[shiftyer1]

Is there a difference between concealed in a vehicle and a handgun concealed on ones person while IN A VEHICLE?

[calaverasslim]

No difference but when you step out of the vehicle, better make sure the weapon stays in the vehicle and out of sight.

[Flintknapper]

I'm not sure the purpose for your question, but Texas defines "concealed" (in regards to handguns) in the following way:


"Concealed handgun means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person."


You are NOT required to have a handgun on your person (while in a vehicle) in order to conceal it...if that is what you are wondering.

Also, (in Texas) you are not required to have a CHL in order to carry a handgun in your vehicle...since you are covered by the Motorist Protection Act... (provided you are not otherwise prohibited).

If you can elaborate the purpose for your question we may be able to help answer it.

[TexasRifleman]

Also, (in Texas) you are not required to have a CHL in order to carry a handgun in your vehicle...since you are covered by the Motorist Protection Act...

This is true but keep in mind the actual wording of the statute DOES say "your vehicle or vehicle under your control" so just riding with your buddy in his car wouldn't be covered. Carrying in a rental car would.

[Rob G]

Is there a difference between concealed in a vehicle and a handgun concealed on ones person while IN A VEHICLE?

Legally no. But from a practical standpoint I never carried on my person in a car prior to having a CHL. My main reasoning was that it would have been too easy for me to stop for gas, food, etc. and forget to take the gun off my belt before getting out of the car, especially if I was distracted. At which point of course I would have been carrying without a permit. So I never kept the gun on me but instead would put it in the center console, or door map pocket, or maybe just on the passenger seat with a jacket over it.

[1948CJ2A]

Just get your CHL and then you won't have to worry about it.:)

[medalguy]

^^ What he said. :D

[brnmuenchow]

Just get your CHL and then you won't have to worry about it.

What he said.

Agreed. My cousin was worried about traveling with his gun he does not have a CHL and I told him that if he broke down, or had to leave the vehicle you have to leave the gun in the car. ---Not an option I would like either, so I got a CHL and now no worries.

[Flintknapper]

TexasRifleman wrote:

This is true but keep in mind the actual wording of the statute DOES say "your vehicle or vehicle under your control" so just riding with your buddy in his car wouldn't be covered. Carrying in a rental car would.

Yes, and I when I wrote "Your vehicle" I mean't it first person not third, but it could be misunderstood...so good clarification.

MPA:

H.B. No. 1815


AN ACT
relating to the prosecution of certain offenses that involve carrying weapons on a person's property or in a person's vehicle.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:

SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection
(a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he] intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
SECTION 2. Section 46.15(b), Penal Code, as amended by Chapters 1221 and 1261, Acts of the 75th Legislature, Regular Session, 1997, is reenacted and amended to read as follows:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2) [is on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);
[(3)] is traveling;
(3) [(4)] is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
(4) [(5)] holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas [Board of Private Investigators and] Private Security Board [Agencies], if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's place of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;
(5) [(6)] is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code [Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes], to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;
(6) [(7)] holds a security officer commission and a personal protection officer authorization issued by the Texas [Board of Private Investigators and] Private Security Board [Agencies] and [who] is providing personal protection under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code [the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes)]; or
(7) [(8)] holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises.
SECTION 3. The following provisions are repealed:
(1) Section 46.15(h), Penal Code; and
(2) Section 46.15(i), Penal Code, as added by Chapter 288, Acts of the 79th Legislature, Regular Session, 2005.
SECTION 4. The change in law made by this Act applies only to an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An offense committed before the effective date of this Act is governed by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and the former law is continued in effect for that purpose. For purposes of this section, an offense was committed before the effective date of this Act if any element of the offense was committed before that date.
SECTION 5. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.

[TexasRifleman]

Yes, and I when I wrote "Your vehicle" I mean't it first person not third, but it could be misunderstood...so good clarification.

Oh I wasn't meaning to correct you or anything, just making sure people understood that little gotcha. I've talked to lots of folks who missed that little detail and believe that it just means any old car.

[CoRoMo]

(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
No open-vehicle carry in Texas? Can you keep more than one handgun concealed in your vehicle there?

[TexasRifleman]

No open-vehicle carry in Texas? Can you keep more than one handgun concealed in your vehicle there?

Texas has no open carry of any kind for handguns outside of your home or real property that you control.

No limit to the number of handguns, as long as they are concealed.

In fact, Texas is one of only a very small number of states that have no provisions for open carry at all.

[Flintknapper]

CoRoMo wrote:

No open-vehicle carry in Texas?

Not of handguns, long-guns are legal. In fact you may openly carry any (legal) long-gun on your person as well (anywhere legal to do so), but it can not be done in a fashion as to intentionally alarm people (paraphrasing).

[JRH6856]

you may openly carry any (legal) long-gun on your person as well (anywhere legal to do so), but it can not be done in a fashion as to intentionally alarm people (paraphrasing).Right. So I would not recommend walking down Main Street in Dallas or Houston with a 12ga or AR15, over your shoulder.;)

It's legal, but its probably going to alarm a lot of people. And whether or not the alarm is intentional, a court could decide that a reasonable person would be alarmed, and that a reasonable person would realize this and avoid such action. Thus, openly carrying any weapon in an inappropriate location could be construed as intent to alarm.:eek:

[CoRoMo]

I knew Tejas prohibited open carry one's self, but was surprised that it also extends into your vehicle. I'll have to keep that in mind when I'm down there next. Geez.

[shiftyer1]

Yes what I meant carrying concealed on my person compared to concealed???in a glove box or however. The reason for my question is because at home I am armed, my driveway is about 3 miles long with the last mile out being county road. I very often jump in the truck with my keltec or something in my pocket or concealed on me and drive to the end to pick the kids up from the bus. I don't get out of the truck but it is on me.

It occured to me that the last mile if by chance I got pulled over I may be illegal. Now realize that the odds of this happening is very low, i'd probably have a better chance at winning the lottery.

So if I understand correctly....concealed means concealed period, in a vehicle and if it's concealed on your person it's fine.

So let say you are carrying and got pulled over and asked to STEP OUT of the vehicle. Is the correct response....Officer i'm armed and need to disarm before exiting the vehicle?

[JRH6856]

So let say you are carrying and got pulled over and asked to STEP OUT of the vehicle. Is the correct response....Officer i'm armed and need to disarm before exiting the vehicle?

Yes, but I would try to disarm myself as soon as I saw the lights in my mirror. And if the gun is someplace where it is not easy to reach while driving, you should rethink how you carry concealed in a vehicle. :)

[NavyLCDR]

Yes, but I would try to disarm myself as soon as I saw the lights in my mirror.

Officers are trained to watch for suspicious activity inside the vehicle from the minute they turn on their lights. Actions to disarm yourself when the lights are on behind you is putting yourself and others in danger by handling a firearm while driving and may raise suspicion in the officer watching you. IMHO, bad idea.

[JRH6856]

Officers are trained to watch for suspicious activity inside the vehicle from the minute they turn on their lights.

True. But then many people respond to the lights by reaching for DL and Ins Card, which involves a very similar sequence of motions. There is a lot of conflicting advice regarding traffic stops. Some say keep your hands in sight, others say have your DL and Ins Card (and registration in some states) ready.

I have done both, and have asked officers which they prefer and their preferences are as varied as the advice. There doesn't seem to be a standard answer. YMMV unfortunately

[CollinLeon]

Back before we had thrown off part of the yoke of Yankee imperialism by enacting our CHL law, there were still plenty of people who believed that the 2nd Amendment was the only "law" they needed when carrying on their person or in their vehicle. Of course, the NRA was very responsible for the anti-2nd-Amendment legislation being passed throughout the US.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/8608/3/

Maybe it's not politically correct to say that on forums like this, but the NRA has not always been a friend to the 2nd Amendment. There's some of us who still hold a grudge for what they did to the 2nd Amendment.

Prior to the CHL law in Texas, we had the concept of "traveling", but that got interpreted by each judge differently, so it was a definite case of being guilty until proven beyond any shadow of a doubt innocent. Many people carried back then and figured that they could claim traveling. Most never encountered a problem with the legal suppression of our 2nd Amendment rights and didn't get to find out how screwed up our law was. Some found out that the district attorneys are not interested in justice, they're only interested in bringing money into their city at the expense of the honest citizen. I had a Fort Bend County assistant district attorney (Pedro Ruis) say to me once, "Well, I don't own a gun and I don't see why anyone else should". Unfortunately, this sort of excrement is what you have to deal with in the legal "profession", so it is in your best interest to not be noticed (or to be undeniably legal in what you are doing). At one time, my weapon of choice for vehicular carry was a Winchester 1300 "Defender" pistol grip 12-gauge shotgun. I would carry it to and from my vehicle each day and never had any problem with the gangbangers who thought that they could "mark their territory" on cars and buildings where I parked. There were a couple of incidents with police who asked me why I was carrying around so much firepower and I simply told them, "Because it is legal"... I was told that as long as I was not brandishing it in a threatening manner (i.e. pointing it at someone), a shotgun or rifle could be carried in most places in Texas. You were prohibited from carrying it at a place licensed to serve alcoholic beverages, a court of law, a polling place (on the day of an election), the secure area of an airport, and I think one more place which I can't remember off the top of my head right now. If you were just carrying it in one hand with your hand wrapped around the receiver at the balance point or in a sling across your shoulder, it wasn't considered "in a threatening manner"... Maybe putting a flower in the barrel would make it even less "threatening"?

[JRH6856]

You were prohibited from carrying it at a place licensed to serve alcoholic beverages, a court of law, a polling place (on the day of an election), the secure area of an airport, and I think one more place which I can't remember off the top of my head right now.

On school grounds

[TexasRifleman]

Maybe it's not politically correct to say that on forums like this, but the NRA has not always been a friend to the 2nd Amendment. There's some of us who still hold a grudge for what they did to the 2nd Amendment.

It's not that it's politically incorrect, it's that it's not true. If you are going to post this sort of thing it's very important to post the entire story. You have only posted half of it, which is what folks with an agenda usually do.

[CollinLeon]

It's not that it's politically incorrect, it's that it's not true. If you are going to post this sort of thing it's very important to post the entire story. You have only posted half of it, which is what folks with an agenda usually do.
I posted a link to the article. Read it for yourself. It's a fairly long article and it would not be fair to quote the entire text here, but here's the first few paragraphs:


Today, the NRA is the unquestioned leader in the fight against gun control. Yet the organization didn’t always oppose gun regulation. Founded in 1871 by George Wingate and William Church—the latter a former reporter for a newspaper now known for hostility to gun rights, The New York Times—the group first set out to improve American soldiers’ marksmanship. Wingate and Church had fought for the North in the Civil War and been shocked by the poor shooting skills of city-bred Union soldiers.

In the 1920s and ’30s, the NRA was at the forefront of legislative efforts to enact gun control. The organization’s president at the time was Karl T. Frederick, a Princeton- and Harvard-educated lawyer known as “the best shot in America”—a title he earned by winning three gold medals in pistol-shooting at the 1920 Summer Olympic Games. As a special consultant to the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws, Frederick helped draft the Uniform Firearms Act, a model of state-level gun-control legislation. (Since the turn of the century, lawyers and public officials had increasingly sought to standardize the patchwork of state laws. The new measure imposed more order—and, in most cases, far more restrictions.)

Frederick’s model law had three basic elements. The first required that no one carry a concealed handgun in public without a permit from the local police. A permit would be granted only to a “suitable” person with a “proper reason for carrying” a firearm. Second, the law required gun dealers to report to law enforcement every sale of a handgun, in essence creating a registry of small arms. Finally, the law imposed a two-day waiting period on handgun sales.

[Flintknapper]

shiftyer1 wrote:


Yes what I meant carrying concealed on my person compared to concealed???in a glove box or however. The reason for my question is because at home I am armed, my driveway is about 3 miles long with the last mile out being county road. I very often jump in the truck with my keltec or something in my pocket or concealed on me and drive to the end to pick the kids up from the bus. I don't get out of the truck but it is on me.

For the part of the road that is owned by you (no easements involved) you are free to have the gun in your vehicle concealed or exposed. Once you reach the public/state owned portion you must conceal it (whether on your person or not, you choose). At this point you will be governed by the Motorist Protection Act.


It occured to me that the last mile if by chance I got pulled over I may be illegal.
It would be illegal if not concealed.

Now realize that the odds of this happening is very low, i'd probably have a better chance at winning the lottery.
Also realize "Murphy" is alive and well. ;)

So if I understand correctly....concealed means concealed period, in a vehicle and if it's concealed on your person it's fine.
Yes, IF you have a handgun with you (non-CHL), are carrying under the MPA, and are not otherwise prohibited...just make sure it is concealed (doesn't matter where it is).

So let say you are carrying and got pulled over and asked to STEP OUT of the vehicle. Is the correct response....Officer i'm armed and need to disarm before exiting the vehicle?
Yes, but also ADD that you are carrying under MPA (the reason for needing to disarm) and ASK HIM/HER how they would like for you to proceed. Then follow their instructions SLOWLY. You should be fine. They might wish to disarm you themselves or not.

[CollinLeon]

Would have been nice if they had said that as long as you were within 1000 ft of your vehicle or property... Not as good as just finally admitting that NFA34 and GCA68 are totally unconstitutional, but it would be a good start...

And while we're at it, isn't this "law" biased toward people in automobiles? What about people who commute on bicycles to work? Are they less deserving of self-protection?

[dogtown tom]

CollinLeon And while we're at it, isn't this "law" biased toward people in automobiles? What about people who commute on bicycles to work? Are they less deserving of self-protection?

Our state legislature couldn't care any less about anyones gun rights. We're lucky Alice Tripp does such a good job for the TSRA.

[The Sarge]

................................. Stupid Texas Law................................
I have my fully loaded AK47 hanging in the window everywhere I go=legal
I have my Glock in my glove box=legal
I have my Glock sitting on the passenger seat=illegal
I have my CHL and have my Glock on the passenger seat=illegal
I have my Glock on my passenger seat on my private property=legal
I have 37 fully loaded AK's and AR's in my truck bed driving around town=legal
I have a pair of wire cutters in my back pocket=illegal
Eating somebodies garbage without their permission=illegal
Eating somebodies garbage with their permission=legal
Riding a horse without taillights at night=illegal
Riding a horse with taillights at night=legal

And to finish up stupid Texas Laws.....
It is against the law to buy beer after Sunday midnight in Houston. But OK on Monday.

[JRH6856]

And while we're at it, isn't this "law" biased toward people in automobiles? What about people who commute on bicycles to work?Yes, it is at least biased in favor of motor vehicles. But the law says you must be inside or or en route to a motor vehicle. Motorcycles are motor vehicles, and what has always puzzled me is how do you get inside of a motorcycle? :scrutiny:

Also, the law specifically says en route to a motor vehicle, but not en route from a motor vehicle... So once you get the gun inside the motor vehicle, do you have to leave it there?:confused:

[Byrd666]

...But please DO check COUNTY LAWS ,as I found out recently some counties in Texas find it illegal to carry a (loaded) weapon/gun concealed in your vehicle. Not sure though how that relates to a legal CHL holder, still waiting on a response to my inquiry.

[JRH6856]

IANAL, but generally, when state law and city ordinances conflict, state law prevails. Except in cases where state law allows local control. And unless I am mistaken, Texas counties can't enact ordinances such as you describe .

[GEM]

San Antonio has an ordinance against carrying a loaded long arm. Would it stand - probably not - but the law is taking you for the ride. I asked the SAPD and that was their opinion.

It was designed to bust gang members carrying SKS rifles way back when.

[The Sarge]

...But please DO check COUNTY LAWS ,as I found out recently some counties in Texas find it illegal to carry a (loaded) weapon/gun concealed in your vehicle.
County regulations and law cannot conflict nor over ride State law. Ask Harris County....they were the first to get knocked down when they tried it.

[The Sarge]

San Antonio has an ordinance against carrying a loaded long arm. Would it stand - probably not - but the law is taking you for the ride. I asked the SAPD and that was their opinion.
Only if you are actively in the commission of another crime does the firearm come into play. Just driving through San Antonio enjoying the stench....nope.

[Byrd666]

No offense meant but, somebody really needs to tell that to Tarrant county. A friend of mines' brothers pistol was confiscated and he was ticketed for carrying his loaded pistol concealed, within reach, in his car. He was stopped for a minor traffic thing, can't remember exactly what.

[The Sarge]

And your friends brother could have any attorney get that thrown it.

[JRH6856]

And your friends brother could have any attorney get that thrown it.Unless he was committing some other violation other than a minor traffic violation. Such as DUI?

[Byrd666]

I'll pass that along. And no DUI that I know of.

[GEM]

Here's a link to the San Antonio law discussion:

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gun-legislation-sponsored-class-3-weapons/25926-legal-carry-rifle-trunk-my-car.html

Rule:

Sec. 21-16. - Carrying loaded rifle or shotgun.

It shall be unlawful for any person, other than duly authorized peace officers, to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun on any public street within the city or in a motor vehicle while the same is being operated on any public street within the city.

(Code 1959, § 26-28)

Doesn't say anything about a crime. So Sarge - you are wrong.

Is it legal - probably not. Come be our test case, Sarge.

[Twmaster]

Interesting and informative thread. On Monday 1-16 I officially become a Texas resident. I will be carrying in my truck. What duty to inform do I have if stopped by an LEO?

I will not have the pistol on my person. (And yes, I'll be getting a CHL as soon as practical.) :D

[JRH6856]

On Monday 1-16 I officially become a Texas resident. I will be carrying in my truck. What duty to inform do I have if stopped by an LEO?Only CHL holders have a duty to inform. A handgun in a motor vehicle must be concealed and must remain so. Disclosure to LEO is voluntary unless asked. If asked, you must disclose as possession if not illegal but lying to LEO is--unless you are in possession unlawfully, then you can plead the 5th. (The preceeding is my opinion based on my understanding of the law. I am not a lawyer so it does not constitute legal advice.)

[dev_null]

No local preemption, AFAIK.

However, as noted above, it's not clear to me how motorcyclists are supposed to comply with this -- note that I'm talking about the "Traveling" part of the law, as I don't yet have my TX CHP:

... inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

If I'm stopped, is it better to have it on me, or in my backpack (bungee'd to the seat)? Does it need to be unloaded? In a locked pistol rug or case?

[Art Eatman]

dev_nul, start a new thread with your question, please. This one has run its course.