Wolf gun! .260 or .223


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PoserHoser
November 29, 2011, 06:21 PM
Which caliber would be better. i shoot 140 grain corelokt in my .260 and 62 grain fmj's in my .223 but am open to better suggestions.
I'm most concerned with not damaging the pelt.

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T Bran
November 29, 2011, 06:34 PM
Yoy may want to try Barnes Varmit grenades since they arent supposed to leave exit holes in the pelt. I beleive they come in .224 for your .223 and 6mm diameters. Go to their site and they will send you a free demo dvd in the mail. Even if you dont use them their dvd is cool to watch. I shoot Barnes exclusively in my 223 and the 50 grain TTSX has killed everything from coons thru hogs and deer. I have heard some negative reviews on this forum but have had great success myself.
LUCK
T

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
November 29, 2011, 06:47 PM
PoserHoser, The Varmint Grenade has started to gain a pretty good following. You could also try the Hornady V-Max. Busted a LOT of yotes with that out of my 220swift and have had very few exits. As far as the .260 goes, I do not think Barnes offers the Grenade in .264 but Hornady does have a 95gr in V-Max. Not sure how it would perform for pelt saving though. Thats a pretty good bit of weight moving at a smoking velocity. I think I would use the .223 if those were my only 2 options and I was concerned with pelt saving. I would go for the 50gr V-Max for Wolf out of the .223 or the 50gr Varmint Grenade from Barnes. Whichever your rifle likes the best.

AABEN
November 29, 2011, 08:10 PM
223 with 50 gr V MAX will do the job. Place your shot good. 243 is also a verry good one. good luck

sixgunner455
November 30, 2011, 09:48 PM
I've never shot a wolf. Sounds like it might be a fun hunt. I'd probably go with the .260, personally.

highbrow
December 2, 2011, 01:55 AM
Wolves are rather large. Think of it as hunting deer. They will often be over 100lbs. I was going to use 52gr hp in my AR, but after seeing one up close (dead), I have decided on 60gr Nosler Partitions. If I had a .243 or .260, I would use that.

PoserHoser
December 2, 2011, 07:29 PM
leaning towards my .260 with corelokts

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 2, 2011, 08:01 PM
leaning towards my .260 with corelokts

Not if you want to save the pelt. Wolves are not overly large nor are they hard to drop. Much easier than a deer. They aren't that much bigger or harder to kill than a coyote. They have longer legs and a little longer in the body which is why they appear so much bigger than a yote. If you want to save the pelt, a high velocity, heavily fragmenting round is needed. 50gr is plenty to drop one efficiently without heavy pelt damage.

DM~
December 2, 2011, 08:20 PM
Both would easily do the job, but i'd switch to soft points in the .223...

DM

H&Hhunter
December 3, 2011, 01:13 PM
FFIL,

Not if you want to save the pelt. Wolves are not overly large nor are they hard to drop. Much easier than a deer. They aren't that much bigger or harder to kill than a coyote. They have longer legs and a little longer in the body which is why they appear so much bigger than a yote.

What? Wolves aren't much bigger than coyotes!?! How many wolves have you killed? Or even seen in the wild? Let me know the next time you find a 100 + lb coyote!

Here are some facts on wolves.

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/gray_wolf.htm

The gray wolf is the largest wild canine. They are around 3 feet tall at the shoulder and are about 3 to 5 feet in length from nose to tail tip. Their weight ranges from 40 to 176 pounds. Male wolves are larger than females.


Now as far as pelt damage and bullets. A solidly constructed bullet like a corelokt would be just fine for wolves or coyotes for that matter. I kill a ton of coyotes with a .308 or a .30-06 using controlled expansion bullets the exit hole is usually a simple fix. An explosive .22 CF sometimes doesn't exit and sometimes leaves a massive exit hole. The controlled expansion stuff especially out of a mild round like a .260 will generally leave a fairly small exit hole.

While a .223 is not a horrible choice for wolf and will get the job done the .260 will give better range and shot options. A big gray wolf is WAY WAY bigger than the largest coyote. A very small gray wolf is about the size of a HUGE coyote.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 3, 2011, 01:31 PM
What? Wolves aren't much bigger than coyotes!?! How many wolves have you killed? Or even seen in the wild? Let me know the next time you find a 100 + lb coyote!

Killed literally thousands of yotes and they generally run around 40 to 60 pounds. Killed 35 wolves and they generally ran around 75 to 100 pounds. 30 to 50 pounds difference is not a whole hell of a lot of weight difference. Body structure is the same and they are just as easy to drop as a yote. While yes you have some bigger wolves that can get up to 160+ pounds, that is by far NOT the average you will see nor would they be any harder to kill than one that is 100 pounds. I don't have to rely on the net for source material H&H just as you don't have to for African game. Been there done that. Every wolf I shot with my .220swift was damn near turned inside out and dropped just as easily as yotes. He is concerned with pelt damage and the viability of a .223 with varmint bullets is his best option over the .260. Now granted his range will be increased with the .260 by a long shot (pun intended :) ) But for an overall cartridge choice with the parameters that he has laid out, the .223 is his best option.

PoserHoser
December 3, 2011, 01:58 PM
by the way my .223 only has a 16 inch barrel so my velocity will be lower than the average varmint gun

H&Hhunter
December 3, 2011, 02:19 PM
illed literally thousands of yotes and they generally run around 40 to 60 pounds. Killed 35 wolves and they generally ran around 75 to 100 pounds. 30 to 50 pounds difference is not a whole hell of a lot of weight difference.

I've also killed hundreds of coyotes. In NM, AZ and TX where I've done the majority of my song dog killing I've never seen a 50 lb coyote. 35 lbs is more the average. I guess you could run into a 60 lber from time to time but it would be as rare as a true 175 lb wolf.

I don't have to rely on the net for source material H&H just as you don't have to for African game.

OK but various biology reports from NGO's and government game departments are the most accurate source of biological data that exists on various species. They tend to stop dead in their tracks the internet claims of 2,000 LB elk, 600lb hogs and such. And of course I don't carry a bathroom scale with me when I'm hunting so yes if I want an accurate quote of weight or size of a certain species I'll have to source it.

When I showed pictures of my elephant I was asked multiple times how much did that thing weigh? Best I can give is an estimate based on scientific data I didn't have 10,000+ lb pulley scale in my day pack or a handy tree limb that would support it.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on the best caliber choice for predator hunting. I like the options that heavier caliber, better BC, better wind deflection and such offer even for coyotes. A .223 is realistically a 300 yard max yote gun IMO. A 260 will kill yotes and wolves effectively way past that. Pelt damage simply isn't that big of an issue with a medium velocity well constructed round.

Justin Holder
December 3, 2011, 03:20 PM
I like the options that heavier caliber, better BC, better wind deflection and such offer even for coyotes. A .223 is realistically a 300 yard max yote gun IMO. A 260 will kill yotes and wolves effectively way past that. Pelt damage simply isn't that big of an issue with a medium velocity well constructed round.

H&H hit the nail on the head.

I've never shot a wolf but I have shot a bunch of coyotes and feral dogs. I have always felt the .223 was very marginal for large canines. I mostly use .22-250rem., .243win. and .270win. for coyotes.

A .260rem. would be near perfect for wolves IMO.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 3, 2011, 06:40 PM
I've also killed hundreds of coyotes. In NM, AZ and TX where I've done the majority of my song dog killing I've never seen a 50 lb coyote. 35 lbs is more the average. I guess you could run into a 60 lber from time to time but it would be as rare as a true 175 lb wolf.

Pretty good bit of them was in PA. Them northern mutts get pretty big and a 60 pounder was not that rare at all really. Killed a few big mutts in Colorado but they averaged more along the lines of 35-45. I'd have to imagine they get a little bigger than average in PA because of the dense deer population with a lot of fawn drops making for easy meals with less range to travel. The few I've killed here in Illinois were pretty dern healthy sized as well.

In the areas where Wolves roam, it is very doubtful that you will SPOT one past 250 yards anyway. They are MUCH more stealthy in their approach than a yote. Vastly more intelligent. So the need for a 500 yard varmint rifle is pretty much not needed.

I've never shot a wolf but I have shot a bunch of coyotes and feral dogs. I have always felt the .223 was very marginal for large canines. I mostly use .22-250rem., .243win. and .270win. for coyotes.

I can't get how people that advocate the use of .223 for hogs and deer would find them to be marginal for a Wolf or a Yote. It's about ridiculous. They are not huge nor hard to kill in any way at all. Hit a Yote or a Wolf pretty much anywhere in the vitals with a good .22 caliber bullet and it's history. They are not thick hided nor heavily boned. In all reality, I have found that Yotes and Wolves are actually much easier to drop than deer or hogs.

When I showed pictures of my elephant I was asked multiple times how much did that thing weigh? Best I can give is an estimate based on scientific data I didn't have 10,000+ lb pulley scale in my day pack or a handy tree limb that would support it.

Come on now, thats just silly!!! You KNOW you should ALWAYS carry a 10k pulley scale and have a crane on hand for weighing :evil:

wolf695
December 3, 2011, 09:04 PM
As being from IL. myself you know you can't shoot wolves! They are protected,coyotes are legal! 223 is very common! Less cost,more overhead!

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 3, 2011, 09:22 PM
As being from IL. myself you know you can't shoot wolves! They are protected,coyotes are legal! 223 is very common! Less cost,more overhead!

LOL Never even seen a Wolf here in IL yet there wolf695. But I hear they are coming. Yotes, on the other hand, are getting as bad as alley cats! Just because I live in IL does not in any way mean that it is the only state I hunt in.

wolf695
December 5, 2011, 07:14 AM
I was just stating a quote from Illinois digest of hunting and trapping regulations!p29 It's put in there because we have wolves in IL. Im sorry you haven't seen one! Try the north regions of the state.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 5, 2011, 02:28 PM
Done a bit of Yote hunting up around Rockfordand and Waukegan areas. Never seen a sign of Wolf in those areas but that doesn't mean much I guess. If they are around here already they are certainly in low numbers I am sure.

H&Hhunter
December 5, 2011, 02:32 PM
In the areas where Wolves roam, it is very doubtful that you will SPOT one past 250 yards anyway. They are MUCH more stealthy in their approach than a yote. Vastly more intelligent. So the need for a 500 yard varmint rifle is pretty much not needed.

FFIL

I'd see them at all kinds of ranges when I lived in Northern AK. Usually out of range and hauling butt!

Where have you shot all of your wolves?

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 5, 2011, 02:59 PM
Most of them in the Saskatchewan area. Heavy woods areas. 5 of them in the Wrangell and Ray mountains in Ak. Longest spot and shot was 175 yards and was dern lucky to spot it. Was my biggest Wolf to date, 146 pound blackie. .220swift with 50gr V-Max sitting on 44.5gr H380 spitting right at 3900fps. Dead center chest just below the neck. DRT. Them Ak Wolves get pretty damn beefy to say the least. But they are still a TON easier to DRT than deer or hogs.

The only time I have ever seen them past 300 yards was while up on a mountain side in Montana glassing for Elk after they reintroduced them (the idiots). Saw a small pack trying to skirt a herd and cut them off. Was just a SLIGHT bit out of my range (little over 1200 yards) and not legal to shoot them since I didn't have a wolf tag. Matter of fact, I don't think they even had a season on them yet. Wasn't long after they reintroduced them.

H&Hhunter
December 5, 2011, 10:12 PM
Matter of fact, I don't think they even had a season on them yet. Wasn't long after they reintroduced them.

Considering that they just started legally hunting this year I'm thinking not.

Where in Alaska did you live?

TexasPatriot.308
December 5, 2011, 10:31 PM
a .22 long rifle or a .17hmr will do the job, a good sidearm will help. save your money.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 5, 2011, 11:51 PM
Considering that they just started legally hunting this year I'm thinking not.

Yeah I didn't think so.

Where in Alaska did you live?

Never lived there. Have been going up and hunting there since I was 9. My Uncle lived there for 35 years. McCarthy. Tiny little village with like 30 people. Loved it myself. He passed away 3 years ago and I haven't been there since.

H&Hhunter
December 6, 2011, 07:26 PM
That would explain the difference. If you were in McCarthy that is a whole different world from where I lived in AK. I lived in Fairbanks, Aniak, Nome, Kotzebue and Deadhorse at one time or another.

I did most of my hunting out of Kotzebue which is rolling tundra mainly, just south of the Brooks range. A guy can see a long long way up there from a vantage point. There are some black spruce and alder brush choked drainage but primarily we are talking miles and miles of tundra.

H&Hhunter
December 6, 2011, 07:28 PM
a .22 long rifle or a .17hmr will do the job, a good sidearm will help. save your money.

Or on the other hand don't waste your time with a .22LR or a .17 for wolf or coyote hunting. After expenses you wouldn't be saving any money at all as you'd not have much luck trying to swat either with a .22LR.

PoserHoser
December 6, 2011, 07:57 PM
a .22 long rifle or a .17hmr will do the job, a good sidearm will help. save your money.
:scrutiny: fail:banghead:

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 6, 2011, 08:49 PM
I did most of my hunting out of Kotzebue which is rolling tundra mainly, just south of the Brooks range. A guy can see a long long way up there from a vantage point. There are some black spruce and alder brush choked drainage but primarily we are talking miles and miles of tundra.

Ahhh the lovely Barren grounds! My Uncle used to fly us into Nome and we would go out to hunt bou every few years. Don't think I ever spotted a Wolf on any of those occasions. Have to say, I think I miss him almost as much as I do my pappy. Just don't think my legs would hold up walking on that tundra any more. You would think by looking at it that it would be easy walking. Good way to tell if someone is BSing about hunting that area, let them say it was easy walking!

TexasPatriot308, I think the OP is wanting a firearm to HUNT Wolf, not to defend against them. A .22lr or a 17hmr, while yes they could kill a Wolf, you ain't going to be effective at hunting them with such an anemic cartridge at hunting ranges. Drawing in a Wolf isn't like drawing in a yote. They are 2 completely different animals. Yotes are smart no doubt, but comparison of a Wolf and a Coyote would be about like comparing a 1rst grader to a college graduate. Wolves are by far one of the most intelligent animals in the wild. Just sit back and watch a pack tracking prey. I've seen them herd animals and drive them to choke points 100's of yards away. Just like humans would drive a herd of cattle. Then pinpoint attack from all different angles in a timed assault. It's actually quite beautiful to watch. Your typical calls for predators can work for Wolves, but bet on one thing, that animal will circle many times before approaching and you can almost bet it wont be alone! 100 pound or more Wolf is NOT an animal I would want to stake my life on a .22lr.

H&Hhunter
December 7, 2011, 07:26 PM
Nice video that really shows the size differential between a wolf and a coyote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=BXCvLzDNWz0

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 7, 2011, 08:22 PM
Nice video that really shows the size differential between a wolf and a coyote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=BXCvLzDNWz0

RUNNNNNNNNN Forest RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!! :)

Sorry, couldn't resist!!!

Lazy R
December 8, 2011, 01:21 AM
We are having our second wolf season here in Montana. First was in 2009, then it was closed in '10. Opened back again this year. Greenies (and federal judge) crying that the wolf populations will be hunted below sustainable levels. Joke. They could leave it open year round like coyotes and that wouldn't happen. So far I think they're well under half the quota of 200 or so wolves state wide. We'll never get rid of those things here now.

Most of them being shot around here are 75 to 100 pounds. A few of those big 150 lb ones have been taken though. They make a great picture, a guy holding one up it looks as big as he does.

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