Nice Buck Found Dead


PDA






35 Whelen
December 3, 2011, 11:32 PM
A buddy of mine was gathering cattle a few weeks ago when he found this buck. It was near the end of archery season so I suspect it's another deer lost to bowhunting.:cuss: Coyotes had already gotten most of it.

Looks like 15 points.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Wyliebuck.jpg




35W

If you enjoyed reading about "Nice Buck Found Dead" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Frozen North
December 3, 2011, 11:35 PM
Wow....

Sport45
December 3, 2011, 11:41 PM
I suspect it's another deer lost to bowhunting.

Too bad about that one.

Could it have been a vehicle strike, or a poacher with a .22lr?

On the other hand, jumping to conclusions is good exercise. :)

oneounceload
December 3, 2011, 11:43 PM
worth mounting

Frozen North
December 3, 2011, 11:43 PM
We found the victim of a lightning strike a few years ago... deer die from other things than people.

12gaugeTim
December 3, 2011, 11:52 PM
That's a nice rack.
I was looking for squirrels to shoot in the woods today and I heard a crash to my right. I look over and it's a small doe, wallowing in the creek, something they often do after being shot. I froze because I didn't want to scare it off, and it hopped up and ran right by me, only 10 feet away. I saw the blood on it's mouth and figured it had been shot or hit by a car. Had I known it was injured I might would've tried to shoot it in the head.. There's a good chance it's still suffering at this very moment.

35 Whelen
December 3, 2011, 11:56 PM
Could it have been a vehicle strike, or a poacher with a .22lr?



We found the victim of a lightning strike a few years ago... deer die from other things than people.

The buddy who found him was gathering cattle...and they ain't no roads where he was and we've been in the throes of a drought. A lightening strike probably would've started a range fire.

I was thinking more along the lines of space aliens shooting 17 HMR's...:D

35W

Sport45
December 4, 2011, 03:50 AM
Hey, you're free to believe whatever you want.

And I'm free to believe you maligned bowhunters without a fair trial. :)

BigN
December 4, 2011, 05:39 AM
I've found several nice bucks this year in the woods. Some were skinned, meat and horns still there, some were just shot and horns taken, left there for the critters. If you're going to shoot an illegal deer, you may as well take the meat and use it for some good.

Sport45
December 4, 2011, 05:55 AM
Is there a market for the horns?

It's too bad there aren't enough hunters with scruples or enough F&G officers out there to catch the ones that don't have scruples.

But, of course, I shouldn't call those who do what was described above "hunters".

I'll qualify what I've said by stating that I am not a hunter. In my youth I shot a lot of critters that in retrospect I shouldn't have. I'll shoot the occasional rabbit that decides it has more rights to my garden than me, but that's not hunting as much as pest control.

Gunnerboy
December 4, 2011, 06:26 AM
I agree on the bowhunters where i hunt they waste many a elk every year. :fire: like last year a cousin shot a bull with an arrow still stuck in its neck, or my grandpa shot a cow that had a old broad head with some shaft still sticking out all festered up on the cow in its spine, and i cant tell how many dead elk and deer ive found with arrows in the carcass or laying in the dirt with bones.

sixgunner455
December 4, 2011, 06:41 AM
Or the coyotes could have killed it themselves. Happens, even though it might not be often on a healthy, mature animal. Or a lion could have done it. Most stuff, when it dies, is meat for something else, no matter how it dies.

35 Whelen
December 4, 2011, 12:03 PM
And I'm free to believe you maligned bowhunters without a fair trial.


You're probably right and I guess that's a little unfair. I've developed a somewhat bad attitude towards some bowhunters, and I don't mean that towards all bowhunters. But every year I hear story after story of deer being lost to bowhunters.
A couple of weeks ago I was talking to a neighbor and he told me his uncle (also a neighbor) and his uncles 11 year old son had hit and lost five deer, including a 10 point buck, during bow season. Another friends son, an ardent bowhunter who uses his bow all the way through rifle season, usually loses one or two animals a year be it deer, hogs or turkey. Another buddies wife stuck a hog and that poor thing walked around for weeks with an arrow sticking out of its back. They even had pictures of it taken with their game camera. Anyhow, I digress....

I feel it was likely shot and lost during bow season for a few reasons.
In the state of Texas trespassing/poaching and killing game can now be charged as a felony. A game warden told one of our Hunter Education classes that when convicted of felony poaching a hunter loses EVERYTHING that pertains to hunting including firearms, knives, binoculars, etc. As such, incidents of poaching here are way down. Guys I know that used to drive the roads looking for quail to pot shoot or a deer to take off a remote wheat field wouldn't dream of it anymore. Yes, poaching still exists but not anywhere near on the level it did 20 years ago.
Occassionally stories and perhaps a game-cam picture of a mountain lion will show up around here but that's a pretty rare occurrence. Mountain lions cover what they don't eat and this wasn't covered.
Coyotes? Highly unlikely unless the buck was on his deathbed. This area is fraught with coyotes, but I've seen them in the presence of deer and the deer don't give them so much as a second glance.
Anyhow, whatever got it, what a shame.

35W

Sport45
December 4, 2011, 12:42 PM
It could well have been a bowhunter, not saying it wasn't. It's just that we don't know for sure.

By the same token, I suppose if archery season followed rifle season there would be bow hunters complaining about all the wounded animals they see. Since there are more rifle hunters with about the same range of experience between the two groups it stands to reason the rifle hunters loose as many animals. It's just there aren't a lot of people left scouring the woods after rifle season.

It's a shame either way that fine animals go to waste for whatever reason. If only they could all be cleanly killed and the meat put to good use.

rondog
December 4, 2011, 12:49 PM
My dad found two dead bucks once while quail hunting. They'd been fighting and their antlers were locked so tightly together you couldn't even wiggle them. I don't remember the # of points, but they were pretty big boys. I think one of my brothers still has those antlers, dad sawed them off the skulls.

35 Whelen
December 4, 2011, 01:05 PM
You know, it just occurred to me that most people probably don't know what "gathering cattle" means. When someone is gathering cattle, it means they're horseback likely because they're in an area that doesn't have many roads. That's why I think it's unlikely the buck was poached.

35W

Rembrandt
December 4, 2011, 01:19 PM
While in a sporting goods store the other day I met a fellow bow hunter who was telling me about his season so far......he's arrowed a 140, 150, and 160 class bucks, but has failed to recover any. Had all kinds of excuses why they didn't drop on the spot. Guys like this should be relegated to animals more befitting their skill level, like barnyard critters that give them more than one shot opportunities....perhaps goats, sheep or feeder pigs.

While shotgun deer hunting yesterday I found a dead 10 point that the coyotes had been feeding on.....along with an arrow in the carcass. Too bad American archery hunters are not required to pass a proficiency test like European hunters do.....

Ankeny
December 4, 2011, 02:07 PM
Too bad American archery hunters are not required to pass a proficiency test like European hunters do..... Same could be said about firearms. FWIW, I hunted with a bow for many years, but I gave it up because of the disproportionate loss of animals in comparison to firearms (myself and others).

35 Whelen
December 4, 2011, 03:59 PM
The main difference in a bad shot with a firearm and a bad shot with an arrow is that with a firearm there's much larger margin for error. For example if a broadside shot on a deer with a reasonable rifle goes a little high, above the lungs yet below the spine, the deer is likely going to go down on the spot, at least in my experience. I really appreciate the candor of people like Ankeny.

35W

sixgunner455
December 4, 2011, 05:25 PM
Game camera shows coyotes killing buck. (http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/jiofds-2fnd983-fnkl2i2-2789ndf98?et_mid=526382&rid=3433709)

I agree that it's probably unlikely, and not common, but I've seen coyotes chasing a doe, and the game camera slide show above is graphic evidence that they will kill whatever they can get away with.

I love archery, I love making arrows and relaxing with my kids in the yard quietly shooting targets, but I don't hunt that way. I've seen too many things that make it something that I don't think I'd care to do. I know that archery can be very effective, and is probably the only safe way to harvest urban deer, but ... unless I were in one of those urban areas with plague-like infestation of deer, I don't think I'd do archery on deer.

Hard to say what killed that buck, without being able to examine the kill site.

bejay
December 4, 2011, 06:41 PM
im sure there is probably alot more deer that has been lost when shot with a firearm than a bow it can happen with either one.

dogrunner
December 4, 2011, 11:38 PM
In terms of recovery I'd bet the rate in a State such as mine with extremely heavy vegetation is less than 20%. Even using tracking dogs can be a losing issue if the area has a lot of game. Had a friend wound and lose two deer in one morning hunt prior to getting me to bring a really good bluetic tracker..........total waste of time, deer will hit water or really heavy palmetto clumps that're occupied mostly by buzz tails.

I truly believe that folks would be really shocked if any real figures as to recovery could be made, but thats an impossibility.

Ranger30-06
December 4, 2011, 11:51 PM
Too bad American archery hunters are not required to pass a proficiency test like European hunters do.....


Here in Jersey, your required to shoot 3 or 5 arrows at a target 25 yards away and at least more than half into the kill zone of a deer target to get an archery hunting license. I must say, the only dead deer I see are ones hit by cars on the side of the road. This was a year ago when I breezed through the booklet just to see what you had to do... It really gets to me when people are okay with being completely irresponsible about this stuff.

ZeroJunk
December 5, 2011, 12:27 AM
Here in Jersey, your required to shoot 3 or 5 arrows at a target 25 yards away and at least more than half into the kill zone of a deer target to get an archery hunting license


Although that is not a bad idea I don't know what all it tells you. Most bow shooters who have been doing it for a while will tear their fletchens off standing on the ground shooting groups at 25 yards repeatedly.

But, deer don't stand still, let you get in the position you like, and wait for the arrow to get there after they here the bow snap.

I think a lot of guys think because they can shoot saucer sized groups at 40 yards they can kill a deer at that distance. Hell, a deer can move several feet in the time it takes an arrow to travel 40 yards. Unfortunately arrows don't travel faster than the speed of sound.

Double Naught Spy
December 5, 2011, 12:53 AM
The buddy who found him was gathering cattle...and they ain't no roads where he was and we've been in the throes of a drought. A lightening strike probably would've started a range fire.

Probably not. While things were dry here, when conditions produced lightning, very few of the strikes caused fires relative to the number of strikes that occurred.

...because they're in an area that doesn't have many roads. That's why I think it's unlikely the buck was poached.

You know, some of the best places to poach are extremely remote locations where the poachers have the least chance of being spotted or encountering another human. While the nearest road may be quite distant, many poachers use various forms of motorized transport from trucks to ATVs.

[QUOTE]In the state of Texas trespassing/poaching and killing game can now be charged as a felony. A game warden told one of our Hunter Education classes that when convicted of felony poaching a hunter loses EVERYTHING that pertains to hunting including firearms, knives, binoculars, etc.QUOTE]

Actually, poaching may be charged as a felony regardless of whether the poacher was trespassing or not.

Also the only gear being confiscated is gear used directly used in the offense, not everything that pertains to hunting.
http://www.lrl.state.tx.us/scanned/srcBillAnalyses/76-0/HB2526ENG.PDF

shiftyer1
December 5, 2011, 01:12 AM
My son found the remains of a recently deceased doe on our property today. I know for sure it hadn't been shot by rifle or arrow. Sometimes deer just die, nothing lives forever. If your friends property is a large secluded parcel like mine i'd suspect coyotes before poachers/hunters.

35 Whelen
December 5, 2011, 01:20 AM
Probably not. While things were dry here, when conditions produced lightning, very few of the strikes caused fires relative to the number of strikes that occurred.

Perhaps, but I think it's infinitely more likely that a range fire be started by lightening, than a buck be killed by it.


Also the only gear being confiscated is gear used directly used in the offense, not everything that pertains to hunting.

Really? O.K., you can argue with the Game Warden as you probably know more about game laws than he. Remember, those were HIS words, not mine.

35W

Rembrandt
December 5, 2011, 08:10 AM
Here in Jersey, your required to shoot 3 or 5 arrows at a target 25 yards away and at least more than half into the kill zone of a deer target to get an archery hunting license.

Hitting more than 50% might be a passing grade in today's educational system, but in hunting it should be 90% or better. Who ever came up with that qualifier should be charged with wonton waste of game.

Ranger30-06
December 5, 2011, 09:55 AM
Hitting more than 50% might be a passing grade in today's educational system, but in hunting it should be 90% or better. Who ever came up with that qualifier should be charged with wonton waste of game.


I agree to the point of, if you aren't able to make a hit, don't shoot. You hear "it moved at the last second!" so much it's not even funny.

Double Naught Spy
December 5, 2011, 10:33 AM
Perhaps, but I think it's infinitely more likely that a range fire be started by lightening, than a buck be killed by it.

Nice misdirection. The dichotomy wasn't whether a lightning strike would be more likely to start a range fire or more likely to kill a deer. Another posted mentioned deer killed by lightning and you commented that you thought that if lightning had struck that it would have caused a range fire. You seemed to be arguing that since there was no range fire, that it was unlikely that the deer was struck by lightning. I simply pointed out that very few fires are caused by lightning strikes relative to the number of strikes. The deer could have been killed by lightning and there have been no associated range fire. Sure, it is unlikely for a deer to be struck by lightning just like it is unlikely that a human would be struck by lightning, but hundreds of folks are struck each year by lightning, either directly or through ground strikes. Non human animals do get struck and sometimes they survive and sometimes they do not.
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/07/mammal_deaths_by_lightning.php
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?StoryID=62280

Really? O.K., you can argue with the Game Warden as you probably know more about game laws than he. Remember, those were HIS words, not mine.

I cited the bill that made poaching able to be prosecuted as a felony (in some cases) that stated what could be confiscated if a hunter was found guity of poaching. I don't care if the words were his or not, you were passing them off as factual. If you can find statutes that say otherwise, post them.

CoRoMo
December 5, 2011, 01:26 PM
The moose don't get too big here in Colorado, but one of the largest racks that I've seen off a Colorado moose was found by my dad a few years back while elk hunting. The whole skeleton was lying in a creek where the squirrels and porcupines couldn't eat the antlers up; perfectly preserved for who knows how many years. There was, what looked to be a bullet hole (~.45cal) in the skull, right above the right eye, but I also thought it was an archery bull that had run off and gotten lost, down in the willows at the creek.

Hunterdad
December 6, 2011, 07:51 AM
I had three bow hunting acquaintances of mine lose bucks this year. All 3 of them a exceptional shots with the bow too. Its too bad.

35 Whelen
December 6, 2011, 08:58 AM
I cited the bill that made poaching able to be prosecuted as a felony (in some cases) that stated what could be confiscated if a hunter was found guity of poaching. I don't care if the words were his or not, you were passing them off as factual.

Exactly. And on this subject, I'll continue to believe him rather than a nameless, faceless person sitting at a keyboard. And you didn't cite a bill, you simply made a statement.

35W

Art Eatman
December 6, 2011, 11:54 AM
Texas law provides for sequestration of the equipment used in the illegal hunt. It does not apply to other hunting equipment not at the scene, not used in the crime.

35 Whelen
December 7, 2011, 12:21 AM
Texas law provides for sequestration of the equipment used in the illegal hunt. It does not apply to other hunting equipment not at the scene, not used in the crime.

Well, then I guess he, and therefore I, were wrong!

35W

birdshot8's
December 7, 2011, 04:14 AM
I know of a .27 caliber bullet removed from the neck of a large boar that had been killed with an arrow. The archer said the bullet was deep in the neck of the hog and the wound had healed.
I also have hunted on a very large ranch in south Texas that gets very little pressure. There was numerous skulls with fantastic racks in the brush, the deer were thought to be dying of old age. The guides said we could not take the found racks from the ranch so what was found was piled up at the camp. Made a very impressive sculpture.

35 Whelen
December 7, 2011, 06:11 AM
Texas law provides for sequestration of the equipment used in the illegal hunt. It does not apply to other hunting equipment not at the scene, not used in the crime.

But let's not for get that if convicted of said felony, the hunter is no longer allowed to own firearms.

35W

Double Naught Spy
December 7, 2011, 11:12 AM
But let's not for get that if convicted of said felony, the hunter is no longer allowed to own firearms.

Right, but that is by federal law as well as losing the right to vote. Nobody is forgetting these. They just aren't part of the wildlife laws in question.

RinkRat
December 15, 2011, 05:01 AM
My Dad, our Scout Master said, "Kill What You Eat ... Eat What You Kill!!"

Or just let it be on its way!

FLAvalanche
December 15, 2011, 05:25 PM
That's proof of Chupacabra!

tnxdshooter
December 15, 2011, 05:54 PM
You know, it just occurred to me that most people probably don't know what "gathering cattle" means. When someone is gathering cattle, it means they're horseback likely because they're in an area that doesn't have many roads. That's why I think it's unlikely the buck was poached.

35W

Thats what it means in Texas. Here in TN on our farm we use a feed bucket and call them and they come running. For the real stubborn ones we turn the aussie loose on em.



Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless

tnxdshooter
December 15, 2011, 05:57 PM
While in a sporting goods store the other day I met a fellow bow hunter who was telling me about his season so far......he's arrowed a 140, 150, and 160 class bucks, but has failed to recover any. Had all kinds of excuses why they didn't drop on the spot. Guys like this should be relegated to animals more befitting their skill level, like barnyard critters that give them more than one shot opportunities....perhaps goats, sheep or feeder pigs.

While shotgun deer hunting yesterday I found a dead 10 point that the coyotes had been feeding on.....along with an arrow in the carcass. Too bad American archery hunters are not required to pass a proficiency test like European hunters do.....

Only time i have seen an arrow stick in a carcass is when someone thought they would try things the Barta way and shot em with a long bow. Ive never seen one shot with a compound bow with the arrow still in it. More often than not the arrow goes right through it.



Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless

wankerjake
December 15, 2011, 09:48 PM
It's a big buck and a nice find, regardless of how it went down.

gamestalker
December 15, 2011, 10:13 PM
My son and I stumbled on a really nice buck couse deer last year and it had an obvious bullet hole through and through the rib cage. It wasn't but 40 or 50 yds. form the road, and we found it in the place were it was shot and dropped, so I know it wasn't a case of a wounded deer someone lost. It makes me sick to see such waste and disregard for our wildlife.

Personally, I feel if a person paoches a deer for the meat, the legal system should take it easy on them, especially so if it involves a needy family. But to kill one and then leave it for the crows and coyotes, that's a terrible crime, and sinful as well.

351 WINCHESTER
December 15, 2011, 10:32 PM
About 5 years ago I took the kids hunting. I sent Coulter down the road and told him to find a trail and walk it out. He was back at the road in less than 5 minutes with the prettiest 8pt that I've seen in a while. About 2 hours later here comes a 60's vw beetle with an 80's man and his wife. I told Coulter to show him the buck and the old gent replied "I shot that deer last year and couldn't find it". I told Coulter that the old gent was probably telling the truth and probably wouldn't shoot another in his lifetime. Coulter declined to give him his rack. It was his decision.

I have not seen the old guy since.

LoonWulf
December 16, 2011, 02:30 PM
As Tnxd said, generally a compound (or any bow that generates decent velocity) will punch its arrow clean thru...well just about anything...unless you hit a very solid bone square, or have the shaft break which is odd, but not unheard of, especially with people shooting undersized arrows. My issue with bow hunting is that its alot like pistol hunting, in that it takes more......dedication? skill? restraint?, not exactly the words i want, to be fair and humane. With an arrow you kill by stabing your target ONCE, it dosent generate the shock trauma or even the wound channel a bullet does. A good shot will very rarely drop an animal on the spot, but more often then not requires patience to wait for the animal to die and a decent ablity to track. I bow hunt, but im neither sneaky enough, nor patient enough to get many shots ill even consider taking. As a result i shoot very few animals, not that it maters as there is no hunting seasons here.

On a side note, where i lived growing up there was a lot of poaching at night, as well as semi-legal hunting during the day. My friend and I killed a number of deer with bullets still in them, and we found quite a few carcasses that i would be willing to bet were killed and lost by rifle hunters. Poor ethics, and decisions can be made by all.

Yarddog
December 16, 2011, 02:56 PM
"[It's a big buck and a nice find, regardless of how it went down]"

^^^^^^^^^Agree^^^^^^^
The only deer I lost with a bow on public land, had tire tracks backed up to were it was
drugged to :-( PS If I don't have a good shot, I DON'T take one ; )
Y/D

langenc
December 16, 2011, 05:19 PM
While in a sporting goods store the other day I met a fellow bow hunter who was telling me about his season so far......he's arrowed a 140, 150, and 160 class bucks, but has failed to recover any. Had all kinds of excuses why they didn't drop on the spot. Copied from above.

Fat too many hunters-bow/rifle, dont look for an animal after shooting. If it dont drop, they must have missed. Go find another.

Trent
December 17, 2011, 02:15 AM
Game camera shows coyotes killing buck. (http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/jiofds-2fnd983-fnkl2i2-2789ndf98?et_mid=526382&rid=3433709)



Holy crap, that's flipping amazing!!!!

I *never* would have thought a couple of 40 lb coyotes could take down a 200+ lb buck. Not in a million years.

Art Eatman
December 17, 2011, 10:04 AM
A buddy of mine pointed out that when a buck is in velvet, the blood flow into the antlers saps his strength to some extent. Further, the antlers in velvet are very sensitive; too much so for any sort of fighting.

Dr. A
December 17, 2011, 09:05 PM
I manage my farm for deer, with QDM management techniques. Unfortunately there are slob hunters on both sides of the equation. I began bow hunting in addition to rifle hunting to increase the likelihood of actually seeing bucks. I keep track of individual deer, and found this year as well as many other years, that fences as well as autos take quite a number of our bigger dear. One particular large buck died in August from Bluetonge. It claimed a huge number of Kansas deer this year. When you are in the field constanly, you suddenly find out nature can be quite severe as well as hunters.

jrhines
December 17, 2011, 11:12 PM
At a deer check station in NW Virginia, about 15 yrs ago, I saw a 6 point in the bed of a pickup with an arrow in him. Nice shot, just behind the left front leg, at or very near the heart. The arrow was also embedded about 1/2 inch into the bed of the truck. Hellofa shot!

kyle1974
December 17, 2011, 11:27 PM
Deer can and do duck arrows. It's one of the risks to taking deer with a bow. I see plenty of people wound game with both, I agree that the margin of error is smaller with a rifle, but I think the average bowhunter fires FAR more practice shots than the average rifle hunter prior to and during season.

tnxdshooter
December 17, 2011, 11:41 PM
Deer can and do duck arrows. It's one of the risks to taking deer with a bow. I see plenty of people wound game with both, I agree that the margin of error is smaller with a rifle, but I think the average bowhunter fires FAR more practice shots than the average rifle hunter prior to and during season.

Speaking of that i saw this crazy idiot bow hunting a lion in africa. He shot it once, she charged he shot it again it did a front flip and died.


Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless

If you enjoyed reading about "Nice Buck Found Dead" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!