a standard upper been selected, the AR industry would have jumped on it. Didn't happen - you can't just change barrels and bolts like all the others. It's not an optional build up that fits the typical upper.

Further, it wasn't a wildcatters invention with a long history of competitive attempts. At least the .300 Whisper goes back to the eighties and earlier. It was a simple dodge around the original three gun rules requiring .30 caliber. Nobody wanted those little poodle shooters showing up at a real man's shoot, regardless of the actual effectiveness in combat.

Fanboys can argue the relative merits, but the knowledgeable shooter is going to pick the better cartridge that fits into the job envelope, and they already know that no one cartridge can do it all. Not even the .50BMG.

Don't care what you think makes a difference in the locker room, the performance is out on the field.

Stack
November 28, 2011, 04:47 PM
Awwww cmon now. The .300 is a pooch. :neener:

Elkins45
November 28, 2011, 05:35 PM
So does this thing headspace on the leade or the extractor? :D

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/438/umcdsc01724small.jpg

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