nike defense on the border


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tomaz45
December 18, 2011, 07:10 PM
During this season's deer hunt, I had to use the "Nike Defense" (feet, don't fail me now) when, along with my daughter-in-law, we encountered a band of "undocumented aliens" in a canyon some 50 plus mile from the border. I knew what we had for fire-power but I didn't know what they had or how many they had. In conversations over the past 2 weeks I found two other friends that had had similar situations. I had not told them of my experience, but was simply talking about this season's hunts. All three encounters were duly reported, but the jest of it was that collectively we had seen more dope than deer. Three seprate hunts, three seperate areas covering 60 plus miles, over a period of 2 months. Homeland Defense says the border has never been more secure. I can say that after more than 50 years on the border, while we have never had as much enforcement, I have never felt more insecure. My question to my fellow hunters, who have hunted the border regions, is "is this just happening in my little corner" or is it as wide spread as I believe it may be.

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rcmodel
December 18, 2011, 09:06 PM
or is it as wide spread as I believe it may be.
I live in eastern Kansas, not far from the exact center of the United States.

Last night I ask the bus boy we had seen for years at the restaurant we were in, how long he had been here?
(Meaning how long had he worked at the restaurant?)

He glanced at my SIG-SAUER cap, turned an interesting shade of grey/green, growled something in Spanish at me that sounded dirty, and disappeared out the back door!

I guess I made a cultural Faux Pas? :o

Seems to me he has "been here" long enough (10 years maybe?) to learn basic English, but I guess not?

As an aside, east Topeka KS, less then 20 blocks from the state capitol, looks like downtown Tijuana, without an English language business sign in sight.
It changed from a getho to Little Tijuana in just the last few years.

rc

Rail Driver
December 18, 2011, 09:09 PM
For what it's worth, it's not just Mexicans coming into this country illegally. Jamaicans, Cubans, and Haitians are commonly found in my area (there are frequently arrests, but very very few deportations.)

jbkebert
December 18, 2011, 09:18 PM
Some friends of mine hunt a couple times a year in Del Rio, TX. It went from just watch out and if you see illegals avoid them. Then it went to bring a pistol along with your bow. Last year it was if you have a assult rifle and pistol bring it along.

my friends showed me pictures of them bow hunting with ar-15's strapped to the side of their packs and a pistol on their hip. I have been invited along but no thanks.

87jeep
December 18, 2011, 11:41 PM
In AZ I would never hunt south of PHX, Unless U are ready for a WAR! Life is different near the border, some people have hunted west of us and had no sightings or problems and others have seen too much.

BBQLS1
December 18, 2011, 11:48 PM
Maybe pressure on the aliens has moved them into your territory.

armoredman
December 18, 2011, 11:54 PM
I stay armed at all times, especially since fed.gov ceded them that corridor right up through my county. I wouldn't ever go out into the desert without friends with rifles. It's an incredible shame that law abiding residents have to flee from armed invaders and fed.gov not only refuses to admit the issue, but actively works against border states trying to stem the tide.

o Unforgiven o
December 18, 2011, 11:56 PM
Maybe pressure on the aliens has moved them into your territory.

Either way, I recommend a PS90 with some good 5.7x28 ammo. ;)

castingdonkey
December 19, 2011, 01:54 AM
sounds like some hombres need to get together and detain them suckers til ice shows up.

shiftyer1
December 19, 2011, 02:13 AM
I've heard a first hand account of someone that went along with the tx border guard << not sure if thats the correct name. They watch things and call them in. He had nite goggles on and saw countless illegals and at one point people with packs and someone looking back at him with goggles.

This is one man, three nights, in three spots. The border is completely sealed........ with velcro.

jmr40
December 19, 2011, 07:04 AM
For what it's worth, it's not just Mexicans coming into this country illegally. Jamaicans, Cubans, and Haitians are commonly found in my area (there are frequently arrests, but very very few deportations.)
__________________


This is very true. We have a lot of Mexican immigrants here in N. Georgia as well. I have know many. FWIW, the Mexicans living here are for the most part legal, hard working, honest folks wanting a better life for themselves and are willing to help make this a better country. It is the illegals from farther south in Central America that migrate up through Mexico into this country that are causing most of the problems here. My law enforcement friends tell me they rarely have problems with the Mexicans, but the gangs from Columbia, Honduras, etc. are another story.

Flintknapper
December 19, 2011, 07:42 AM
My Brother's Father-in-Law has a 6,000 acre ranch near Del Rio, Texas (heavily managed for whitetail) and they have had to padlock all the Deer Stands to keep illegals from sleeping in them.

Usually, they would be up and be gone before daylight...but the guides and clients were running into the "late sleepers"...so padlocks were installed. There have been no violent confrontations.

This has become a common problem for ranchers/landowners near the border.

Please don't try to tell any of THEM how "sealed" the border is...or "how much better it is".

Ghost Tracker
December 19, 2011, 09:24 AM
You can judge the true worth of any country by how many people are trying to get in vs. how many people are trying to get out. While I have no idea why we seem so disinterested and/or incapable of enforcing immigration law. I guess we can all take some (small) satisfaction in the fact that we're citizens of the country that people still will risk any/everything to get to.

Art Eatman
December 19, 2011, 10:19 AM
Stay with border-area locations where hunters have had encounters. Otherwise, threadlock...

sixgunner455
December 19, 2011, 04:09 PM
I hike and hunt in S.E. Arizona year-round, usually within sight and sometimes spitting distance of the border.

I've not encountered drug mules, per se, but I have seen lots of Spanish-labeled trash, and non-English speaking hikers who seemed a bit lost, and lost, injured non-English speaking hikers who needed help.

I usually arrange for the lost to be found. As I am always armed when out and about in this country, and usually have at least one dog with me, I have yet to have any serious personal trouble with them. So far, they have been very polite and respectful.

A rancher was killed last year by unknown persons after he called in reports of drug mules present on his land. I tend to be very careful where I go by myself as a result. I usually can't find people to hike or hunt with me, so ... I take Mr. Smith, Mr. Wesson, and my canine friend.

Maybe people with hunt with me if I showered more? IDK. Probably a topic for another thread. :D

Wes Mantooth
December 19, 2011, 05:57 PM
About 25 years ago my dad and I used to camp out and fish on the Rio Grande on a private ranch about 60 miles west of Del Rio. We saw some folks trying to cross just down river of our camp. My dad was LEO at the time and we were with a Game Warden friend of ours. My dad and his friend put their .45's in their waistband, turned off the camp fires, grabbed their fishing poles and headed down to the river. The "immigrants" got the idea and turned around.

Last year we were talking about going back down there one more time before dad gets too old to do it ( he's 77). Thankfully we came to our senses. It's gonna turn into a war zone down there.

My dad always said that Mexico would take back Texas without firing a shot. Unfortunately there's some shots being fired.

Maple_City_Woodsman
December 19, 2011, 07:09 PM
Many have no interest in LIVING here at all - simply a necessity of accomplishing their goals. A decade of frugal living, making some modest bank here in the USA will set them for the rest of their lives back in Mexico.

sixgunner455
December 19, 2011, 08:00 PM
Maple - I have no problem with that, so long as their travel and existence doesn't endanger me and mine who ARE living here.

The last guy I helped out wasn't a hazard to me. He popped out on a trail I was hiking up, no shoes, no food, just a sweatshirt, pants, socks, and a Gatorade bottle he'd been refilling from the stream.

His ankle was broken, and the group he was with took his shoes and all his money, and left him high and dry in the mountains. He'd have died if they'd done that where there wasn't any water. As it was, I'm sure he got giardia from that stupid creek. People are found dead every year out here, from exposure, dehydration, being shot in the head by the coyotes, etc, etc. It's a dangerous crossing.

That guy got half my hiking food, and got carried off the mountain on a litter by the BP and county sheriff deputies.

castingdonkey
December 20, 2011, 04:04 PM
Why the hostility ART? The issue with the regions from where the illegals come from is not so much the issue for Americans as it is for the illegals. The different cartels will control labor forces in different regions of the country. Remember if you hire a guy from out in front of home depot that a cartel guy gets 2-4 bucks and hour off what he earns. I do not feel good that illegals risk everything to come here. Growing up in a heavily populated illegal area in Ca a fella gets to know that the ones from Mexico and their poorly raised childrenare just as dangerous as the rest. The biggest threat in socal is the drunk drivers they take out Americans everyday down there. I have some squirell hunting buddies that have run into Illegals east of san diego and got real nervous and left. They said that one of the 10 or so guys did not take a friendly or passive stance toward them.

NOLAEMT
December 20, 2011, 06:07 PM
Its not hostility, It is a desire to stay on topic. This thread is about encountering immigrants while hunting, not about the politics of illigal immigration.

Bobson
December 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
I don't have any firsthand experience to add to this thread, but those of you who do hunt or hike in areas close to the border may want to add the US Border Patrol number for suspicious activity to your phones. 1-800-BE-AWARE (1-800-232-9273). Call it if you run into any suspected "hoppers."

Carrying quality GPS ought to be done any time you hunt or hike in the wilderness, but having one will also allow you to give accurate information for BORSTAR, should they need to be involved.

BORSTAR is the US Border Patrol Search, Trauma, & Rescue team. Basically very specialized search and rescue - their training is known to be simply outstanding. They actively recruit retired and honorably separated Air Force Pararescue, and other military special ops guys. Very interesting career for anyone interested in this side of LE, especially if you have the background. A PDF with more information can be found here (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_security/border_patrol/special_oper/borstar/).

castingdonkey
December 20, 2011, 06:43 PM
Seems any useful info on illegal immigrants can help keep a guy safe while hunting near the border.

2005 Vette
December 20, 2011, 09:30 PM
Not hunting but similar topic. I was playing golf on vacation in McAllen Texas at a course that actually is right on the USA Mexico border. I was paired with a retired gentleman who I notice had a shot gun in his golf bag. I questioned him on it not knowing was I paired with a nut job. He explained that a couple of fine Mexican nationals came across the border and robbed him at gun point right on the golf course. He said that won't happen again and has carried the shot gun every time he plays this particular course. Interesting character.

Rail Driver
December 20, 2011, 09:33 PM
Not hunting but similar topic. I was playing golf on vacation in McAllen Texas at a course that actually is right on the USA Mexico border. I was paired with a retired gentleman who I notice had a shot gun in his golf bag. I questioned him on it not knowing was I paired with a nut job. He explained that a couple of fine Mexican nationals came across the border and robbed him at gun point right on the golf course. He said that won't happen again and has carried the shot gun every time he plays this particular course. Interesting character.
His response sounds fairly mentally sound to me...?

788Ham
December 21, 2011, 01:49 AM
My buddy's son is a game warden { proper name? } in AZ, is out every day doing wolf studies, sometimes on a mule, most times afoot. The warden has many times seen "mules" in his area of work, 10 - 20 at a time, found their stashes hidden in the brush when they've spotted him. The warden had carried just a sidearm previously, now carries a .308 rifle as well, when he leaves the pickup. The instances has increased 10 fold over the past 2 years, be safe!

BikerRN
December 22, 2011, 02:35 AM
I hunt on our southern border, as that's where my preferred game animals are at.

I have to keep eyes in the back of my head and view it like I'm in Indian country in the 1870's. I look to avoid other people, always carry more than one firearm, and will do nothing to help an illegal or dope mule other than mention it to the Border Patrol, along with a general location. I figure the more of them that die in the desert the less encounters I and others will have.

I am all for reducing the number of encounters between hunters, property owners, and folks out doing legal activities and the illegal aliens, dope mules, and other assorted criminal types along our border. Sadly the border is not secure and it's more dangerous now than it has ever been.

Biker

baylorattorney
December 22, 2011, 02:57 AM
Nothing new. Armed Traffic is increasing. Washington DC won't recognize the problem. We are on our own. Self defense begins with self.


Mark, esquire

BikerRN
December 22, 2011, 02:37 PM
Sadly while we may be on our own we still have to follow laws that don't fit the situation on the border.

Back in my Great Grandparent's time they could shoot Indians on sight and I say that's what we should be able to do to illegals, dopers, and other vermin on the border.

Biker

MCgunner
December 22, 2011, 09:37 PM
That's pretty scarey running into drug smugglers in the desert like that, goes way beyond illegals coming in for other reasons. These guys are armed and dangerous and ain't afraid to shoot you on sight.

We went out to Big Bend last spring since my new wife has never been there. I wanted to show it to her. She had no idea such country was in Texas. There are signs all over the park noting not to engage anyone you run across. We were not to buy trinkets from the locals at Boquillas, something done at 911, nothing to do with drugs or mobsters. But, it's hard on the folks at Boquillas as the tourists were their main...only....income.

We saw no one suspicious, just some locals fishing in the river at Boquillas canyon. I did some hikes, carried a 4" .357 magnum in a fanny pack figuring I needed something with some reach to it. Of course, in the park, it's gotta be concealed per state rules. No open carry of anything, rifles or handguns.

I can tell ya, it ain't any "better", the violence across the border is getting worse and worse and lots of 'em are getting over here just out of self preservation and, I mean, I can't really blame 'em! It is invading this state/country, too, as we've had some incidents of shootouts with DPS and such here. The governor has rangers, DPS, guard down along the border, but not near enough. It's a mess. Juarez seems to be the worst of it. They've even gotten rounds hitting the city hall in El Paso from fire fights across in Juarez.

Not sure what all that has to do with hunting. I wasn't hunting in the Bend, just hiking, but hunters out in west and down in south Texas see this sort of thing all the time. My wife's cousin has a lease just a few miles from the river down south east of Eagle Pass. They've had hunts ruined by border patrol blazing across the ranch after either mojados or drug runners, not sure which. They sat on a hill and watched the action one day. This has happened several times on this lease to them and two were just this year. This is a lease of about 2K acres.

Yeah, it's bad.

Zombiphobia
December 22, 2011, 09:44 PM
It's not just you, it's all over the southern border. I think the Laredo and Nogales areas are the worst tho being the most major USA/Mexico entry points besides San Diego/Tijuana.. but it's too heavily populated to allow the same amount of armed foot-crossing.

They've sent mass text mesages for contract killings, put up recruitment signs on the highways... don't go out unarmed and do not approach them. If you're driving thru a rural area near the border and see any hitch-hikers.. sorry bud, gotta leav 'em, not safe to help them.

It's the result of a cartel fued is all.

I used to live near Antelope Peak where a Pinal County deputy was shot while(for some stupid reason) attempted following a group of smugglers on his own. I'm sure plenty of you have heard... somehow he missed the fact that most of them were carrying AK's and Mac 10's.. I dunno how someone conceals an Ak-47, but as soon as he crested the hill they disappeared behind, they opened fire; obviously knew he was following them and was alone, so they ambushed him and called in their pick-up on Highway 8. They were gone before the deputy's back-up could arrive.. which consisted of most cop-power within 3 surrounding counties including helicopters.
A friend of my wife said her mother witnessed the men load their bales into the truck, rifles visible, and drive off. She was too afraid to report it/ which direction they went, but it eventually got out.

A few weeks later, two smugglers were shot by an unknown shooter(who was reportedly alone) and their call to 911 was repeated several times; the operator could hear the 'victim' begging for his life, praying, and said 'I'm where the deputy was shot at antelope peak'. This is how messages are delivered.

BTW, the National Guard troops deployed to the southern border have no authority to open fire, apprehend etc.. they still must call the Border Patrol... that's what i read, anyway.

BikerRN
December 23, 2011, 01:02 AM
A few weeks later, two smugglers were shot by an unknown shooter(who was reportedly alone) and their call to 911 was repeated several times; the operator could hear the 'victim' begging for his life, praying, and said 'I'm where the deputy was shot at antelope peak'. This is how messages are delivered.

That is a message that should be delivered to anyone that crosses the border illegally.

Biker

788Ham
December 23, 2011, 01:40 AM
I'm not for sitting out in the shade waiting on these cholos, to shoot on sight or even condone this practice. But as my buddies son said, "One never knows when you'll run into 10-15 of them, they just show up around the bend in the creek." If they're carrying AR's and Mac -10's, you won't stand a chance!

My meaning earlier, if one is legitimately hunting, fishing, or just hiking, its terrible we have to resort to carrying firearms, just because of dope mules and illegals, but Obama and his cronies have brought this onto all of us. The article in this last weeks Denver Post, telling about the US and Mexico wanting to put in a kiosk, of all such crap, for the illegals to pass through, not take so much time to get on their way. What is this crap about? A kiosk, why did they bother putting in a fence, why don't they just cut a big hole in the fence, and tell them free beer and agua?

Zombiphobia
December 23, 2011, 02:44 PM
That is a message that should be delivered to anyone that crosses the border illegally.


No it shouldn't.

Way things are now, I'm not sure I could even justify shooting the drug mules. Last year South of Brownsville the Zeta's seized and executed 72 people for refusing to run drugs for them. Those people only wanted a better life and died for it.

The Zeta's are the ex-enforcers of the Juarez cartel who decided to go into business for themselves. Much of the violence on the border is because of that.

But go ahead and start a gun-fight with some of those guys, I guarantee you won't make it out alive.

Art Eatman
December 23, 2011, 02:47 PM
Looks like we've covered the subject fairly well, for now...

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