[Valera]

Good evening,

Being the resident of a suburb in Buffalo, New York, I have the misfortunate of being subject to the non-sunset assault weapon ban. As such, it is not often when I come across an AR pistol. Today is not one of those cases.

One of my friends from the local gun range is asking me to make him an offer for his NYS pistol permit-registered Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol. He has indicated that it can use any upper and it does not have non-standard pin locations. On the other hand, I was making arrangements to buy a never-assembled virgin Essential Arms pre-ban lower.

I am between the two. I was under the belief that Bushmaster does not make a quality product. I am sure that this bias was instilled onto me from my friends as I can see that there are a lot of fans of Bushmaster having perused the threads on here and on other forums. Adversely, I haven't heard of Essential Arms until today. Should I go with the Carbon 15 or should I go with the Essential Arms lower? I'm current leaning towards the latter because I had planned on replacing the upper anyways. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[Ranger30-06]

If the Carbon 15 is registered as a pistol, you still can't add a stock or barrel longer than 16". AR pistols are a little bit of a touchy area; No foregrips, longer barrels, or stocks, and with that buffer tube hanging off of the rear end, mobility is somewhat limited.

With that out of the way, if you want a .223 handgun that takes AR magazines go with the Kel-tec PLR-16. It doesn't have that obnoxious buffer tube hanging off of the rear, it's a bit lighter, it's more ergonomic than an AR pistol, and a little more friendly towards one point slings. (Because it attaches right onto the back without anything special).

[460Kodiak]

There is also the Sig Sauer P556 pistol, the RRA PPS Pistol and Olympic Arms makes one too. None of them have buffer tubes on the back, but they are a lot mmore spendy than the Kel Tec.

I'm thinking of getting one too. I've been looking at them for 4 years, and keep writting them off as inpractical and a waste of money. Then I realize that it doesn't have to be practical, just desired. I'm leaning toward the Sig for several reasons. It is based on the AK action and rummored to be very reliable as a result, it looks the nicest of the three IMO, it has a 10" bbl rather than shorter like the others (lets face it, this really isn't a one handed weapon anyway, and more bbl will make it more accurate with better velocities), it has a 1:7" twist wich will also help in accuracy, and I can use Cabela's points on it since they carry and distribute this gun (and I have a lot of points). Check them out. Just don't expect any of them to be a riffle I say.

Of course, what I'd really like to buy is the LWRC AR pistol, but I'm not paying 2K for one.

[USAF_Vet]

If the Carbon 15 is registered as a pistol, you still can't add a stock or barrel longer than 16". AR pistols are a little bit of a touchy area; No foregrips, longer barrels, or stocks, and with that buffer tube hanging off of the rear end, mobility is somewhat limited.

Ranger, is that a New York law? I was under the impression that the latest ATF decision stated you could go from pistol to rifle and back without any paperwork. Because of this, I was considering an AR pistol and some extra rifle/ carbine length uppers and an extra tube and stock. As the weapon started it's life as a pistol, I could convert it to a rifle any time I pleased, and convert it back to a pistol the same way.

[Ranger30-06]

Ranger, is that a New York law? I was under the impression that the latest ATF decision stated you could go from pistol to rifle and back without any paperwork. Because of this, I was considering an AR pistol and some extra rifle/ carbine length uppers and an extra tube and stock. As the weapon started it's life as a pistol, I could convert it to a rifle any time I pleased, and convert it back to a pistol the same way.
Yea, my bad there. That law says you can go from registered pistol to rifle, but not rifle to pistol. You have to watch to make sure you don't accidentally go SBR either...

[460Kodiak]

That's only if it is registered as a pistol? So If I live in a state where no registration is needed of handguns can I put a longer buffer tube, a stock, and riffle upper on a pistol lower? Or is that a federal law since the lower will leave the manufacturer labeled as a pistol?

And I mean a full 16" bbl riffle, not an SBR.

[Ranger30-06]

That's only if it is registered as a pistol? So If I live in a state where no registration is needed of handguns can I put a longer buffer tube, a stock, and riffle upper on a pistol lower? Or is that a federal law since the lower will leave the manufacturer labeled as a pistol?

And I mean a full 16" bbl riffle, not an SBR.


As long as your over 21, I would assume so. The law was to prevent 18 year olds from building AR pistols from stripped lowers and parts kits.


For the rest of us, here's the simplified version:

Registered pistol >>> Rifle OK
Registered pistol >>> Rifle >>> Pistol OK
Registered rifle >>> Pistol ILLEGAL

Here in Jersey if you want to build an AR, you have to purchase the lower AND stock from the LGS, or by default it's considered a pistol. :banghead:

[Valera]

Thanks for the replies so far.

As great as it would be to have a SIG Sauer 556, the AWB in NY prevents me from doing so; it would not only be the semi-only variant of a full auto, but also have weight in excess of 50 oz, a threaded barrel and also a detachable magazine outside the grip. That pretty much leaves me with the only option of getting a pre-ban AR pistol or a virgin lower receiver.

The Bushmaster would be nice since it's already constructed. On the other hand, the Essential Arms lower would be a nice project that I could customize to my liking.

PS I am aware of the option of moving and getting a new AR pistol or, Hell, one of those fancy SBRs. Having been born and raised in Buffalo, I kinda developed a fondness and sentimentality for the city.

[460Kodiak]

No comments on you moving... People live where they live. I just think that it sucks that a bunch of states have such stupid laws. I'm glad I live in a free state where people are born with a SA revolver in their hands. Good luck to you.

[NG VI]

The 556 is a semi version of a full auto?

I am pretty sure it's never been a full auto, that it was designed so Sig could get into the U.S. civilian practical rifle market, and only has a passing resemblance to the old Sig/Swissarms rifles.

[TXSWFAN]

The Sig 556P makes a nice SBR.

http://i43.tinypic.com/52qlz.jpg

[Prince Yamato]

Get the virgin lower.

[OARNGESI]

The carbon 15 is a quality piece not top of the line but still really nice

[Valera]

NG VI,

It was my understanding that the 556 is the semi only variant of the 550, which gives it one of many marks against it for selling a pistol version in NYS. I'm not a lawyer nor do I work for the local ordinance; I just follow what they tell me since they are the ones who pass the judgment.

It'd be nice to have one regardless. Even a regular 556 would be nice, but they hacked that even further apart to make it NYS compliant. Hopefully, this AWB will be repealed soon though I'm not holding my breath.

[CZ223]

being junk started but it just isn't true. As far as the Carbon 15 goes, I have no experience with them other than to know that I don't like the way they feel and look.