the misuse of scripture in threads, Luke 22:36


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1hogfan83
December 5, 2011, 01:56 PM
Luke 22:36: He said to them, ďBut now if you have a purse take it, and also a bag; and if you donít have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Many people would take this verse literally, Jesus telling his disciples to arm themselves once he has been crucified and left them. The problem lies in that only one the one line of scripture is posted.

Luke 22:35-38 says:

35 [Jesus] asked them [the eleven apostles], "When I sent you out without a purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
They said, "No, not a thing."
36 He said to them, "But now the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me: ĎAnd he was numbered among the lawlessí; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled."
38 They [the disciples] said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"It is enough," he replied. (NRSV)

Verse 38, 2 swords for 2 of the 11 disciples, "It is enough." Everyone seems to forget that part. Jesus didnít intend to use this to start a rebellion or to even stop his arrest. When Peter drew his sword to cut off the ear of one of the guards, Jesus commands him to sheath his sword. The number of swords does have meaning, 2 swords for 2 criminals. In those days criminals carried swords, Jesus was crucified with 2 criminals. Luke 22:37: For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me: ďAnd he was numbered among the lawlessĒ; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled. The scripture he was fulfilling was Old Testament scripture, Isaiah 53:12.

To sum up the scripture, the swords represented the two criminals crucified beside Christ. Iím sorry it was so long, Iím not a writer, Iím not a preacher, but I just hate it when people base their carrying guns on that one passage.

Do I believe in carry guns, completely. Do I own guns in my home and carry? Yes, Smith and Wesson 1911PD and a Kahr cw9. If youíre going to quote scripture thatís fine, just pick the right one. Thanks for reading.

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hso
December 5, 2011, 02:20 PM
We'll have to be very careful not to cross into a debate about religions, but since many people do look for religious context to support RKBA it could be interesting to discuss the use and miss use of religious quotes to support or undermine RKBA.

Let's just keep this focused on using quotes from religion instead of faith.

Stophel
December 5, 2011, 02:20 PM
Excellent, thank you!

However, I think we must take note that our Lord had no problem with His followers being armed (only later when Peter misused his).

zxcvbob
December 5, 2011, 02:24 PM
He also told Peter to put the sword away; he didn't say throw it away.

1hogfan83
December 5, 2011, 03:17 PM
This is not to be an argument of faith, it is based on a religious fact. You could even argue that it was a jewish religion, since christianity had not been formed yet. Basically what i'm trying to say is that the bible can be made to say anything you want it to say. I have learned a lot through the quotes in peoples threads, unfortunatly I'm afraid that people have gotten the wrong image based on just this one verse.

bjs1187
December 5, 2011, 03:41 PM
I'm intrigued by this thread. What other verses are there that are pro RKBA?

Loosedhorse
December 5, 2011, 03:42 PM
Scripture is not about guns. Anyone who quotes scripture to further his position about guns (or any other political topic) is not "using" Scripture as it was intended.

I do understand that anti-gunners sometimes also quote the Bible, and will say things like "turning the other cheek" (Matt 5:39) means you should not practice self-defense. The temptation to respond in kind is great.

In Matt 6:28, Jesus says, ""And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing..." Perhaps Jesus is telling us to wear no clothes, and not to work? ;)

The Bible can be used to reshape one's life. It should not be used to try to win hot-issue arguments. That shows little respect for Scripture, IMHO.

1hogfan83
December 5, 2011, 03:54 PM
The reason I posted this is because some liberal left winger might see some of these passages and think that all christians are carrying guns. Someone will take another post like what you just posted and think that we can run around naked and lazy. Im guessing your an Obama socialist supporter? Work little and beg hard.

Lucky Derby
December 5, 2011, 04:04 PM
Scripture is not about guns. Anyone who quotes scripture to further his position about guns (or any other political topic) is not "using" Scripture as it was intended.

I do understand that anti-gunners sometimes also quote the Bible, and will say things like "turning the other cheek" (Matt 5:39) means you should not practice self-defense. The temptation to respond in kind is great.

In Matt 6:28, Jesus says, ""And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing..." Perhaps Jesus is telling us to wear no clothes, and not to work? ;)

The Bible can be used to reshape one's life. It should not be used to try to win hot-issue arguments. That shows little respect for Scripture, IMHO.
Loosedhorse, while I agree that the Bible is not about guns directly, the Bible is about all things in life, including guns. The Bible can (and should IMHO) be used to shape your life, and that would include use and/or carry of guns or other weapons for purposes ranging from defense to hunting to war. I don't have a problem with it being used to sway opinion, as long as it's not taken out of context. For it be used in this manner would require the audience to be believers.

Yo Mama
December 5, 2011, 04:16 PM
The highest commandment is Thou shall not murder , but was translated to Thou shall not kill. Depending on the version you read, it shows differently and has different implications.

hso
December 5, 2011, 04:25 PM
Pity that this thread couldn't stay focused on the misquoting of religion to serve both sides of the RKBA argument.

An even greater pity that it couldn't stay free of insults.

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