Will Hoppe's #9 actually remove copper fouling?


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SilentStalker
November 28, 2011, 11:27 PM
Ok, for those of you that are religious cleaners, will Hoppes actually remove copper fouling? I do not shoot hundreds of rounds through my rifles so this will most likely not be a huge problem as a quick clean should get most of the stuff out of mine from my use. However, I was curious as a friend of mine had a good shooting rifle that seemed to lose accuracy over time. At first he thought it was him and then others shot with it consistently with the same type of results, or results that were not up to par with their previous times with the rifle. Come to find out after it was finally taken to a gunsmith, the copper fouling inside somehow was throwing off the accuracy, like a lot. So, the gunsmith cleaned it with some more potent stuff and all seems to be fine now. He stated that Hoppes would not remove the fouling completely and that over time this would build up and ruin accuracy. Is this true?

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jhnrckr
November 28, 2011, 11:36 PM
look for something that says "removes copper fouling" on the label. I have been using a foaming bore cleaner and it seems to work, I get a lot of blue foam after an hour or so , the blue being copper. I have used Hoppes #9 and got copper build up too. #9 is good for powder residue and copper removing comes from the bore brush at best when you use that stuff.

SilentStalker
November 28, 2011, 11:40 PM
^^^What brand foaming cleaner are you using, just out of curiosity?

30Cal
November 28, 2011, 11:43 PM
It does; leave it in 15 minutes and you'll get blue patches. It's certainly not as aggressive as others though.


Also, don't dunk bronze brushes into the solvent bottle. Solvent doesn't work well in the barrel after you've been dissolving brushes in it.

Strykervet
November 28, 2011, 11:45 PM
They make the regular stuff, it will get some of it out, they make a copper fouling formula, it works better for that in particular, and then there is Sweets 7.62 Solvent. Pure (well, close enough to it) ammonia. Burns the nose, make sure to take a nice whiff when you get it! Anyway, you run that stuff through from time to time and use it as directed and you'll see the blue come out then. Pure blue and green. A bottle lasts a lifetime. It won't hurt the barrel if you use it properly.

I use that, JB bore paste to polish and clean now and again, but for just general cleaning, I use Hoppes 9 (the regular stuff in the quart jar --cheaper and I just replenish the small one) CLP, and/or some kind of super slick lube for moving parts. All my stuff works great and I get awesome groups, so I must be doing something right.

Haxby
November 28, 2011, 11:48 PM
Same thing happened to me.
Hoppes sells a 'Bench Rest Copper Solvent' or somesuch. It works for the copper fouling that #9 won't get.

mljdeckard
November 28, 2011, 11:48 PM
It's good for routine cleaning, but if say, I am cleaning one of my dad's old guns that hasn't been cleaned since....ever, I will get some foaming bore stuff, plug an end and fill it up, leave it for a couple of days.

SilentStalker
November 29, 2011, 12:02 AM
What about if you used it on a regular basis, in other words, never let it build up to being with, would it be ok then? I don't think he cleaned his well enough after each range visit IMO but I could be wrong. So, would it be safe to use Hoppes on it and then like some kind of foam cleaner once a year? My thing is I do not want to be prematurely wearing the barrel down to excessive cleaning either as my TRG replacement barrels are not cheap...

Haxby
November 29, 2011, 12:05 AM
"use Hoppes on it and then like some kind of foam cleaner once a year"
Sure. That'll work.

briansmithwins
November 29, 2011, 12:07 AM
I use the Breakfree bore cleaning foam every 6 months or 500 rounds or so.

It really removes carbon and copper fouling. It's also safe to use with gas systems, including ARs.

BSW

ColtPythonElite
November 29, 2011, 12:11 AM
x2 on the Hoppe's #9 Benchrest. I run a very wet patch thru and let it sit over night. The next day a clean patch will come out bright green from the copper that it takes out.

RyeDaddy
November 29, 2011, 12:24 AM
Yes Hoppe's removes copper. It takes a long time (measured in hours)soaking in the barrel and then resoaking, but it will eventually get it all out. Sweet's 7.62 is excellent, and used as the directions state hasn't harmed any of my rifles.

I recently bought a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 300 WSM that looked like it had never been cleaned by the previous owner. I mean chunks of crud in the bore. I have a suspicion it wasnt shooting well anymore and thats why he sold it. I ran a well soaked patch of Hoppe's down it and it IMMEDIATELY came out blue/green. I've never had that happen so pronounced before. Anyway, it took two full days of soaking with Hoppe's and scrubbing to get it totally squeaky clean. After going through that I used Sweet's copper remover just to make sure and it came out with no blue, so Hoppe's did the trick but it's not the most efficient way of getting rid of copper. Smells better than Sweet's though. :)

Rifle turned out to be a good one, BTW.

Dmitri Popov
November 29, 2011, 12:57 AM
I've had decent success out of Sweet's 7.62. It certainly has my vote over Hoppes for copper. Just be sure to use a synthetic brush (not metal).

SilentStalker
November 29, 2011, 01:10 AM
^^^Why the synthetic brush over metal?

ColtPythonElite
November 29, 2011, 01:13 AM
Because the same chemical that takes out your copper fouling will eat up a bronze brush...With that said, I always use a bronze brush. As long as you rinse it right after using it, you will have no problems.

SilentStalker
November 29, 2011, 02:08 AM
^^^Thanks for clearing that up. I thought about that after I posted it and walked away and then felt like an idiot LOL. I didn't think that one all the way through :D. Oh well it happens to the best of us...

DoubleMag
November 29, 2011, 08:52 AM
"All IMHO", I think Hoppe's regular solvent #9 is so-so any more, and dated. I have no experience with their other products. I grew up using #9 however now I believe there's better formulations. Bore foam is fab I like Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out. I also prefer Shooters Choice liquid solvents.
The main thing is DO IT!
Because the same chemical that takes out your copper fouling will eat up a bronze brush...With that said, I always use a bronze brush. As long as you rinse it right after using it, you will have no problems.
ditto, I hit the brush with some cheepee WallyWorld non-chlorinated brake cleaner. As do all my cleaning utensils. Just makes sense to clean your brushes and not leave the crud on them for the next session.

jhnrckr
November 29, 2011, 10:48 AM
^^^What brand foaming cleaner are you using, just out of curiosity?

gunslick foaming bore cleaner. FYI I just pulled a gun I used it on several months ago and there was what looked like dried shaving cream deposited in the barrel. I know I ran a dry patch through the barrel and even oiled it to. I might skip the foaming cleaner next time.

HJ857
November 29, 2011, 02:27 PM
I agree that the original #9 is not good for removing copper, a waste of time I would say.

Hoppes now also makes "Copper Terminator", it's a gel and it is the best Hoppes product I've used for removing copper fouling. And unlike ammonia products, it can be left in the barrel without worrying about possible damage.

rcmodel
November 29, 2011, 02:32 PM
Hoppe's #9 Nitro Powder Solvent has some small ability to remove copper fouling.

Like you might get off copper washed .22 LR ammo.

It will not remove heavy jacket fouling from a centerfire given a month of Sundays.
It does try though, as you can see if you run a clean patch through a barrel that has had Hoppe's left in it several days.
The patch will come out green, and thats copper.

But for real copper fouling?
You need real Copper Solvent.

rc

kimbernut
November 29, 2011, 02:53 PM
Butch's Bore Shine was recommended to me by a friend 10 or so years ago and I've used nothing else for serious copper removal since. It works like a charm.

ATLDave
November 29, 2011, 03:32 PM
I don't contend that it is the strongest, nor the best, but it certainly will dissolve copper to the extent of putting it in a solution. I have seen the green-tinted copper/Hoppe's solution leaking out of the gas holes on a barrel!

P-32
November 29, 2011, 06:41 PM
I use that, JB bore paste to polish and clean now and again, but for just general cleaning, I use Hoppes 9 (the regular stuff in the quart jar --cheaper and I just replenish the small one) CLP, and/or some kind of super slick lube for moving parts. All my stuff works great and I get awesome groups, so I must be doing something right.

I used to use the JB Bore paste. It would take every speck of copper out. After a couple of years I lost a barrel early.

30Cal
November 29, 2011, 07:02 PM
Go easy with the JB.

The #9 works well for how I clean; I usually leave it in the barrel for 6+ hours at a pop since it seems like I'm perpetually being interrupted by kids.

I first wet a bronze brush from a dropper bottle and push it through about a dozen times, then rinse it in paint thinner. After that, just alternate wet/dry patches.

BruceM
November 29, 2011, 07:09 PM
If you have a fouled bore which is particularly vexing, try KG-12, a non-ammonia, water based solvent developed for removing copper fouling from crew served artillery pieces. It is said to dissolve a copper penny but I haven't tried that trick. You can also try soaking the bore overnight in Kroil, a super penetrating oil which works by getting under the fouling & loosening it so that it can be removed by more conventional methods. If all else fails, there is Outer's Foul Out, which WILL remove all fouling, be it copper or lead, through reverse electroplating. This is more of a gunsmith's solution to a stubborn and time(and $) consuming problem bore. There may be a fouled bore which has defeated this system but I've yet to see or hear of it.

;)

Bruce

zeke
November 29, 2011, 09:29 PM
Another fan of kg12, works extremely well without the stink. If memory holds, read (on the bottle) ya need to be careful about it getting on your skin. Still use Hoppes 9 first for soaking and brushing. If ya got some patience with the Hoppes, and a place to let the gun sit, minimal use of bore brush required.

northark147
November 29, 2011, 10:17 PM
Another Butches Bore Shine user here..

twofifty
November 29, 2011, 10:52 PM
CR-10 (a Barnes bullet product) does a decent job of removing copper and lead fouling, in rifle and hg.

PowerG
November 29, 2011, 11:02 PM
Hoppe's Benchrest 9 works, Butch's Bore Shine may be a little better. It needs to sit a while.

browneu
November 30, 2011, 12:28 AM
I've used wipe out with much success.

joed
November 30, 2011, 12:45 PM
I'm a believer in Sweets. Best product I've ever seen for removing copper. When the patches stop coming out green, you're done. Just do not leave it in the bore. After use I continue with Hoppes to get the Sweets out.

biggameballs
November 30, 2011, 01:08 PM
ZEKE I was all set to order KG-12 becasue from all the research I've done it's hands down the best copper remover on the market. With testing done it's basically a proven fact.

What scared me off is some people had reviews of it saying that it took the finish right off their barrels when they got it on them by accident. Have you, or anyone on here for that matter, experienced that?

I'd rather have copper in my barrel then a screwed up finish on my gun.

springer99
November 30, 2011, 02:18 PM
Hoppe #9 is a good cleaner for general use, but when I really want to remove copper fouling, Sweets 7.62 is what I reach for.

LoonWulf
November 30, 2011, 03:09 PM
i also use sweets, i normally only pull copper once every 40 rnds or so (i use a snake with hoppes benchrest after every shoot). I havent tried kg-12 yet, might make a point when i finally run out of sweets again, took me some 8 years to kill my first bottle.

lightman
November 30, 2011, 05:19 PM
The original #9 worked pretty good,but when they made it safer,they also made it less effective.All of the other solvents that the other posters listed above will work better.I have seen this proven on side by side test at matches and on prairie dog shoots,where shooters are cleaning their rifles.Everyone has their favorites,I use Shooters Choice and Sweets. Lightman

conrad427
November 30, 2011, 11:42 PM
gunslick foam is a good one as well as the hoppe's benchrest copper solvent. I am not sure if no.9 has ammonia in it or not. Tiptons copper solvent is the best i have used so far. One word of caution though, a few years ago i decided to clean an old mod. 70 of all copper after seeing some streaks in the muzzle. After a good cleaning with gunslick and tiptons i noticed several large pits in the muzzle that used to be filled with copper, the rifle does not shoot as well now and will probably take years to fill the holes back in.

SilentStalker
December 1, 2011, 08:22 AM
Best place to order sweets that you guys have seen?

The Sarge
December 1, 2011, 08:37 AM
Sweets is very good. To the poster asking where to get Sweets. Midway,and most of the online vendors have it.
I get just as good if not better results from my homemade copper cleaner.
2 parts Janitor Strength Ammonia from ACE Hardware mixed with one part Ivory Dish washing Soap. I started using my homemade stuff on various Lee Enfield and Mosin Nagants. Cleaned them perfectly lickety split. I use it on everything I own.

SilentStalker
December 1, 2011, 06:39 PM
ok, final question. Obviously, I do not want to do any premature damage to the barrel but I would not want copper to sit in the barrel forever either. So, how exactly would one know when to clean for copper fouling vs. just a regular cleaning? I mean I know some people that clean everytime they go to the range and others that say they never clean their barrels period. Or would you suggest cleaning for copper fouling after so many rounds? I might be putting too much thought into this but this is an expensive rifle, so I am a little concerned with it as I have over $7000 in this rig altogether as we speak.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 1, 2011, 08:14 PM
SilentStalker, Copper fouling removal needs are based on a few variables. One-Is the jacket type on your bullets. I.E. Thin vs Moderate to heavy. Two- Speed that you are pushing the bullet through the barrel creating heat and copper fouling. Three- How often you regularly clean your rifle with regular solvents such as Hoppes #9.

If you are hot rodding (just for comparative purposes) a 168gr Match hollow point out of a 28 inch .308 barrel, you will have more copper fouling than you would from say a 150gr Hornady Interlock at a medium velocity.

I am of a habit to clean any firearm that went out the door with me. Doesn't matter if it was fired or not. Still gets a patch ran through and a good wipe down. Old habits are hard to break. As far as copper fouling cleanup, I tend to like the new bore foams myself, but for years I used Sweets. I tend to do a copper cleanup around every 400 rounds on hot rod setups such as my .220swift and my bench rest guns. For my hunting rigs, I've found they only need it done about every 600 or so.

zeke
December 1, 2011, 10:28 PM
BGB-i have not noticed it take any blued finish off the end of barrel, but am pretty careful not to get it on anything else. Have not seen any reports about it taking off steel finishes.

SilentStalker
December 2, 2011, 02:15 AM
How exactly are you guys plugging the rifles up and letting this stuff sit? Sorry, I just get a little scared about shoving something into the end of my barrel :D.

LoonWulf
December 2, 2011, 02:54 AM
I use 00 and 000 rubber corks from Ace. I use them with my homemade electronic bore cleaner also.

DoubleMag
December 2, 2011, 07:50 AM
chamber plug

I think Possum Hollow makes them

L-W I like that idea of Ace rubber plugs I have a pistol that needs a bath I'll check our Home DePot

jhnrckr
December 2, 2011, 12:19 PM
ok, final question. Obviously, I do not want to do any premature damage to the barrel but I would not want copper to sit in the barrel forever either. So, how exactly would one know when to clean for copper fouling vs. just a regular cleaning? I mean I know some people that clean everytime they go to the range and others that say they never clean their barrels period. Or would you suggest cleaning for copper fouling after so many rounds? I might be putting too much thought into this but this is an expensive rifle, so I am a little concerned with it as I have over $7000 in this rig altogether as we speak.

you can get more wear from over cleaning as opposed to overshooting and not cleaning. I remove copper about every 20 rounds but I use a foam so it doesnt wear the rifling. You should clean when you start to see accuracy fall off.

joed
December 2, 2011, 04:31 PM
Use Sweets and don't be letting stuff sit in your barrel. When you run a patch with Sweets on it down the bore the patch will come out green. When it stops coming out green you're done. I'm usually done on the second patch. I do my rifles between 50 to 100 firings depending on velocity. Do not leave this stuff in your barrel for any length of time like over night.

The first varmint rifle I owned I let people talk me into using JB Paste which is abrasive. Probably took 10 years off the life of that barrel. You almost never need abrasives.

Stevie-Ray
December 2, 2011, 09:17 PM
Hoppes sells a 'Bench Rest Copper Solvent' or somesuch. It works for the copper fouling that #9 won't get.
#9 Benchrest Copper Solvent is the best stuff I've found for copper fouling. It's all I use for my FAL. Only problem is it stinks way worse than regular #9.:scrutiny:

dc.fireman
December 2, 2011, 10:19 PM
Ed's Red Bore Cleaner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OfaCCJjBEU)

rem1858
December 2, 2011, 10:40 PM
You want to get rid of copper fouling ?

Sweets 7.62 down and up the bore a few times.
Let it sit for about 5 minutes.
Wet a patch with Hydrogen Peroxide(you have it under your bathroom sink), and push it ever so slowly down the bore.
It will be foaming as it comes out.
Let it sit for about anothe 5 minutes and run a dry patch.

Repeat if neccessary

The best method that I have found to remove copper fouling.

Works for me, your mileage may vary...

Clarence

HankB
December 2, 2011, 10:45 PM
I mostly use Hoppe's BR9 because it's one of the few copper solvents that won't damage the bore if you leave it in for an extended time. The MSDS at the Hoppe's site doesn't show a whole lot of difference between #9 and BR9, but the latter does seem to work a bit better. (In making #9 "safer" I think all they did was remove the nitrobenzene.)

On occasion, if a rifle barrel is seriously fouled (a CMP M1 I bought comes to mind) either an electrochemical bore cleaner or a good soak with solvent is called for. I've used both methods, and have found that even original #9 works well if you cork up the bore (usually from the chamber end) and fill it with solvent for a couple of days after swabbing/scrubbing out the loose stuff.

With #9 or BR9, no problem . . . the label actually recommends overnight soaks. Some of the other solvents on the market may damage the bore.

The Bushmaster
December 2, 2011, 10:48 PM
Whaddya mean Hoppe's #9 Benchrest copper solvent smells bad. I use it behind my ears and the ladies love it.

I've been using Hoppe's #9 Benchrest for over 20 years. I've tried other products (Sweets, Butch's and others). I keep coming back to Hoppe's...

ArtP
December 2, 2011, 10:55 PM
Some time ago I gave up on Hoppe's to remove copper. I would use Hoppe's then some JB bore paste once every 500 rounds or so.

Butches bore cleaner, if used frequently enough, will remove copper with only patches. After a longer session, a brush is necessary.

It's ammonia that reacts with copper. I'd think if you can't smell ammonia in your solvent, it's not going to be good at removing copper.

Still Shooting
December 2, 2011, 11:55 PM
Lately I've started running a series of patches. First, I run 2 patches thru the bore with Hoppe's #9. I let it sit 5-10 minutes, then run a brush 2-4 times. Next come more patches, until the powder stops coming out.

I then give the bore 2 patches with Butch's Bore Shine, and let it sit for 10-15 minutes.

Next come 2 passes with the bore brush, patches 'til no more green, and another swab with Hoppe's #9 to get out the Bore Shine residue.

Then dry patches until they come out clean, a light coat of Kroil on another patch, and 2 or 3 dry patches so there's just a little Kroil left in the bore. The bores look great, copper all comes out, and the rifles shoot like new.

I clean after about 50 rds, or if I'm going to store the rifle for more than a month or so.

trex1310
December 3, 2011, 05:53 PM
I don't know about copper fouling, but it's a great aftershave.

Stevie-Ray
December 3, 2011, 11:56 PM
Whaddya mean Hoppe's #9 Benchrest copper solvent smells bad. I use it behind my ears and the ladies love it.

I've been using Hoppe's #9 Benchrest for over 20 years. I've tried other products (Sweets, Butch's and others). I keep coming back to Hoppe's...
I've been using for over 2 decades as well. Works better than anything. But it Stinx! Not Shooter's Choice stench, mind you, but certainly not cologne. I'll stick to Drakkar for that thanks.;)

zeke
December 4, 2011, 05:41 PM
"How exactly are you guys plugging the rifles up and letting this stuff sit? Sorry, I just get a little scared about shoving something into the end of my barrel"

For soaking with # 9 ,I do not plug up and fill the barrel. Just a cardboard box with v's cut into ends. Run a soaked patch through it, and let rifle sit so barrel has slight decline. Put old pie plate below end of barrel. Maybe run a clean soaked patch throughg every couple hours. Watch the copper run to end of barrel and out into pie plate. Save the KG12 for the serious stuff.

Gravity and patience can occasionally pay off and reduce cleaning effort. Have been using Hoppes #9 for over 40 years, and it seems alot stronger than it used to be.

redneck2
December 4, 2011, 06:03 PM
I use Wipe-Out foaming cleaner. You can clean with anything like #9 as long as you want. After you are done, shoot Wipe-Out in the bore, let it sit for the recommended time, then run a couple of patches thru. They'll come out filthy.

I gave away all my other cleaners after using Wipe-Out. Shoot the foam in, swipe with a a couple of patches, and you're totally clean.

FWIW...nobody has talked about cleaning rods and guides. You should never use anything other than coated rods. Aluminum rods pick up grit that grinds on the barrel if the rod bows.

Always clean from the breech if possible and always use a rod guide to help keep the rod from bowing into the rifling.

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