Silencers for local at home target practice?


PDA






WaywardPilgrim
December 21, 2011, 10:18 PM
I've ordered Ruger's SR9c, live in the mountains, want to practice on my property without startling the neighbors. There's nowhere close enough to practice. I know nothing about silencers, but the idea is really appealing, tho' I don't expect it to be the answer---but I just don't know how they work; are they for limited number of rounds, etc, etc.

I have absolutely no sinister thing in mind; just want not to freak out the various neighbors who'll send the Sheriff if I can't keep it down. Is this as ridiculous as I'm afraid I'm gonna hear it is? It's not an easy question to just ask someone, and I don't yet know how to navigate this site to other possible silencer discussions. It definitely was not "intuitive" when I searched. Missing something.

Thanks. Bill
Evergreen, Colorado

If you enjoyed reading about "Silencers for local at home target practice?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
The Lone Haranguer
December 21, 2011, 10:31 PM
Overview of how suppressors work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor

Section of THR dealing with suppressors: http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=58


They will not literally silence the sound of the gunshot, but will greatly attenuate it. There will also be the sound of the sonic boom (unless you use subsonic ammo, typically with 147-grain bullets) and the action cycling. This should still be sufficient to not bother the neighbors. It would also be of great benefit for home defense, as the sound of a gunshot is amplified indoors. For other questions (federal and state paperwork, finding a threaded barrel, possible gun functioning problems and such), there are people in the above section far more knowledgeable than I.

rjrivero
December 22, 2011, 02:06 AM
You can own silencers in colorado. The basics you want to consider:
1. CALIBER:
Are you only going to shoot 9mm or do you want to shoot other calibers with your suppressor? (Consider getting a .45 caliber suppressor and you can shoot .45, .40, 9mm through it.)
Do you want to shoot any .22LR through it? (Consider a user serviceable or cleanable suppressor like the Liberty Mystic)
2. HOST:
Are you going to use it with your Ruger SR9C, or do you plan on getting a dedicated host? For the SR9C: You would have to have to either get a threaded barrel for your Ruger, or perhaps have the barrel threaded and a thread protector made for it for use when not using a suppressor that can be removed when you want to put your silencer on it. (If Ruger doesn't offer a threaded barrel.)

For a 9mm, there should be plenty of room on the barrel for threads and an adapter. You can have that work done by a good gunsmith, but I prefer to use ADCO FIREARMS for my barrel threading. They charge $155 for that service at the bottom of THIS PAGE (http://www.adcofirearms.com/shopservices/shop_.cfm?code=1).

To buy a dedicated host would be just buying a gun with a threaded barrel from the factory. Think: HK USP Tactical or FN Tactical.

3) YOURS FOR LIFE:
Typically, when you buy a suppressor it's "yours for life." The fact that it is required to pay a $200 Transfer tax essentially means that no one is going to want your used suppressor unless you dump it at a really cut rate price. Do your homework and get a suppressor that fits your needs.
4) Realistic Expactations:
As The Lone Haranguer stated, 9mm is typically supersonic at 115gr and 124gr bullet weights. The 147gr and (if you can find it) 158gr loads will be subsonic. Subsonic 9mm is A LOT of fun to shoot. You need to realize that a good suppressor will decrease noise by about 30db give or take. That's about the same amount as a pair of ear plugs. You need to have realistic expectations.

Feel free to ask about specifics when you have had a chance to look around and do some reading. This board is filled with friendly folk who would be glad to help you make the most of your choice(s).

I live next door to a horse ranch. I shoot on my property with suppressed firearms and the horses don't care at all. Therefore, my neighbors don't care and all is good in the country neighborhood.

tallpaul
December 22, 2011, 09:39 AM
As much as I like suppressors and own them if ya have the land for a safe backstop and if it's not against the law the sherrif kin pound salt! I have had them try to encourage friends to not shoot on their property inferring illegality but when pushed they just mumble because it is not illegal where we are shooting. Keep the shooting within reasonable hours and there should not be an issue. The horse folk n such need to train their horses to not spook.... I mean you have much right to use your property legally as they do.

Now having said that I just don't like the idea of folk knowing what I got etc so suppressors help keep the neighbors ignorant. If they do not know they can't blab to the crooks.

I want to know why a horse ranch trumps a shootin range in most folks eyes? I mean not everyone likes horses or their crap flowing downhill onto their property etc...


Btw get a good set up for rimfire, especially if for practice, I waited 20 some years ta get my rimfire suppressor n kick myself for not getting one quicker every day!

Ghost Tracker
December 22, 2011, 10:19 AM
Heck, why not just build an acoustically insulated shooting station? How near are your neighbors? With a little creative construction (baffles deflect & insulation absorbs) you'll have a very quiet 9mm. Combine that with sub-sonic ammo, a little distance & (poof!) a nice stereo system is considerably louder! But do put a roof on it...it's fun to shoot in the rain.

CoRoMo
December 22, 2011, 10:51 AM
The most difficult part of this scenario is finding someone who makes a barrel for this gun. After that, it's all cake.
http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Ruger-SR9c-Compact-Pistol-black-3.jpg

Ghost Tracker
December 22, 2011, 01:55 PM
...finding someone who makes a barrel I would check to see how close the SR9c barrel configuration is to the full size SR9. It might be surprisingly easy to find a "longer" barrel that fits the compact. Could be a simple chop & thread.

rjrivero
December 22, 2011, 05:14 PM
The most difficult part of this scenario is finding someone who makes a barrel for this gun. After that, it's all cake.

The original barrel can be turned down and threaded with an adapter fitted to maintain good lockup while allowing suppressor use. This Link (http://www.adcofirearms.com/shopservices/shop_.cfm?code=1) bottom of the page.

CoRoMo
December 23, 2011, 10:47 AM
Nice!

MasterSergeantA
December 23, 2011, 10:59 AM
Or you can try Mike Stannard at Tornado Technologies...

http://www.tornado-technologies.com/services.html

Good fellow and great work.

Ironman
December 23, 2011, 02:01 PM
Thats the sole reason I got into silencers. And now i'm just addicted to anything NFA related.:evil:

Its legal to shoot in my backyard in my county(lucky) but I wouldnt want to blast all day and piss everyone off. And with the right silencer you can shoot 22/9/45 and the neighbors wont be the wiser. Those who say that 9/45 is too loud for the backyard havent shot a quality silencer.

Most of the sound you'll get is from the projectile hitting the target. Since this video I've added a mix of dirt/rubber multch/wood mulch to lessen the impact sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKta1Ny-vSA

WaywardPilgrim
December 24, 2011, 08:01 PM
Wow! I got several responses---only yours read so far---Want to thank you for taking the time to respond. Thanks. I've learned a lot since the initial post. I am still very interested, but realize numerous issues, especially barrel and threading and function.

Mostly, just wanna thank you and all for reaching back. I've never interacted successfully in a forum before--so it's exciting, especially since I am new (@60) to firearms, pistols particularly. I'm still waiting for my Ruger SR9c; have one last payment before picking it up from the FFL dealer up here in the mountains. Can't wait to learn more from all of you. Thanks! Bill, Evergreen, Colorado @7,500ft (snowed in from blizzard 3 days ago)

AABEN
December 24, 2011, 08:37 PM
To own a silencer you will need a Federal stamp witch is 200.00 dollars if they have not gone up. It will take about 6 to 9 months to get one if you are approved.

WaywardPilgrim
December 24, 2011, 11:33 PM
GLITCHES & MAJOR LOST RESPONSES MAKING ME CRAZY. I spent an hour and a half answering all but two responses---individually and carefully, only to have the who effort dumped; I STILL don't know what I did. THEN, I REWROTE THREE QUARTERS OF THE EARLIER ONE ONLY TO BE TOLD I'M NOT SIGNED---THO I AM AND WAS SHOWN AS SIGNED IT AT THE TOP!!! SO I SIGN IN---ONLY TO HAVE MY SECOND HOUR LONG RESPONSE W/ ADDED QUESTIONS DUMPED AGAIN. (My poor Doberman is giving me the "Do I need to leave for a few minutes?" look. Dammit!

Saakee
December 25, 2011, 12:23 AM
You can just click back. Your information should still be available in the window.

redneck2
December 25, 2011, 07:52 AM
And, if you use wording like that in the future, you'll be banned for good. Back off or lose your chance to be here. This isn't like other forums you may go to.

I'd STRONGLY suggest you go back and delete/edit your post.

mmorris
December 25, 2011, 09:07 AM
Heck, why not just build an acoustically insulated shooting station?

Does anyone have any experience with insulated shooting stations? I have been interested in this approach since Illinois won't allow suppressors at all. I don't like interfering with the enjoyment of fishermen who have to make some effort to get to the lake I live by.

I have not had much luck finding info on effective construction designs.

Mike

mtrmn
December 25, 2011, 03:08 PM
This came from some European forum. Neat idea.

Saakee
December 25, 2011, 03:15 PM
The V Shapes are a chronograph?
Cool design:
It actually looks like a suppressor baffle design that popped in my head a few days ago.

mtrmn
December 25, 2011, 09:11 PM
The V Shapes are a chronograph?
Cool design:
It actually looks like a suppressor baffle design that popped in my head a few days ago.
Yes-he mounted his chrono on front of it all. I always intended to try this but never got around to it.
Like the OP, the main reason I bought my suppressor was to help my status with all the neighbors. Running a couple hundred rounds through my ARs got old really quick I'm sure. I bet this apparatus would help a lot, and you could adapt/design one for shooting pistols as well. Probably lining the tires with a layer of fiberglass insulation would absorb the sound even more.
I was reading a forum somewhere and there was a link that took me to a European shooting forum where I found the pics. In some countries over there it's considered rude to fire weapons without a "moderator". Here's the one pic I chose not to include before.

WaywardPilgrim
December 26, 2011, 01:40 PM
Thanks, Redneck. fyi, I've only recently participated in forums. Am still learning what's expected. I generally need to be honest and frank, even if inferring an honest need to cuss out loud on rare occasion. Nevertheless, I appreciate this site way too much--and social courtesy in general---to thoughtlessly say or do anything that is likely to be thought uncouth or offensive. It will not happen again. For what it's worth, I'm trying to eliminate all forms of uncouth behavior from any and all interactions with the world. I live alone, and cuss if I feel the need---as a simple form of exclamation---when no other words seem to fit the intensity of the moment. Still, to take that into any public environment---just not OK. Thanks again for reminding me to be the better version of myself. Bill

WaywardPilgrim
December 26, 2011, 03:15 PM
That sandwiched tire tunnel baffle device is pretty amazing. Can't quite tell how one can see the targets, esp. with a handgun. I like the idea of insulation in the tires, too.

Since my cabin is on a hillside, with a low ceiling basement room with 3 to 5 ft. high cupboard-door-like access to 12-15 deep upward tapered crawl space, it seems it could be made into a shooting lane. Still, it's an 85 year old cabin and that area is only partially inclosed and what is inclosed isn't insulated beyond 1/4 paneling. No presently affordable way to change that adequately. So then, I think a suppressor is the relatively affordable way to use that otherwise perfect space.

Can someone let me know if it's legal to have a machinist, rather than a licensed (?) gunsmith build a 'silencer'--without the jaw-dropping $200 "stamp" fee? It would'nt be something I'd carry; though, I s'pose if it worked well, I might like to transport it in my shooting bag for forest land plinking, where legal. so as not to disturb hikers or wildlife. I really don't quite understand that fee, especially if they're legal---save for the obvious deterrent-to-criminal element. Seems excessive.

Appreciate every thing every one of you have had to say. Thanks again.

tallpaul
December 26, 2011, 03:26 PM
There is nothing to understand other than it is a tax! The tax in today's dollars is cheap, I hear back in the day it was like 3000.00 now... It was and is a tool to restrict ownership and generate revenue....

To do so without the paperwork can and will likely lead to a felony conviction, jail time and a several hundred thousand dollar fine.... Ya can buy a nice legal suppressor and pay the tacos for less than the initial consults with your lawyers if ya get caught with an illegal one.... You make the choice! For me it is simple...

WaywardPilgrim
December 26, 2011, 03:36 PM
OK then. If that's how it is then it's just gonna have to wait. What with the fees, the barrel & barrel work, & what have you, it'd be more than I payed for the piece. I payed off my place, but my bone to bone hips cut back income dramatically. Still need to buy 500 to 100 rounds of ammo and find SOME place I can become seriously acquainted with the pistol. Then there's formal certification and carry permits. Still new at this, and times are lean. Not complaining---just trying to sort priorities.

Thanks for all the comments. Bill

mtrmn
December 26, 2011, 04:48 PM
The tire device looks like it's geared toward a scoped rifle looking through the oblong hole. If one made such for pistol shooting, I would think the hole would have to be a bit larger, and therefore require more tires/length to adequately contain the noise. It would probably have to be a permanent fixture limiting you to a single target area. OK for testing reloads (and I still may build one for my un-suppressed arms) but for just fun shooting it wouldn't really be much fun.

The $200 tax is a holdover from the National Firearms Act of 1934. If somebody wanted legal NFA stuff then they were gonna have to pay a huge amount of money for that priviledge. It was a huge amount during the '30's. Now it's just a PITA we have to put up with and still have to wait 6 months for Big Brother to say it's OK to put a muffler on our extremely loud toys. Cuz you know only spies and mob hit men use them evil old silencers.

The ONLY upside to all this I can see, and I'm sure it was un-intended, is that most any commercially available suppressor in the US will be of very high quality and carry a good warranty. This due to the fact that anyone willing to pay the high price, wait the long wait, and jump through all the hoops will expect it to be a lifetime purchase and it better be good. Oh yeah, you CAN build your own, but you got to pay that same $200 on a "form 1" instead of a "form 4", and you have to wait for approval before you even carve out the first piece.

The gubment requires you to have mufflers on your vehicles, workplaces must conform to certain noise guidelines and provide hearing protection to employees, etc etc. It is however a Fed offense to muffle a firearm without all the necessary paperwork. Such is the world we live in and it's steadily getting worse at an alarming rate.

blume357@bellsouth.net
December 26, 2011, 05:30 PM
That device I think is a better idea for what the original poster wants... I have not read all the responses, but has anybody mentioned that he is looking at spending probably close to a thousand dollars total to have a legal suppressor on an SR9?

Ghost Tracker
December 26, 2011, 06:00 PM
The previously provided European designs all seem to attempt something portable. This man owns the property. I would suggest a dedicated shooting station with walls that absorb & deflect the muzzle blast, but the shooter is INSIDE the station. For example, imagine a wooden shed or simple block building. It wouldn't REQUIRE a roof but I'd have one anyway, for shooting in the rain. You could then actually "store" stuff in it (mower, wheel barrow?) when not shooting and it would appear perfectly normal out on the property. You could even convert a stall in an existing barn. But inside this structure, a dedicated bench and/or station opens to an outdoor target area. Around that bench and/or station you create a "cocoon" by acoustically insulating the closest reflective surfaces (walls & ceiling). Build closer walls if you need. There are HUNDREDS of common, inexpensive methods to absorb/deflect sound. Google how guys cover cheap, quiet walls for home theaters or recording studios. Pink fiberglass insulation in the airspace trapped by stapled-carpet 2x4 walls, egg-crate foam mattress covers covered by Army Surplus wool blankets hung like furrowed drapes, 3" wide strips of corrugated cardboard stacked in alternating rows, the list is almost...infinite. The muzzle blast is muffled inside the structure with the shooter (and it's still MUCH quieter to him as well). The neighbors won't hear squat. Just make sure you have a nice, clear wide-angle view of the target area & "point" that noise source away from areas of concern.

Ranb
December 26, 2011, 09:40 PM
WaywardPilgrim,

I do not know of any extended barrels for your pistol, but I have read that Tornado Technologies will thread your existing barrel. http://www.tornado-technologies.com/ . I make silencers as a hobby and feel they are very effective at reducing noise, but they are expensive. I bought about $2000 in lathe and other tools to make my own and it is a rewarding hobby, but not for everyone. With the cost of the lathe/tools included, my silencers cost about $200 each not including the ATF's $200 tax.

An enclosed shooting position may be best solution for you as it works for everything. There are several ways to do this. You can use an insulated drum to stick the muzzle into. I have also seen small buildings built that have a small shooting port lined with baffles and foam. I built a shooting box from three foam filled steel doors to help contain the very loud blast of 50 bmg rifles for my local range.

A box or drum that encloses the barrel will reduce blast noise heard by those people downrange or to the side but not reduce noise for the shooter. If you are inside of a shooting house, then you will most likely need double hearing protection to protect your ears.

Try checking out the internet for enclosed shooting rooms and other enclosures. http://silencertalk.com is the best place for info on silencers. Feel free to PM me for details on either method.

Ranb

WaywardPilgrim
December 27, 2011, 06:21 PM
Thanks, GhostTracker.

Those are some great ideas. I'm concerned that--one neighbor in particular--is too close, and in the direction, generally, that I'd be most concerned about. I'd answered your previous posts in detail--but they vanished, not sure how---anyway, your ideas got me thinking of my basement room. It's a low ceiling 12x12, but it has a cupboard style door, about chest high, that leads to dirt crawl space---another 12 to 15 feet, tapering up to where the cabin is footed into the hillside. Still, I don't know how much sound projects forward (the crawl space is only semi closed in, with gaps; also, the bsmt room is just 2x4 with 1/4" paneling. That's why I kinda liked the tire contraption. Not much fun, but at least I could maybe put a few hundred rounds through the gun to properly break it in, and become more familiar with handling it. It's do-able, but I gotta think on it. Your ideas have moved that thinkin' ahead considerably! Thanks again. Bill

WaywardPilgrim
December 27, 2011, 07:16 PM
Deleting this and any of my posts non-related to thread, specifically, as a courtesy to participating members.

WaywardPilgrim
December 27, 2011, 07:18 PM
Trying to delete non-pertinent posts by me.

Ranb
December 27, 2011, 07:40 PM
Don't go just yet. After you are done writing your post and before you click the "post reply" button, drag the mouse over the text you wrote and right click to copy it to the clipboard, or copy it to a word processing program so it can be spell checked.

Then if the website leads you to log in again and your window of text is lost, you just need to paste the words you wrote back into the reply window and hit post again. Nothing is lost. Operating the website is like loading ammo, just need to learn how to do it properly.

Ranb

WaywardPilgrim
December 28, 2011, 08:04 PM
Dear Ranb; Thank you. The hi-lite and clipboard is the perfect solution. Happy New Year! B.

Saakee
December 28, 2011, 09:27 PM
Cut removes, Copy leaves original info there.
It's like picking up a story during assemblage phase of making a paper. It's still there, it's just in abeyance until you paste it (or copy/cut something new and erase the abeyanced data)

WaywardPilgrim
December 29, 2011, 06:17 AM
Thanks, Saakee. I'm thinking 'abeyance', in this sense, means "suspended". The problem was--repeatedly---that the site would force me to resign in, when I was actually working on the site, non stop, in the quick response box... But there's no warning nor explicit indication that your times is somehow "up" and it's about to negate one's being signed in...

WaywardPilgrim
December 29, 2011, 07:15 AM
To ALL: I'm wanting to share a few images from Bud's Guns and Tactical Life; also one from NutnFancy---but am not sure if it's OK. Not too sure what the "URL" is, related to images. I have these as jpg's which I've copied to show friends, and I always name the publication. Guess they'll cut 'em if I crossed some line. Meanwhile: Enjoy. [Note the first two are with alternate mags; 10+1 & 17+1 options]

The Bud's article (first two images) was one reason I bought this particular handgun. Tho't you all might like to see these images. With its awesome trigger and carry/range versatility, not to mention the great look of this gem among Rugers, how can ya not love it?!!

mtrmn
December 29, 2011, 10:01 PM
sweet looking gun

GreySmoke2
December 30, 2011, 01:39 AM
For those thinking about basement shooting...Don't forget ventilation! Airborne lead is almost as bad as being struck by it....

WaywardPilgrim
December 30, 2011, 11:07 AM
Tried to edit this post out. Just another site glitch that dumped another post I was working on. My reaction was off thread, but I was irritated. Site is forcing me to write---I don't know what.

Wish they had an "eject post" button. Wasting your interest, dammit.

Ghost Tracker
December 30, 2011, 11:17 AM
re: Airborne lead in confined spaces. Becoming increasingly restricted (by law) at commercial shooting ranges for good reason. Non-lead ammo is available to specifically address the issue. While that ammo is more expensive than conventional fodder, it may be less expensive than the ventilation alternative. Depends on the volume of practice. BTW, vent fans "can" have a sound suppression effect!

WaywardPilgrim
December 30, 2011, 11:19 AM
For all of you who responded with great ideas, helpful considerations, warnings, and such: I answered every one---two or three times---but they vanished for reasons that make no sense to me, yet.

To Mtrmn: Yes! This great little pistol IS a beauty! I like the safety features (cept for the mag safety) particularly, being a beginner. I think it's a perfect first gun; definitely more forgiving, relatively speaking. I LOVE the much raved about trigger!! the exceptional carry attributes; the surprising yet flex capacity mags. Even the round in chamber warning is great---even in the dark---for a new shooter who's more at risk of making dumb mistakes. Skilled shooters are commonly amazed that they shoot better with this compact, the first time, than all the guns they shoot all the time. May be overstating, but I've heard and seen the reactions in a bunch of posts and videos from the range saying similar things. It's also mentioned repeatedly that the compact is far less snappy than others comparable compacts. It's reflecting pretty on Ruger; no question about that.

The images I posted really do well by it.

Mike OTDP
December 30, 2011, 11:22 AM
WRT indoor practice, consider an air pistol. It might not be as sexy as NFA, but it's very convenient.

WaywardPilgrim
December 31, 2011, 01:39 AM
Very much appreciate the heads-up comments regarding lead dust. If I have to go to indoor ranges, I thinks I'll be taking premium dust masks in my range bag! Just hadn't tho't of lead dust. Glad you guys brought it up!

tallpaul
January 1, 2012, 04:56 PM
If you want practice that won't freak the neighbors out do not forget pellet n bb guns, they can help with site use and shooting. Also ruger has some .22lrs that are factory threaded and I paid less tha 300 for my last 22 silencer with the 200.00 tax... It was a used one but even new ya could get under 500 for the legal can....

Find out if it is legal where your cabin is and making a short range setup should be doable safely, talk to the neighbor, maybe they have a spot they ewould rather ya use .

WaywardPilgrim
January 8, 2012, 01:20 AM
I appreciate ideas along lines of AirSofts, and small caliber or BB/pellet type practice. I'm just so new to pistols that I feel very strongly that I need to become completely familiar with "real thing". Gotta know the bangs, the snaps, the recovery of sight---all those sort of things.

I've pretty much determined that a silencer is just too cost prohibitive. Obviously, I have yet to figure out where I can afford to go to put several hundred rounds through this remarkable little compact; I just know I need to make this thing a part of me, so to speak. I need to become so familiar with it that shooting with it is natural as throwing a ball or going dancing. I want to learn to shoot it both lethally--god forbid--or less than lethally if a situation allows for that. I certainly do not think that'll happen with a few hundred rounds---but that's the least I can do to begin to become accustomed to handling and firing it manageably. Competence will come with commitment and practice--and paying attention to those far more skilled than me.

I need to find a place where I can shoot the real thing so I become completely competent with it---even if I may not become tactically expert. I'm SO not used to guns that I promised myself that if ever I got one I'd work hard and spend as necessary, within what's possible, to have it become an extension of my arm---AND an extension of calm inner surety, free from any lack of familiarity. So, I'm just going to HAVE to find a gun club or someone with a REALLY rural canyon on their land ---well, we'll see.

Sure appreciate all the feed-back and smart suggestions.

My deepest desire would be to become so skilled with it that I won't ever be worried about NOT using it. Ya know what I mean? To feel competent enough that I can be calm in taking in the situation, not worrying whether I can handle it well;---second nature, if that's do-able. Hope that's not being too naive.

MasterSergeantA
January 9, 2012, 11:33 AM
Brings to mind a saying that I have heard over the years:

Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

If you enjoyed reading about "Silencers for local at home target practice?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!